SWTOR

[VainEldritch]

The game is worth buying for the dialogue options. Options are good. You are insane.

Beat me to it... 

On the other hand, I'm having doubts of my own about SWTOR. The lack sandboxy goodness coupled by my renewed interest in actually playing Eve has put SWTOR off my "must try" list. Think I'll see the reaction on release before I buy.

[Murgos]

It's Hoax, he doesn't ever know anything he just asserts it very strongly.

*edit* this video was what sealed it for me, its not trying to pan the game at all but just look at it, what the fuck is exciting about that combat? How does it not look like <generic_mmo> reskinned with Star Wars trappings?

I dare someone to say that this game is worth playing because we have 3 dialogue options during quests. I fucking dare you. 

Do I really need to quote myself?

I mean it's nice that you have an opinion and all.  But, dude, it's your opinion no matter how strongly you assert it.  Trying to strawman it down to 'three dialog options' though?  That's pretty weak.  With that criteria no one should play Mass Effect or Dragon Age either.  I mean what would be the magic number of dialog options?  4, 5, 1000?  Oh, that's right it doesn't matter because it's a non-sense argument.

[Surlyboi]

It's Hoax, he doesn't ever know anything he just asserts it very strongly.

Hey look I'm sure that there will be people who like star wars but aren't fanboi enough to be insulted by the fact that there is an off tank jedi class and a buffing jedi class AND who want to play what is essentially a half baked single player RPG with other people despite the fact that the combat systems are unresponsive diku drivel (same as they ever are) because they like being able to auto attack and auto pilot AND don't care that lewtz really aren't as cool in a scifi let alone star wars setting.

Those people might like it more than Aion. Really though who is watching 10 minutes of gameplay and thinking: "can't wait to buy it!"

What the fuck is the appeal? That they are shoving a square IP into a round hole? It has SW music? Laser swords?

*edit* this video was what sealed it for me, its not trying to pan the game at all but just look at it, what the fuck is exciting about that combat? How does it not look like <generic_mmo> reskinned with Star Wars trappings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL4il3SZ_Hc

I dare someone to say that this game is worth playing because we have 3 dialogue options during quests. I fucking dare you. 

So basically, you ARE going with your gut and have nothing solid to base that on. Ok, remind me to ignore you on this subject from now on.

[Malakili]

What the fuck is the appeal?

I was more or less of this opinion until I got over being bitter the game was not SWG 2.0 (or, 1.0, or well you get the point).  Then i realized for the box price I'll get at least a KOTOR game out of it, and if the MMO parts end up decent all the better.   This is a new approach for me, so we'll see how it goes.  So thats the appeal to me.

[Hoax]

So basically, you ARE going with your gut and have nothing solid to base that on. Ok, remind me to ignore you on this subject from now on.

That's not gut, that's what I see with my eyes. Its been 15 years I can recognize reskinned generic diku gameplay just fine without spending a month playing a given game. Any of you insulted by me telling you why this game is going to be trash are welcome to tell me what I'm wrong about.
-the loot tables will suck, how are you supposed to enjoy dressing your character when most classes have a very iconic and specific look? What is the loot progression on a light saber exactly?
-a jedi class that is balanced to the han solo class and the random clone special forces trooper is going to feel stupid, not as stupid as a support buffing jedi though.
-questing will be reinvented by adding more voice over (lulz) and giving storyline quests dialogue options.
-how taking a good rpg and gutting its gameplay (kotor) and replacing that gameplay with drab as fuck mmo gameplay is going to be great.

If I love rpg elements I'd rather play an rpg like ME3 or DA2. If I like mmo's I'd rather have lewtz and combat that is a little more amazing looking than what we had in 2001 with AO.

If your position is, I'll buy anything set in the Star Wars universe no matter how half baked the game is, go with fucking god but don't jump down my throat for pointing out this game is stupid.

[Sky]

Because KotOR was all about the awesome combat and the loot was amazing.

