SWTOR

[Lucas]

The Death Star was a Flashpoint. Luke and Obi-wan spent a few minutes LFG in the Mos Eisley Cantina where they enlisted the aid of Han Solo and Chewbacca. Together, they infiltrated a moon-sized battle station to rescue Princess Leia. Things didn't go quite as they expected; difficult choices were made along the way. That's a Flashpoint in a nutshell.

 

 

Yeah, the LFG bit made me laugh but if you think about it, the analogy is not *that* off the mark...No?

[Paelos]

It's just an example of how MMOG mechanics will suck the soul out of any story. I mean no matter how much they spout shit like this:

Ever found yourself wondering, “What am I doing here?” or “Why the blazes am I fighting these green guys?” Has it ever felt like a glorified slot machine? Is your screen filled with so many numbers that you forget you’re supposed to be having fun? Our goal is to make sure that never happens. We also have to contend with your incredible class story. In Star Wars: The Old Republic, you come to closely identify with your character. You should never feel like a cog in a loot-generation machine – you’re a champion of the Sith or a hero of the Republic.

I have a hard time believing it when you throw MMOG players into your world.

[Tannhauser]

It's a fair point.  I just canceled my WoW account for this reason.  When I play WoW now, I feel like I'm in a simulation of WoW where orcs run up, impale themselves on my blade and throw a sack of loot at my face.

So yeah, I could do with a cool story as long as it's not TOO on rails like WoW has become.
Fuck Six Flags over Azeroth.

[Reg]

I expect SWTOR will be at least as much "on rails" as WoW is currently.

[SnakeCharmer]

It's just an example of how MMOG mechanics will suck the soul out of any story. I mean no matter how much they spout shit like this:

Ever found yourself wondering, “What am I doing here?” or “Why the blazes am I fighting these green guys?” Has it ever felt like a glorified slot machine? Is your screen filled with so many numbers that you forget you’re supposed to be having fun? Our goal is to make sure that never happens. We also have to contend with your incredible class story. In Star Wars: The Old Republic, you come to closely identify with your character. You should never feel like a cog in a loot-generation machine – you’re a champion of the Sith or a hero of the Republic.

I have a hard time believing it when you throw MMOG players into your world.

I don't know.  If the story/writers can make me care about my story / character half as much as I do about my garden variety John Sheppard in a single player Mass Effect 1 and 2, I'd say they did a fantastic job.  My approach to TOR is going to be a single player game with co-op with my friends and less of an MMO.  It's how I've looked at it from day 1 anyway.  And if I can team up with some people that are fun to play with first, and good players a distant fifth, I'll be happy.

[Malakili]

The Death Star was a Flashpoint. Luke and Obi-wan spent a few minutes LFG in the Mos Eisley Cantina where they enlisted the aid of Han Solo and Chewbacca. Together, they infiltrated a moon-sized battle station to rescue Princess Leia. Things didn't go quite as they expected; difficult choices were made along the way. That's a Flashpoint in a nutshell.

 

 

Yeah, the LFG bit made me laugh but if you think about it, the analogy is not *that* off the mark...No?

How cool is the  "Death Star" going to be to run the 20th time?  I get what they mean, don't get me wrong, but I'd just prefer to keep this kind of stuff out of MMOs.  I bought WoW Cataclysm against my better judgement and while its amusing and fun (90%+ of which is due to the fact that I'm hanging out with old friends and guildmates I haven't talked to in a while), the game itself isn't really all that enchanting.  It seems like SWTOR is trying to take it even farther.  I think in some sense though, WoW has embraced its themepark nature SO MUCH that you can sort of just roll with it as a theme park.  SWTOR seems like a theme park that is trying to disguise itself as a srs bzns RPG, it just isn't going to end well in my opinion

[Reg]

I don't consider any dungeon run over and over again just for microscopic equipment upgrades to be any fun. It's why I don't care if they have an addictive WoW style endgame. Like Snakecharmer I'll happily play it solo and group with friends once in a while.

