SWTOR

[Reg]

Have there been any Bioware stories you liked in the past? You don't seem to have been very impressed with Dragon Age.

[Lantyssa]

Most Bioware games I enjoy quite a bit.  Dragon Age being the one recent exception, mainly because it felt very generic on top of many forced plot points which gave me no course of action close to how I wanted to handle the situation.

[Reg]

Oh fair enough. I wasn't sure if you were like Margalis and just basically hated everything about Bioware and western style RPGs.

If they've really created unique storylines for each character class I'm willing to accept that some of them will be better than others.  But if I find myself playing through the same crappy quests as a storm trooper as I would as a Jedi I'll be pretty furious.

[fuser]

But if I find myself playing through the same crappy quests as a storm trooper as I would as a Jedi I'll be pretty furious.

Don't worry Jedi's has to fight "dark foozles" 

[kildorn]

But if I find myself playing through the same crappy quests as a storm trooper as I would as a Jedi I'll be pretty furious.

Don't worry Jedi's has to fight "dark foozles" 

Whenever a Jedi kills a mob, it's face becomes that of the jedi.

[Surlyboi]

Vandar, didn't you play KOTOR?

is that who that is?

I never played kotor.  Guess I probably should at some point.

Yeah, you should. For the story anyway. The game itself hasn't aged all that well.

[ghost]

KOTOR is still pretty fun.  KOTOR II, not so much. 

[Ingmar]

KOTOR is still pretty fun.  KOTOR II, not so much. 

IMO if you ignore the last 30m KOTOr2 is a superior game, and I quite liked the original.

[Outlawedprod]

KOTOR is still pretty fun.  KOTOR II, not so much. 

IMO if you ignore the last 30m KOTOr2 is a superior game, and I quite liked the original.

I really liked Kreia in Kotor2.  Some of the dark side stuff in the mid game had great responses from her.

http://www.swtor.com/media/screens/taral-v
So basically a dungeon.  It certainly looks cool with one caveat: "Jedi Prisoner."    At least give the guy a name!  I was kind of hoping we would lessen the amount of scrub NPCs in more premium content like dungeons.  Speaking of names these dungeons are called  http://www.swtor.com/info/systems/flashpoints

Hopefully there will be a long scripted event at the beginning of the dungeon which some player can go RP mode on like the Coliseum in Wotlk when players are sick of seeing it for the 20th time.

[Sheepherder]

I'm not advocating corpse runs, but I'd totally be for a little sign over your character's head that says "dumbass" for 20 minutes or so.

OIC.  Then we're totally on the same page.  Shame is a very effective tool.

The only death penalty in EVE is your ship, and the entire economy of EVE is based around the idea that your corp should be able to replace what you fly.

FIFY.

[Simond]

KOTOR is still pretty fun.  KOTOR II, not so much. 

KOTORII + fanpatch fixing most of the cut stuff = better than KOTOR.
There, I said it.

[tmp]

I prefered KotOR 2 over the first game even in its original form. The all-broken and hallucination-like finale somehow felt fitting with what the mental state of the protagonist had to be at that point.

[Surlyboi]

I'm not advocating corpse runs, but I'd totally be for a little sign over your character's head that says "dumbass" for 20 minutes or so.

OIC.  Then we're totally on the same page.  Shame is a very effective tool.

Sometimes. There are those that would wear the dumbass tag as a sign of honor.

I actually kind of salute them too.

[Sky]

KOTOR is still pretty fun.  KOTOR II, not so much. 

KOTORII + fanpatch fixing most of the cut stuff = better than KOTOR.
There, I said it.

Oh gods, now I'm having Kill Dashus fantasies.

I really need to finally play KotOR2 with Stoney's mod some day.

[Velorath]

SWTOR delayed; Would be profitable with 500,000 subs.

I've also seen rumors on a number of sites that September is being targeted as the new release date.

BioWare's Force-powered MMORPG Star Wars: The Old Republic has been delayed, publisher EA revealed yesterday while announcing its earnings for the financial quarter. The Old Republic was slated to launch this spring but is now due expected later this calendar year, at some point after EA's next fiscal year begins on April 1.

EA CEO John Riccitiello fielded a number of questions about the MMO during a Q&A session for investors, touching on where EA aims to position The Old Republic in the marketplace, the number of subscribers it hopes for, and those dastardly "gamer blogs."

"Half a million subscribers for the game is substantially profitable but it's not the kind of thing that we would write home about," Riccitiello revealed. "Anything north of a million subscribers is a very profitable business."

