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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Star Wars: The Old Republic  |  Topic: SWTOR 0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: SWTOR  (Read 2071726 times)
Margalis
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Reply #735 on: April 13, 2009, 07:44:52 PM

The bounty hunter forum threads read like this:

Will tehe be platyer bountiez?

Player boutnies are a must!

Will you play bounty hunter at launch?

Face it guzs, player bounties don't w0rk.

No player bounties = fails

---

It's all pointless speculation based on nothing.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 10:30:17 PM by Margalis »

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Triforcer
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Reply #736 on: April 13, 2009, 09:31:27 PM

It's all pointless speculation based on nothing.

What on the Internet isn't?  We are one Internet forum criticizing another Internet forum.  It has always been f13 trendy fashion to rip on how stupid everyone except us is and engage in general nihilist misanthropic fury.  I still don't see how those boards are instrinsically bad, anymore than we consider all the rest of the Internet intrinsically bad.     

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Lantyssa
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Reply #737 on: April 13, 2009, 10:07:42 PM

As I said, because of expectations.  Make people think they're invested, then shatter their expectations, they'll leave and make sure everyone around knows how disgruntled they are.

Follow Lum's plan and they can comment on the good and bad of what's laid out, but you aren't fighting against preconceived notions on top of it.

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Triforcer
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Reply #738 on: April 13, 2009, 10:13:57 PM

As I said, because of expectations.  Make people think they're invested, then shatter their expectations, they'll leave and make sure everyone around knows how disgruntled they are.

Follow Lum's plan and they can comment on the good and bad of what's laid out, but you aren't fighting against preconceived notions on top of it.

But do those people really outnumber the people you gain from engaging in such early hype?  I don't think so, I guess that is where we disagree. 

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Margalis
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Reply #739 on: April 13, 2009, 10:35:14 PM

Quote
What on the Internet isn't?

Is this some sort of trick question? Plenty of games ahve boards not based on speculation. The point here is that the devs are actively encouraging speculation and eventual dissapointment by forming a bazillion boards around about three sentences of game description.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Triforcer
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Reply #740 on: April 13, 2009, 10:56:22 PM

Who cares?

They will not have one less net subscriber for having boards open this early.  Not even one.  If that's true, then the rest is just sound and f13 nihil-fury.   

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Ingmar
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Reply #741 on: April 13, 2009, 11:23:56 PM

As I said, because of expectations.  Make people think they're invested, then shatter their expectations, they'll leave and make sure everyone around knows how disgruntled they are.

Follow Lum's plan and they can comment on the good and bad of what's laid out, but you aren't fighting against preconceived notions on top of it.

But do those people really outnumber the people you gain from engaging in such early hype?  I don't think so, I guess that is where we disagree. 

Someone should do a study! I feel like its the kind of thing someone has probably already done, even.

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Triforcer
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Reply #742 on: April 13, 2009, 11:45:16 PM

As I said, because of expectations.  Make people think they're invested, then shatter their expectations, they'll leave and make sure everyone around knows how disgruntled they are.

Follow Lum's plan and they can comment on the good and bad of what's laid out, but you aren't fighting against preconceived notions on top of it.

But do those people really outnumber the people you gain from engaging in such early hype?  I don't think so, I guess that is where we disagree. 

Someone should do a study! I feel like its the kind of thing someone has probably already done, even.

Seems like it would be impossible to control for other variables.  Such as:  how good the game actually is, which matters a lot more in the end. 

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
Cyrrex
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Reply #743 on: April 14, 2009, 05:36:36 AM


Seems like it would be impossible to control for other variables.  Such as:  how good the game actually is, which matters a lot more in the end. 

Dude, that the game will be robot jebus is a foregone conclusion.  I mean, it is being produced by the good folks from Bioware in Edmonton, after all.

/runs away!

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #744 on: April 14, 2009, 08:17:44 AM

Who cares?

They will not have one less net subscriber for having boards open this early.  Not even one.  If that's true, then the rest is just sound and f13 nihil-fury.   

