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[gryeyes]

Ir wrong hear me speak of completely irrelevant topics to mask my blatant stupid! I got pictures!

So true the use of long range artillery preemptively on indigenous populations that possess natural resources we want to exploit is so very common. In fact its so common that any method other than that to accomplish the same ends is completely unbelievable! Even in a fictional setting! Good call captain dipshit! Sorry my dim witted friend we don't carpet bomb,Nuke or otherwise slaughter those with things we want to possess (Well we do, but not in that manner). Why we don't do this is obvious for even the most fucking retarded amongst us (expensive,unnecessary,violates all sorts of pesky rules,destroys the resources we want in the first place,destroys the indigenous population we need to harvest said resources). In fact we rarely do this even in open warfare, let alone in incidents of rat fucking the third world. And sure as fuck don't do this in any sort of "modern" war.

You still don't seem to be grasping the concept of limitations placed on military not stemming from technological capability. Or even more mysteriously not being able to conceive of why the heroes instantly being obliterated would kinda put a dent in the story. This of course ignores the complete idiocy of why "itz not believablez!?!".

You haven't yet referenced stardestroyer forums in your ode to stupid wtf man?


PS. Having a technologically inferior military doesn't imply one is wielding a sword. 

[Slayerik]

So this chick I'm seeing says this is based off some kids-esque cartoon series she loves....? She is pretty geeked about it.

Personally, I don't think it looks horrible, and that's good for me cause I'll be seeing it in the theaters with her. I am one of those 'suspension of disbelief' kinda guys though. I try not to pick apart movies unless they really deserve it.

[Der Helm]

I think someone is is arguing that the story of this movie won't explain all the cool stuff the director/producer/storywriter decided to put in because it looks cool. He also mocks this.

It also seems to me that someone else is arguing for the sake of argument, but I am not sure what his point is.

Is this politics seeping into another subforum again or is this still fallout from the tanks vs mech thread ? I missed most of that thread. And I still miss it.

[Merusk]

So this chick I'm seeing says this is based off some kids-esque cartoon series she loves....? She is pretty geeked about it.

Wrong Avatar.  She's thinking of Avatar: The Last Air Bender which is being filmed under the same name as the cartoon.  This one is the Cameron Sci-Fi movie that's supposed to have some MMO tie-in that we still haven't heard about.   You might want to inform her of this before she flips out upon seeing blue furries instead of Quasi-Asian teenagers.

 

Is this politics seeping into another subforum again or is this still fallout from the tanks vs mech thread ? I missed most of that thread. And I still miss it.

Tank vs Mech nerdfight... which is pretty much what I was hoping for when I started stirring the pot.

[LK]

I think someone is is arguing that the story of this movie won't explain all the cool stuff the director/producer/storywriter decided to put in because it looks cool. He also mocks this.

I believe I read an entire article about James Cameron where this was the case. Explaining away details because what mattered more was impressing the visual WOW rather than solving the logical HUH?

[Der Helm]

impressing the visual WOW rather than solving the logical HUH?

That is what I took away from Titanic.

[Merusk]

Visual effects and boobs = $$$.  Thinking, storytelling and logic = Oscar/ Art film.  Sometimes you can get both, but not often.

[gryeyes]

Tank vs Mech nerdfight... which is pretty much what I was hoping for when I started stirring the pot.

So THATS why you posted, you sly dog you.

[Ratman_tf]

Is this politics seeping into another subforum again or is this still fallout from the tanks vs mech thread ? I missed most of that thread. And I still miss it.

It seems to be an unholy amalgam of both, which threatens to devour our souls.

[Ratman_tf]

That's a light artillery piece from WW2 and has a range of up to seven miles. All you really need in order to fire it accurately are a high quality map and good math skills. Go ahead and explain to me again how, when the shit hits the fan, sending in guys in mech suits to get in swordfights isn't fucking idiotic. Bear in mind that hyperbole about nuclear weapons and carpet bombing the planet won't be tolerated.

You moron. The alien dudes will just catch the artillery shells in their vine nets. Problem solved!

[ahoythematey]

You moron. The alien dudes will just catch the artillery shells in their vine nets. Problem solved!

For some reason I read that as, "gine nets," and thought something totally different.

