Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Rendakor]

Tyrells, not Tullys.

[HaemishM]

That's the ones, although the family is just about as dead as the Tullys these days so almost irrelevant. 

[MediumHigh]

Funny thing in a reversal of fate with all the important freys dead Edmund Tully may just get the twins by the virtue of martiage

[Merusk]

Yep. I don't think we had Lothar Frey, and little Walder is dead already, right?

Out of date, but gives a good overview: http://i.imgur.com/W1wsoGc.png

[Mac]

Funny thing in a reversal of fate with all the important freys dead Edmund Tully may just get the twins by the virtue of martiage

He's called Edmure.

Not Edmund.

Now I am sad because Edmund Blackadder will never be in Game of Thrones.

[Merusk]

So I'm going to spoiler this, lord knows why.  It's HBO's blog but apparently SOME people are upset at the "revelation."

[calapine]

I am upset he doesn't have white-blong hair and purple eyes. :p

[Chimpy]

I am upset he doesn't have white-blong hair and purple eyes. :p

That part bothers me the most. I seem to remember that in the books all Targaeryn's had that distinctive look as it "bred true".

[Samwise]

I am upset he doesn't have white-blong hair and purple eyes. :p

Stark blood on the mother's side is dominant.  

The first book had some very strong clues about Jon's parentage by way of dropping these pieces of information about how the world works:

1) Noble houses can pass very distinctive hereditary traits through one parent or the other.
2) Targaryens had to inbreed to keep their lineage "pure".  All the blond/purple Targs were Targ on both sides.
3) Children fathered by a Baratheon almost always have dark coloration like their father.  This is borne out by Robert's bastards.
4) Children fathered by a Stark do NOT typically look like their father.  Cat grieves that none of her sons look like Ned.
5) Jon looks like a Stark.  This is one reason Cat hates him; he looks more like Ned than any of his trueborn sons.

The show lost 4 and 5 because it would have been difficult to make the casting work, and without the casting it makes no sense -- they would have had to cast someone as Ned who looked more like Jon, and someone as Robb who looks more like Cat.  But since as it is Robb and Jon look very much like each other you couldn't very well have had a scene where that difference is pointed out the way they did with Cersei's children vs Gendry.

[Teleku]

They bred it true by fucking each other.    

So it makes sense for him not have the look.

[eldaec]

I am upset he doesn't have white-blong hair and purple eyes. :p

That part bothers me the most. I seem to remember that in the books all Targaeryn's had that distinctive look as it "bred true".

He's not any less a Stark.

Tyrion has blond hair rather than white too.

[Teleku]

Ok, that theory has waaaaaay less proof/gravity than the Jon theory every did (which basically slapped you in the face in the first few books who his mother was).  

Do we still think it's true?  Not that I've seen anything to prove its false, but I haven't seen anything to hint its true in the TV show so far (unlike the Jon theory, where they hinted at it from season 1).

[naum]

http://io9.gizmodo.com/you-can-stop-second-guessing-that-big-jon-snow-revelati-1782810006

[Hayduke]

Isn't that what Merusk just posted?

[Ozzu]

According to some skilled lip-readers, Jon's real name is:


Now, I guess we won't know if that's true til next season, but interesting nonetheless.

[eldaec]

Ok, that theory has waaaaaay less proof/gravity than the Jon theory every did (which basically slapped you in the face in the first few books who his mother was). 

Do we still think it's true?  No that I've seen anything to prove its false, but I haven't seen anything to hint its true unlike in the TV series (unlike the Jon theory, where they hinted at it from season 1).

We know the dragon has three heads.

The TV series kept the saddle, kept the dreams of dragons, and kept Tywin's protestations that Tyrion is no son of his.

It is in no way certain - but the Dragon has 3 heads, and we've surely met all three of them. What I find most convincing is the number of clues in book 1. GRRM isn't very subtle in book 1.

[IainC]

Ok, that theory has waaaaaay less proof/gravity than the Jon theory every did (which basically slapped you in the face in the first few books who his mother was). 

Do we still think it's true?  No that I've seen anything to prove its false, but I haven't seen anything to hint its true unlike in the TV series (unlike the Jon theory, where they hinted at it from season 1).

We know the dragon has three heads.

The TV series kept the saddle, kept the dreams of dragons, and kept Tywin's protestations that Tyrion is no son of his.

It is in no way certain - but the Dragon has 3 heads, and we've surely met all three of them. What I find most convincing is the number of clues in book 1. GRRM isn't very subtle in book 1.

Surely the third head was Dany's brother who got the golden shower from Khal Drogo.

[Rendakor]

Viserys doesn't really make sense because by the time we hear that "the dragon has three heads" prophecy he's already dead.

[March]

Viserys doesn't really make sense because by the time we hear that "the dragon has three heads" prophecy he's already dead.

This season was a little thick with Tyrion and Dragons... they pulled forward his talk of dreams of dragons and built an episode around him personally freeing the dragons.  His relationship with Daenerys is also going in an increasingly fraternal direction - almost tender in the last scene.

