SWTOR

[DLRiley]

Squishes can't afford to auto pilot as much in diku combat hence why they don't auto attack. However that doesn't necessarily means the level of involvement is very high. You can run your char on autopilot you just pressing a key occasional instead of every 1.1 seconds. I haven't found the a caster class where playing with a cheeseburger on one hand is detrimental to my play.

[Velorath]

Chronicles of Spellborn and Age of Conan didn't have auto attack and they failed miserably. Not saying that auto attack = success but putting Gears of War into World of Warcraft isn't going to keep subs.

Fuck, it's like you typed that first sentence out, realized it really didn't mean jack shit, and then left it in anyway.  Yeah, there are MMO's that didn't have auto attack that failed.   There are also a fuckton of MMO's that did have auto attack and failed.  In all of those cases, I think you'd be hard pressed to suggest that auto attack or lack thereof was a major factor in the game's failure.

[AutomaticZen]

This is what I was wondering for the most part.  In WoW as a paladin, I don't think about autoattack.  If you lower the mob's health by the amount of damage autoattack does, and took away autoattack... it wouldn't matter one whit to me.  The combat wouldn't become more boring.

[Rendakor]

This is what I was wondering for the most part.  In WoW as a paladin, I don't think about autoattack.  If you lower the mob's health by the amount of damage autoattack does, and took away autoattack... it wouldn't matter one whit to me.  The combat wouldn't become more boring.

Umm, what? Did you buy your paladin at 80? Leveling up as a paladin, auto attack + procs is the majority of your damage. It isn't until 44-50 that you actually start getting damaging skills beyond Judgement. Warriors also have this problem.

[Azaroth]

Maybe he meant that it was ALREADY SO BORING leveling a Paladin that it couldn't possibly ever be worse ever.

[Zetor]

obligatory link related to paladin leveling (edit: paladins are much more interesting to play now, blah blah etc)

I think there are two different arguments going on in here (both unrelated to the thread's original topic, but... well... it's a SW thread )... one about autoattack (and I think everyone'd like a game where combat was quick / non-repetitive enough to get rid of it altogether), and one about server-side lag compensation measures such as command queuing, less 'twitchy' reactive abilities, global cooldowns, etc. I have yet to see compelling arguments presented against the latter, though.  

[Nevermore]

Auto-attack is really just a preference thing. 

Bullshit. Its not a preference, mmo's in there current form don't support the type of combat that requires 100% user interaction.

What?  Play an Elemental Shaman and tell me it doesn't require 100% user interaction.  The only reason a boring ass, lame mechanic like auto attacking is still necessary in a game like WoW is so your character doesn't stand around with their thumb up their ass if they happen to be out of mana/energy/rage/runes/whatever.

[eldaec]

Squishes can't afford to auto pilot as much in diku combat hence why they don't auto attack. However that doesn't necessarily means the level of involvement is very high. You can run your char on autopilot you just pressing a key occasional instead of every 1.1 seconds. I haven't found the a caster class where playing with a cheeseburger on one hand is detrimental to my play.

Only in WoW. There are plenty of MMOGs where this just isn't true, whether or not they theoreticaly have a default attack.



EDIT: And maybe not WoW, I don't know, I couldn't maintain interest long enough to be sure.

[AutomaticZen]

Umm, what? Did you buy your paladin at 80? Leveling up as a paladin, auto attack + procs is the majority of your damage. It isn't until 44-50 that you actually start getting damaging skills beyond Judgement. Warriors also have this problem.

True, but that's more of a systems issue, i.e. give Paladins/Warriors more attacks earlier.  Judgement every 10 seconds + auto attack is just as boring as (Judgement+autoattack damage) every 10 seconds.  Auto Attack certainly didn't make it more exciting.  I find it a problem that I'd pull a mob to a nice spot, Seal of Light, Judge, Seal of Light (ah the old sealing system) again and walk away from the computer.

I'm just not seeing what auto-attack adds that makes it necessary.  At least CO uses it as a resource builder.  You need the POS end builder on autoattack in order to have Endurance to do anything else.  WoW's doesn't even do that.