But it isn't true. Badly run communities can scare off potential players. Badly managed forums can see players turned off by the mods. I hold up the shining beacon of MMO-no-ness that is Darkfall as my example, where every question was stamped down hard by forum warriors and mods ran roughshod over players for kicks. Of course, less players is what Darkfall wanted, so perhaps this was a net win for them.

Hartsman
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Reply #745 on: April 14, 2009, 08:25:04 AM

Pre-alpha forums suck by default.

Yeah. This. I'm on the second project now where we're not even going to HINT at what we're working on until people are in the game playing. Anything before that is pointless.


Bingo.  Excellent call.

gryeyes
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Reply #746 on: April 14, 2009, 10:09:03 AM

I hold up the shining beacon of MMO-no-ness that is Darkfall as my example, where every question was stamped down hard by forum warriors and mods ran roughshod over players for kicks. Of course, less players is what Darkfall wanted, so perhaps this was a net win for them.

I would think darkfall would be an example opposite of what you are claiming. A forum for a game that took 8 years to appear (not sure when the forum opened 5+ years at least) that was moderated by amateur volunteers,9-10 months between updates. Every gimmick type program they talked about abandoned and never mentioned again (monthly dev blog). Constant stream of broken promises and general fuck off attitude by the developers. Claimed beta would start at least 3 times with years in between each claim. And yet they generated and retained a community. Or at least they did until the game was released.
Lantyssa
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Reply #747 on: April 14, 2009, 10:39:13 AM

Yes.  Darkfall has "a community".

This is a Star Wars game.  It will have a community no matter what.  If those bonds form and then half of it leaves a month later because it isn't what they wanted, they'll drag the rest with them.  The community will go elsewhere.  Because it's just not as much fun to play a good game if all the people you care about aren't playing.

By waiting to form the community around those who like what they're playing, the bonds are between those who are interested in the game before them.  You only get one chance to start the community.  Why start it with people who don't even know what game they're going to be playing?

Timing matters.

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Zane0
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Reply #748 on: April 14, 2009, 11:28:32 AM

There is and will never be any way to know for certain, short of an absolutely exhaustive social inquiry that might not even be physically possible; this is all the basest of speculation.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 11:48:06 AM by Zane0 »
Goreschach
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Reply #749 on: April 14, 2009, 01:19:07 PM

There is and will never be any way to know for certain, short of an absolutely exhaustive social inquiry that might not even be physically possible; this is all the basest of speculation.

And since the effects on player base size are all just speculation, why put a lot of effort and money into having a huge, early forum that turns into Bartertown? Without evidence that doing so increases game pops, it's easier to have a later, smaller, highly moderated forum that isn't a complete shitheap.
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #750 on: April 14, 2009, 01:33:00 PM

Of course, the alternative is that they are going to launch sooner than anyone currently thinks they are.
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Reply #751 on: April 14, 2009, 06:00:17 PM

I hold up the shining beacon of MMO-no-ness that is Darkfall as my example, where every question was stamped down hard by forum warriors and mods ran roughshod over players for kicks. Of course, less players is what Darkfall wanted, so perhaps this was a net win for them.

I would think darkfall would be an example opposite of what you are claiming. A forum for a game that took 8 years to appear (not sure when the forum opened 5+ years at least) that was moderated by amateur volunteers,9-10 months between updates. Every gimmick type program they talked about abandoned and never mentioned again (monthly dev blog). Constant stream of broken promises and general fuck off attitude by the developers. Claimed beta would start at least 3 times with years in between each claim. And yet they generated and retained a community. Or at least they did until the game was released.

I'd argue they didn't retain a community so much as acquire one when it appeared that Darkfall would actually launch. I don't count the insane fanbois who sit on a forum for a title that appears to be vapourware as a "community", especially since they'll be the ones who have the loudest hissy fits before leaving (usually with claims of "broken loyalty, we stood by you when...") when you announce feature_X is being changed. My fallback vapour forum is Citizen Zero - there might still have been people on the pre-alpha forums for the two or so years post-Microsoft purchase of Microprose / BigWorld, but it was hardly a community worth having.

