SWTOR

[Lantyssa]

Doing something just for the sake of being original, regardless of whether or not it fits in with the kind of game you're making is a bad idea.  Is it possible to identify with a squad if characters like you did in X-Com?  Sure, but in a completely different manner than Bioware uses in their games.  It doesn't fit to have seven classes that all have personal stories, and then have one class that made up of generic fodder.  Even if you take in a role as their commander, your options in conversations would largely be limited to "yes sir".

I guess I need to be a little more direct than not so subtle references:  Mass Effect.  Shepard is a soldier and a bad-ass, not fodder.

Not that I see anything wrong with a Mastermind equivalent.  I was quite capable of assigning my robots personalities since I could name them.  It wouldn't be a stretch to allow actual personalities being assigned, whether by the writers or a player choice at creation, since the stories are custom written for each class anyways.  We already know they're not going that route though, so I'm not sure it matters.

[UnSub]

On the road to page 100; still waiting for BioWare to release more meat on the game.

... which they shouldn't, because telling people the truth will only destroy their dreams.

[SnakeCharmer]

Shepard is a soldier and a bad-ass, not fodder.

Splitting hairs maybe, but he's a Spectre.  At the same time, he can be any number of other 'classes', but what makes him the supreme bad ass is the Spectre designation.

Not really sure if I am disagreeing with you or not, so...Yeah.

[Lantyssa]

Shepard got chosen to be a Spectre because of her abilities as a soldier.  All that designation did is give her a new series of pick up lines and made it so the military requested she take missions instead of ordering her.

[WindupAtheist]

Shepard existed in a universe where there were no Jedi to whoop his ass. 

[SnakeCharmer]

Shepard got chosen to be a Spectre because of her abilities as a soldier.  All that designation did is give her a new series of pick up lines and made it so the military requested she take missions instead of ordering her.

Maybe.

But Spectre's got better gear and training than non Spectres.  And if I remember right, they got new abilities in ME1.  I might be wrong though.  Or was it just bonuses to damage or existing abilities?

Would a Jedi or Sith still be a Jedi or Sith without someone handing them a saber and training them?

[LK]

Her abilities? Don't you mean his?

I keed. :P

Shepard has a plot shield much the same way a Jedi "bound by destiny" (needing to survive for sake of plot) has one. If we were to honestly put Shepard up against a Jedi, then Shepard would be fucked the hell up in most class specifications except if Shepard was a biotic which is about as equivalent to the Force as you can get. At that point the lightsaber would be the advantage for the Jedi as Shepard couldn't use guns and Mass Effect characters aren't good at close range (Krogan & Shotguns excluded, but a Jedi thinking tactically wouldn't let themselves get pegged by a shotgun).

[Lantyssa]

A 'mech would kick both their asses.

[eldaec]

Shepard got chosen to be a Spectre because of her abilities as a soldier.  All that designation did is give her a new series of pick up lines and made it so the military requested she take missions instead of ordering her.

Maybe.

But Spectre's got better gear and training than non Spectres.  And if I remember right, they got new abilities in ME1.  I might be wrong though.  Or was it just bonuses to damage or existing abilities?

Would a Jedi or Sith still be a Jedi or Sith without someone handing them a saber and training them?

Last I checked, Shepherd's special training consisted of a rousing tune played pianoforte while being told by some blue council wench that "hey, you're a spectre now, go do spectre shit.".

[eldaec]

This thread is past 100k views.

Even 'that' twitch thread only made 63k. Only a year to go before launch!

f13 sure does love to talk about star wars.

[Velorath]

If we were to honestly put Shepard up against a Jedi, then Shepard would be fucked the hell up in most class specifications except if Shepard was a biotic which is about as equivalent to the Force as you can get. At that point the lightsaber would be the advantage for the Jedi as Shepard couldn't use guns and Mass Effect characters aren't good at close range (Krogan & Shotguns excluded, but a Jedi thinking tactically wouldn't let themselves get pegged by a shotgun).

Kinda hard to say any of that considering the Star Wars franchise isn't consistent with how powerful the Jedi are.  I'd say in the original Trilogy, they way they're portrayed I think they'd be very beatable.  Even the prequel Jedi would be vulnerable to heavy weapons though (can't block explosions or fire with a lightsaber).

[eldaec]

Maybe some jedi are more powerful than other jedi.

[Ingmar]

Maybe some jedi are more powerful than other jedi.

Like they're higher level or something!