Anyways...Avatar.  Heh.  Maybe it'd be better if they were 'gine nets.

[Velorath]

what happened to the Avatar MMO?

To my knowledge there have never been plans for one.  There is a single player game coming out around the same time as the movie though.  It uses 3D effects similar to the movie, which of course very few people are going to be able to experience outside of press events since it requires a 3D capable TV.

[WindupAtheist]

So true the use of long range artillery preemptively on indigenous populations that possess natural resources we want to exploit is so very common.

Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not

Sorry my dim witted friend we don't carpet bomb,Nuke or otherwise slaughter those with things we want to possess (Well we do, but not in that manner).

You slobbering fucking dipshit, you still don't understand, do you? We're not talking about the difference between conventional weapons and blowing up the planet. We're talking about the difference between conventional weapons that can be fired from a safe distance, and conventional weapons that require you to walk up to close-quarters so that you can be killed by a bow and arrow.

Why we don't do this is obvious for even the most fucking retarded amongst us

This is one of those times where the fact that you don't fucking know anything at all forces me to SirBruce the shit out of a thread. I mean I don't want to because it's generally frowned upon around here, but you consistently pack so much failure into even small amounts of text.

(expensive,unnecessary,

Achieving your goals through long-range fire is far simpler and less expensive than engaging in messy close-quarters combat. Every military in the world prefers the former to the latter given any choice at all.

violates all sorts of pesky rules,

Having rules of engagement which permit attacks by mechs and helicopters but forbid the use of any long-range weapons would definitely put these guys at Stormtrooper levels of stupidity. (These same rules must also dictate that helicopters can only attack from low altitude where they're vulnerable to native weapons and dragons popping up from the foliage, or else they alone would moot everything else we've seen.) I also have to laugh at the idea that any military would scorn the brutality of light artillery and take up bloody hand-to-hand combat instead. It's like putting aside your revolver as being too violent so you can kill a guy with your machete.

destroys the resources we want in the first place,

You know, minerals are usually underground. Besides which you can just air-burst your shells and kill everyone you need to without even making craters.

destroys the indigenous population we need to harvest said resources)

Wait, so now your politically constrained space marines who can't even get away with using light artillery are going to go in, subjugate the natives in brutal close-quarters fighting, and fucking enslave them? Also, are you really under the impression that even a small howitzer is somehow a weapon of overwhelming destruction? That gun I linked a picture of has a smaller caliber than the main guns of most tanks.

Let me state that again, since your stupid ass seems to be laboring under the impression that even light artillery is somehow a WMD of overwhelming brutality that no one would ever dare use: That howitzer that can kill you from miles away has a smaller caliber than the main gun of most modern tanks.

In fact we rarely do this even in open warfare, let alone in incidents of rat fucking the third world. And sure as fuck don't do this in any sort of "modern" war.

Entire Iraqi tank units were erased from the map by American aircraft. The British were perfectly happy to use cannon and machine guns to kill many times their number in Zulus or whatever. You do not know what you are talking about. At all. This is exactly how almost everyone fights.

You still don't seem to be grasping the concept of limitations placed on military not stemming from technological capability.

And you, as usual, are shockingly fucking ignorant in everything you say.

[Abagadro]

So true the use of long range artillery preemptively on indigenous populations that possess natural resources we want to exploit is so very common.

Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not

Sorry my dim witted friend we don't carpet bomb,Nuke or otherwise slaughter those with things we want to possess (Well we do, but not in that manner).

You slobbering fucking dipshit, you still don't understand, do you? We're not talking about the difference between conventional weapons and blowing up the planet. We're talking about the difference between conventional weapons that can be fired from a safe distance, and conventional weapons that require you to walk up to close-quarters so that you can be killed by a bow and arrow.

Why we don't do this is obvious for even the most fucking retarded amongst us

This is one of those times where the fact that you don't fucking know anything at all forces me to SirBruce the shit out of a thread. I mean I don't want to because it's generally frowned upon around here, but you consistently pack so much failure into even small amounts of text.