I think there are two different arguments going on in here (both unrelated to the thread's original topic, but... well... it's a SW thread )... one about autoattack (and I think everyone'd like a game where combat was quick / non-repetitive enough to get rid of it altogether), and one about server-side lag compensation measures such as command queuing, less 'twitchy' reactive abilities, global cooldowns, etc. I have yet to see compelling arguments presented against the latter, though.

I have no problem with those compensation measures.  But if you DC, you're probably going to die.   And most death penalties are such that this isn't a problem.

[eldaec]

WoWs mechanics were a generation behind when it launched in 2004.

From the little I've played it - WoW combat is more involving than EQ, which is all it was built to compete with.

Just because no good mmogs have been released for 5 years (jesus christ how hard can it be etc), that doesn't mean the specific flaws of the EQ/wow model haven't been fixed time and time again.

Numtini mentioned it a while ago, but did everyone miss not having auto-attack in CoH?  With most games I like auto-attack simply because I find the combat system itself boring.  In CoH I never missed it because combat was actually fun.

CoH combat is pretty bad until you get enough attack powers to fill the gaps.

I agree, CoH combat can be tiresome for the first 45 minutes you are in game.

[Slyfeind]

As a mage in WoW, I used auto-attack at first level. And never ever again for the past five years.

Well, that's not true. I used it when levelling up weapon skills for that achievement, "I have high weapon skills" or whatever. So, I used it for a half an hour at level 1, then for a few hours total for the achievement. So...there we are. Since WoW is successful, we should make players use auto-attack for 3.5 hours. Problem solved! Math is great!

Meanwhile, I've started playing CoH a lot, and I really like no autoattack. About as much as I like autoattack. In other words, I really don't care one way or another. But the 3.5 hour thing, yeah, I'm dead serious about that!

[WindupAtheist]

I think if I have Zangief at 5% energy and then drop the controller, Zangief should just be knocked out anyway. Hur hur.

Most console games automatically pause when a controller is disconnected, so yeah, good argument.

Fuck that, what if the cat goes crazy and jumps up in my lap and digs his claws in and I drop the controller and it's still plugged in and now Zangief is just beating the shit out of me at 5% life while I'm running around the room screaming and trying to dislodge the cat from my leg? Then I lose and that whole CONTINUE... 9... 8... 7... thing is going on, and I have to push start and watch that little airlplane fly to USSR again. Why should I have to pay that reckoning, you fucking masochist? WHY?!

[Sheepherder]

Because you have a cat, obviously.

[UnSub]

I think if I have Zangief at 5% energy and then drop the controller, Zangief should just be knocked out anyway. Hur hur.

Most console games automatically pause when a controller is disconnected, so yeah, good argument.

Fuck that, what if the cat goes crazy and jumps up in my lap and digs his claws in and I drop the controller and it's still plugged in and now Zangief is just beating the shit out of me at 5% life while I'm running around the room screaming and trying to dislodge the cat from my leg? Then I lose and that whole CONTINUE... 9... 8... 7... thing is going on, and I have to push start and watch that little airlplane fly to USSR again. Why should I have to pay that reckoning, you fucking masochist? WHY?!

Because you probably aren't paying $15 a month to fight Zangief in order to get his Gorbechov Birthmark Tattoo drop.

Lag and drop outs are something all MMOs have to deal with. Auto attack is one way of dealing with it, although one that is increasingly seen as antiquated.

[Sheepherder]

In Soviet Russia, you own cat.

[Mrbloodworth]

So, not sure if this was posted or not.

The Old Republic MMO features all voice acting, no text

I guess I was like, totally wrong that this was the future. 

This adds to the growing number of MMO's with full voice overs.

[Nebu]

This adds to the growing number of MMO's with full voice overs.

HUGE mistake.  

[Malakili]

So, not sure if this was posted or not.

The Old Republic MMO features all voice acting, no text

I guess I was like, totally wrong that this was the future. 

This adds to the growing number of MMO's with full voice overs.