[Paelos]

That's not gut, that's what I see with my eyes. Its been 15 years I can recognize reskinned generic diku gameplay just fine without spending a month playing a given game. Any of you insulted by me telling you why this game is going to be trash are welcome to tell me what I'm wrong about.

If the story is good, the polish is there, and the community is solid, the combat won't be the issue. It's never been the issue that kept this type of game from being successful.

[sam, an eggplant]

Because KotOR was all about the awesome combat and the loot was amazing.

Exactly. Diku combat is old hat to us these days, but keep in mind that combat in KOTOR was limited to queueing a few buff or damage spells and banging on the target with your lightsabre. It wasn't tactical at all; it wasn't anything like mass effect 2's combat on harder modes. SWTOR's combat is much better than KOTOR's.

[SnakeCharmer]

If the story is good, the polish is there, and the community is solid, the combat won't be the issue. It's never been the issue that kept this type of game from being successful.

The story will be good.  Glorious, even.
The polish?  Maybe.
The community?  Total shit.

1.5 out of 3 ain't bad.

[Malakili]

If the story is good, the polish is there, and the community is solid, the combat won't be the issue. It's never been the issue that kept this type of game from being successful.

The story will be good.  Glorious, even.
The polish?  Maybe.
The community?  Total shit.

1.5 out of 3 ain't bad.

If we have enough Bat Country people sticking around past the initial month (a fairly big if), then community shouldn't be a problem.  The real key is not having to interact with too many randoms.

[Reg]

Hah I seriously wouldn't count on much of a Bat Country presence past the first month.  EVE is the only F13 game that has lasted so far.

[Samprimary]

*edit* this video was what sealed it for me, its not trying to pan the game at all but just look at it, what the fuck is exciting about that combat? How does it not look like <generic_mmo> reskinned with Star Wars trappings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL4il3SZ_Hc

I dare someone to say that this game is worth playing because we have 3 dialogue options during quests. I fucking dare you. 

I could tell pretty easily watching that video that the combat difficulty was tuned way down. Probably on account of the fact that the bioware event holders knew that it was going to be played by scrubs who hadn't even gotten to do the tutorial section of the game yet and adjusted the challenge accordingly. That way, people could trial the game going 'um, let's try this button! and how about this button!' all Out Of This World tank combat scene, without wiping over and over again.

In addition, even had the combat NOT been dialed down to derp challenge level, you're watching combat. You're watching someone else fight in an MMO. That is pretty much always boring as shit. It does not speak to how actually entertaining or engrossing the act of actually playing the game is. Remember that. Ergh, actually, watching this video is more painful than normal because the Jedi Guardian really does not know what he's doing at all.

Also, dare accepted. Quest dialogue trees work.

[Paelos]

I mean watching combat in a shooter doesn't exactly inspire me either, so I have no reason why people looking at combat played by someone else in an mmo is supposed to be any more inspiring.

[SnakeCharmer]

If the story is good, the polish is there, and the community is solid, the combat won't be the issue. It's never been the issue that kept this type of game from being successful.

The story will be good.  Glorious, even.
The polish?  Maybe.
The community?  Total shit.

1.5 out of 3 ain't bad.

If we have enough Bat Country people sticking around past the initial month (a fairly big if), then community shouldn't be a problem.  The real key is not having to interact with too many randoms.

To be fair and in the interest of clarity, I was talking about TOR community at large and not BC.

[Crumbs]

That's not gut, that's what I see with my eyes. Its been 15 years I can recognize reskinned generic diku gameplay just fine without spending a month playing a given game. Any of you insulted by me telling you why this game is going to be trash are welcome to tell me what I'm wrong about.

If the story is good, the polish is there, and the community is solid, the combat won't be the issue. It's never been the issue that kept this type of game from being successful.

I know it's not the same people, but after reading this it strikes me as funny that a main gripe in the SWG thread was that combat sucked compared to the rest of the game.

[Merusk]

That's because the combat was a huge issue. It made nonsense changes to health bars while keeping the DIKU format. 