(expensive,unnecessary,

Achieving your goals through long-range fire is far simpler and less expensive than engaging in messy close-quarters combat. Every military in the world prefers the former to the latter given any choice at all.

violates all sorts of pesky rules,

Having rules of engagement which permit attacks by mechs and helicopters but forbid the use of any long-range weapons would definitely put these guys at Stormtrooper levels of stupidity. (These same rules must also dictate that helicopters can only attack from low altitude where they're vulnerable to native weapons and dragons popping up from the foliage, or else they alone would moot everything else we've seen.) I also have to laugh at the idea that any military would scorn the brutality of light artillery and take up bloody hand-to-hand combat instead. It's like putting aside your revolver as being too violent so you can kill a guy with your machete.

destroys the resources we want in the first place,

You know, minerals are usually underground. Besides which you can just air-burst your shells and kill everyone you need to without even making craters.

destroys the indigenous population we need to harvest said resources)

Wait, so now your politically constrained space marines who can't even get away with using light artillery are going to go in, subjugate the natives in brutal close-quarters fighting, and fucking enslave them? Also, are you really under the impression that even a small howitzer is somehow a weapon of overwhelming destruction? That gun I linked a picture of has a smaller caliber than the main guns of most tanks.

Let me state that again, since your stupid ass seems to be laboring under the impression that even light artillery is somehow a WMD of overwhelming brutality that no one would ever dare use: That howitzer that can kill you from miles away has a smaller caliber than the main gun of most modern tanks.

In fact we rarely do this even in open warfare, let alone in incidents of rat fucking the third world. And sure as fuck don't do this in any sort of "modern" war.

Entire Iraqi tank units were erased from the map by American aircraft. The British were perfectly happy to use cannon and machine guns to kill many times their number in Zulus or whatever. You do not know what you are talking about. At all. This is exactly how almost everyone fights.

You still don't seem to be grasping the concept of limitations placed on military not stemming from technological capability.

And you, as usual, are shockingly fucking ignorant in everything you say.

Psycho.

[WindupAtheist]

Blow it out your ass.

Edit: Everyone who pays attention knew I was insane ages ago.

[Sheepherder]

It's true, we did.

In the meantime, here's another prod to the anthill:

That evening before it happened, I went in to Pine Ridge and heard these things, and while I was there, soldiers started for where the Big Foots were. These made about five hundred soldiers that were there next morning. When I saw them starting I felt that something terrible was going to happen. That night I could hardly sleep at all. I walked around most of the night.

In the morning I went out after my horses, and while I was out I heard shooting off toward the east, and I knew from the sound that it must be wagon-guns (cannon) going off. The sounds went right through my body, and I felt that something terrible would happen.

When I reached camp with the horses, a man rode up to me and said: "Hey-hey-hey! The people that are coming are fired on! I know it!"

I saddled up my buckskin and put on my sacred shirt. It was one I had made to be worn by no one but myself. It had a spotted eagle outstretched on the back of it, and the daybreak star was on the left shoulder, because when facing south that shoulder is toward the east. Across the breast, from the left shoulder to the right hip, was the flaming rainbow, and there was another rainbow around the neck, like a necklace, with a star at the bottom. At each shoulder, elbow, and wrist was an eagle feather; and over the whole shirt were red streaks of lightning. You will see that this was from my great vision, and you will know how it protected me that day.

Link

[WindupAtheist]

Yeah, that. And all those battles in Africa where the casualties consisted of 12 Europeans wounded and 6,000 dead Africans or whatever. I mean there was more to colonialism than just dropping the hammer on everyone left and right, but when the natives got restless and tried to meet the colonists in battle the hammer got fucking dropped hard.

Or to put it another way, I don't have a problem with "The civilian government would never tolerate the space marines turning the space natives into giblets with artillery!" or whatever. I just laugh at the idea that turning them into giblets with infantry and armor would somehow be acceptable under those circumstances.

Edit again since I'm stuck flying cross-continent in WoW: I'm sure you can handwave up SOME contrived reason for the humans to have to fight in what would seem to be stupid fashion. I just doubt this movie will really bother, and I reject mechfucker's hooting that "nooobody has ever used powerful weapons on anyone ever looool".

[gryeyes]

Dude, you gotta edit in more crazy. Any chance for your shit posting getting published?

[WindupAtheist]

Oh no chuckles, you're way past the point of pretending to be the sane one. You're just crazy and stupid. I can't believe how long you spent loudly equating artillery with WMD for no comprehensible reason, and arguing shit about nuclear weapons that nobody ever said. In fact...