"It's our view that we can be very successful without fundamentally challenging the market leader because we think we'll probably hit the smaller competitors harder when we get out there," Riccitiello said, referring to Blizzard's World of Warcraft, which boasts 12 million 'subscribers.' "Of course, we have no particular ambition to be a distant number two. Our ambitions are higher than that, but we throttle back a little bit relative to our financial projections."

EA CFO Eric Brown noted in the presentation's prepared comments that "EA is incurring significant development costs for the Star Wars MMO," but did not go into specifics.

Riccitiello also spoke on development costs, though only to dismiss reports from what he called "gamer blogs" about how much EA is rumoured to have spent on the MMO. He was doubtless referring to the widespread coverage received last year by 'EA Louse,' an anonymous blogger who claimed to have worked at BioWare's sister studio Mythic on Warhammer Online. According to EA Louse, Bioware had "spent more money making the Old Republic than James Cameron spent on Avatar ... More than $300 million!"

"One is there's been a fair amount of talk on various blogs, describing spends that are vastly higher than anything we've ever put in place," Riccitiello said. "So don't read gamer blogs as having any substance. Some of them bring a chuckle but they also bring a frustration for those that are being responsible in the management of EA's R&D dollars when they read sort of falsehoods out in the press."

[UnSub]

SWTOR delayed; Would be profitable with 500,000 subs.

"So don't read gamer blogs as having any substance. Some of them bring a chuckle but they also bring a frustration for those that are being responsible in the management of EA's R&D dollars when they read sort of falsehoods out in the press."

There's a very easy way of clearing up those falsehoods - announce the cost yourself.

But regardless of that: EA still requires SWOR to be at least the second biggest P2P MMO in the West or face a big financial failure.

[Paelos]

Given that EA is public I would imagine they would have to list how much R&D is in the game in their financials this year.

Also, that 500,000 break even point could mean anything. What do they consider a subscriber? Is it someone who plays the game 1 month? 3 months? A year?

At $15 a month:

1 month = $7,500,000
3 months = $22,500,000
12 months = $90,000,000

Personally, I think they are relying on an average of 500,000 subscribers over what they believe to be the competitive life of the game, which is probably 3 years as an estimate. Which in that case you're looking at a $270,000,000 R&D cost, pretty close to the number listed.

When I looked at the financials I noticed a dramatic swing in R&D total costs over the years. Bioware was picked up about 5 months before FY2008 when costs were slightly on the rise. In FY2009, R&D costs suddenly jumped $214M to their highest mark in 5 years. Was it all SWTOR? Absolutely not, but it's not just a coincidence either. It's also not a coincidence that they fired people like crazy in 2010.

[squirrel]

I don't think public companies have to disclose R&D costs at a product level, although I know many do. I thought it was only required for discrete business units that meet certain criteria - I could be completely wrong though it's been a while since I did finance.

[Paelos]

I don't think public companies have to disclose R&D costs at a product level, although I know many do. I thought it was only required for discrete business units that meet certain criteria - I could be completely wrong though it's been a while since I did finance.

They don't unless they consider it to be a lost cause.

[Velorath]

Also, that 500,000 break even point could mean anything. What do they consider a subscriber? Is it someone who plays the game 1 month? 3 months? A year?

It doesn't matter how long each person subs as long as each person who leaves the game is replaced by someone else.

[Ingmar]

500k wasn't a 'break even' point, they said 'substantially profitable.'

[squirrel]

I don't think public companies have to disclose R&D costs at a product level, although I know many do. I thought it was only required for discrete business units that meet certain criteria - I could be completely wrong though it's been a while since I did finance.

They don't unless they consider it to be a lost cause.

Ah yeah - and that's generally due to the fact that most R&D is capitalized isn't it? So if it can't meet the deferred expectations I has to be reconciled back onto the income statement as expense? Not that it's relevant heh - feel free to ignore the derail.

[Paelos]

500k wasn't a 'break even' point, they said 'substantially profitable.'

Yet in the same sentence he mentions it's not anything to write home about, and they want a million.

In pure reading between the lines, that means, yeah we'd be making about $10,000,000 at that point and be able to walk away. That's substantial, but pretty close to the break even if you're tossing down $250M on development. At a million subs, you're doubling the investment.

At least that's how I took it.

