Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

[Ratman_tf]

Persued this thread out of boredom. I still think the SD scene in Empire is nuts. 

Kingdom... Plinkett has that short bit of stuff that he didn't hate about the film, and I agree. There are some scenes with real human touches (probably Spielberg) like Mutt snagging the beer, and Indy putting it back. I think the idea of the grey alien mythology becoming our modern religion is a valid and interesting one. And the story could have been about that, and about Indy passing the torch to Mutt, but instead we got the hodgepodge of Indy tropes without any heart or real thought. And I'm not talking Citizen Kane here, just putting some effort into the film. If the Ark, the Stones and the Grail were macguffins that inspired thought, the crystal skull was jut a macguffin to get wheezy ole Indy back in the saddle one more time.

[Abagadro]

Part time.

[Simond]

Yeah I agree the reveiw could have been condensed into 10minutes saying "This movie was watered down and family friendly: the end"

To use a take on the eternal Dr. Who defence - Indy 1-3 and SW 4-6 were family films, Indy 4 and SW 1-3 were kids films.

[UnSub]

I think the shift in Indy films reflects Spielburg's changing attitudes towards what makes a good film. I'd dispute that Indy 1 & 2 are good family films, given the melting Nazis and hearts being ripped out, but they were much more focused on Indiana Jones as a character and how he took his lumps and still came out on top. He wasn't afraid to fight dirty to win, and probably had to, given all that was against him.

Later films had him sharing time with 4 to 5 characters at once, which is fine if I wanted to see "Dr Marcus Brody & His Comic Tomfoolery", but I don't.

[Cyrrex]

All of which fails to recall the ridiculous scenes where Shia is swinging through the trees with monkeys at the same rate of speeding vehicles.  Or where he is ridiculously sword fighting on top of speeding jeeps (the precise details of which my brain has wisely chosen to forget).  Or all the other ridiulous stuff.  No, the difference between 1-3 and number four is what happened in the first three was, while highly improbable, very cool (even Temple, to an extent).  The stuff that happens in number four is equally improbable, but is not remotely cool and is actually completely retarded.  The gags in the first three were funny, the ones in the final one were embarassing.  And the unlikely and uncomfortable reunion with his old flame?  Facepalm.  They should have left her out of the movie entirely, jesus criminy that was some uncomfortable stuff.

Oh, and didn't Cate Blanchett play a crazy Russian lady?  I don't have a big opinion of her as an actress one way or the other, but she was goddamn terrible in this movie.  Talk about miscasting.

The fact that number 4 was about aliens and crystal skulls had nothing to do with how terrible it was.  Bad casting decisions, wooden acting, and reprehensible direction and screenplay.  Primarily the latter two.

Later films had him sharing time with 4 to 5 characters at once, which is fine if I wanted to see "Dr Marcus Brody & His Comic Tomfoolery", but I don't.

This is also quite true, but I think the lack of focus on Indy had something to do with his inability (physically) to play the role like he did before.  Which doesn't mean we have to accept it.

[HaemishM]

The MacGuffin in Skull being goddamn aliens, while bad, was certainly not untenable. But none of the buildup to it made much fucking sense, and it all looked horribly over CGI'ed. The brain just rebelled at how bad most of it looked, like the uncanny valley reared its ugly head even though there were live action bits on top of it. Most of it was also just stupid. Temple of Doom was not great, but at least its wacky stunts didn't make me go "OH COME ON!" Shia swinging with the monkeys and sword fighting over jeeps? That shit didn't look remotely real and it wasn't.

[UnSub]

Yes, Cate Blanchett was the Russian military psychic. I thought she was okay, but it wasn't a great role (possibly for anyone).

I agree that the script for Indy IV was awful as were most of the set pieces, even if they were fitting the pulp roots of Indiana Jones. And too many didn't involve Jones that much - if Ford can't do the action, get stuntmen to do it and he can just do the close-ups.

I'm not a fan of Indy III, and see a lot of the flaws in that movie - slapstick comedy, too many characters, badly done emotional scenes - creeping from that film into Indy IV. Plus in the earlier films it seemed that Spielburg was willing to spend time on the set-ups - the Nazis had been in Egypt longer than Jones, or the corrupted palace in Indy II eating weird food - but by Indy IV it was, "We need a fight here - the tribesmen can just pop out of the walls or something".

[DraconianOne]

I'm not a fan of Indy III, and see a lot of the flaws in that movie - slapstick comedy, too many characters, badly done emotional scenes

Likewise. Curiously, it was the CGI shots of the plane and tank going over the edge of the cliff that did it for me. Plus the totally contrived prologue with River Phoenix.

[Furiously]

Shia laboof or however it's spelled ruined every scene he was in.

[Margalis]

The Indiana Jones movies very quickly fell into formula. There has to be a scene where there is a dude with a sword and Indy has a gun. There has to be a retread of the scene where Indy fights the guy who gets chopped up by the airplane propeller - in 2 it is some choppy thing on a conveyer belt, in 3 it is a boat propeller. One had a room of snakes so 2 had a room of bugs.

None of the movies past the first feel like genuine efforts where someone had another story to tell, to me they all come of as cash-ins that just hit the same crowd-pleasing story beats and every film is an homage to the first.

[Teleku]

You all really do hate fun.   

I think Indy III was probably my favorite.  Still loved all 3, however (Crystal Skulls doesn't get to count as one).