[Lakov_Sanite]

The Death Star was a Flashpoint. Luke and Obi-wan spent a few minutes LFG in the Mos Eisley Cantina where they enlisted the aid of Han Solo and Chewbacca. Together, they infiltrated a moon-sized battle station to rescue Princess Leia. Things didn't go quite as they expected; difficult choices were made along the way. That's a Flashpoint in a nutshell.

 

 

Needs to be a childhood being raped emoticon

[UnSub]

The Death Star was a Flashpoint. Luke and Obi-wan spent a few minutes LFG in the Mos Eisley Cantina where they enlisted the aid of Han Solo and Chewbacca. Together, they infiltrated a moon-sized battle station to rescue Princess Leia. Things didn't go quite as they expected; difficult choices were made along the way. That's a Flashpoint in a nutshell.

 

 

Obi-Wan: WTF guyz? I stealth the main objective while u end up aggroing the entire base, then I tank the main boss mob and u fuckin run for the exit and I die and u guyz end up greeding all the loot. Fuck u, I'm nvr teaming withyou ever again.

Han: Cry maor newb.

Luke: U sucked as a jedi class. I'm gonna respec to jedi and show u how its done.

[Malakili]

I don't consider any dungeon run over and over again just for microscopic equipment upgrades to be any fun. It's why I don't care if they have an addictive WoW style endgame. Like Snakecharmer I'll happily play it solo and group with friends once in a while.

My point is more along the lines that, even if its fun to do once or twice (or 100 times for all the difference it makes), how the hell do I reconcile doing it more than once with a game in which my character's "story" is supposed to matter so much?  You can't have it both ways in my opinion.

[Reg]

Repeatedly doing dungeons that advance the story doesn't make sense to me either. Unless it's a matter of doing it over and over until you succeed. I guess I'll just wait and see how they justify it.

[UnSub]

Repeatedly doing dungeons that advance the story doesn't make sense to me either.

Luke ran the Death Star dungeon twice, once as DPS and once as the tank.

[Ashamanchill]

Actually he ran through the first time on normal. The second time it was on heroic and had an extra boss.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Actually he ran through the first time on normal. The second time it was on heroic and had an extra boss.

The first death star was merely a setback.

[UnSub]

Actually he ran through the first time on normal. The second time it was on heroic and had an extra boss.

Good thing the first boss had such a weak resistance to Charm Monster.

[Lucas]

Ok, ok, please STOP, I beg thee  Now I think I get the request for a child rape emoticon from a few posts back. Damn me for posting the original link, hahahah :D

[Lucas]

...Thanks 
---

So, anyway: two developer posts from the official forums. First one is from Georg Zoeller, Principal Lead Combat Designer, posting a reply in a thread called "Preventing of one side Dominating".

Original thread:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5375488


And finally, because we are never nerdy when talking about Star Wars, here is Daniel Erickson (Lead Writer) chimin' in a discussion about the "evilness" of the Sith (and related issues) and how that might integrate within the specific game story and choices, in a thread called "A concern...".

Original thread:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=259718

[eldaec]

Repeatedly doing dungeons that advance the story doesn't make sense to me either. Unless it's a matter of doing it over and over until you succeed. I guess I'll just wait and see how they justify it.

I honestly think their intent is that the content generation outpaces the rate you complete it, so you don't run story dungeons over and over.

It obviously won't work out that way for everyone.

[Sky]

Since I read it as someone who never hit the level cap in EQ2 (they kept raising it!), I get kind of excited about stuff like that. MMO companies are indeed capable of outpacing my content consumption rate. Too bad for the rabid consumer, all kinds of awesome for the slowbies...if the game can make enough dough to keep churning it out, of course.

[UnSub]

And, to give you some peace of mind - in Game Testing so far, it seems like the supporters of Empire and Republic are very evenly matched, at least within the statistical margin of error at this point.

Unless SWOR testers have been given the full game and said, "Go for it - play how you like" then there are so many factors that can go into how players choose factions in beta that the above statement runs the risk of being (at best) incredibly naive.

[Draegan]

And, to give you some peace of mind - in Game Testing so far, it seems like the supporters of Empire and Republic are very evenly matched, at least within the statistical margin of error at this point.