Here's a link with a more thorough combing of the books for clues: http://winteriscoming.net/2016/05/06/game-of-thrones-theorycrafting-is-tyrion-lannister-actually-a-targaryen/

[eldaec]

Viserys doesn't really make sense because by the time we hear that "the dragon has three heads" prophecy he's already dead.

Young Griff is a much better candidate to be Quaithe's Mummers Dragon, and Moqorro's fake dragon.

[lamaros]

Did someone link this yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfpNoHQY3F8

Spoilers, etc.

[eldaec]

One more point on Tyrion - we're continually told kinslayers are cursed on a level with oathbreakers, and it certainly did not work out for Robb, Ramsey, or Stannis. OTOH Tyrion hasn't suffered for killing Tywin.

[lamaros]

Hes still related even if not the father.

[IainC]

Hes still related even if not the father.

Yeah, even if Tyrion is a Targaryan, Tywin is still a closer relative to him than Rickard Karstark was to Robb.

[eldaec]

Fair point.

[eldaec]

Directors for next year showing up around the web, no Sapochnik.  :(

[HaemishM]

If he isn't tapped to do the series finale, someone should get slapped.

[Khaldun]

Mylod is directing more, which I think is unfortunate--he's been at the helm for some of the weakest work the series has offered.

[Chimpy]

One more point on Tyrion - we're continually told kinslayers are cursed on a level with oathbreakers, and it certainly did not work out for Robb, Ramsey, or Stannis. OTOH Tyrion hasn't suffered for killing Tywin.

That whole "breaking oaths and kinslaying gets punished" thing is a canard. The real over arching moral premise of the series is "Everyone gets punished and everyone dies in the end". 

[MediumHigh]

One more point on Tyrion - we're continually told kinslayers are cursed on a level with oathbreakers, and it certainly did not work out for Robb, Ramsey, or Stannis. OTOH Tyrion hasn't suffered for killing Tywin.

That whole "breaking oaths and kinslaying gets punished" thing is a canard. The real over arching moral premise of the series is "Everyone gets punished and everyone dies in the end". 

The moral of the story, there is no morals. There is no karma, no greater good making people suffer for the evil shit they do. Your accountable for your own actions and equally accountable for avoiding the the consequences. And there is a 1/10000 chance you was lucky to be born instead of born lucky. You know basically like real life. We normally read stuff like game of thrones to escape from that reality, GRRM genius was not subverting that expectation which made people go "well shit this is exciting glad this ain't happening to me".

[Speedy Cerviche]

Viserys doesn't really make sense because by the time we hear that "the dragon has three heads" prophecy he's already dead.

[MediumHigh]

Viserys doesn't really make sense because by the time we hear that "the dragon has three heads" prophecy he's already dead.

Dont know why this is spoilers...

Book Varys & Illyrio are half baked schemers or fumbling morons depending on whose is lamenting on their failed plots. Fake Aegon being a fake is probably not even known by either of them, considering that the plan was to have him (fake aegon) marry Dany and have Viserys lead the claim for the iron throne... well until the opportunity to get the dorthraki (an army) presented itself, well until Viserys dies for being too dumb to live, and until Dany accidentally kills her husband doesn't return to Illyrio but goes on a rampage across Essos. Their trying to engineer events they can't control and failing. Little Finger in contrast has manipulate events so far that he is basically 2 marriages away from claiming the iron throne.

Varys & Illyrio just want a Targ on the throne. Doesn't matter who. Aegon original purpose was to marry Dany (Visery will probably marry Dornish as that contract between Dorne and the Targs is still expected to be honored. When Dany conquered slavers bay we was being sent to offer a marriage proposal. Tyrion fucked that plan by whispering to the boys ear that invading westeroes is a good idea. That wasn't Varys or Illyrio idea, and ultimately it doesn't matter because they barely count as masterminds. Competent and intelligent men of great talent, yes, players of the "great game" no.

[eldaec]

What the fuck Varys wants remains the biggest question in asoiaf for me.

The Blackfyre thing feels like a stretch, but I don't have a better theory.

Being a Targ loyalist makes no sense. It conflicts with his anti-magic monologuing and with his behaviour under Aerys II, where he actively undermined a dynasty he is now apparently working to restore.

[HaemishM]

I thought his goals were pretty clear. He wants a ruler for Westeros that isn't a mad, murdering shitgoblin, one whose concern is as much about the safety of the people AND the continuation of the kingdom minus some of its less savory aspects. Peace in our time and all that.

He's one of the few who has always been working less for personal power in contrast to someone like Littlefinger who doesn't give a fuck about the realm, he just wants personal power.

[eldaec]

He was remarkably rich and powerful before he came to Westeros.

TV Varys in particular would have us believe he crossed the narrow sea and worked his way into Aerys' court purely to help the little people. Really? Really really? In Asoiaf?