[Samwise]

The Indiana Jones movies very quickly fell into formula. There has to be a scene where there is a dude with a sword and Indy has a gun. There has to be a retread of the scene where Indy fights the guy who gets chopped up by the airplane propeller - in 2 it is some choppy thing on a conveyer belt, in 3 it is a boat propeller. One had a room of snakes so 2 had a room of bugs.

None of the movies past the first feel like genuine efforts where someone had another story to tell, to me they all come of as cash-ins that just hit the same crowd-pleasing story beats and every film is an homage to the first.

Just going to plug the Plinkett review here (in case you didn't see it) and say that he did a very good job of laying out the "Indy formula" by showing those bits from each movie side by side.  It's pretty fun to watch.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Yes the second and third movies followed the same formula without being very original but the formula as it was, worked.  You can argue that the first was the best but the second two were both very good in my opinion and most would agree.  The problem is applying the same formula to a fourth movie while losing a lot of the touches that made the first three(family friendly!)  it just wore it's welcome out.

[Cyrrex]

I don't think it wore out its welcome at all...I just think the 4th movie was executed extremely poorly.  Had they kept the exact same story, and managed to better honor the original formula, it would have been a smashing good time as far as I am concerned.

[Abagadro]

The main problem is that Harrison Ford is now old and a rather shitty actor.

[Cyrrex]

Old yes, and probably too old to play that role in any capacity.  But shitty?  Nah.  I imagine that he could smell the shittyness on this one from a mile away and just phoned it in.

[Abagadro]

He phones everything in now.  He basically plays "crotchety Harrison Ford" now.  That ain't Indy.

[Cyrrex]

I'll take your word for it, having not seen any of his other recent stuff.  I didn't really know there was any.

[Margalis]

I can't even remember the last Ford movie I saw. Maybe that one with Ann Heche when it played on cable, 6 Days 7 Nights? But that was ages ago.

[Merusk]

Ab isn't wrong.  Everything since Ford hooked-up with Callista Flockheart has been pretty blatantly phoned-in.   Part of that's probably because he's 70 and the public wants him in action movies.

[TheWalrus]

I thought he was fucking great in K-19, but IMDB tells me that was way back in 02. So yeah, not as relevant as I thought.

[shiznitz]

Ab isn't wrong.  Everything since Ford hooked-up with Callista Flockheart has been pretty blatantly phoned-in.   Part of that's probably because he's 70 and the public wants him in action movies.

Did she turn into dust yet?

[SurfD]

I thought he was fucking great in K-19, but IMDB tells me that was way back in 02. So yeah, not as relevant as I thought.

I thought he was pretty good in Morning Glory.  And IMDB appearently lists him as being Col. Hyram Graff in Enders Game (in pre-production, slated for 2013), of which I am cautiously optimistic that he wont fuck up the role.  Course, There is a very good chance that they will totally fuck up Enders Game in and of itself :(

[Ingmar]

I don't see how you could fuck something up that sucked to begin with, the only direction Ender's Game can go is up.

[HaemishM]

I don't see how you could fuck something up that sucked to begin with, the only direction Ender's Game can go is up.

 

[UnSub]

The bits of "Morning Glory" I saw with Harrison Ford were good, but he plays the role of grumpy asshole in the film so it may be a whole art-imitate-life thing.

[Khaldun]

Lucas did an interview that's been widely quoted this week in which:

a) he promises to never to Star Wars stuff again because, you know, he's tired of hearing the fans bitch about what he does with HIS PROPERTY

and

b) says it was nice of Spielberg to claim credit for the nuke-the-fridge idea to try and protect him, but that it was in fact all Lucas' idea (we could tell, you schmuck, because if it's a terrible idea, it's probably yours) and that "most scientists" agree with him that the scene is actually quite plausible.

[Ironwood]

Are those the same 'most scientists' that claim Global Warming ain't happening and the Earth is 7000 years old ?

ie, the ones that will take a massive fuck off cheque ?

[Khaldun]

I think in this case it's "most scientists that are as real as Jar Jar Binks is real".

[Ironwood]

Weesa peoples gonna die ?

[SurfD]

b) says it was nice of Spielberg to claim credit for the nuke-the-fridge idea to try and protect him, but that it was in fact all Lucas' idea (we could tell, you schmuck, because if it's a terrible idea, it's probably yours) and that "most scientists" agree with him that the scene is actually quite plausible.

Thing is, I am completely willing to believe that hiding in an old fridge might actually protect you from nuclear radiation.  God only knows how much lead was in a fridge back then.  The part where suspention of disbelief jumps up and kicks you in the nuts with steel toed boots is where we are expected to believe that being inside a fridge would also protect you from being HURLED HUNDREDS OF YARDS THROUGH THE AIR AND SLAMMED INTO THE GROUND REPEATEDLY.

[Tannhauser]

Not a good time for Lucas to get snotty with "Red Tails" coming out tomorrow.

[Sheepherder]

God only knows how much lead was in a fridge back then.

Not much.  Maybe the paint and some solder.

[UnSub]

The fridge scene was the smallest of the problems that film had.

[Teleku]

Not a good time for Lucas to get snotty with "Red Tails" coming out tomorrow.

Red Tails is currently sitting at 35% on rotten tomatoes.  Poor Tuskegee Airmen.  If only somebody, ANYBODY, else had decided to take on the movie about them.