Where's the "This Game Sucks" thread?

[Lum]

Yay titles. They didn't work for me in CoH either.

Not trying to be an ass, but that's like one of the most insulting incentives to play a game, in my mind. Yet, it somehow works for many other people.

My Dark Elf spent a solid half hour jumping off cliffs so I could get the AHHHHHHHHHHHH title. Some titles are better than others.

[HaemishM]

It does not change the fact that lower levels are much much underpowered vs someone 5 ranks higher - much more than the current bloster buff can add. If we compare apples vs apples, a premade group of rank 1s vs a premade group of rank 7+ will have their ass handed over to them in seconds, just as a group of skilled rank 7+ will eat a equally skilled group of rank 1s.

Yes, but I was able to score near the top of the DPS list in the scenarios as a level 1 Bright Wizard. You don't get all your tools, but you get enough not to be a complete waste of space.

This. I actually found myself doing quite well as a level 4-5 guy raised up to rank 8 in the Nordenwatch scenarios. I was actually doing better with that than I did with the Chaos Marauder in open beta.

[Abelian75]

I really feel like the whole "this game has sucky PvE, don't play it for the PvE" thing is getting overblown.  I mean, yes, I have a hard time imagining someone enjoying it long-term if they absolutely do not like PvP.  Absolutely that's true.  But I have enjoyed the PvE game in addition to the PvP game.  It doesn't have the PvE depth of WoW, I guess (an assumption since I haven't done any dungeons, but I'm pretty sure it's a correct assumption), but there's still a lot to do, the PQ's are more varied and interesting than I would have expected, and the tome of knowledge adds a lot of fun for us lore geeks.

Obviously people are right that the game ultimately is about RvR, but I have really felt that the PvE aspects are more fun than I expected, and a lot more fun than many MMOs that ONLY really featured PvE.

Of course, if all that's meant by PvE is "raids," then yeah, I guess the PvE sucks ass.

Not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it, but I'd hate to see people turned away thinking that WAR is just full of half-assed PvE content, which I don't feel is the case at all.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Warhammer doesn't suck, it's a good game with some great parts.

Overall though it's a just good game, not great.

[veredus]

bunch of stuff about PvE

I agree completely. The PvE has been a lot better then I expected it to be. Add that to the PvP which has been a blast and I am really enjoying myself. The two go together very well I think.

[Rasix]

Not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it, but I'd hate to see people turned away thinking that WAR is just full of half-assed PvE content, which I don't feel is the case at all.

It may be a function of where people start.  The dwarf/greenskin starting PVE (more on the dwarven side, I haven't played greenskin in months) is just plain terrible. Quests are spread out, the XP rewards seemed poor, and there seemed to be perceptible gaps in progression.  Or perhaps the thing is just laid out so poorly this just seems to be the case. 

I played around with a bright wizard last night and it was noticeably different.  Quests were plentiful, gave good exp, and were logically laid out. Hell, the first area even had a scenario quest guy and renown merchants.  I know this is just a hiccup in the overall amount of time you're going to spend in the game, but the first impression (and that goes a long way) is significantly better.  I would continue to play the Empire PVE where as I've pretty much given up on the dwarven PVE and have been leveling 100% through scenarios.

[tazelbain]

Warhammer doesn't suck, it's a good game with some great parts.

Overall though it's a just good game, not great.

I agree with this.  I don't any reason to believe the WAR couldn't be a great game if they don't sit on their hands like DAoC.

[Abelian75]

Man, see, I really loved the dwarf content.  Maybe it's just cuz I like beer, I dunno.

I mean, there's a PQ that contains monsters called Beerthirstin' Squigs.  How can you NOT love that?

Edit:  Oh, you're right about the layout though.  Empire/chaos definitely seems the best in that the warcamps are right next to a chapter hub and make a natural bind point.  I do find myself running around awkwardly in the dwarf area a lot.  But I do like the actual content itself.

[veredus]

In response to Raix

When I made my Witch Hunter I did wonder why the High Elf and Dwarf area didn't have a starter area like the Empire one, mailbox, renown merchants and all that jazz. Adding that stuff I would think would be farily easy for the Dwarf/High Elf areas. But I still enjoyed those areas.

[Riggswolfe]

Yay titles. They didn't work for me in CoH either.