[SnakeCharmer]

I'm still trying to figure out where they said it was delayed.  It's been Spring '11 since whenever they announced it last year.  The 'article' just says after April '11, which is, well... still spring?

[UnSub]

500k wasn't a 'break even' point, they said 'substantially profitable.'

Yet in the same sentence he mentions it's not anything to write home about, and they want a million.

In pure reading between the lines, that means, yeah we'd be making about $10,000,000 at that point and be able to walk away. That's substantial, but pretty close to the break even if you're tossing down $250M on development. At a million subs, you're doubling the investment.

At least that's how I took it.

I wonder if they were just considering initial development costs at that figure, or were including some form of content development / further support as part of the "500k is profitable" figure.

[Velorath]

I'm still trying to figure out where they said it was delayed.  It's been Spring '11 since whenever they announced it last year.  The 'article' just says after April '11, which is, well... still spring?

They've gone from saying that they're targeting Spring 2011 to saying it will be out sometime after March but before the end of 2011.  Also, if the game were to be coming out in April, I'd imagine they'd already have a firm date at this point that they be using in the marketing.  To be fair, the Spring 2011 date was something Riccitiello mentioned over a year ago in a conference call as the date that was being targeted, and even for single player games, that's pretty far out to pin a release date, let alone for an MMO.

[Paelos]

I wonder if they were just considering initial development costs at that figure, or were including some form of content development / further support as part of the "500k is profitable" figure.

I'm pretty sure they are just referring to gross profit without regard to any more incurred overhead. I just found it interesting that when they acquired the project, R&D costs crested 1.3 billion dollars, up from a billion before the acquisition.

It lends more credence to the theory, and they fact that they won't even disclose a budget on the project. If someone is trying to damage your corp by saying you're wasting money on something that's spinning out of control, the best press release would be "That's a total fabrication, we've spent less than $XXX on R&D for that project. Anything that person reported should be treated with total disregard." In essence, you could bust them on a lie and discredit the whole thing. The fact they just skirt the issue with no figures at all make me believe their sunk costs are very high.

[ghost]

"Profitable" implies some knowledge and consideration of overhead expenses versus gross revenue. 

[Paelos]

"Profitable" implies some knowledge and consideration of overhead expenses versus gross revenue. 

That's why I said gross profit. The variable expenses associated with the cost of production should be considered. Adding in more overhead shouldn't.

[Ingmar]

I wonder if they were just considering initial development costs at that figure, or were including some form of content development / further support as part of the "500k is profitable" figure.

I'm pretty sure they are just referring to gross profit without regard to any more incurred overhead. I just found it interesting that when they acquired the project, R&D costs crested 1.3 billion dollars, up from a billion before the acquisition.

It lends more credence to the theory, and they fact that they won't even disclose a budget on the project. If someone is trying to damage your corp by saying you're wasting money on something that's spinning out of control, the best press release would be "That's a total fabrication, we've spent less than $XXX on R&D for that project. Anything that person reported should be treated with total disregard." In essence, you could bust them on a lie and discredit the whole thing. The fact they just skirt the issue with no figures at all make me believe their sunk costs are very high.

Remember they were also acquiring Mass Effect, Dragon Age and sequels at the same time.

[SnakeCharmer]

Well, they just pretty much tossed out Spring as a realistic launch window:

Everyone at BioWare and EA is working to ensure that Star Wars: The Old Republic is delivered at the quality level you expect from BioWare and Star Wars.

‪Star Wars: The Old Republic is expected to launch this year after the close of EA's fiscal 2011 (which ends March 31st, 2011). Information on the release date and pre-order programs will be released as it becomes available.

[Shrike]

When it's done... 

If it gets pushed back too much, it'll be infringing on ME3s anticipated launch window. Not the same type of game, but still. Another January ME3 would be trying my patience quite a bit.

[Lucas]

New developer blog on the official site, "Building Flashpoints" by World Designer Jesse Sky (nice read):

http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20110204

Three new screenshots from Gamespot:

http://www.gamespot.com/special_feature/most-anticipated-2011/day-5/index.html?page=2

[Ashamanchill]

Holy shit it's darth vader.......with a stylish goatee.

[Paelos]

The Death Star was a Flashpoint. Luke and Obi-wan spent a few minutes LFG in the Mos Eisley Cantina where they enlisted the aid of Han Solo and Chewbacca. Together, they infiltrated a moon-sized battle station to rescue Princess Leia. Things didn't go quite as they expected; difficult choices were made along the way. That's a Flashpoint in a nutshell.