Star Trek

[Ratman_tf]

I'm sorry. According to a scene that was never in the movie, he spent 20 years in a Klingon mine. That makes it all better! 

I was under the impression you were actually trying to rationalize the behavior of an irrational character, so I figured the deleted scene stuff might shed some light on why Nero wasn't tearing ass across the quadrant, ripping the shit out of federation planets.  The scene was removed for pacing purposes, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly no longer a part of their world and its stories.  That would be like discounting all the things mentioned in the appendix of The Lord of the Rings as non-canonical.

My point is that the Nero story fizzles pretty badly. What exactly he was doing during those two decades isn't important to the fact that he does little and little is done with him.

[Venkman]

You all brainfuck this shit too much. I went to go see a star trek movie, and I as happy with it. Sheesh, hang up the neck beards for five seconds so you can enjoy something every now and then.

I was happy with it. When I saw it. But there's still something to discuss these many months later. That's actually an interest they can market to with a sequel or there wouldn't be this whole industry of movies made because there's believed to be a sequel.

Don't be confused and think this is some indictment of the movie. There's plenty of shit that gets released that isn't worth discussing at all. And if you were the type to merely seek enjoyment and then privately convict yourself to staying with it or seeking something else, you wouldn't be here  .

[ahoythematey]

My point is that the Nero story fizzles pretty badly. What exactly he was doing during those two decades isn't important to the fact that he does little and little is done with him.

Eh, it's not really about him, though.  It's about Spock and Kirk.  Obviously, I didn't mind the lack of focus on his part of the story.

[Ratman_tf]

My point is that the Nero story fizzles pretty badly. What exactly he was doing during those two decades isn't important to the fact that he does little and little is done with him.

Eh, it's not really about him, though.  It's about Spock and Kirk.  Obviously, I didn't mind the lack of focus on his part of the story.

You know, I did like young Spock. He had a few neat moments. The rest of the characters were crap.

[Pennilenko]

You all brainfuck this shit too much. I went to go see a star trek movie, and I as happy with it. Sheesh, hang up the neck beards for five seconds so you can enjoy something every now and then.

I was happy with it. When I saw it. But there's still something to discuss these many months later. That's actually an interest they can market to with a sequel or there wouldn't be this whole industry of movies made because there's believed to be a sequel.

Don't be confused and think this is some indictment of the movie. There's plenty of shit that gets released that isn't worth discussing at all. And if you were the type to merely seek enjoyment and then privately convict yourself to staying with it or seeking something else, you wouldn't be here  .

You got me there, it's just frustrating seeing people be so discerning regarding science fiction movies they have seen, and i wasn't necessarily calling your Nero discussion out. I should have quoted a whole bunch of posts in this thread where people were being the hip dis a decent movie to look cool types.

[lamaros]

Stop thinking about the plot. It is shit and thinking about it will only make it apparent just how shit it is.

[Tannhauser]

I remember watching the movie thinking 'wtf have the Romulans been up to for 20 years?'

But the movie was about Kirk and Spock, Nero got shafted storywise.  Eh, no movie is perfect.  But taken as a whole it's a great piece of entertainment.

Lastly, no Khan please. 

[Slayerik]

Fun movie. Will watch again at some point.

[Ubvman]

Their ship was damaged after the battle with the U.S.S. Kelvin.  They strayed into Klingon space and were taken prisoner.  Yes, it's a deleted scene.  I thought the Klingons looked kinda cool, all masked, reminded me of Planet of the Apes.

About Nero.

What annoys me greatly is the fact that instead of, "lets warn the Romulan high command of the impending disaster and save all the future generations of Romulans including my wife; and while we are at, give all this advanced tech (including the red globe macguffin) to the Romulan empire so that they can properly ass fuck the Vulcans AND the Federation." Its, "No, let us just do an amateur job at it and get screwed for the next 20 years on a Kilingon planet AND still fail at killing the one I blame for the whole mess..."

