What went wrong.

[Goreschach]

Blizzard impressed me when they shit canned Starcraft: Ghost. They aren't afraid to dump a project that isn't good enough and judging by the success of the games they HAVE released I think they have a pretty good idea what's going to be popular and sell well.

It wasn't the first time. A while before that there was work on a 2d sidescrolling warcraft rpg type thing that got the axe.

[Ratman_tf]

Not many companies are in a place where they can drop a game in development and survive it.

[UnSub]

Indeed.

[Miasma]

I really didn't mind Gods and Heroes, if you looked past the huge number of bugs and stability problems in beta the gameplay itself was rather enjoyable.

Judging by my luck at most diku MMOs recently I'm sure my love would have turned to hate by the time I hit the midpoint of levelling though...

[UnSub]

I thought G&H was completely mediocre, but with some really nice ideas. Like grapple animations, every class being a pet class, having the ear of a particular god, getting your own squad camp, etc.

[Simond]

And to the graveyard it goes.  I SO love the speed at which they're getting buried.

No fucking around.  BAM! - to the back of the head.  Who's next?   

You know, that's a good point - what is next? 

[Signe]

Why aren't we over this by now? 

[khaine]

How long before EA comes out with the EA All Access sub for DAOC / UO / WAR  and future ones

SOE's is life support for VG to PotBS , figure EA might as well try the same

[Geki]

Why aren't we over this by now? 

Because despite the hate, people still want this game to do well.  The hope is still there.  Can't really say whether the death bell has rung just yet.  The only thing we know right now is that if it is succeeding, it's not doing it in a way that we would like.

[FellintoOblivion]

Why aren't we over this by now? 

Because despite the hate, people still want this game to do well.  The hope is still there.  Can't really say whether the death bell has rung just yet.  The only thing we know right now is that if it is succeeding, it's not doing it in a way that we would like.

Actually I want it to fail miserably.

[Wershlak]

Why aren't we over this by now? 

You mean WAR or the cycle of falling in love with every game that comes out only to have our hearts broken a month later?  

[Nebu]

Why aren't we over this by now? 

Because there isn't an MMO worth playing right now if PvP is your thing.  With WAR tanking, I'm left with the choice of playing DAoC again or going outside into the sun.  I'm afraid of the sun!

[Mrbloodworth]

Why aren't we over this by now? 

Because despite the hate, people still want this game to do well.  The hope is still there.  Can't really say whether the death bell has rung just yet.  The only thing we know right now is that if it is succeeding, it's not doing it in a way that we would like.

Actually I want it to fail miserably.

WTF? Why?

[FellintoOblivion]

Why aren't we over this by now? 

Because despite the hate, people still want this game to do well.  The hope is still there.  Can't really say whether the death bell has rung just yet.  The only thing we know right now is that if it is succeeding, it's not doing it in a way that we would like.

Actually I want it to fail miserably.

WTF? Why?

Because I love the Warhammer IP and the sooner this abortion gets sucked up the sooner they can do something better with it.

[Geki]

Because I love the Warhammer IP and the sooner this abortion gets sucked up the sooner they can do something better with it.

That's the most backwards logic I've seen in quite some time. 

"Great news guys!  WAR tanked!  Now we can snatch the license and finally work on that Warhammer date sim game!!!"

[Ingmar]

Interrupts were one of the better aspects of DAoC.  They served the purpose of keeping casters in check with melee while allowing non-dps classes to server a crucial role in pvp (cc + interrupts).  If you played a caster/healer in DAoC, you learned quickly what the ranges of your enemies were and how to properly position yourself to avoid interrupts.  If you got interrupted a lot, you weren't doing something right.  Caster dps was insane when played by a solid player.  The difference being that you had to be conscious of not only range to an enemy, positioning, but also had to be constantly panning to be effective. 

Yet another reason why DAoC >>> WAR.  Subtleties in combat.  Sandbox-like pvp.  Solo, 8v8, zergvzerg all fun and viable.  Damnit... if they had simply fixed the shortcomings of DAoC, this would have been one hell of a game.

