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Author Topic: SWTOR  (Read 2270123 times)
VainEldritch
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Posts: 204


Reply #7630 on: June 29, 2011, 10:58:59 AM

The game is worth buying for the dialogue options. Options are good. You are insane.

Beat me to it...  why so serious?

On the other hand, I'm having doubts of my own about SWTOR. The lack sandboxy goodness coupled by my renewed interest in actually playing Eve has put SWTOR off my "must try" list. Think I'll see the reaction on release before I buy.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
Murgos
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Posts: 7474


Reply #7631 on: June 29, 2011, 11:10:03 AM

It's Hoax, he doesn't ever know anything he just asserts it very strongly.
*edit* this video was what sealed it for me, its not trying to pan the game at all but just look at it, what the fuck is exciting about that combat? How does it not look like <generic_mmo> reskinned with Star Wars trappings?

I dare someone to say that this game is worth playing because we have 3 dialogue options during quests. I fucking dare you.  Mob

Do I really need to quote myself?

I mean it's nice that you have an opinion and all.  But, dude, it's your opinion no matter how strongly you assert it.  Trying to strawman it down to 'three dialog options' though?  That's pretty weak.  With that criteria no one should play Mass Effect or Dragon Age either.  I mean what would be the magic number of dialog options?  4, 5, 1000?  Oh, that's right it doesn't matter because it's a non-sense argument.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Surlyboi
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Posts: 10963

eat a bag of dicks


Reply #7632 on: June 29, 2011, 11:37:25 AM

It's Hoax, he doesn't ever know anything he just asserts it very strongly.

Hey look I'm sure that there will be people who like star wars but aren't fanboi enough to be insulted by the fact that there is an off tank jedi class and a buffing jedi class AND who want to play what is essentially a half baked single player RPG with other people despite the fact that the combat systems are unresponsive diku drivel (same as they ever are) because they like being able to auto attack and auto pilot AND don't care that lewtz really aren't as cool in a scifi let alone star wars setting.

Those people might like it more than Aion. Really though who is watching 10 minutes of gameplay and thinking: "can't wait to buy it!"

What the fuck is the appeal? That they are shoving a square IP into a round hole? It has SW music? Laser swords?

*edit* this video was what sealed it for me, its not trying to pan the game at all but just look at it, what the fuck is exciting about that combat? How does it not look like <generic_mmo> reskinned with Star Wars trappings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL4il3SZ_Hc

I dare someone to say that this game is worth playing because we have 3 dialogue options during quests. I fucking dare you.  Mob

So basically, you ARE going with your gut and have nothing solid to base that on. Ok, remind me to ignore you on this subject from now on.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Malakili
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Posts: 10596


Reply #7633 on: June 29, 2011, 12:08:18 PM


What the fuck is the appeal?

I was more or less of this opinion until I got over being bitter the game was not SWG 2.0 (or, 1.0, or well you get the point).  Then i realized for the box price I'll get at least a KOTOR game out of it, and if the MMO parts end up decent all the better.   This is a new approach for me, so we'll see how it goes.  So thats the appeal to me.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 12:11:09 PM by Malakili »
Hoax
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l33t kiddie


Reply #7634 on: June 29, 2011, 12:32:49 PM

So basically, you ARE going with your gut and have nothing solid to base that on. Ok, remind me to ignore you on this subject from now on.

That's not gut, that's what I see with my eyes. Its been 15 years I can recognize reskinned generic diku gameplay just fine without spending a month playing a given game. Any of you insulted by me telling you why this game is going to be trash are welcome to tell me what I'm wrong about.
-the loot tables will suck, how are you supposed to enjoy dressing your character when most classes have a very iconic and specific look? What is the loot progression on a light saber exactly?
-a jedi class that is balanced to the han solo class and the random clone special forces trooper is going to feel stupid, not as stupid as a support buffing jedi though.
-questing will be reinvented by adding more voice over (lulz) and giving storyline quests dialogue options.
-how taking a good rpg and gutting its gameplay (kotor) and replacing that gameplay with drab as fuck mmo gameplay is going to be great.

