Patches 1.1a-d Have Arrived

[Mrbloodworth]

Wouldn't it be simpler to just remove those levels? and if so, doesn't that make 40 the new 1, and put it all right back to square one.

I agree.  Remove the pve levels and just have reknown be the only leveling in the game.  Lots of content for everyone that way. 

Truth: NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

Renown are just levels by a different name.

[Bismallah]

Renown are just levels by a different name.

And don't forget, most of the CASUAL players are already RR50+ so they have burned through almost 3/4 of their Renown in less then 4 months. That's where you need to start asking "then what?".

So in the grand scheme of things your casual gamers will probably have blown through all the content that their populations can see in less then 6 months, oh and I bet we see iteration 8 of server mergers within the next few weeks.

[Nebu]

That's where you need to start asking "then what?".

Add more reknown ranks.  Worked for DAoC when they added RR 11 and 12.  Titles made it something to play toward and the additional RR gave some bonuses and abilities already available.  The RR system in DAoC was a pretty well designed system... shame they didn't learn from it.

[ghost]

Not sure why people keep rehashing this.  There is very little about this game that isn't complete shite.  The combat system sucks, the world is bland and boring and then you tack on the the harebrained idiocy of having to have all four tiers fairly populated to make it work.  Levels of any sort work fine in other games, they just don't get it here for some reason.  And then they decide to make the game "better" by adding other fucking experience bars.  It boggles the mind.  It just seems like a bunch of new guys got ahold of some money to put together a game and hired a bunch of programmers without fully thinking things through before they started. 

[Mrbloodworth]

I didn't see anything wrong with its combat system, or PvP for that matter. I quite enjoyed it.

[Bandit]

Not sure why people keep rehashing this.  There is very little about this game that isn't complete shite.  The combat system sucks, the world is bland and boring and then you tack on the the harebrained idiocy of having to have all four tiers fairly populated to make it work.  Levels of any sort work fine in other games, they just don't get it here for some reason.  And then they decide to make the game "better" by adding other fucking experience bars.  It boggles the mind.  It just seems like a bunch of new guys got ahold of some money to put together a game and hired a bunch of programmers without fully thinking things through before they started. 

The hate is strong with you......

Funny thing is, the other "fucking experience bar" is actually making the game better, people are out in PvP lakes much more.  Goal accomplished.  Not that they don't have a long way to go, but it is improving.

[Nebu]

I didn't see anything wrong with its combat system, or PvP for that matter. I quite enjoyed it.

Class balance was an issue at release.  Too much CC with too few counters.  CC immunity timers too short or nonexistent.  Ability to 1 or 2 shot players (bad when accompanied by crippling lag). Several game breaking ways to manipulate lag.  Shall I go on?

[Mrbloodworth]

I didn't see anything wrong with its combat system, or PvP for that matter. I quite enjoyed it.

Class balance was an issue at release.  Too much CC with too few counters.  CC immunity timers too short or nonexistent.  Ability to 1 or 2 shot players (bad when accompanied by crippling lag). Several game breaking ways to manipulate lag.  Shall I go on?

To me, that's normal stuff, i didn't mind it so much most launches require live time to sort out the reality of how the system works out. Bright wizards were out of control however, lol.

[Nebu]

To me, that's normal stuff...

This is my biggest complaint with MMO consumers.  They set the bar too low and are rewarded with a product that meets these low expectations. 

[Mrbloodworth]

To me, that's normal stuff...

This is my biggest complaint with MMO consumers.  They set the bar too low and are rewarded with a product that meets these low expectations. 

Its not that i had low expectations, its just simply i understand that such things need a live trial by fire. The combat as a whole was quite good. Much more actiony than many others IMO. PvP was also quite enjoyable. And it took them what, maybe a month of watching, gathering info from live to correct some of those issues?

Things that would fall into my "low expectations" that of course are inexcusable (and will send me away quick) are: Item linking and other "Standard" MMO tools. Shitty netcode, broken art all over the place, half assed systems, Missing advertised features, server lag, crappy performance... ETC...