How many Darkfall community members lasted the full 8 years? 4 years? 2 years? 90 days post launch?

Triforcer
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Reply #752 on: April 14, 2009, 06:19:47 PM

Of course, the alternative is that they are going to launch sooner than anyone currently thinks they are.

I can reasonably see that happening.  But I would still be extremely surprised if this game is out before fall 2010.

All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu.  This is the truth!  This is my belief! At least for now...
gryeyes
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Reply #753 on: April 14, 2009, 06:40:16 PM

How many Darkfall community members lasted the full 8 years? 4 years? 2 years? 90 days post launch?

I really don't know. I checked on that site sporadically throughout the years and it retained an active base. I cant think of a more hostile community over a game nobody with half a brain thought would launch. Yet amazingly it did create word of mouth and had a large and active forums. There are Darkfall guilds that have been in existence for 5+ years. I do not understand it either but somehow someway that forum and Darkfall created a fanbase. They removed the join dates a year or two ago but up until that point seeing accounts created in the low 2000's was pretty common. They had a fucking guild politics/drama sub-forum that was blazing with drama. Pre-alpha guild drama  swamp poop
ashrik
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Reply #754 on: April 14, 2009, 11:05:46 PM

I think it just speaks to how much people are interested in that sort of thing.

At the very least, how passionate those people are.

But at the very least they had the particulars downpat, eh? People being able to kill others almost anywhere. Not too crazy of a concept, nor too complicated of one.

So I'd have to agree, too early for SWTOR. As someone earlier said, people are aligning with things they don't even understand yet.
Sheepherder
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Reply #755 on: April 15, 2009, 11:34:29 AM

So, you have about what, 3,000 registered users on these forums, right? The TOR Community section (not the site as a whole, just the Community section) gets more posts than that on a normal day when we don't post an update. That's like saying the staff and layout my local Barnes & Nobles has should work just fine for the Library of Congress. Yes, I know, I'm being a little melodramatic on that one but you get my drift.

So what's the pay grade at F13 Schild?

Quote
There are forums for general disc, classes, guilds, and community creations. Pretty basic topics that we know most people are going to want to talk about in regards to an MMO. They were talking about all of that already and we just made it easier for people who had no interest in guild politics to not have to see it unless they wanted to participate in it.

Classes: Can't be played yet, so forums devoted to them are largely meaningless.
Guilds: Can't be made yet, but you want them in-game when it launches.  A small browser game would do a whole lot more for you than forums.
Community Creations: Redirect people to a fan fiction site, call them an "affiliate", make them link back to you.

Quote
But outside of using some colorful terms, you haven't really even given any true reasons as to why its a bad thing. When you're building a community, why is it a bad thing (when you have that kind of volume) to categorize the conversations into something more manageable for the end user?

It's bad because fan fiction and whining about game mechanics for a game not yet in alpha is more likely to scare a sane community off rather than attract it.  You don't need any effort to get the Star Wars community.
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Reply #756 on: April 16, 2009, 06:50:58 AM

For the above I would wager the signal to noise ratio is very low.


« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 06:54:15 AM by Furiously »

Righ
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Reply #757 on: April 16, 2009, 08:20:15 AM

Pre-alpha forums suck by default.

Yeah. This. I'm on the second project now where we're not even going to HINT at what we're working on until people are in the game playing. Anything before that is pointless.


Bingo.  Excellent call.

Way to blow the lid on his secret project. Still, online bingo is popular.

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Sky
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Reply #758 on: April 16, 2009, 09:22:39 AM

 awesome, for real DRILLING AND MANLINESS
Cyrrex
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Reply #759 on: April 16, 2009, 10:18:27 AM


Bingo.  Excellent call.