Well, considering I play without sound a ton, I guess I'm out.

[Stormwaltz]

This adds to the growing number of MMO's with full voice overs.

HUGE mistake.  

Agreed, for many reasons.

[Mrbloodworth]

This adds to the growing number of MMO's with full voice overs.

HUGE mistake.  

Time will tell.

[Kageru]

The report is somewhat ambiguous. It could be saying you never need to read a line of text (ie. *everything* is voice acted) which doesn't rule out text being optional. Though I could just as easily imagine them deciding to force players to watch all the voice acting they spent a stupid amount of money on.

I can't wait to see what actually comes out of all this confusion when the NDA drops. I still won't care, Star Wars has been exploited to the point of nausea, but it will be fun to see how all these mechanics are going to hang together.

[Cyrrex]

I bet 10 bucks that they'll have subtitles, just like all Bioware RPGs.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Time will tell.

No, it won't.  If they forgo subtitles completely this will be the single dumbest decision in mmo history, period.  I will leave it up to others to list the myriad reasons for this stupidity since I'm at work but suffice to say, you are wrong.

[Mrbloodworth]

I seriously doubt they won't have subtitles. All bioware titles have voice, and subtitles.

[eldaec]

Don't be stupid, of course there will be subtitles. The point of that link was to say that everything at launch will have voice over, which everyone already knows, so actually the link had no point.

[Lantyssa]

Oh joy.  A voice discussion again. 

[Draegan]

You guys got Bloodworthed.

[VainEldritch]

Don't be stupid, of course there will be subtitles. The point of that link was to say that everything at launch will have voice over, which everyone already knows, so actually the link had no point.

*THIS GAME IS NOT FOR THE DEAF*

 

[Morat20]

They better have a fucking "skip voice overs" thing. I got pissy enough with Mass Effect, especially when shopping.

Vendor: "Greetings, Earthclan.." ME: "I DON'T WANT TO FUCKING HEAR YOUR GODDAMN LINE. I WANT TO SHOP" Vendor: "To the colonies".

ME: FUCK YOU.

The Hanar in the Emporium was the worst. I just want a fucking menu. If there's a "skip dialogue and go straight the menu" button on the 360 version, I've yet to find it.

[Velorath]

They better have a fucking "skip voice overs" thing. I got pissy enough with Mass Effect, especially when shopping.

Vendor: "Greetings, Earthclan.." ME: "I DON'T WANT TO FUCKING HEAR YOUR GODDAMN LINE. I WANT TO SHOP" Vendor: "To the colonies".

ME: FUCK YOU.

The Hanar in the Emporium was the worst. I just want a fucking menu. If there's a "skip dialogue and go straight the menu" button on the 360 version, I've yet to find it.

Doesn't the X button usually skip past dialogue?

[Stormwaltz]

The Hanar in the Emporium was the worst. I just want a fucking menu. If there's a "skip dialogue and go straight the menu" button on the 360 version, I've yet to find it.

Doesn't the X button usually skip past dialogue?

Unless a line was specifically flagged otherwise - and the hanar's shouldn't have been - X can skip through any line.

Generally dialogue was only made unskippable when it was covering a load in the background.

[Ingmar]

I seem to recall that dialogue that had a little animation 'scene' to go with it was unskippable usually, and I also seem to recall that for whatever reason talking to that 'Greetings Earthclan' for some reason had a little scene of Shephard leaning up against that guy's bar or something similar, which most merchant interactions didn't have.

[Venkman]

We had this discussion 12 pages ago. But then, 12 pages ago Dragon Age hadn't launched yet If they do it like that and they give my character a voice in the cut scenes and they're skippable (as DA:Os are), I'm fine with it.

But to be clear (again), this is not the first MMO to be fully voiced.

[eldaec]

But to be clear (again), this is not the first MMO to be fully voiced.

Yes, but Wow wasn't fully voiced, and apparently, problems solved in the 2 dozen mmogs since wow don't count.

[Venkman]

Ah but EQ2 came before WoW