Game/class balance, in a PvP game? That shit NEEDS a live trial by fire.

[Nebu]

Game/class balance, in a PvP game? That shit NEEDS a live trial by fire.

I think beta is a great forum for this.  Beta... not just for bug reporting and free play time. 

[Mrbloodworth]

Game/class balance, in a PvP game? That shit NEEDS a live trial by fire.

I think beta is a great forum for this.  Beta... not just for bug reporting. 

I dunno, beta itself attracts the wrong people. Most are there for the trial, the rest probably already think the devs can do no wrong. There is also the size issue, 1k (beta) or a full 200k (live). I just do not think in anyway shape or form when it comes to MMO's, beta is a cure all.

I do nominally, if i didn't already do the beta, jump on the new MMO's, play them for a bit, then give them time.... I have never, ever played a MMO that had everything worked out in terms of balance of combat at launch.

I think its a myth, and i do not think any amount of beta will fix it. Its just not like it was, when beta was an honor, and people cared to give feedback and do bug reports. Its just not the same anymore man.'

PS: the window dragging, inexcusable category, that could have been found in beta.

[ghost]

The combat as a whole was quite good. Much more actiony than many others IMO. PvP was also quite enjoyable.

Really, you enjoy slow, buggy game combat?  Why?

Seriously, if you enjoy it great, but I think it is putrid and is still putrid after multiple patches.

[HaemishM]

Wouldn't it be simpler to just remove those levels? and if so, doesn't that make 40 the new 1, and put it all right back to square one.

I agree.  Remove the pve levels and just have reknown be the only leveling in the game.  Lots of content for everyone that way. 

Truth: NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

Which is why I talked about things that COULD happen without serious rewrites and a radical departure in philosophy as opposed to what should have really been considered at the very initial design stage.

[Mrbloodworth]

The combat as a whole was quite good. Much more actiony than many others IMO. PvP was also quite enjoyable.

Really, you enjoy slow, buggy game combat?  Why?

Seriously, if you enjoy it great, but I think it is putrid and is still putrid after multiple patches.

Yes yes yes. You dislike the game. k.

The combat was not slow. Like i said, more actiony than most others.

[Threash]

Renown are just levels by a different name.

And don't forget, most of the CASUAL players are already RR50+ so they have burned through almost 3/4 of their Renown in less then 4 months. That's where you need to start asking "then what?".

Uh, no? im slightly above casual, i play almost every day but was gone for a week or two on vacation.  I just hit 34 last night.  Casuals are barely hitting tier 4 now, maybe in their mid 20s rr.

[HaemishM]

To me, that's normal stuff...

This is my biggest complaint with MMO consumers.  They set the bar too low and are rewarded with a product that meets these low expectations. 

Its not that i had low expectations, its just simply i understand that such things need a live trial by fire.

That's one of the things betas are supposed to be for.

[Bismallah]

The combat as a whole was quite good. Much more actiony than many others IMO. PvP was also quite enjoyable.

Really, you enjoy slow, buggy game combat?  Why?

Seriously, if you enjoy it great, but I think it is putrid and is still putrid after multiple patches.

Yes yes yes. You dislike the game. k.

The combat was not slow. Like i said, more actiony than most others.

Well, since you are just now 34 I'll cut you slack. Be prepared to enjoy the disarm, disrupt, root, fetch/magnet show you'll be attending soon. I was 38 two months ago and I considered myself above casual, just now hitting Tier 4 is hardly casual that's "I don't play for weeks on end"... oh wait... yeah.

[Threash]

I didn't say i don't play for weeks on end, i said i play every night except for the two i was on vacation.  Thats hardly casual.

[Mrbloodworth]

Wrong person to quote there.

[ghost]

Wrong person to quote there.

Okay, more "actiony" than LOTRO or not, in your opinion?  Just curious.

