SWTOR

[Lantyssa]

So, considering that one can pre-order at almost certainly the last minute without missing much for zero cost and very low risk, it's not fair to call SWTOR offering pre-orders when they did a "scam".

It's on the same level as Columbia House to me.  Not illegal, pretty clever really, but kinda sketchy when you think about the business model in detail.

Were this Algernon or whatever it's called, people would not be throwing down $60 for a product sight-unseen.

[sam, an eggplant]

I really don't know what people screaming about the NDA think they are hiding.  

Right, and I can't tell you due to the NDA. Get it now?

[Sjofn]

Lantyssa, I say this with love. Don't buy the game. It could send the most mind blowing orgasms directly to your brain, and you will not like it. Because you have already firmly decided the whole thing is terrible. And that's fine, that's your opinion. But you'll regret buying it. So don't.


EDIT: Also, you know who hasn't pre-ordered yet? Me. 

[Margalis]

Given that most groups of friends in MMOs fall apart because people level at different speeds the head start thing is fairly significant.

Giving early access to people who pre-order would make it pretty tough for people who didn't to play with them.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I like how you could take my most vitriolic post in this thread and I'd still say swtor would be a fun game.  If you ask some people here though Ive done nothing but troll the fuck out of this game.

You all might want to take a step back and breathe before posting. 

[eldaec]

Given that most groups of friends in MMOs fall apart because people level at different speeds the head start thing is fairly significant.

Giving early access to people who pre-order would make it pretty tough for people who didn't to play with them.

Alts.

[Nevermore]

But isn't there just one character per server?

[koro]

But isn't there just one character per server?

What? No. Eight per.

[Evildrider]

I like how you could take my most vitriolic post in this thread and I'd still say swtor would be a fun game.  If you ask some people here though Ive done nothing but troll the fuck out of this game.

You all might want to take a step back and breathe before posting. 

Pfft, we have to get to 300 pages somehow.   

[Ginaz]

Lantyssa, I say this with love. Don't buy the game. It could send the most mind blowing orgasms directly to your brain, and you will not like it. Because you have already firmly decided the whole thing is terrible. And that's fine, that's your opinion. But you'll regret buying it. So don't.


EDIT: Also, you know who hasn't pre-ordered yet? Me.  

I don't think she's decided anything yet.  She just feels that there shouldn't be an NDA in place if they're going to ask people to pre-order.  Having played the game myself, I'm not worried about pre-ordering but I have a lot more info to base a decision on.  I can't say that I disagree with her but pre-orders like this seem to be the norm these days.  You can either wait for the game to release and see what the general consensus is or roll the dice and hope its worth it.  In her case, if she's that worried about wasting money, I would suggest waiting at least a few days after release to see if she wants to play or not.

Edit:  I do think calling it a "scam" is a bit much.

[Lantyssa]

Lantyssa, I say this with love. Don't buy the game. It could send the most mind blowing orgasms directly to your brain, and you will not like it. Because you have already firmly decided the whole thing is terrible. And that's fine, that's your opinion. But you'll regret buying it. So don't.

Actually I haven't decided it's terrible.

I'm pretty sure it's going to be a WoW-alike.  That is a negative, but I did play WoW off and on for years.  I'm sure I'll play it again one day.  What I don't know is if SWTOR is going to be a good or a bad WoW-rip.  There are a lot of things I've seen that put me off, that's true because they appear to be copying WoW and I'd prefer they didn't do that, but I haven't actually decided because I haven't gotten a chance to really see or know about the game in-depth.  I beta'd Rift and I thought it was a good game, despite trying to too hard to be like WoW in my opinion.  True I did not buy it, but I was still one of it's biggest supporters on f13 and would not have regretted a purchase because I had a chance to play the game and get a feel for the dev team.