Not trying to be an ass, but that's like one of the most insulting incentives to play a game, in my mind. Yet, it somehow works for many other people.

So I take it you don't like Achievements in Xbox 360 either? These are achievements and you get to display them!

[Sjofn]

In response to Raix

When I made my Witch Hunter I did wonder why the High Elf and Dwarf area didn't have a starter area like the Empire one, mailbox, renown merchants and all that jazz. Adding that stuff I would think would be farily easy for the Dwarf/High Elf areas. But I still enjoyed those areas.

It has a mailbox right outside the tavern, does the dwarf area. The elf area is the only one screwed in that regard.

[veredus]

That is good to know. Never even noticed it.

[Sjofn]

It does sort of blend in, I didn't know it was there until I pretty much tripped over it.

[Arthur_Parker]

Still have an itch to try this game. I'm still butthurt from AoC.

The comments that really keep me away are the 'yeah its really similar to WoW' kinda stuff. And I mean, obviously it is. Two sides. One with ebil orcs and shit. The other with elves and dwarves and shit. They hate each other and WAR it up.

The other red flags to me are a lack of responsiveness in PVP. This is a PVP game, should that not be one of the top things to get right before launch? I'll be lurking this thread to see after the one month mark how everyone feels.

My advice would be to try it now, the major problem I see long term is population at low levels.  If you play order at the minute you will get the low level scenarios to pop virtually instantly.

In open beta I leveled up to rank 5 just via pvp.  Even later on, pvp instance leveling is maybe even faster than doing quests.  I think WoW is a great game but not designed for me, items don't really interest me.  At level 17 in WAR I had already taken part in a massive keep siege, logged out went to bed, logged in about 10 hours later to find the same battle still going on.  Dropping burning oil on scum trying to break down your keep door is time well spent, plus you don't need special skills to use siege weapons, I was using cannons & hell blasters in the same battle.

I wanted a mount at level 20 asap, just for speed, so did quests this evening for a change.  I normally hate grouping for pve but tonight I got sucked into grouping for 3 public quests, just because I was doing normal quests in the same area, and finished them all.  I am in a large guild and I am running a high spec pc with Vista 64, so I luckily I don't get any performance issues at all.  I found WAR does gets slightly grindy in the teens so you have to visit the other two realms for quests unless you want to stick to instance pvp, but now at rank 20 I'm going to be into T3 soon and I'm a bit sad as I wanted to stay longer at the top end of T2 for pvp.

[Register]

It does not change the fact that lower levels are much much underpowered vs someone 5 ranks higher - much more than the current bloster buff can add. If we compare apples vs apples, a premade group of rank 1s vs a premade group of rank 7+ will have their ass handed over to them in seconds, just as a group of skilled rank 7+ will eat a equally skilled group of rank 1s.

Yes, but I was able to score near the top of the DPS list in the scenarios as a level 1 Bright Wizard. You don't get all your tools, but you get enough not to be a complete waste of space.

Rank 1s doing fine in scenarios :

1) Both side are evenly matched in levels - not many higher ranks or they end up neutralizing each other.
2) You're ranged dps or healer and your front line is holding somewhat so that you can heal / nuke from behind
3) You're not melee

Many other times you don't get 1, 2 or 3, and what happens is that the lower ranked side gets swept - because their side is simply too underpowered. It's very frustrating, especially on a server where one side (cough destruction) is already dominant, and it can lead to people jumping to the other side, or not queuing up for scenarios leading to longer and longer wait each time round.

[stray]

Yay titles. They didn't work for me in CoH either.

Not trying to be an ass, but that's like one of the most insulting incentives to play a game, in my mind. Yet, it somehow works for many other people.

So I take it you don't like Achievements in Xbox 360 either? These are achievements and you get to display them!

Nope, I'm not concerned about 360 achievements either.

[Hawkbit]

I wanted a mount at level 20 asap, just for speed, so did quests this evening for a change.  I normally hate grouping for pve but tonight I got sucked into grouping for 3 public quests, just because I was doing normal quests in the same area, and finished them all.  I am in a large guild and I am running a high spec pc with Vista 64, so I luckily I don't get any performance issues at all.  I found WAR does gets slightly grindy in the teens so you have to visit the other two realms for quests unless you want to stick to instance pvp, but now at rank 20 I'm going to be into T3 soon and I'm a bit sad as I wanted to stay longer at the top end of T2 for pvp.