Writer's guild strike (which happened at the pre-production of the film and prevented re-writes) really messed up the movie IMHO.
 

[Tannhauser]

No, Nero hated the Romulan government due to their anti-union strikebuster policies.  Nero is a staunch member of the URMW, that's why he had weapons on his mining ship.  He would never give his advanced mining technology to the Romulan government!  Not after what they did to Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus, his father.


/got nuthin'

[NowhereMan]

I thought Nero was a Reman or something? The whole Romulan slave-caste thing that were stuck with life as miners and weren't overly-fond of the Romulan government and Tal Shiar or is that one of those things I've totally invented in my head by mashing random words I've read together?

[Riggswolfe]

Ok guys. You have one major problem when it comes to Nero. You're trying to think about him and his actions logically. Stop that shit. It's not. He's not. He's nucking futz and everyone knows it including his crew. Nero is Spock's Khan. Did Khan fly off with his new ship to go find a home for his people and revel in the fact that he escaped that planet? Hell no. He hunted down Kirk and fought to the death even when offered mercy. Sound familiar? Had Nero been sane enough to go the Romulans and tell them what was coming as well as give them his ship the movie never would have happened.

Nero doesn't give a shit about the Romulans. He doesn't care about his crew. He doesn't care about himself. Nero died when his wife died. All he cared about was hurting Spock as much as possible. That's it. That's why he waited 20+ years. We're talking about a man who shaved his head and tatooed every inch of skin. a man who committed genocide simply to hurt his opponent. Ahab? Ahab was an amateur when it came to obsession compared to Nero. Nero would have literally gutted his best friend if it would help him hurt Spock.

[kaid]

My biggest problem with star trek is the whole omg vulcan blew up and now vulcans are an endangered species. Okay people vulcans are one of the oldest know warp capable civlilizations. If they were not logical enough to colonize a whole bunch of other planets then they deserve to go extinct.

[HaemishM]

You also seem to be forgetting that Nero was a "working-class" guy. Chances he would think about all the options that his time-travel allowed him are pretty low, especially when he's in a heightened emotional state of grief. Sure, it might have occurred to him in that 20 years time to help the Romulans, but for him, it was more about killing the guy that killed his wife. It was more Death Wish than Machiavelli.

[stray]

I thought Nero was a Reman or something? The whole Romulan slave-caste thing that were stuck with life as miners and weren't overly-fond of the Romulan government and Tal Shiar or is that one of those things I've totally invented in my head by mashing random words I've read together?

News to me. There's actually something called a Reman?

[Rishathra]

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Reman

[Merusk]

Ok then, fuck Nero, how about his crew.  They were all fanatically devoted to him beyond all reason, or are you saying that they all had some PTSD and would have gladly slit their own throats just to appease their only tie to the lives they knew?  None of them, NOT A ONE, said "eh.. guys why teh fuck are we doin' this?" in 20 years?

I'm glad I waited on the movie.  It barely rose to my low expectations.  The actors were solid in their character portrayals, but the movie was a special effects blockbuster with a plot so thin I was afraid to sneeze. Fandom and hope keeps it alive, but it was as weak as 5.

[Ingmar]

Man, you might need to rewatch 5. 

[Merusk]

Possibly.  I've only seen it once, when it was on Cable right before Undiscovered Country came out so it's been a long, long time.   I do remember it was awful, and I disliked this one about as much as it.

[stray]

Fandom and hope do not keep it alive. The only people who bitch about it seems to be Trek fans. OTOH I know quite a few non Trek fans who enjoyed this movie. It's just fun summer schlock, and yes, while the plot isn't well thought out, not many people care. I don't blame them either.

And 5 is much sillier, I agree. But Kirk was pretty cool in it. Defiant till the end.. "What would God need with a starship?"

[Riggswolfe]

Ok then, fuck Nero, how about his crew.  They were all fanatically devoted to him beyond all reason, or are you saying that they all had some PTSD and would have gladly slit their own throats just to appease their only tie to the lives they knew?  None of them, NOT A ONE, said "eh.. guys why teh fuck are we doin' this?" in 20 years?