The reason I sound so down on SWTOR is because I keep trying to explain why I have hesitations or what my concerns are, not because I've made up my mind.  But people keep focusing so intently on those concerns, so I keep trying to explain them, so it further blows them out of proportion.  No one can tell me if my concerns are unfounded or spot on because of the NDA.  To bring the personality thread into this, I'm a Type 6/5.  I want to know everything I possibly can about a situation before committing to it.  What I want to know isn't unreasonable or some State Secret, yet people keep defending the Holy NDA as if I've never seen a game in a beta state and it'd affect my decision.  Geezus.  I've beta'd half the MMOs in existence.  Even some of the collectively agreed upon shittiest ever produced because I felt they might have something worthwhile to learn from.

I just want to know what the fuck I'm buying if I put money down.  It's really that simple.  It's not some concerted effort on my part to hate the game and convince everyone else how terrible it is.

[Sky]

The NDA being dropped isn't really going to tell you that. You'll get a bunch of jaded retards all expounding from the viewpoints of their own baggage. Much like the leak Q&As have been. What you really want is for you or some of the friends you intend to play with to get some testing time, the NDA really isn't the issue, yeah?

[Draegan]

Lanty is just "bad mouthing" the game because she doesnt want it to be better than GW2. 

[Surlyboi]

I like how you could take my most vitriolic post in this thread and I'd still say swtor would be a fun game.  If you ask some people here though Ive done nothing but troll the fuck out of this game.

You all might want to take a step back and breathe before posting. 

*Cleansing breath*
Nope. Still a troll.
*Cleansing breath*

[tmp]

I just want to know what the fuck I'm buying if I put money down.

I believe in this case game preorders in general simply ain't for you. (although i quite agree with the sentiment personally, and for similar reasons don't really bother with preorders myself)

[Mosesandstick]

Right, and I can't tell you due to the NDA. Get it now?

If there wasn't an NDA, I think we would be discussing the sort of things Lantyssa wants, bias or no.

[Spiff]

True I did not buy it, but I was still one of it's biggest supporters on f13 and would not have regretted a purchase because I had a chance to play the game and get a feel for the dev team.

Well I'm sure Trion can take that to the bank 

And that's the bottom line, I don't see what Bioware (nay: EA) has to gain by giving you more and I'm pretty sure they don't see it either.
I doubt it's anything you don't know already, but the last phases of beta are more of a marketing tool than anything else for these games.

Seems to me Trion did what they did at least in part because they came out of nowhere with a AAA game and needed to quickly build a reputation and some word of mouth, not because they felt obliged to share out of some sense of decency.

If I had to guess the (awful?) truth is: there isn't anything important you don't already know, there's no big secret, the gameplay will feel familiar like an old (and slightly smelly) pair of sneakers.

The marketing of SWOR is by far the most impressive thing about it to me now (in a perverse sort of way), 'Bioware makes SW MMO' was always going to be a hypetrain, but the amount of fanboiism and hype they've spun out of WoW in space! (now with more voice!) is awe inspiring.

[Margalis]

What I want to know isn't unreasonable or some State Secret, yet people keep defending the Holy NDA as if I've never seen a game in a beta state and it'd affect my decision.  Geezus.  I've beta'd half the MMOs in existence.  Even some of the collectively agreed upon shittiest ever produced because I felt they might have something worthwhile to learn from.

Your mistake is trying to reason with Star Wars fans. These are people who love Jar Jar, Midichlorians and a bunch of Teddy Ruxpins defeating the most powerful army in the universe by rolling logs at them. 

[Fordel]

Hey, some of us were rooting for that army!


*posts trooper gif again*

[Sjofn]

I'm pretty sure it's going to be a WoW-alike.  That is a negative, but I did play WoW off and on for years.  I'm sure I'll play it again one day.  What I don't know is if SWTOR is going to be a good or a bad WoW-rip.  There are a lot of things I've seen that put me off, that's true because they appear to be copying WoW and I'd prefer they didn't do that, but I haven't actually decided because I haven't gotten a chance to really see or know about the game in-depth.  I beta'd Rift and I thought it was a good game, despite trying to too hard to be like WoW in my opinion.  True I did not buy it, but I was still one of it's biggest supporters on f13 and would not have regretted a purchase because I had a chance to play the game and get a feel for the dev team.

