Recruiter told not to hire WoW players

[squirrel]

Yeaaaaaahhhhh... I'm gonna need everyone on this thread to work late.

Winner winner, chicken dinner!

[Slyfeind]

Hrm, I'm of two mindsets. It seems to me that when companies need their employees to put in the extra mile, then something's gone horribly wrong and they're about to collapse. But then again, a lot of those companies are still around; consider EA. They've wrung their people for all they're worth, and they're one of the strongest electronic media companies in the world. Personally, when I put in those extra hours, it's because I love what I'm doing and I really want to be there. I've gone several months without seeing the sun because I'd rather be locked up in a dark theatre 16 hours a day.

[UnSub]

Why did this story gain so much traction? Is the gaming world so surprised that recruiters would err away from WoW players?

Because there are about 5 million non-Asian-based WoW players who don't like to hear they've been wasting their lives. Video games promote hand / eye coordination and are inherently valuable to play.

In completely unrelated news, in about 21 hours I will have spent 24 days posting on f13.net.

[pants]

It can depend on the industry too.  Some industries (big 4 accounting firms, I'm looking at you) do their annual budgets based on all peons being 45-50 hours/week billable.  Add in the non-billable adminny stuff you gotta do, and 50-60 hour work weeks are the norm.  They do churn through their staff pretty heavily, but they expect that, thus why they go crazy recruiting silly grads who don't know any better to replace all the older ones who have burnt out and quit.

Oh yeah, and when they say 'Welcome to the company, now we're gonna ship you halfway round the country for 6 months' - that aint a coincidence.  If youre in a strange city with none of your usual friends outside of work, well hey, you got nothing better to do than stay in the office til 9 every night, do ya?

[Triforcer]

http://timesonline.typepad.com/technology/2008/12/should-employer.html?OTC-widgets&ATTR=tolblogs

Times of London has it now.  Tale, hire a media person stat. 

[Fraeg]

No offense meant, but I question what you guys do in the real world. The stuff you're saying is highly naive. If you have a salaried job and don't work for the government, a non-profit, or an educational institution, you're not working 40 hours a week. I haven't put in less than 60 hours since I entered the workforce. If you have a real job, you don't take off at 5PM sharp. You're reachable on the phone, you don't take long vacations except for special occasions, and you don't use up all your sick days to play videogames, because they need you at work. You're not a nameless faceless cog in the engine, you're driving the car. It's as much control over your destiny as is possible before starting your own business-- and that's when the hours really start to pile up.

I'm sure that all sounds incredibly elitist, but seriously now-- a set number of hours per week for salaried employees? Dream world, buddy.

speaking of naive.

What you say holds true for yes, a great many jobs/careers.  But trying to apply what you have experienced in the workplace to the world at large is pure fail.

I haven't put in less than 60 hours since I entered the workforce.
Depends on what you are doing, in many areas, yes, this is the rule.  In many areas if you have never not worked 60+ you are either incapable of getting shit done in a timely manner or are simply being bled dry.

If you have a real job, you don't take off at 5PM sharp.
Dunno how you define *real*.  Real to me is a steady job/career where you make an amount of $$ that can support your lifestyle and then some while also stuffing away for retirement.  The amount of jobs where you can fairly easily set the time on which you leave, based on the time that you arrive to work is oh.. how about too fucking many to mention.  However, yes there certainly are many jobs where last minute shit comes up, a client calls, the DB is fuxxored, a subcontractor fucked up....etc.  To define jobs that don't contain these elements as *unreal* is again.. Fail.

You're reachable on the phone
With the exception of vacations and some weekends I 100% agree.

you don't use up all your sick days to play videogames,
guess i missed the part where people bragged about draining sick days to catass... but yeah.. we all take a mental health day off now and then.  If you don't ever do this.. you are missing out on one of the finer guilty pleasures in life... sucks to be you.

starting your own business-- and that's when the hours really Begin to pile up
Of course they do, and the sky is also still blue.

Again, to define a job as *real* based on your personal experiences in the workplace is..... Fail

It is a big world.. lots of things to do, some more demanding than others... some more rewarding than others.   And there are thousands and thousands of flavors to jobs.  You may have gotten vanilla, but others might be rocking mango passion fruit sorbet, and their job description might very well differ from yours.