If I love rpg elements I'd rather play an rpg like ME3 or DA2. If I like mmo's I'd rather have lewtz and combat that is a little more amazing looking than what we had in 2001 with AO.

If your position is, I'll buy anything set in the Star Wars universe no matter how half baked the game is, go with fucking god but don't jump down my throat for pointing out this game is stupid.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #7635 on: June 29, 2011, 12:35:06 PM

Because KotOR was all about the awesome combat and the loot was amazing.
Paelos
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Posts: 27075

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #7636 on: June 29, 2011, 12:55:45 PM

That's not gut, that's what I see with my eyes. Its been 15 years I can recognize reskinned generic diku gameplay just fine without spending a month playing a given game. Any of you insulted by me telling you why this game is going to be trash are welcome to tell me what I'm wrong about.

If the story is good, the polish is there, and the community is solid, the combat won't be the issue. It's never been the issue that kept this type of game from being successful.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
sam, an eggplant
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Posts: 1518


Reply #7637 on: June 29, 2011, 01:25:11 PM

Because KotOR was all about the awesome combat and the loot was amazing.
Exactly. Diku combat is old hat to us these days, but keep in mind that combat in KOTOR was limited to queueing a few buff or damage spells and banging on the target with your lightsabre. It wasn't tactical at all; it wasn't anything like mass effect 2's combat on harder modes. SWTOR's combat is much better than KOTOR's.
SnakeCharmer
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Posts: 3807


Reply #7638 on: June 29, 2011, 01:27:16 PM

If the story is good, the polish is there, and the community is solid, the combat won't be the issue. It's never been the issue that kept this type of game from being successful.

The story will be good.  Glorious, even.
The polish?  Maybe.
The community?  Total shit.

1.5 out of 3 ain't bad.
Malakili
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Posts: 10596


Reply #7639 on: June 29, 2011, 01:29:16 PM

If the story is good, the polish is there, and the community is solid, the combat won't be the issue. It's never been the issue that kept this type of game from being successful.

The story will be good.  Glorious, even.
The polish?  Maybe.
The community?  Total shit.

1.5 out of 3 ain't bad.

If we have enough Bat Country people sticking around past the initial month (a fairly big if), then community shouldn't be a problem.  The real key is not having to interact with too many randoms.
Reg
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Posts: 5281


Reply #7640 on: June 29, 2011, 01:37:27 PM

Hah I seriously wouldn't count on much of a Bat Country presence past the first month.  EVE is the only F13 game that has lasted so far.
Samprimary
Contributor
Posts: 4229


Reply #7641 on: June 29, 2011, 01:39:55 PM

*edit* this video was what sealed it for me, its not trying to pan the game at all but just look at it, what the fuck is exciting about that combat? How does it not look like <generic_mmo> reskinned with Star Wars trappings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL4il3SZ_Hc

I dare someone to say that this game is worth playing because we have 3 dialogue options during quests. I fucking dare you.  Mob

I could tell pretty easily watching that video that the combat difficulty was tuned way down. Probably on account of the fact that the bioware event holders knew that it was going to be played by scrubs who hadn't even gotten to do the tutorial section of the game yet and adjusted the challenge accordingly. That way, people could trial the game going 'um, let's try this button! and how about this button!' all Out Of This World tank combat scene, without wiping over and over again.

In addition, even had the combat NOT been dialed down to derp challenge level, you're watching combat. You're watching someone else fight in an MMO. That is pretty much always boring as shit. It does not speak to how actually entertaining or engrossing the act of actually playing the game is. Remember that. Ergh, actually, watching this video is more painful than normal because the Jedi Guardian really does not know what he's doing at all.