[Gurney]

To me, that's normal stuff...

This is my biggest complaint with MMO consumers.  They set the bar too low and are rewarded with a product that meets these low expectations. 

Its not that i had low expectations, its just simply i understand that such things need a live trial by fire.

That's one of the things betas are supposed to be for.

Exposing certain things to a trial by fire is exactly the wrong thing.  You should have a solid bedrock of design before you initiate the trial by fire.  Certain things should be stress tested.  Some other things should be correct.    There may be certain kinds of testing to expose what is correct but that is not generally done by stressing it.

There are a number of no-fail type implementations that are completely designed and tested with this idea in mind.  In fact a "trial by fire" is a bad way to insure a no-fail system.  Fire is inconsistent and is not sufficient to prove that something cannot fail (ie. that failures are accounted for in an acceptable manner).  Trial by fire is not comprehensive nor is it the most stringent form of testing.  Its just a stress test no more no less.


Anyway Mythic did not correctly test RvR mechanics even someone who has never done testing and look back in hindsight can see that.  Has nothing to do with stress or trial by fire.  Many of the current problems could definitely have been exposed and were not, or they were exposed and ignored according to some Beta Testers.


My view on this has nothing to do with expectations.   I simply know they could have done better, further as a professional software developer myself I also know that they SHOULD have done better.  Not checking the contingencies is just negligent design.  Plain and simple.

[HaemishM]

In fact a "trial by fire" is a bad way to insure a no-fail system.  Fire is inconsistent and is not sufficient to prove that something cannot fail (ie. that failures are accounted for in an acceptable manner). 

It's an MMOG. Track records indicate that the list of things which don't fail is very very small.

[waylander]

I dunno, RVR has picked up since the loot stuff went into the game. The bad thing is I spend 70% of my time being disabled, knocked down, knocked back, or dazed. Crowd control in this game is simply out of control.

I did notice that the last NPD sales charts over recent weeks didn't have Warhammer anywhere in the mix, so its going to be interesting to see their reaction when the 3 and 6 month prepay's are gone. With little new blood coming in, bad word of mouth on the internet, and a shrinking player base things can still get dicey over the next few months.

I'd like to see the game get turned around, but I still think its going to get worse (population wise) before it gets any better.

[rk47]

Well half of their current server is already 'hidden' from the normal server selection menu, you have to click 'More' to display.
It'll probably go away soon enough. I don't know why people want to stay in a low pop server unless they've un-subbed and not give a damn anymore after the first month is up. This puts mythic in a dilemma of shutting down servers with peak hour pop below 100.

[Zzulo]

That's why they should have merged the servers instead.

[Bismallah]

The bad thing is I spend 70% of my time being disabled, knocked down, knocked back, or dazed. Crowd control in this game is simply out of control.

I did notice that the last NPD sales charts over recent weeks didn't have Warhammer anywhere in the mix, so its going to be interesting to see their reaction when the 3 and 6 month prepay's are gone. With little new blood coming in, bad word of mouth on the internet, and a shrinking player base things can still get dicey over the next few months.

I'd like to see the game get turned around, but I still think its going to get worse (population wise) before it gets any better.

It's amazing that with WAR if it isn't one thing, it's another. Too much CC was down on my list, way down actually, but it's coming up now that most folks are getting into T4. Oh and btw, they still have those 5 collector's editions behind the counter at my local Game Stop if anyone still wants them.

Oh don't worry Zzulo, mergers will probably come soon (as they shut down those dead servers for good). We might even see another iteration of closures. There are more servers now that used to be destination servers which have been dying off slowly and need to be addressed sooner rather then later.

Edit: if you all post on the VN boards, this troll is losing her mind (We think its a her, she has kids too, young ones) http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/109800490/p2/?42

Fanboi at its finest... she starts the thread about WARs pop and slowly descends into madness debating WoWs numbers. Why do people do this?