I had to pull this one out because if there is one piece of design in all of MMO-dom that I think is shitty, it is DAOC's interrupt system. It led directly to very messy class balance issues. With that interrupt system, caster per-nuke damage had to be *extremely* high, because if it wasn't they would have been totally useless. Unfortunately what that ended up meaning was that fighting a caster was a totaly binary experience. Either they nuked you to death before you got to them (usually in 2-3 shots) or you won with them having little to no chance to escape. That was maybe the single core issue that poisoned every other class design issue in the entire game, IMO.

I actually think it was worse than minute long mezzes, in terms of the systemic problems it created.

[FellintoOblivion]

Because I love the Warhammer IP and the sooner this abortion gets sucked up the sooner they can do something better with it.

That's the most backwards logic I've seen in quite some time. 

"Great news guys!  WAR tanked!  Now we can snatch the license and finally work on that Warhammer date sim game!!!"

Yea.

"WAR is still limping along with 100K subs five years later! Man that IP must be a fucking cash cow, lets do something with it!" is a much more attractive situation.

At least if WAR tanks and GW throws Mythic under the bus they can save face and keep the IP attractive for potential development.

[Mrbloodworth]

Because I love the Warhammer IP and the sooner this abortion gets sucked up the sooner they can do something better with it.

[FellintoOblivion]

Why aren't we over this by now? 

Because despite the hate, people still want this game to do well.  The hope is still there.  Can't really say whether the death bell has rung just yet.  The only thing we know right now is that if it is succeeding, it's not doing it in a way that we would like.

Actually I want it to fail miserably.

WTF? Why?

Because I love the Warhammer IP and the sooner this abortion gets sucked up the sooner they can do something better with it.

Judging by your mastery of internet meme I guess I can add you to the list of people who think lingering shitty exposure and a company letting its IP wallow in mediocrity is a good thing.

Preemptive edit: If you think WAR is the best a Warhammer MMO could be then just stop reading. Otherwise what do you think is better:

A) WAR limps along for the next 5-7 years with 100-250K players and becomes regarded as just another failed MMO, thus no other company could make a Warhammer MMO if they wanted or;

B) WAR goes the way of AoC, GW decides to pull the plug and publically shit on MJ for ruining it. They become much more selective with whom they give their license to and MAYBE someone else takes a shot at a Warhammer MMO a decade from now

Seeing that B is the only option that even allows for the POSSIBILITY of a better Warhammer MMO, that's what I pick.

[Zzulo]

[FellintoOblivion]

See above.

[Geki]

Yea.

"WAR is still limping along with 100K subs five years later! Man that IP must be a fucking cash cow, lets do something with it!" is a much more attractive situation.

At least if WAR tanks and GW throws Mythic under the bus they can save face and keep the IP attractive for potential development.

If war tanks, no studio is going to touch the IP with a ten foot pole.  People will associate Warhammer with WAR, not with GW.  If you think anyone without a neckbeard gives two shits about Warhammer Fantasy IP you're diluted.  Any studio that had any passing interest in the IP is not going to come from the codex-owning fanbase, it's going to come from the executives that see that the IP has potential to be profitable.  Seeing war tank will take it right off the table. 

[FellintoOblivion]

Yea.

"WAR is still limping along with 100K subs five years later! Man that IP must be a fucking cash cow, lets do something with it!" is a much more attractive situation.

At least if WAR tanks and GW throws Mythic under the bus they can save face and keep the IP attractive for potential development.

If war tanks, no studio is going to touch the IP with a ten foot pole.  People will associate Warhammer with WAR, not with GW.  If you think anyone without a neckbeard gives two shits about Warhammer Fantasy IP you're diluted.  Any studio that had any passing interest in the IP is not going to come from the codex-owning fanbase, it's going to come from the executives that see that the IP has potential to be profitable.  Seeing war tank will take it right off the table. 

And letting it shit on itself for five years will be any better?

There have been non-MMO Warhammer games that have sucked some serious ass in the past but they are still getting made.