Also, dare accepted. Quest dialogue trees work.
Paelos
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Posts: 27075

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #7642 on: June 29, 2011, 01:41:57 PM

I mean watching combat in a shooter doesn't exactly inspire me either, so I have no reason why people looking at combat played by someone else in an mmo is supposed to be any more inspiring.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
SnakeCharmer
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Posts: 3807


Reply #7643 on: June 29, 2011, 01:58:36 PM

If the story is good, the polish is there, and the community is solid, the combat won't be the issue. It's never been the issue that kept this type of game from being successful.

The story will be good.  Glorious, even.
The polish?  Maybe.
The community?  Total shit.

1.5 out of 3 ain't bad.

If we have enough Bat Country people sticking around past the initial month (a fairly big if), then community shouldn't be a problem.  The real key is not having to interact with too many randoms.

To be fair and in the interest of clarity, I was talking about TOR community at large and not BC.
Crumbs
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Likes: Politics, SWTOR, and CHINAJOY. SO MUCH CHINAJOY.


WWW
Reply #7644 on: June 29, 2011, 02:13:17 PM

That's not gut, that's what I see with my eyes. Its been 15 years I can recognize reskinned generic diku gameplay just fine without spending a month playing a given game. Any of you insulted by me telling you why this game is going to be trash are welcome to tell me what I'm wrong about.

If the story is good, the polish is there, and the community is solid, the combat won't be the issue. It's never been the issue that kept this type of game from being successful.

I know it's not the same people, but after reading this it strikes me as funny that a main gripe in the SWG thread was that combat sucked compared to the rest of the game.
Merusk
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Reply #7645 on: June 29, 2011, 02:32:36 PM

That's because the combat was a huge issue. It made nonsense changes to health bars while keeping the DIKU format. 

Had all characters attacked the same HP bar in SWG you wouldn't see, at a minimum, half of the gripes you do.  Even if the abilities used continued to drain your own health at the same time.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Paelos
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Posts: 27075

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #7646 on: June 29, 2011, 03:24:40 PM

The issue was the bars, not the combat.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
DraconianOne
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Posts: 2905


Reply #7647 on: June 29, 2011, 04:08:40 PM

That's not gut, that's what I see with my eyes. Its been 15 years I can recognize reskinned generic diku gameplay just fine without spending a month playing a given game. Any of you insulted by me telling you why this game is going to be trash are welcome to tell me what I'm wrong about.
-the loot tables will suck, how are you supposed to enjoy dressing your character when most classes have a very iconic and specific look? What is the loot progression on a light saber exactly?
-a jedi class that is balanced to the han solo class and the random clone special forces trooper is going to feel stupid, not as stupid as a support buffing jedi though.
-questing will be reinvented by adding more voice over (lulz) and giving storyline quests dialogue options.
-how taking a good rpg and gutting its gameplay (kotor) and replacing that gameplay with drab as fuck mmo gameplay is going to be great.

If I love rpg elements I'd rather play an rpg like ME3 or DA2. If I like mmo's I'd rather have lewtz and combat that is a little more amazing looking than what we had in 2001 with AO.

If your position is, I'll buy anything set in the Star Wars universe no matter how half baked the game is, go with fucking god but don't jump down my throat for pointing out this game is stupid.


A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Merusk
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Reply #7648 on: June 29, 2011, 04:11:07 PM

The issue was the bars, not the combat.

Yeah, I said that in a much more roundabout way, didn't I.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Rasix
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Posts: 15024

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #7649 on: June 29, 2011, 04:12:17 PM

We will not discuss HAM here.   Cthulu

-Rasix
tmp
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POW! Right in the Kisser!