[Velorath]

Maybe some jedi are more powerful than other jedi.

All the Jedi in the original trilogy are characters that should be fairly powerful (and I'm sure if Lucas had the technology he'd edit that Vader Obi-Wan fight to have them doing flips and force power shit).

[Fordel]

Maybe they don't want to make the Trooper squad based, because it would be 4x the voice work and writing to really flesh out a 4 man squad.

[eldaec]

Maybe some jedi are more powerful than other jedi.

All the Jedi in the original trilogy are characters that should be fairly powerful (and I'm sure if Lucas had the technology he'd edit that Vader Obi-Wan fight to have them doing flips and force power shit).

Maybe the Jedi in the original trilogy are just so fucking powerful that they are beyond your ability to comprehend how awesome they are.

[Sheepherder]

Maybe they don't want to make the Trooper squad based, because it would be 4x the voice work and writing to really flesh out a 4 man squad.

Nothing says they have to be anything more than a squad of drones with the player being the commander.  Check WUA's Radicalthon if you need proof.

None of this would be a problem if Lucas hadn't gone totally super-saiyan with the Jedi.

[Velorath]

Maybe some jedi are more powerful than other jedi.

All the Jedi in the original trilogy are characters that should be fairly powerful (and I'm sure if Lucas had the technology he'd edit that Vader Obi-Wan fight to have them doing flips and force power shit).

Maybe the Jedi in the original trilogy are just so fucking powerful that they are beyond your ability to comprehend how awesome they are.

If only there was such an easy explanation as to why the main villain of all six movies is dispatched not through force powers or lightsaber combat, but from being picked up and tossed down a big fucking pit.  Something akin to the conversation between Yoda and Dooku about how they're too evenly matched with force powers so the fight has to be decided with lightsabers, except it would be more like:

Emperor:  It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force but by our skills with a ... WHAT THE FUCK, PUT ME DOWN!?!

[eldaec]

Maybe they don't want to make the Trooper squad based, because it would be 4x the voice work and writing to really flesh out a 4 man squad.

Nothing says they have to be anything more than a squad of drones with the player being the commander.  Check WUA's Radicalthon if you need proof.

None of this would be a problem if Lucas hadn't gone totally super-saiyan with the Jedi.

That would be super-saiyan with different Jedi in a different time period? If only there was some way lore could be devised in such that martial power balance might change over the course of several millennia...

[Merusk]

Maybe some jedi are more powerful than other jedi.

All the Jedi in the original trilogy are characters that should be fairly powerful (and I'm sure if Lucas had the technology he'd edit that Vader Obi-Wan fight to have them doing flips and force power shit).

Lucas' current mode of explaining away the differences between the series is as follows.   Luke was barely trained, Obi-Wan was an old man near death (you didn't see Tyrannus doing a lot of flip-flops, either) and Vader is a mechanical monstrosity with only one real limb.

[eldaec]

Maybe some jedi are more powerful than other jedi.

All the Jedi in the original trilogy are characters that should be fairly powerful (and I'm sure if Lucas had the technology he'd edit that Vader Obi-Wan fight to have them doing flips and force power shit).

Maybe the Jedi in the original trilogy are just so fucking powerful that they are beyond your ability to comprehend how awesome they are.

If only there was such an easy explanation as to why the main villain of all six movies is dispatched not through force powers or lightsaber combat, but from being picked up and tossed down a big fucking pit.  Something akin to the conversation between Yoda and Dooku about how they're too evenly matched with force powers so the fight has to be decided with lightsabers, except it would be more like:

Emperor:  It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force but by our skills with a ... WHAT THE FUCK, PUT ME DOWN!?!

It's like poetry they rhyme, every stanza ryhmes with....    oh man I crack myself up.

[Sheepherder]

That would be super-saiyan with different Jedi in a different time period? If only there was some way lore could be devised in such that martial power balance might change over the course of several millennia...

Just FYI: The Old Republic where they would have to place the improved technology for Jedi fighting is before the super-saiyan prequels, not after.

Which is before the original trilogy where it's old men fighting cyborgs, fighting young men, fighting an old man who gets thrown into a pit by a cyborg - apparently the Jedi's Achilles heel.  Which is why Luke is the most awesome Jedi ever: not just once, but twice he manages to escape from certain doom in a pit.

[Fordel]

I don't even know who is arguing what anymore at this point! 