Had all characters attacked the same HP bar in SWG you wouldn't see, at a minimum, half of the gripes you do.  Even if the abilities used continued to drain your own health at the same time.

[Paelos]

The issue was the bars, not the combat.

[DraconianOne]

That's not gut, that's what I see with my eyes. Its been 15 years I can recognize reskinned generic diku gameplay just fine without spending a month playing a given game. Any of you insulted by me telling you why this game is going to be trash are welcome to tell me what I'm wrong about.
-the loot tables will suck, how are you supposed to enjoy dressing your character when most classes have a very iconic and specific look? What is the loot progression on a light saber exactly?
-a jedi class that is balanced to the han solo class and the random clone special forces trooper is going to feel stupid, not as stupid as a support buffing jedi though.
-questing will be reinvented by adding more voice over (lulz) and giving storyline quests dialogue options.
-how taking a good rpg and gutting its gameplay (kotor) and replacing that gameplay with drab as fuck mmo gameplay is going to be great.

If I love rpg elements I'd rather play an rpg like ME3 or DA2. If I like mmo's I'd rather have lewtz and combat that is a little more amazing looking than what we had in 2001 with AO.

If your position is, I'll buy anything set in the Star Wars universe no matter how half baked the game is, go with fucking god but don't jump down my throat for pointing out this game is stupid.

[Merusk]

The issue was the bars, not the combat.

Yeah, I said that in a much more roundabout way, didn't I.

[Rasix]

We will not discuss HAM here.  

[tmp]

I dare someone to say that this game is worth playing because we have 3 dialogue options during quests. I fucking dare you. 

That's basically what people been buying BioWare games for. Well, that and cybering the NPCs, but that's in too.

[Lucas]

I think Devs already covered this in the recent past, but here's another article:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/29/ea-200-hours-of-gameplay-per-class-in-swtor/

[Montague]

So basically, you ARE going with your gut and have nothing solid to base that on. Ok, remind me to ignore you on this subject from now on.

That's not gut, that's what I see with my eyes. Its been 15 years I can recognize reskinned generic diku gameplay just fine without spending a month playing a given game. Any of you insulted by me telling you why this game is going to be trash are welcome to tell me what I'm wrong about.
-the loot tables will suck, how are you supposed to enjoy dressing your character when most classes have a very iconic and specific look? What is the loot progression on a light saber exactly?
-a jedi class that is balanced to the han solo class and the random clone special forces trooper is going to feel stupid, not as stupid as a support buffing jedi though.
-questing will be reinvented by adding more voice over (lulz) and giving storyline quests dialogue options.
-how taking a good rpg and gutting its gameplay (kotor) and replacing that gameplay with drab as fuck mmo gameplay is going to be great.

If I love rpg elements I'd rather play an rpg like ME3 or DA2. If I like mmo's I'd rather have lewtz and combat that is a little more amazing looking than what we had in 2001 with AO.

If your position is, I'll buy anything set in the Star Wars universe no matter how half baked the game is, go with fucking god but don't jump down my throat for pointing out this game is stupid.

Seriously. Even worse, why would any company make an MMO out of an RTS. Talk about stupid...

[Surlyboi]

So basically, you ARE going with your gut and have nothing solid to base that on. Ok, remind me to ignore you on this subject from now on.

That's not gut, that's what I see with my eyes. Its been 15 years I can recognize reskinned generic diku gameplay just fine without spending a month playing a given game. Any of you insulted by me telling you why this game is going to be trash are welcome to tell me what I'm wrong about.
-the loot tables will suck, how are you supposed to enjoy dressing your character when most classes have a very iconic and specific look? What is the loot progression on a light saber exactly?
-a jedi class that is balanced to the han solo class and the random clone special forces trooper is going to feel stupid, not as stupid as a support buffing jedi though.
-questing will be reinvented by adding more voice over (lulz) and giving storyline quests dialogue options.
-how taking a good rpg and gutting its gameplay (kotor) and replacing that gameplay with drab as fuck mmo gameplay is going to be great.