Reply #7650 on: June 29, 2011, 04:41:37 PM

I dare someone to say that this game is worth playing because we have 3 dialogue options during quests. I fucking dare you.  Mob
That's basically what people been buying BioWare games for. Well, that and cybering the NPCs, but that's in too.
Lucas
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Posts: 3298

Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #7651 on: June 29, 2011, 05:52:17 PM

I think Devs already covered this in the recent past, but here's another article:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/29/ea-200-hours-of-gameplay-per-class-in-swtor/

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Montague
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Posts: 1297


Reply #7652 on: June 29, 2011, 11:10:02 PM

So basically, you ARE going with your gut and have nothing solid to base that on. Ok, remind me to ignore you on this subject from now on.

That's not gut, that's what I see with my eyes. Its been 15 years I can recognize reskinned generic diku gameplay just fine without spending a month playing a given game. Any of you insulted by me telling you why this game is going to be trash are welcome to tell me what I'm wrong about.
-the loot tables will suck, how are you supposed to enjoy dressing your character when most classes have a very iconic and specific look? What is the loot progression on a light saber exactly?
-a jedi class that is balanced to the han solo class and the random clone special forces trooper is going to feel stupid, not as stupid as a support buffing jedi though.
-questing will be reinvented by adding more voice over (lulz) and giving storyline quests dialogue options.
-how taking a good rpg and gutting its gameplay (kotor) and replacing that gameplay with drab as fuck mmo gameplay is going to be great.

If I love rpg elements I'd rather play an rpg like ME3 or DA2. If I like mmo's I'd rather have lewtz and combat that is a little more amazing looking than what we had in 2001 with AO.

If your position is, I'll buy anything set in the Star Wars universe no matter how half baked the game is, go with fucking god but don't jump down my throat for pointing out this game is stupid.

Seriously. Even worse, why would any company make an MMO out of an RTS. Talk about stupid...

When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross - Sinclair Lewis.

I can tell more than 1 fucktard at a time to stfu, have no fears. - WayAbvPar

We all have the God-given right to go to hell our own way.  Don't fuck with God's plan. - MahrinSkel
Surlyboi
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Posts: 10963

eat a bag of dicks


Reply #7653 on: June 29, 2011, 11:52:33 PM

So basically, you ARE going with your gut and have nothing solid to base that on. Ok, remind me to ignore you on this subject from now on.

That's not gut, that's what I see with my eyes. Its been 15 years I can recognize reskinned generic diku gameplay just fine without spending a month playing a given game. Any of you insulted by me telling you why this game is going to be trash are welcome to tell me what I'm wrong about.
-the loot tables will suck, how are you supposed to enjoy dressing your character when most classes have a very iconic and specific look? What is the loot progression on a light saber exactly?
-a jedi class that is balanced to the han solo class and the random clone special forces trooper is going to feel stupid, not as stupid as a support buffing jedi though.
-questing will be reinvented by adding more voice over (lulz) and giving storyline quests dialogue options.
-how taking a good rpg and gutting its gameplay (kotor) and replacing that gameplay with drab as fuck mmo gameplay is going to be great.

If I love rpg elements I'd rather play an rpg like ME3 or DA2. If I like mmo's I'd rather have lewtz and combat that is a little more amazing looking than what we had in 2001 with AO.

If your position is, I'll buy anything set in the Star Wars universe no matter how half baked the game is, go with fucking god but don't jump down my throat for pointing out this game is stupid.

That's a lot of words to say, "I've got nothing"

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Megrim
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Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.


Reply #7654 on: June 30, 2011, 01:00:37 AM

Oh wow, two at once. Working the shaft and balls there boys.

One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
Sjofn
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Truckasaurus Hands


Reply #7655 on: June 30, 2011, 01:41:40 AM

I dare someone to say that this game is worth playing because we have 3 dialogue options during quests. I fucking dare you.  Mob
That's basically what people been buying BioWare games for. Well, that and cybering the NPCs, but that's in too.

If there is a faux Han Solo for me to faux make out with, I am so there. I would even give up playing the smuggler for whatever class gets to make out with him.