[Special J]

No offense meant, but I question what you guys do in the real world. The stuff you're saying is highly naive. If you have a salaried job and don't work for the government, a non-profit, or an educational institution, you're not working 40 hours a week. I haven't put in less than 60 hours since I entered the workforce. If you have a real job, you don't take off at 5PM sharp. You're reachable on the phone, you don't take long vacations except for special occasions, and you don't use up all your sick days to play videogames, because they need you at work. You're not a nameless faceless cog in the engine, you're driving the car. It's as much control over your destiny as is possible before starting your own business-- and that's when the hours really start to pile up.

I'm sure that all sounds incredibly elitist, but seriously now-- a set number of hours per week for salaried employees? Dream world, buddy.

What qualifies as a 'long' vacation?  I've been with my employers for 12 years and sure plan on taking all the vacation time that I earned; It's part of my compensation.  I do everything I'm asked, but I don't work for free.  You can if you like, but it doesn't make your job any more a 'real job'.

[schild]

Sam hasn't yet revealed the industry in which he resides, I assume though, from his posts, that it's slavery. And he isn't upper management. Of course, I'm just guessing here.

[Tale]

http://timesonline.typepad.com/technology/2008/12/should-employer.html?OTC-widgets&ATTR=tolblogs

Times of London has it now.  Tale, hire a media person stat. 

There's a journalist in my PMs here, trying to get an exclusive interview with me and the recruiter. Entschuldigung, guter Herr, I didn't get time to respond before your "did you get my message" deadline panic. Also, I'm not calling the recruiter about this ... yet. Also, I'm a journalist too.

[DraconianOne]

No offense meant, but I question what you guys do in the real world. The stuff you're saying is highly naive. If you have a salaried job and don't work for the government, a non-profit, or an educational institution, you're not working 40 hours a week. I haven't put in less than 60 hours since I entered the workforce. If you have a real job, you don't take off at 5PM sharp. You're reachable on the phone, you don't take long vacations except for special occasions, and you don't use up all your sick days to play videogames, because they need you at work. You're not a nameless faceless cog in the engine, you're driving the car.

I'm sure that all sounds incredibly elitist, but seriously now-- a set number of hours per week for salaried employees? Dream world, buddy.

I laugh at your misplaced priorities.

It's as much control over your destiny as is possible before starting your own business-- and that's when the hours really start to pile up.

I laugh at this too. 

[Triforcer]

I doubt you'll get the recruiter to identify himself or say anything on the record.  That's the sort of thing a company lawyer would leap over his desk and grab him by the neck to keep him from doing.  Under current law, it wouldn't necessarily lead to lawsuits, but the way lawyers think is "why chance anything?"

[vex]

This, if nothing else, has been an excellent lesson in how "news" stories are formed. 

Oh, and I wouldn't have hired me in my heavy EQ days nor would I think ever think to talk about gaming in a job interview.

[Numtini]

The stuff you're saying is highly naive. If you have a salaried job and don't work for the government, a non-profit, or an educational institution, you're not working 40 hours a week. I haven't put in less than 60 hours since I entered the workforce.

I'd say you're the one who is naive and that someone has been taking advantage of it to exploit you and you're going forward and doing the same to others. Lots of us live very fulfilled lives and work reasonable hours. I've done so while working for the government, while working for a startup, and while working for a giant multinational corporation. Yes, there are times I've had to work extra hours. There are nights where I watched people leave at the end of the day and watched them come back in the following morning. But those were exceptions and exactly what "exempt" is supposed to be about. It's not a license to run a slave plantation.

[chargerrich]

I completely get your point. I know some people who have let the game become an addiction to the detement of their personal, home and work life.

That being said, some of us like myself imposed balance and self discipline. I could easily play 40 hours a week but I dont. I have played and loved the game since retail launch (sans my ill fated attempt to play WAR). I have also had a few "wasted wow weekends" where I look back Sunday evening and say WTF! That motivates me to not extend the weekend into a week, month or life.

In fact, for me personally the game has motivated me to go back and get my Masters. So I take night classes 4 nights a week and play on most weekends. And aside from some lunch time browsing, I do work at work... in fact my employer might reap the benefit of my Masters degree that may well be acquired in no small part BECAUSE of WoW! 