Unless SWOR testers have been given the full game and said, "Go for it - play how you like" then there are so many factors that can go into how players choose factions in beta that the above statement runs the risk of being (at best) incredibly naive.

I think calling them naive is an incredible understatement. 

[SnakeCharmer]

Gordon Walton (studio head) left Bioware Austin.  I can't really see this as a good thing for the game....

[Riggswolfe]

Gordon Walton (studio head) left Bioware Austin.  I can't really see this as a good thing for the game....

Well, it certainly doesn't bode well. Has there been a press release for us to analyse for clues? Is he seeking new oppurtunities?

[Ingmar]

He went directly to a new job (at Playdom) so I don't think it is a case of him getting fired or anything.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33051/BioWares_Walton_Leaves_To_Join_Playdom_Austin.php

[Merusk]

Dude went where the money's at after all the interesting work on his current title was done, not surprising.   The course is set and while the game may not even be in beta it's not like they're going to suddenly say "well, now it's SimBeru 2.0" or som other wacky 180.  All that's left for SWG at this point is finalizing things and game system tweaks to actually get a game out there.

IIRC he did the same thing when JTL was about to release and shortly after The Sims first released.  They didn't need him and it obviously wasn't interesting to him anymore.

[Sky]

I'm just wondering when all this talent moving to 'social gaming' is going to actually create something fun. What a circle jerk.

[ghost]

I'm just wondering when all this talent moving to 'social gaming' is going to actually create something fun. What a circle jerk.

You don't like Farmville?

[Outlawedprod]

I'm just wondering when all this talent moving to 'social gaming' is going to actually create something fun. What a circle jerk.

You don't like Farmville?

Well maybe all they need is Jedi and Sith to innovate and own the market :)

http://darthhater.com/2011/02/16/goldman-sachs-technology-and-internet-conference/

So, first off let me start off by saying I've got the utmost respect for World of Warcraft. I was once a World of Warcraft player. I play a lot of other things now. It's one of the greatest products ever invented. It's probably the most profitable individual entertainment property every built. Um, we're going right at it. We want to take share; we want a leadership position here. And our product is innovative in a number of ways. But let me start by the observation by saying, BioWare is probably the highest average rated developer in the history of games in addition the history of RPG's which is a great starting place.

When you come after a product like World of Warcraft, which you could argue, it's got its own, you know share of foe British dark fantasy, you know with broad swords and chain mail. Lots of products have come up with exactly that fictional composition and attempted to take them down. But their going up against a superior product with an installed, kind of a very loyal base, haven't been able to knock them, move them very much at all. Interesting enough, the same type of dark fantasy lives in the Star Wars universe. Except it's lightsabers versus broad swords. And instead of, you know, riding your steed you've got a spaceship. We actually think that's the exactly the right amount of innovation to bring to this in terms of fictional center.

Yes I know this is for investors but we can still enjoy it for its own humor.  Although maybe I would get worried if he starts talking about adding servers a few months in =p

[Lakov_Sanite]

First off his grammar makes my head hurt.

Secondly innovation = swords and elves but like, in space. 

[SnakeCharmer]

It's a transcript of what he said, not put into words in an email or anything.

[Sky]

You don't like Farmville?

Is that the game where you find the setting to ignore all updates from people?

[ghost]

That would be it.  I thought that was the magnus opus of social gaming.  

Edit:  Just for clarity, I think Farmville is awful.  My comment was Kermit green

[Stabs]

The Old Republic was slated to launch this spring but is now due expected later this calendar year, at some point after EA's next fiscal year begins on April 1.

I didn't notice this before but this seems oddly apt (sorry for the slight necro).

It's April 1st and EA are announcing they expect 5 million subs and to all be able to swim in gold-plated money pools when SWTOR launches. Perfect!

[Riggswolfe]

First off his grammar makes my head hurt.

Secondly innovation = swords and elves but like, in space. 

Thirdly, Star Wars is dark fantasy? Is he on drugs?

[Ingmar]

First off his grammar makes my head hurt.

Secondly innovation = swords and elves but like, in space. 

Thirdly, Star Wars is dark fantasy? Is he on drugs?

KOTOR2 qualfies. 'course, that wasn't Bioware.