It sounds more to me like you want to beta it yourself than anything else. Which makes more sense to me, since some asshat telling me "this is the worst thing ever" or "this is the bestest system ever" simply isn't going to be as good as actually trying it yourself. Ever.

However, nearly every post of yours I've read on this topic, while I do get that you're just ... ah ... concerned, comes across as absolutely expecting the worst, it burns you like elven rope that it's going to be WoW-y, GW2 is going to do it so much better, etc. This is why I don't think you'll enjoy it. It has to overcome such a monumental amount of caution, shall we say, that I doubt very much it could ever scale it. You don't want to make hot, steamy love to BioWare games like I do, you're not particularly interested in a WoW-y game, and it's got a pretty rude box price for a game you're not really sold on (hell, even one you are). Like I said, I haven't pre-ordered, and I am (apparently) one of the "lol SW tards" about this game. I see nothing but bitter disappointment in your future if you do so.

And I'm one of the people that would like to play with you sometime! But I figure we'd both be happier doing it in GW2. :P


My own personal feeling on the NDA still being up is "meh." No one can tell me if I'll like playing it. Not really. Gameplay videos and shit never do anything for me, reading talent trees just makes me roll my own eyes up into my head in boredom. If I'm really unsure about a game, I just don't pre-order. I know MMOs can be a bit of a special case since no one wants to be level bullshit while their friends are level awesome, but I don't see a reason to even give half a fuck about pre-ordering when they don't even have a firm release date yet.

[UnSub]

The only thing that Bioware may be hiding is a couple of surprise systems, like the legacy system.  Other than that I can't see them hiding any OMGWTF things for this game.

The inevitable cash shop won't be discussed until last minute, maybe even post-launch.

But I don't know what I don't know. I'm not interested to go fishing around beta leak sites for SWOR for things that will possibly change anyway. Because my key interest - has BioWare got the combat mechanics working right? - won't be known until the game leaves beta and players have to start paying that $15 a month.

Also, I highly doubt that the NDA is being kept up to keep the story secret. BioWare could release the entire 30 000 page storyline tomorrow and it wouldn't change game sales one iota.

[Sky]

I beta'd Rift and I thought it was a good game, despite trying to too hard to be like WoW in my opinion.  True I did not buy it, but I was still one of it's biggest supporters on f13 and would not have regretted a purchase because I had a chance to play the game and get a feel for the dev team.

Who out of the group that was in alpha did buy it at release? Draegan? It's set up as a raider game, there wasn't a whole lot for anyone else if you played 1-50 once, let alone twice. It's a good game, but not aimed at my demographic. I'd hate to get into some extended test with TOR and have the same thing happen, I don't think it will be nearly as replayable as the hype (zomg fanboy alert).

Your mistake is trying to reason with Star Wars fans. These are people who love Jar Jar, Midichlorians and a bunch of Teddy Ruxpins defeating the most powerful army in the universe by rolling logs at them. 

Now see, that was a good troll.

But honestly, I'm reading the Old Republic books right now  All but one (so far) is better than the prequels. I figure - how much better is something like LotRO when you actually have a feel for what's going on, the lore and politics? Fatal Alliance is actually pretty damned good, which is SO REFRESHING after the abortion that was Kemp's book. Not a ton of Old Republic books out, so I'll probably finish these up and hit the Bounty Hunter trilogy (playing a BH) and skip other EU stuff.

[Lakov_Sanite]

If only LotRO had some kind of good source material for lore so people could get into the game.

[Riggswolfe]

Ok. I have to be careful what I say because I'm in the beta. As usual I can confirm I still have my preorder and I'm a dork and have a collector's edition even.

Now, as to Lantyssa's point it's pretty easily solved to me. Preorder it from Amazon. When the NDA drops, if you don't like what you see, cancel the preorder. You're not even out $5 but you have the preorder just in case.