Way to blow the lid on his secret project. Still, online bingo is popular.
[/quote]

All I can say is there better be player bounties.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Dtrain
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Reply #760 on: April 16, 2009, 11:04:24 AM


Bingo.  Excellent call.

Way to blow the lid on his secret project. Still, online bingo is popular.

All I can say is there better be player bounties.
[/quote]

Note to devs: the little old lady class had better have 3 blotters and be able to work 6 sheets at once.
eldaec
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Reply #761 on: April 16, 2009, 12:39:04 PM

Pre-alpha forums suck by default.

Yeah. This. I'm on the second project now where we're not even going to HINT at what we're working on until people are in the game playing. Anything before that is pointless.

(Plus, given that the first project died before anyone got in the game playing, probably just as well!)

This is a massively multiplayer online version of 'The Game' isn't it?

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Sky
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Reply #762 on: April 16, 2009, 01:11:02 PM

Yo, I didn't even know Lum was hangin wit Fitty, dawg.
DLRiley
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Reply #763 on: April 18, 2009, 04:46:11 PM

http://my.spill.com/profiles/blog/show?id=947994:BlogPost:1231907

The second interview has people working on the SWOTR. Nothing new (information wise) really funny listening to though.
NowhereMan
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Reply #764 on: April 20, 2009, 07:24:31 AM

Of course, the alternative is that they are going to launch sooner than anyone currently thinks they are.

I predict this game launches a lot sooner than the Devs think it will or should awesome, for real

I've also got to agree with Schild in general on the assessment of the forums. There's a lot of shit people will want to discuss and a lot of speculation, etc. You know where it's great to have that happening at this stage? Fan sites that can have their own little communities, Devs can visit and occasionally post but never give any impression of listening intently to and more importantly can become incestuous cess pits without necessarily scaring off anyone who happens to come across Star Wars and Bioware in a link. Make the official forums for the moment focused specifically on what information is available, make it clear that great tracts devoted to what the mechanics should be will not be tolerated at the moment. The community does not need to be formed by the official forums especially not when the game is still dividing into bundles of cells in Bioware's (awesome, for real) womb. There isn't going to be a shortage of Fan sites popping up for this, until there's a reason to have more stuff going on on official forums it just seems like it's destined for doom. Communities of that size are never going to be easy or fun to manage but it's possible to make doing so easier or harder.

Of course I've never come close to managing any community, just watched plenty burn to the ground or limp on regardless so I'll leave this wishing Ashen good luck but I've got my popcorn on standby and am planning on cooking it in the raging pit of flames those community forums will consist in.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Segoris
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Reply #765 on: April 20, 2009, 08:03:51 AM


I predict this game launches a lot sooner than the Devs think it will or should awesome, for real

I don't think I've seen a safer prediction, or bet, then this in a long time
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Reply #766 on: April 20, 2009, 05:52:25 PM

To follow on from NowhereMan, a great example is DCUO Source - it's doing everything that DCUO needs at this stage, gets some dev attention and is growing. It picks up all the relevant info when SOE releases something.

When DCUO is closer to actual launch, an official forum will be required. But for now the fans are doing a great job in building their community for them together with the upside that if DCUO Source turns bad, SOE can cut it off as just a fansite.

AutomaticZen
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Reply #767 on: April 27, 2009, 08:05:23 PM

Homosexuals don't exist in the Star Wars Universe.

Interesting tack.  I can't think of any gay heroes in the Expanded Universe off the top of my head, but I'm surprised the CM just came out and said "no".

Lucasfilm policy maybe?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 08:08:00 PM by AutomaticZen »
Azaroth
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Reply #768 on: April 27, 2009, 08:20:10 PM

So I can't have a pink lightsaber?

F  is inviting you to start Quarto. Do you want to Accept (Alt+C) or Decline (Alt+D) the invitation?
 
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Dtrain
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Reply #769 on: April 27, 2009, 08:27:41 PM

Well, at least they found a use for the pre-pre-alpha forums other than staging a giant circle jerk.
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