Oh and I am actually very concentrated.

[Zzulo]

man there has been tons of bad warhammer games in the past

that warhammer RTS comes to mind. It was so mediocre it passed right on over to horrible

[Lantyssa]

B) WAR goes the way of AoC, GW decides to pull the plug and publically shit on MJ for ruining it. They become much more selective with whom they give their license to and MAYBE someone else takes a shot at a Warhammer MMO a decade from now

Who are they going to be more selective with that can pick it up?  One company has already failed.  This one, a major MMO company with a published game, is ultimately going to be a big 'meh'.  Blizzard?  They already did Warhammer, without the royalties.  If the game goes down, you're not getting a Warhammer MMO.

Edit: Geki made a good point, too, in regards to this.

"Great news guys!  WAR tanked!  Now we can snatch the license and finally work on that Warhammer date sim game!!!"

Do want!

Will that Hag take my offer of her hated enemy's entrails?  Can I make the Orc stop bashin' da stunty long enough for him to notice my affections?  Oh!  I quiver at the thought.

[FellintoOblivion]

man there has been tons of bad warhammer games in the past

that warhammer RTS comes to mind. It was so mediocre it passed right on over to horrible

Battle March? I picked it up for 360. Wasn't TERRIBLE. If you're a Warhammer fan I'm sure it's a lot easier to over look the shittier aspects but I enjoyed it.

[FellintoOblivion]

B) WAR goes the way of AoC, GW decides to pull the plug and publically shit on MJ for ruining it. They become much more selective with whom they give their license to and MAYBE someone else takes a shot at a Warhammer MMO a decade from now

Who are they going to be more selective with that can pick it up?  One company has already failed.  This one, a major MMO company with a published game, is ultimately going to be a big 'meh'.  Blizzard?  They already did Warhammer, without the royalties.  If the game goes down, you're not getting a Warhammer MMO.

Edit: Geki made a good point, too, in regards to this.

"Great news guys!  WAR tanked!  Now we can snatch the license and finally work on that Warhammer date sim game!!!"

Do want!

Will that Hag take my offer of her hated enemy's entrails?  Can I make the Orc stop bashin' da stunty long enough for him to notice my affections?  Oh!  I quiver at the thought.

If the game DOESN"T go down we're stuck with it.

If it does there is at least a chance someone picks it up, it's happened before.

[schild]

GW won't pull the plug and Mythic/EA won't kill it.

Stop making the thread stupid.

[Mrbloodworth]

GW won't pull the plug and Mythic/EA won't kill it.

Stop making the thread stupid.

Its to late.

[Geki]

And letting it shit on itself for five years will be any better?

There have been non-MMO Warhammer games that have sucked some serious ass in the past but they are still getting made.

Oh and I am actually very concentrated.

Great point, if tons of shitpile games get released and dumped we'll keep getting more shitpile games until the studios just avoid the ip like the plague.  If you're looking for tons of bargain bin software then yes, cutting it off right now is a good idea. 

What I'm saying is, you aren't gonna have a choice. Wanting this game to fail is going to make it worse for the IP than making it better.  You better start spooning this game and telling it you love it because it's the best thing you're gonna get and you're fucked.

[FellintoOblivion]

GW won't pull the plug and Mythic/EA won't kill it.

Stop making the thread stupid.

I didn't say they would or even that I expected them to.

Turn the mirror around.

[BitWarrior]

I love the Warhammer IP and the sooner this abortion gets sucked up the sooner they can do something better with it.

I didn't say they would or even that I expected them to.

Thanks for playing.

[schild]

Much like WAR, it seems FellintoOblivion decided to go full retard. We know how that goes.

[Morfiend]

I love the Warhammer IP and the sooner this abortion gets sucked up the sooner they can do something better with it.

I didn't say they would or even that I expected them to.

Thanks for playing.

Thanks fallen, we are now all stupider for having read your posts.

[Brogarn]

Wish I had scrolled down and saw Morfiend's graph before reading through all this.