You're pretty full of shit. You, like, can have a problem if you choose to, but you like, chose not to. You know what it is to be a heroinist, because you've been high on pot a couple of times. That's the pretty much the opposite of having a problem. Truth is that you don't understand the nature of the word problem at all, given your lecturing.

You completely missed the point. Some people have addictive personalities, others do not. I can go into a bar and have a few drinks but am not an altoholic. Anything in excess will be bad, most things in moderation are ok.

It is as simple as that, but you can look for something to flame if you so choose, I was just making an observation on myself. Generally a "lecture" would entail me telling SOMEONE ELSE that THEY are right or wrong.

[DraconianOne]

Some people have addictive personalities, others do not.

If only it were so easy to explain.

[DraconianOne]

This, if nothing else, has been an excellent lesson in how "news" stories are formed. 

This story from the end of October about a mountain marathon being cancelled made national headlines for a weekend in the UK.  It made me realise that the BBC is going the way of Fox News and that none of the papers couldn't be bothered to sort out facts if the facts turned out to be far less interesting than the sensationalist headlines would suggest.  Same thing here - sensationalist headline ftw.

(My favourite headline was in the Times : "Just inches away from turning the mountains into a morgue")

[UnSub]

I can go into a bar and have a few drinks but am not an altoholic.

Meanwhile, I only play my main but drink a bottle of gin each play session. 

[Nevermore]

We made a meme!

BTW, it just jumped to more "mainstream" media. Granted, the games blog, but it's the Guardian nonetheless.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/dec/17/pc-games

Quick tale, you need to put up the YouTube video.

Schild, I AM sorry if the traffic hurt. :(

I don't think they condensed the original post down enough.  Here, let me try:

"World of Warcraft players... are often not great."

 

[Tarami]

You completely missed the point. Some people have addictive personalities, others do not. I can go into a bar and have a few drinks but am not an altoholic. Anything in excess will be bad, most things in moderation are ok.

It is as simple as that, but you can look for something to flame if you so choose, I was just making an observation on myself. Generally a "lecture" would entail me telling SOMEONE ELSE that THEY are right or wrong.

Like there are criminals and innocent? Some people just have it in them. It has nothing to do with surrounding factors, it's just your lack of character.

That being said, some of us like myself imposed balance and self discipline.

Totally not judgemental. You know, I really don't care, but it's sad to see someone with his head so far up his own ass.

[schild]

Cory Doctorow of Boing Boing asks this pertinent question:

Any news story in mainstream media or not, that starts with that, should result in the journalist being dragged into the street, tarred, and feathered. Not necessarily in that order. Yow. The viral spread of this shit is more interesting than the story itself.

[Slayerik]

No offense meant, but I question what you guys do in the real world. The stuff you're saying is highly naive. If you have a salaried job and don't work for the government, a non-profit, or an educational institution, you're not working 40 hours a week. I haven't put in less than 60 hours since I entered the workforce. If you have a real job, you don't take off at 5PM sharp. You're reachable on the phone, you don't take long vacations except for special occasions, and you don't use up all your sick days to play videogames, because they need you at work. You're not a nameless faceless cog in the engine, you're driving the car.

I'm sure that all sounds incredibly elitist, but seriously now-- a set number of hours per week for salaried employees? Dream world, buddy.

I laugh at your misplaced priorities.

It's as much control over your destiny as is possible before starting your own business-- and that's when the hours really start to pile up.

I laugh at this too. 

Wow, I'm so glad I'm not living the this 'real world'. Instead, I'm overpaid to do desktop support at a University Hospital. I work 40 hours a week, don't want or get overtime, and fuck off all day on f13 and a couple other sites... I can't imagine having a 'real' job. Poor 'real' job having bastards.

Back to looking for mining nodes on my laptop!!

[Demonix]

No offense meant, but I question what you guys do in the real world. The stuff you're saying is highly naive. If you have a salaried job and don't work for the government, a non-profit, or an educational institution, you're not working 40 hours a week. I haven't put in less than 60 hours since I entered the workforce. If you have a real job, you don't take off at 5PM sharp. You're reachable on the phone, you don't take long vacations except for special occasions, and you don't use up all your sick days to play videogames, because they need you at work. You're not a nameless faceless cog in the engine, you're driving the car. It's as much control over your destiny as is possible before starting your own business-- and that's when the hours really start to pile up.