I'm in the same boat.  I'm very close to 20, and once I get there I'll chill for a bit and maybe work on an alt casually instead of just gung-ho on one toon.  I need to get one toon up into the top game because that's where it's all going to be at in a few weeks. 

[Khaldun]

One thing that I'm really hoping Mythic is brainstorming some creative solutions to is the problem of realm imbalance. On the medium-to-low pop server I'm on now as a Destruction player, there are so few Order players that large parts of the gameworld are utterly uninhabited.

[tazelbain]

Really if they had any good ideas they be would using them.  if you had a solution, you don't want until you have large imbalances to implement it.  A +10% exp bonus or some such bs isn't going to do shit.  The added bonus is that low pop servers are basically locked out of the end-game.  I suspect we are going get Mythic classic "Wait and see" strategy.  Wait until the problem is massive and see about fixing it when is too late.

[UnsGub]

if you had a solution, you don't want until you have large imbalances to implement it.

The solution is easy.  Merge servers.  Logistics might not be easy but every MMO has to design for merging servers as it will occur even in the most popular game over its lifespan.

My guild of +100 was on a Med\Med (low end) server and we just rerolled.  We are now on a high\high and it is a totally different game.  Old server had no Tier 1 or 2 RvR.  New server constant Tier 1 and 2 RvR.  Old server no PQs, new server about half the PQs have people.

PvP games are totally dependent on other players.  MMOs are almost as depend as it main feature is large group of players.  No players then no game.  It does not help when the design divides each of the two side by another third like Warhammer has done.

[HaemishM]

My advice would be to try it now, the major problem I see long term is population at low levels.  If you play order at the minute you will get the low level scenarios to pop virtually instantly.

I think this is going to become a serious issue. Hell, I only missed about a week of play time, and already I was having problems last night finishing a low level PQ. There just weren't enough people my level in the Empire area working on two of the three PQ's for that area. I banged on one almost solo through the first stage and then died in the second stage because I couldn't solo three champion mobs. That will only get worse, and it will cascade into the lower PVP scenarios and RVR areas as the population levels up.

Having cross-server PVP like they added in DAoC would help the PVP scenario problem. But really, those areas are going to be barren six months from now and new players are going to be stuck PVE'ing with quests and grinding to get to a level where they can enjoy the game. DAoC had this problem with battlegrounds and PVE the last time I was back, big time. They did add the free levels and such to get over it, but it is going to be a huge problem long-term.

[rattran]

I think the problem with Tier 1 pqs is people are jumping to the scenario queues and simply outleveling them. In Empire Tier 1 I typically only see the Burning Windmill being done, as it's on the main path, and pretty straightforward. The reward for the chap 1 pq are nice, but discarded by level 5.

Chapter 6/7/8 Empire have had people pretty consistently at them from what I've seen. At least the obvious ones near the roads.

[Righ]

I can't see a solution that doesn't involve some serious server/database redesign. The game needs a certain number of people on each side in any given area for it to work as intended. If you level too fast or too slow, you may miss out on much of what the game offers. If there is a steady stream of new players at lower tiers as the first wave moves on, unless you have substantial player churn at T4/RR70 the areas there will fill up too much and the contested areas will become unplayable. It seems to be a basic design error.

The 'realms' need to be bigger and less tangible - allow 100 times as many people on a realm, but instance the hell out of each area. That way people can play together when they want to, the queues are at the instance level (a subset Bat Country wants to get into an instance of Dwarf chapter 10 PQ together, and queues together because they don't fit into an existing instance but are not populous enough to cause a new instance to spawn). When you hit non-peak hours, there are still enough people in a 'realm' this large to keep PQs and scenarios in at least one instance going. That works for the non-keep parts. It somewhat buggers up keeps however, since the client cannot cope well with very large raids and even if it could the keep sizes themselves limit numbers to at best a couple of hundred players. Instancing keeps seems counter to the 'spoils of war' - the map still show destro and you have no access to buffs or merchants after you've had victories in 3 instances of the same keep because the scrubs in 4 other instances are getting rolled.

[Ingmar]

My advice would be to try it now, the major problem I see long term is population at low levels.  If you play order at the minute you will get the low level scenarios to pop virtually instantly.