[Modern Angel]

Fanboi at its finest... she starts the thread about WARs pop and slowly descends into madness debating WoWs numbers. Why do people do this?

Because the slowly dwindling old school MMO player wants a lifestyle, not a game. If WoW does nothing else, I hope the legacy is a slow drowning out of those voices. In, oh... six years or so.

[GoodIdea]

Tier 3 killed this game for me.  I enjoyed the first two tiers.  Actually I enjoyed the game up until rank 18.

This.

I leveled 3 Order characters to 20 on an Order underpop server. I just couldn't make myself trudge any further into T3.

PQ's were ghost towns.

Scenarios were either totally wtfpwn Destro or get totally wtfpwned by Destro.

Order complained that Destro were:
1. People with no life living in parents' basements.
2. More organized than Order.
3. To chickenshit to defend keeps.

So I decided to roll Destro on a server with an overpop of Destro.

PQ's were ghost towns.

Scenarios were either totally wtfpwn Order or get totally wtfpwned by Order.

Destro complained that Order were:
1. People with no life living in parents' basements.
2. More organized than Destro.
3. To chickenshit to defend keeps.

 

That's the case with every single PVP game I've ever played. People like to bitch and people hate to lose. You just find a good guild so you don't have to deal with all the lame excuses people make.


<QUOTE>And don't forget, most of the CASUAL players are already RR50+ so they have burned through almost 3/4 of their Renown in less then 4 months. That's where you need to start asking "then what?".

So in the grand scheme of things your casual gamers will probably have blown through all the content that their populations can see in less then 6 months, oh and I bet we see iteration 8 of server mergers within the next few weeks.</QUOTE>

Haha, that's not accurate. Most players are still in RR 20-39. Casuals are still in the 20s. The people who play most nights for 2-5 hours have RR 40-50. Crazy people without jobs who play 8 hours a day are RR 60. There is a long way to go for most of us to RR 80.

Well, since you are just now 34 I'll cut you slack. Be prepared to enjoy the disarm, disrupt, root, fetch/magnet show you'll be attending soon. I was 38 two months ago and I considered myself above casual, just now hitting Tier 4 is hardly casual that's "I don't play for weeks on end"... oh wait... yeah.

People piss and moan about the CC, but unless you are an Order melee DPS it isn't that bad. If your healers are smart, magnet shouldn't even be a factor most times and it can be countered with many abilities. Some of the AE disables are a bit out of control (and will be nerfed soon most likely), but even they can be countered by simply spreading out. It's not that hard.

[Bismallah]

"Most players are still in RR 20-39. Casuals are still in the 20s."

Yeah, you're sorely mistaken there. Casual's ALTS are in the RR20s. You can get R20/RR20 in a long weekend. The game has been out for over 3 months and if you are still RR 20 you have barely played at all, let alone be considered casual. I am talking less then 5 hours a week at that pace.

Hell, ask the other players here on the forums. I am above casual, somewhat a power gamer, and I was R38RR21 within 3 weeks of release and I was behind a good half dozen folks in my guild alone. Fuck, I could get in the mid teens both R/RR during one sitting on the weekends, heh.

"People piss and moan about the CC, but unless you are an Order melee DPS it isn't that bad."

Now I know you are just being an idiot. Without even looking I bet there are more CC based spells then there are healing spells in this game... sigh

[Hindenburg]

Hell, ask the other players here on the forums.

You are aware that nearly everyone here quit the game after the second month? Heck, several didn't go past the first.

Also, most people simply found the game too fucking boring at T3.

[Bismallah]

Yeah Itto I do realize that, and were you at least RR20 by the time you quit?

[Hindenburg]

10 alts above 10 and under 16. None above 16.
I never got past T2.
Started playing 2 weeks after the game was out. Still have a free account I can use.

[Der Helm]

Did Schild take away the "quote" button from the new guys ? 

[Bismallah]

Did Schild take away the "quote" button from the new guys ? 

No, I was being lazy.