I'm sure that all sounds incredibly elitist, but seriously now-- a set number of hours per week for salaried employees? Dream world, buddy.

Actually, yes.  I have worked private sector jobs in IT that were 40 hours a week.  Yes, there were times when there was overtime required, or weekend work, or what have you, but it occurred in bursts and was not a constant situation.

Honestly, if you are in a company where there is enough work to consistently put in 60 hours per week, someone is doing something wrong...there is obviously a need for more people. 

[Slyfeind]

Wow, the world is watching. We have a chance to change things. Company policy is at steak!

[Nevermore]

Ah hahaha!  Farked!

[sam, an eggplant]

That's about the response I expected. I still think you guys are wrong, but don't want to continue the derail. The real story here is how long it takes for the AP feed to pick up this breaking news. And credit it to the pope, via l'osservatore romano out of the vatican.

[Venkman]

Sam hasn't yet revealed the industry in which he resides, I assume though, from his posts, that it's slavery. And he isn't upper management. Of course, I'm just guessing here.

Or anything in IT, video games, or the medical profession, or probably consumer goods, the entertainment industry, or anything associated with the stock market. Global economy and commerce ftw.

Yes, there's plenty of jobs you work exactly 9 hours with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch. And there's plenty of jobs in which you can excel and get promoted purely on the merit of doing that job in that timeframe really really well.

However, if part of your team is in China or Europe, if your partners are on one coast and you on the other, if you have a management team of over achievers, or you're in a highly competitive space that can change with the market overnight or PR annoucements made during someone else's day, you have a job of intangibles, or if you don't have a desk job in police, fire, or in a hospital, chances are you're not just working the exact alotted hours assigned nor officially documented.

I'm actually surprised by the reaction in this thread. But that just shows the diversity, which itself is a good thing.

[Numtini]

Or anything in IT, video games, or the medical profession, or probably consumer goods, the entertainment industry, or anything associated with the stock market. Global economy and commerce ftw.

Or more accurately, any industry which has moved from a professional association to employer/employee model or has been created after the 1940s. Ie, those industries which have managed to carve out a defacto exemption from fair labor laws by exploiting the "exempt" status for people who very clearly are employees not partners, professionals, or supervisors.

[DraconianOne]

That's about the response I expected. I still think you guys are wrong, but don't want to continue the derail.

No, this derail is fun.  

What's wrong about being able to find a work/life balance?  Why is not being of the mindset that you Live To Work and not Work To Live wrong? Enquiring minds want to know.

[Triforcer]

To borrow the best image ever from that Fark thread, you have to remember that the non-MMO world has the following mental image of MMO players:

[schild]

To borrow the best image ever from that Fark thread, you have to remember that the non-MMO world has the following mental image of MMO players:

You just posted a 6 year old fark meme. Grats.

[Venkman]

That's about the response I expected. I still think you guys are wrong, but don't want to continue the derail.

No, this derail is fun.  

What's wrong about being able to find a work/life balance?  Why is not being of the mindset that you Live To Work and not Work To Live wrong? Enquiring minds want to know.

For me: nothing is wrong with this. I often joke that I don't really "go home" at the end of the day. It's more that I change venues, with a three hour break for family time. But that has nothing to do with being fundamentally right or wrong about it. There's no black and white here.

[Nevermore]

You just posted a 6 year old fark meme. Grats.

[sam, an eggplant]

Aha! Wise opponent. My full name is Samir al-Tafouaj, and my favorite food is camel meatballs braised in the blood of christian babes with baba gnanouj (eggplant dip, you american devils would say) and flatbread made from the ground bones of your white pigswine children. Delicious! And so I have named myself.

I manage a white slavery outfit, with roughly eight Hands of the Sword below me, praise to His name. Aieeo! We primarily operate out of depressed eastern europe and the former USSR, trafficking in thin willowy blondes and flame heads for my blessed masters in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, and the UAE. I work hard for little wages, but will be rewarded in heaven with 77 blonde virgins. Freedom from my four brown wives, ptui! Willowy clean blondes of my very own! Al-akbar! Ayiyiyiyiyi!

On a different note, old or not, that's an awesome picture.

[bhodi]

What do I do in my spare time?

I make furniture out of human bones.

What? Where are you going?

[Valmorian]

You just posted a 6 year old fark meme. Grats.

Wow I had never seen that before.. made me laugh.