Reason you're a stupid piece of shit #782: That one little throw-away line of yours about the potential for magic "distortion" to mess up targeting and disallow long-range fire. It never occurred to you that all you really need to hit a fixed position is a fucking map, or that long-range weapons existed long before any electronic targeting to be distorted, or that even modern artillery is mostly targeted by observation and not fucking radar or whatever.

No, you just opened your fucking cakehole and let fly. The fact that "Mysterious radiation keeps us from locking on!" is a well-known anime excuse for why high-tech combat should involve stupid shit like robots swordfighting? TOTAL COINCIDENCE. More History Channel (Or even books!) and less cartoons. You fucking tool.

Yes, you're basically just getting a bunch of sublimated trollishness that hasn't had any Trammel or religion threads to escape into lately. No I don't care. Because you are a tool.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'm waiting for liberal use of caps lock next.

[NowhereMan]

Not enough charts and/or tables.

[VainEldritch]

  WUA

[gryeyes]

You're just crazy and stupid. I can't believe how long you spent loudly equating artillery with WMD for no comprehensible reason, and arguing shit about nuclear weapons that nobody ever said. In fact...

"So you fall back, then nuke their settlements from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

"Assuming there's no other circumstances keeping them from carpet bombing the planet. We could ask why America didn't just nuke Vietnam into glass."  .

Careful bro your crazy is making you block out posts! Of course whether its a nuclear weapon or some other form of high explosive fucking a wide area of shit up  is irrelevant to the entire "blow the shit up you want is bad idea" "slaughter the entire population not kosher" deals. Medication, take some.

It never occurred to you that all you really need to hit a fixed position is a fucking map, or that long-range weapons existed long before any electronic targeting to be distorted, or that even modern artillery is mostly targeted by observation and not fucking radar or whatever.

Oh it did occur to me my insanely stupid friend, hence the whole "against the rules" "destroys the ore". Yadda yadda, the whole electronic distortion aspect was more to explain why they would have to get so close when battle actually breaks out. The whole "bomb em from space durf durf" was curb stomped by a plethora of easily understood reasons. Pretty uninspired Ad nauseam defense, try harder.

TBH I enjoy bitch slapping you around religious threads more. I kinda feel bad, like im kicking a retard or something.  

[Sheepherder]

"destroys the ore"

Coal powered mechs with shields?

[Brogarn]

I kinda feel bad, like im kicking a retard or something.  

You have an overdeveloped sense of self. WUA is winning this argument hands down. Ya he's fucking nuts but he's also fucking right. You might consider putting the helmet back on because the damage you're doing to yourself banging your skull against the nearest hard target is coming through in your posts.

I mean seriously. Maps, motherfucker. And scouts. How hard is that to comprehend? Instead you go with handwavium or whatever the fuck you said. Just... damn, dude. 

[gryeyes]

I mean seriously. Maps, motherfucker. And scouts. How hard is that to comprehend? Instead you go with handwavium or whatever the fuck you said. Just... damn, dude. 

Yeah, you should stop posting. MAPS AND SCOUTS, well holy fuck balls that completely changes everything! I mean, when you have maps of the people you cant blow up for various reasons that changes everything. Thanks for your input, die.

[Samwise]

Yeah, you should stop posting. MAPS AND SCOUTS, well holy fuck balls that completely changes everything! I mean, when you have maps of the people you cant blow up for various reasons that changes everything. Thanks for your input, die.

I LOLed.  And it wasn't with you.   

[Lakov_Sanite]

The real losers in this battle are those of us reading it.

[Goreschach]

Yo guys, I'm really happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Star Trek vs. Star Wars is one of the best nerdfights of all time.

[stu]

I need this argument in stereo 3-D.

[Slayerik]

I like nerd fights and I can not lie
You other poasters can't deny
That when gryeyes walks in with stupid fuckin' case
And some handwavium in your face
WUA gets sprung
Coming with some nuking huff
Cause he fuckin' hates that mech stuff
Sweat soaked to the shirt he's wearin'
Line by line psycho shit he be swearin'
'Oh gryeyes I wanna fuckin' hit ya'
'Cause my shit is right like scriptcha'
'Other poasters tried to warn me'
'But that shit you spit'
'Make Me so Nerdraged'
'Ooh, fuck you WUA'
'Your war shit don't apply here'
'Fuck Arty, and nuking cause the blue people's shit be blue see?'