I'm glad I waited on the movie.  It barely rose to my low expectations.  The actors were solid in their character portrayals, but the movie was a special effects blockbuster with a plot so thin I was afraid to sneeze. Fandom and hope keeps it alive, but it was as weak as 5.

First, comparing this one to 5 makes me suspect you're just trying to start something.

As for his crew two things: 1) Who says some of them didn't? Their frozen corpses are probably still out in space somewhere. and 2) we all know how psychology works and how easy it is for people to get wrapped up in following their leader even against their own best interests. Combine that with the fact that all of them lost everything and everyone they loved and yes, it's probably that most of them latched onto Nero as the one thing in their lives that still made sense. "Nero ordered us to wait for Spock no matter how long it takes then we're going to destroy Vulcan? Thank god someone knows what to do!"

[stray]

I'm just gonna say this movie isn't for left brain thinkers.

In fact, most movies probably aren't for left brain thinkers. Me, I can appreciate some space explosions. And just plain ole explosions too. Can't get enough of them. Yes, I'm stupid. Ignorance is bliss. I, for one, would consider it a living hell if my mind had to analyze everything all the time.

And if you think you lowered the bar in giving it a chance, then you probably didn't. You have no idea how low the bar can go.

[Merusk]

In fact, most movies probably aren't for left brain thinkers. Me, I can appreciate some space explosions. And just plain ole explosions too. Can't get enough of them. Yes, I'm stupid. Ignorance is bliss. I, for one, would consider it a living hell if my mind had to analyze everything all the time.

  

First, comparing this one to 5 makes me suspect you're just trying to start something.

No, I just apparently don't remember 5 being as godawful as you all do.  Again, I only saw it once.  So, instead, lets say it's as bad as the TNG one with the stretchy-skin people.  This one was pretty bad. Sorry, it was.   I have nothing invested in Trek, so it's not "zomg they ruined Trek!"  If anything I'm a Star Wars geek of WUA's caliber, so I can forgive some pretty shitty stuff.  However, this movie was 'meh'ville. Sorry.

[Ratman_tf]

See now, and like I said earlier, I can forgive the tissue thin story if the characters are good. But all the characters except for young Spock were crap. Kirk was dull, Bones was annoying, and the rest didn't matter anyway. That left the action and explosions. Eh. They were alright, but not enough to float the rest of the movie.

The only thing I can praise is that it seems the crew and actors were having fun. So I guess "E" for effort?

[stray]

I thought Bones was on the money. And that's coming from someone who sort of disliked Karl Urban.. I thought he was just another square jawed idiot actor. No one could have done a better Bones.. Except Gary Sinise.

[UnSub]

My biggest problem with star trek is the whole omg vulcan blew up and now vulcans are an endangered species. Okay people vulcans are one of the oldest know warp capable civlilizations. If they were not logical enough to colonize a whole bunch of other planets then they deserve to go extinct.

In all likelihood, it was a fake dramatic act. Sure, Vulcan is destroyed, but the film ends with Vulcan colonies being set-up elsewhere, plus whatever planets / colonies / expansions they already had. The Vulcan people will continue. Although the new movies / lore could capitalise on this change - losing one's homeworld certainly hurts a civilisation and perhaps there would be those looking to take advantage of that power gap - the reality is it will probably be something for Vulcans to go emo over but mostly ignore. Or have some psycho Vulcan who uses logic about losing his homeworld to explain why he should kill everyone else, or something.

[stray]

That'll be interesting at least. Vulcans are pretty hardcore once they're pissed. Having Spock torn between it would make for a good story. Even if a bit predictable.