I wouldn't be surprised if the NDA drops in late October or maybe early November. I don't have any insider knowledge, it's just a guess.

[Draegan]

If only LotRO had some kind of good source material for lore so people could get into the game.

You're still a pretty fucking terrible troll.  You're as subtle as an atomic bomb.

[Reg]

I don't get the irrational TOR-hate.  The trolls are far closer to edge than any of the so-called fanboys in this thread. Oh well, at least he's straight-forward. It's better than the "Oh dear! I just may not be able to bring myself to play this game!" concern trolling I suppose. 

[eldaec]

Now, as to Lantyssa's point it's pretty easily solved to me. Preorder it from Amazon. When the NDA drops, if you don't like what you see, cancel the preorder. You're not even out $5 but you have the preorder just in case.

Better solution:

Don't preorder. Buy it when released. Or don't.

[Tannhauser]

Hand-wringing over pre-ordering is about retarded.  I watched the Sith Inquisitor video and he used the same ability (lightning) over and over and I didn't see him swing his lightsaber once. 

It didn't look fun.

That's whats got me wringing MY hands.

[Riggswolfe]

Now, as to Lantyssa's point it's pretty easily solved to me. Preorder it from Amazon. When the NDA drops, if you don't like what you see, cancel the preorder. You're not even out $5 but you have the preorder just in case.

Better solution:

Don't preorder. Buy it when released. Or don't.

That works too. She seems to be wavering about preordering explicitly so she is guranteed she can play with her friends. That's why I suggested my solution.

[luckton]

Am I allowed to LOL when the NDA drops, people end up liking it and go out to pre-order, only to find out there's no pre-orders left because they want to load-balance things at launch?   

[Draegan]

Hand-wringing over pre-ordering is about retarded.  I watched the Sith Inquisitor video and he used the same ability (lightning) over and over and I didn't see him swing his lightsaber once. 

It didn't look fun.

That's whats got me wringing MY hands.

Jedi Sages and Sith Inquisitors are casters like mages.  So it's like any other caster in an mmo.

Am I allowed to LOL when the NDA drops, people end up liking it and go out to pre-order, only to find out there's no pre-orders left because they want to load-balance things at launch?   

I'll be laughing right with you.

[luckton]

Hand-wringing over pre-ordering is about retarded.  I watched the Sith Inquisitor video and he used the same ability (lightning) over and over and I didn't see him swing his lightsaber once.  

It didn't look fun.

That's whats got me wringing MY hands.

Jedi Sages and Sith Inquisitors are casters like mages.  So it's like any other caster in an mmo.

Other clips I've seen have them using their saber for deflecting blasters and stuff.  They still get some saber skills, but yeah, they're casters through and through.

[Tyrnan]

Jedi Sages and Sith Inquisitors are casters like mages.  So it's like any other caster in an mmo.

Other clips I've seen have them using their saber for deflecting blasters and stuff.  They still get some saber skills, but yeah, they're casters through and through.

Don't they both have a melee DPS AC or has that been changed? I was planning on playing one caster and one melee if I roll one on either side.

[luckton]

Jedi Sages and Sith Inquisitors are casters like mages.  So it's like any other caster in an mmo.

Other clips I've seen have them using their saber for deflecting blasters and stuff.  They still get some saber skills, but yeah, they're casters through and through.

Don't they both have a melee DPS AC or has that been changed? I was planning on playing one caster and one melee if I roll one on either side.

Yes, the caster role is one AC for them.  The other is a stealth Rogue or tank, depending on how you invest talents.

[eldaec]

Am I allowed to LOL when the NDA drops, people end up liking it and go out to pre-order, only to find out there's no pre-orders left because they want to load-balance things at launch?   

Why would you go out to preorder at this stage? Or at any stage?

It is not likely that having a head start of a few days is going to impact your life choices or long term happiness to any measurable degree.

Just say no to pre-order bullshit.