'My head is bruised from bangin
If these walls could talk they'd be laughin
You're whack, on crack, bout time for another smack'

'Sir Bruce likes your technique
You're a line by line fuckin' queen
Like Slay does in a Trammel fight
I'm gonna troll you day and night.'

[Broughden]

instead we will get CGI Ewoks.

[Broughden]

We're talking about the difference between conventional weapons that can be fired from a safe distance, and conventional weapons that require you to walk up to close-quarters so that you can be killed by a bow and arrow.

Because those long range conventional weapons are generally heavy (ie howitzers and artillery) and cant be moved quickly, which means that the enemy (who is a light footed unconventional warfare type) can sneak in from any direction and fuck up the crews manning them. So then you are stuck having to beef up security around them, which means you have now wasted manpower and resources in holding a piece of land to protect a piece of equipment with a long but limited range the enemy can simply move out of or move so close to that you cant shoot them.
Happens all the time in insurgent and unconventional warfare situations.

Achieving your goals through long-range fire is far simpler and less expensive than engaging in messy close-quarters combat. Every military in the world prefers the former to the latter given any choice at all.

Yes, but unfortunately you dont always get to dictate the battelfield, and if the enemy moves beyond the range of or into a spot your long range weapons cant get to (ie underground bunkers) then they become ineffective, and you are reduced to either a long term siege type battle or fighting them at closer terms. 

Having rules of engagement which permit attacks by mechs and helicopters but forbid the use of any long-range weapons would definitely put these guys at Stormtrooper levels of stupidity. (These same rules must also dictate that helicopters can only attack from low altitude where they're vulnerable to native weapons and dragons popping up from the foliage, or else they alone would moot everything else we've seen.)

Almost as stupid, as say Iraq where they came to town and immediately fired all the cops and former military forces? Or used vehicles with absolutely ZERO armor on them even though we had the technology to armor said vehicles? Or you mean like flying our own helicopters so low to the ground (because they have to in order to do their mission) that they can be shot down with 50 year old RPG-7's?

I like you WUA, but your lack of understanding into the tides of a war and all the fucked up shit that can happen to you is showing through. Or you are just arguing with this guy for arguments sake. Either way you have some pretty blatant misconceptions about easy shit is with cool toys to back you up.

[Samwise]

Because those long range conventional weapons are generally heavy (ie howitzers and artillery) and cant be moved quickly, which means that the enemy (who is a light footed unconventional warfare type) can sneak in from any direction and fuck up the crews manning them. So then you are stuck having to beef up security around them, which means you have now wasted manpower and resources in holding a piece of land to protect a piece of equipment with a long but limited range the enemy can simply move out of or move so close to that you cant shoot them.
Happens all the time in insurgent and unconventional warfare situations.

What channel is that show on?  It sounds interesting.

[Khaldun]

I'm not even sure what the two positions here are.

It's absolutely true that only a century or so ago, European forces (primarily British and French) had a more absolute military advantage over many non-Western societies than has probably ever existed in human history before or since. And they used it. Though the thing is, it was more unusual for them to use it to flat out slaughter African or Asian military forces on a battlefield in huge numbers. If there was slaughter, it was more depressingly of the kind that the Germans inflicted on the Herero people of southwest Africa: basically a "round them up and kill them all" thing.

After 1945, automatic weapons, explosives and logistical innovations in guerilla warfare have pretty much made it more difficult for societies with technologically advanced militaries to straightforwardly impose their will on others. In a straight up battle (Gulf War I), advanced militaries pretty much kill the shit out of even slightly less advanced militaries. But (on the other hand), if the US and Western Europe suddenly found that no coltan (used in cell phones) was coming out of Central Africa at all and they decided to go get it using military power, I think they'd find that all the advanced weaponry in the world wouldn't really help very much. Occupation is expensive, guerilla warfare is almost impossible to fully suppress and it can do a lot of damage to even the most advanced occupying force, and if you want something from the place you're occupying (like resources) you're either going to need local laborers or you going to need to import (at very high cost) foreign laborers.