[Riggswolfe]

No, I just apparently don't remember 5 being as godawful as you all do.  Again, I only saw it once.  So, instead, lets say it's as bad as the TNG one with the stretchy-skin people.  This one was pretty bad. Sorry, it was.   I have nothing invested in Trek, so it's not "zomg they ruined Trek!"  If anything I'm a Star Wars geek of WUA's caliber, so I can forgive some pretty shitty stuff.  However, this movie was 'meh'ville. Sorry.

5 isn't just bad for a Trek movie. It's bad in general. Same thing with the TNG stretchy skin people Really, all of the TNG movies except First Contact suck.

This one is in a dead heat with Wrath of Khan for best Trek movie IMO. Your mileage is obviously measured on a totally different scale than mine. I thought they did a great job with the characters and while the plot had some weird elements in it I am able to rationalize most of them away and I moreover I like why they did what they did. The intent is true genius. They've managed to bring back the original characters that alot of people loved while simultaneously ejecting that heavy baggage known as canon. There is no canon in the new movies. Whatever they do, that is now canon. I think that's the real reason Vulcan was destroyed to be blunt. I can't think of a more explicit way to say "this is not going to happen the way you think it is."

I am curious to see if they keep being ballsy in the sequels. If this were Batman we'd be at the point now where we wonder if the next movie is Batman Forever or the Dark Knight. And that is all going to come down to two things IMO: 1) if JJ and the others stay passionate and 2) if Paramount gets stupid and tells them to rein it in for the next one.

Finally, I'll end this post with a terrifying thought: Paramount is not just responsible for Star Trek, they're also responsible for Transformers. It's enough to give you nightmares if you ponder a studio executive going "I know how to make more money in Star Trek 2! We have Bay direct it!!!!"

[apocrypha]

I watched Wrath of Khan again recently, after having not seen it for over 10 years. I'm sorry to say that it hadn't aged well, although Ricardo Montalban still completely stole the show. It's a good film, it's just showing it's age a lot.

As for this Star Trek film, I liked it a lot, which surprised me. Simon Pegg was the low point of it and badly miscast IMO but other than that it was very enjoyable. It's just easy entertainment and sometimes that's just what I need.

[Ubvman]

(snip)

No, I just apparently don't remember 5 being as godawful as you all do.  Again, I only saw it once.  So, instead, lets say it's as bad as the TNG one with the stretchy-skin people.  This one was pretty bad. Sorry, it was.   I have nothing invested in Trek, so it's not "zomg they ruined Trek!"  If anything I'm a Star Wars geek of WUA's caliber, so I can forgive some pretty shitty stuff.  However, this movie was 'meh'ville. Sorry.

ST:V is not half as bad as so many people make it up to be. I agree on that. It had some good bits in it.

On the other hand, the TNG movie with the stretchy skin people - Insurrection; was a stretched (weak pun intended) 2 hour TNG TV episode. And not one of the better TNG TV episodes at that. It was like just one of those annoying artificial crisis episodes with Picard (or Troi or Data or Wesley...) whinging over some stupid situation or the other with nothing really happening on screen. It was weak, whiny, unmemorable and commits the worst sin ever for a movie like this - it was BORING.

Whatever else can be said about the new Star Trek movie - it wasn't boring.
(big dose of IMHO of course)

[Ironwood]

 Same thing with the TNG stretchy skin people Really, all of the TNG movies except First Contact suck.

 

[stray]

I liked First Contact as well. Borg Queen is a hot bitch (it's that crazy milf I think.. who's probably like 80 years old.. but for some reason, she's always kind of sexy to me  ). In fact, I was turned off by Star Trek for years until I saw that movie..

Generations is kind of fun too. Malcolm McDowell is also a hot bitch.

[Ingmar]

Random anecdote: I have a friend who used to work at ILM, and did at the time they were doing some post-production work on First Contact. Apparently one of the things his team had to work on was removing the Borg Queen's 'moustache' (his words) from close-up shots.

[stray]

Well, I did call Malcolm McDowell a hot bitch as well. Maybe I just like old grizzly men..even if they're women.  

[Sir T]

First Contact was so awful it caused me and my fiance to break up. True story.