God Save the Horn Players
Fordel
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Posts: 8306


Reply #7656 on: June 30, 2011, 01:42:30 AM

What if you can make out with Solo while BEING Solo?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Megrim
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Posts: 2512

Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.


Reply #7657 on: June 30, 2011, 02:18:55 AM

What if you can make out with Solo while BEING Solo?

That's not really going at it solo, now is it?

One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
rk47
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Posts: 6236

The Patron Saint of Radicalthons


Reply #7658 on: June 30, 2011, 02:19:19 AM

Then you'd be Hand Solo.  swamp poop

Talks of hate is premature at this point, but I've no interest in SWTOR. It's WoW in Space with some added in-game cinematics and RP choices between quests. Like a branching quest. Wheeee.
Let me just wait for something else.

Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
luckton
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Posts: 5947


Reply #7659 on: June 30, 2011, 04:30:09 AM

I think Devs already covered this in the recent past, but here's another article:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/29/ea-200-hours-of-gameplay-per-class-in-swtor/

If it's 200 hours of 'unique' gameplay, as in 'a Trooper is going to get 200 hours of gameplay/story that no other class is going to see EVAR', then yeah, wow...that's a lot.

Signs though are pointing to EA's fancy way of articulating things.  It may just be 200 hours of gameplay regardless.  Which, compared to a standard WoW character, isn't all that fancy.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

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jakonovski
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Posts: 4388


Reply #7660 on: June 30, 2011, 05:42:25 AM

Maybe they're adopting Tabula Rasa's endgame mechanics, ie. once you hit cap, content is done so just reroll.
Nebu
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Reply #7661 on: June 30, 2011, 06:08:49 AM

Maybe they're adopting Tabula Rasa's endgame mechanics, ie. once you hit cap, content is done so just reroll.

If that's their plan, they have zero shot at capturing much of WoW's market.  Current MMO gamers see the leveling mechanic as preparation for the endgame.  With no endgame, most won't understand the point of enjoying the journey.  Just look at the WoW forums.  If you post anything longer than two sentences, noone will bother to read the post.  You're expecting these people to get immersed in 200 hrs of story?  I think not. 

Blizzard has trained a whole generation of gamers to enjoy their skinner boxes.  Any deviation will cost them dearly in subscription numbers.  Without something to grind for, you really have little more than CoH on rails with a less interesting character generator. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Malakili
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Posts: 10596


Reply #7662 on: June 30, 2011, 06:15:54 AM

Maybe they're adopting Tabula Rasa's endgame mechanics, ie. once you hit cap, content is done so just reroll.

If that's their plan, they have zero shot at capturing much of WoW's market.  Current MMO gamers see the leveling mechanic as preparation for the endgame.  With no endgame, most won't understand the point of enjoying the journey.  Just look at the WoW forums.  If you post anything longer than two sentences, noone will bother to read the post.  You're expecting these people to get immersed in 200 hrs of story?  I think not. 

Blizzard has trained a whole generation of gamers to enjoy their skinner boxes.  Any deviation will cost them dearly in subscription numbers.  Without something to grind for, you really have little more than CoH on rails with a less interesting character generator. 

It seems like they have a pretty damned standard dungeons with bosses and loot game built into this.
Nebu
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Posts: 17613


Reply #7663 on: June 30, 2011, 06:20:21 AM

It seems like they have a pretty damned standard dungeons with bosses and loot game built into this.

The video footage that I've watched looked like pretty standard WoW-diku stuff in star warsy skins (4 person groups with tank/heals/dps/cc).  I though maybe jakonovski saw soemthing that I missed.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
DraconianOne
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Posts: 2905


Reply #7664 on: June 30, 2011, 06:27:23 AM

Nope - that's pretty spot on from what I can tell.

The differences with WoW are the conversation options, companions, crafting (in that you can get companions to do it) and romances. Plus I gathered that there would be a few solo instances a la LOTRO/GW.

End game is raids, pvp, dailies or re-roll.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
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