If I love rpg elements I'd rather play an rpg like ME3 or DA2. If I like mmo's I'd rather have lewtz and combat that is a little more amazing looking than what we had in 2001 with AO.

If your position is, I'll buy anything set in the Star Wars universe no matter how half baked the game is, go with fucking god but don't jump down my throat for pointing out this game is stupid.

That's a lot of words to say, "I've got nothing"

[Megrim]

Oh wow, two at once. Working the shaft and balls there boys.

[Sjofn]

I dare someone to say that this game is worth playing because we have 3 dialogue options during quests. I fucking dare you. 

That's basically what people been buying BioWare games for. Well, that and cybering the NPCs, but that's in too.

If there is a faux Han Solo for me to faux make out with, I am so there. I would even give up playing the smuggler for whatever class gets to make out with him.

[Fordel]

What if you can make out with Solo while BEING Solo?

[Megrim]

What if you can make out with Solo while BEING Solo?

That's not really going at it solo, now is it?

[rk47]

Then you'd be Hand Solo.  

Talks of hate is premature at this point, but I've no interest in SWTOR. It's WoW in Space with some added in-game cinematics and RP choices between quests. Like a branching quest. Wheeee.
Let me just wait for something else.

[luckton]

I think Devs already covered this in the recent past, but here's another article:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/29/ea-200-hours-of-gameplay-per-class-in-swtor/

If it's 200 hours of 'unique' gameplay, as in 'a Trooper is going to get 200 hours of gameplay/story that no other class is going to see EVAR', then yeah, wow...that's a lot.

Signs though are pointing to EA's fancy way of articulating things.  It may just be 200 hours of gameplay regardless.  Which, compared to a standard WoW character, isn't all that fancy.

[jakonovski]

Maybe they're adopting Tabula Rasa's endgame mechanics, ie. once you hit cap, content is done so just reroll.

[Nebu]

Maybe they're adopting Tabula Rasa's endgame mechanics, ie. once you hit cap, content is done so just reroll.

If that's their plan, they have zero shot at capturing much of WoW's market.  Current MMO gamers see the leveling mechanic as preparation for the endgame.  With no endgame, most won't understand the point of enjoying the journey.  Just look at the WoW forums.  If you post anything longer than two sentences, noone will bother to read the post.  You're expecting these people to get immersed in 200 hrs of story?  I think not. 

Blizzard has trained a whole generation of gamers to enjoy their skinner boxes.  Any deviation will cost them dearly in subscription numbers.  Without something to grind for, you really have little more than CoH on rails with a less interesting character generator. 

[Malakili]

Maybe they're adopting Tabula Rasa's endgame mechanics, ie. once you hit cap, content is done so just reroll.

If that's their plan, they have zero shot at capturing much of WoW's market.  Current MMO gamers see the leveling mechanic as preparation for the endgame.  With no endgame, most won't understand the point of enjoying the journey.  Just look at the WoW forums.  If you post anything longer than two sentences, noone will bother to read the post.  You're expecting these people to get immersed in 200 hrs of story?  I think not. 

Blizzard has trained a whole generation of gamers to enjoy their skinner boxes.  Any deviation will cost them dearly in subscription numbers.  Without something to grind for, you really have little more than CoH on rails with a less interesting character generator. 

It seems like they have a pretty damned standard dungeons with bosses and loot game built into this.

[Nebu]

It seems like they have a pretty damned standard dungeons with bosses and loot game built into this.

The video footage that I've watched looked like pretty standard WoW-diku stuff in star warsy skins (4 person groups with tank/heals/dps/cc).  I though maybe jakonovski saw soemthing that I missed.

[DraconianOne]

Nope - that's pretty spot on from what I can tell.

The differences with WoW are the conversation options, companions, crafting (in that you can get companions to do it) and romances. Plus I gathered that there would be a few solo instances a la LOTRO/GW.

End game is raids, pvp, dailies or re-roll.