[pxib]

Which is before the original trilogy where it's old men fighting cyborgs, fighting young men, fighting an old man who gets thrown into a pit by a cyborg - apparently the Jedi's Achilles heel.  Which is why Luke is the most awesome Jedi ever: not just once, but twice he manages to escape from certain doom in a pit.

So the lack of permadeath is canon.

[tmp]

Maybe some jedi are more powerful than other jedi.

Like they're higher level or something!

Or like they put more points in their midichlorian count stat.

[Ollie]

I don't even know who is arguing what anymore at this point! 

Precisely the reason I feel really good about sitting this one out. SW lore is far too serious a business. I'd just break down in tears, and no one needs to see that.

[WindupAtheist]

Lucas' current mode of explaining away the differences between the series is as follows.   Luke was barely trained, Obi-Wan was an old man near death (you didn't see Tyrannus doing a lot of flip-flops, either) and Vader is a mechanical monstrosity with only one real limb.

Not even that. The only limb he didn't lose against Obi-Wan was his cybernetic one. Dude was literally a head, torso, and some stumps inside that suit. Someone on another forum once kicked off a giant nerd-war by posing the question of whether Ep. 3 Anakin could take out Ep. 4-6 Vader if they somehow fought.

[Riggswolfe]

Lucas' current mode of explaining away the differences between the series is as follows.   Luke was barely trained, Obi-Wan was an old man near death (you didn't see Tyrannus doing a lot of flip-flops, either) and Vader is a mechanical monstrosity with only one real limb.

Not even that. The only limb he didn't lose against Obi-Wan was his cybernetic one. Dude was literally a head, torso, and some stumps inside that suit. Someone on another forum once kicked off a giant nerd-war by posing the question of whether Ep. 3 Anakin could take out Ep. 4-6 Vader if they somehow fought.

I'm not going to get involved but...Episode 3 Anakin would totally kick Vader's ass. As would Episode 3 Obi Wan or Yoda.

[Ratman_tf]

Lucas' current mode of explaining away the differences between the series is as follows.   Luke was barely trained, Obi-Wan was an old man near death (you didn't see Tyrannus doing a lot of flip-flops, either) and Vader is a mechanical monstrosity with only one real limb.

Not even that. The only limb he didn't lose against Obi-Wan was his cybernetic one. Dude was literally a head, torso, and some stumps inside that suit. Someone on another forum once kicked off a giant nerd-war by posing the question of whether Ep. 3 Anakin could take out Ep. 4-6 Vader if they somehow fought.

Both would break down crying over Padme, and how mean the Jedi were. Tie.

[eldaec]

Lucas' current mode of explaining away the differences between the series is as follows.   Luke was barely trained, Obi-Wan was an old man near death (you didn't see Tyrannus doing a lot of flip-flops, either) and Vader is a mechanical monstrosity with only one real limb.

Not even that. The only limb he didn't lose against Obi-Wan was his cybernetic one. Dude was literally a head, torso, and some stumps inside that suit. Someone on another forum once kicked off a giant nerd-war by posing the question of whether Ep. 3 Anakin could take out Ep. 4-6 Vader if they somehow fought.

I'm not going to get involved but...Episode 3 Anakin would totally kick Vader's ass. As would Episode 3 Obi Wan or Yoda.

I'm totally not getting involved in this debate but hey I'm giving you the only acceptable answer to the motion before the house.

Just admit you gave in to the power of the nerd side already. Dignity and self respect are overrated.

[eldaec]

Maybe some jedi are more powerful than other jedi.

All the Jedi in the original trilogy are characters that should be fairly powerful (and I'm sure if Lucas had the technology he'd edit that Vader Obi-Wan fight to have them doing flips and force power shit).

Lucas' current mode of explaining away the differences between the series is as follows.   Luke was barely trained, Obi-Wan was an old man near death (you didn't see Tyrannus doing a lot of flip-flops, either) and Vader is a mechanical monstrosity with only one real limb.

BTW, referring to dooku by his sith name means you are broken.

I mean that in the nicest possible way.

[Merusk]

TBH I forgot his name was Dooku.  Yes, I am in fact broken.  I refer to Sidious/ Palpy as The Emperor on most occasions it comes up as a topic as well.  (not that there's many of those.)

[Fabricated]

Hey guys, if the Hulk and Superman fought in the middle of the sun who would win if the Hulk was really, really, really, really, really, really angry? Discuss

[Furiously]

What color is the sun?

[Margalis]

And what color is the Hulk?