I think this is going to become a serious issue. Hell, I only missed about a week of play time, and already I was having problems last night finishing a low level PQ. There just weren't enough people my level in the Empire area working on two of the three PQ's for that area. I banged on one almost solo through the first stage and then died in the second stage because I couldn't solo three champion mobs. That will only get worse, and it will cascade into the lower PVP scenarios and RVR areas as the population levels up.

Having cross-server PVP like they added in DAoC would help the PVP scenario problem. But really, those areas are going to be barren six months from now and new players are going to be stuck PVE'ing with quests and grinding to get to a level where they can enjoy the game. DAoC had this problem with battlegrounds and PVE the last time I was back, big time. They did add the free levels and such to get over it, but it is going to be a huge problem long-term.

This is a problem with some PQs just right off the bat, even at release. Empire chapter 2 for example, almost everyone just does the windmill one and ignores the other two mostly, even at release. I kind of think they may have overdone the amount of PQs a little bit.

[Arthur_Parker]

I'm sure way back when the game was first being discussed one of the devs mentioned they had some nifty top secret way of balancing the populations.  I'll see if I can dig out some quotes.

[eldaec]

I'm sure way back when the game was first being discussed one of the devs mentioned they had some nifty top secret way of balancing the populations.  I'll see if I can dig out some quotes.

They said they'd use npcs, and base the number of npcs on surper seekit magic formula that took account of gear and realm rank and other shit.

[Simond]

if you had a solution, you don't want until you have large imbalances to implement it.

The solution is easy.  Merge servers.  Logistics might not be easy but every MMO has to design for merging servers as it will occur even in the most popular game over its lifespan.

If every server has a >2:1 D:O ratio, then merging servers will just lead to longer queues for Destruction on the 'new' server...and a >2:1 D:O ratio.

[Draegan]

PQs in T2 Empire are always busy on Azazel.  Some of them are empty but there is usually something going on in atleast one per chapter where you can complete it.  Use the open group and fish around and see what's going on.

[murdoc]

Free transfers and server merges aren't gonna fix the D >> O issue that I think pretty much every server has. Currently the server I'm on his 40+ min queues for Destro during primetime and weekends, Order hasn't had any. There's no real way to fix that other than hope that a couple hundred of the Destro players in the queue get sick of them and roll an Order char.

[schild]

Once again: Ulthuan still needs order players. And the f13 guild ain't tiny. And we don't have queues, sucka.

[murdoc]

My only two Order chars are on Ulthuan ^^ I might even play them sometimes.

[slog]

Free transfers and server merges aren't gonna fix the D >> O issue that I think pretty much every server has. Currently the server I'm on his 40+ min queues for Destro during primetime and weekends, Order hasn't had any. There's no real way to fix that other than hope that a couple hundred of the Destro players in the queue get sick of them and roll an Order char.

I think Mythic really needs to address this if they hope to retain players.  RvR depends on roughly equal sides.

[Khaldun]

When you do get a lot of people showing up for world PvP, things start to lag pretty brutally from what I've seen. In fact, it's been worse each successive time I've seen it.

[nurtsi]

Ran into a weird bug yesterday. Was doing some T1 dark elf PVE (kill spiders, bears, wolves). Suddenly I get disconnected, I log back in after wading through the EULA stuff (took me maybe a minute or two to get back in the game) and I notice I've lost some of my quest progression. Not a big deal, it only takes less than 5 min to redo the quests I lost, but I wonder how often they flush data to their database (or did they do a ninja rollback). I can already imagine the rage when you lose loot to this.

And is it just me, but the UI is buggy as hell. Loot windows don't close (happens every day) even though you shift-click or click loot all (you get the stuff, but the dialog just doesn't close unless you click the 'x'). You get disconnected and you have the server list, and EULA overlapping in the server selection screen. If you are queued to scenario and click the "I need a minute" then that dialog's 'join' button is covered by the insanely large PQ loot button and there's no way to click on the 'join' because it always goes to PQ rewards so you can't get in the scenario. All this running windowed mode in 1024x768, dunno if it's the same with larger resolutions.

[UnSub]

Free transfers and server merges aren't gonna fix the D >> O issue that I think pretty much every server has. Currently the server I'm on his 40+ min queues for Destro during primetime and weekends, Order hasn't had any. There's no real way to fix that other than hope that a couple hundred of the Destro players in the queue get sick of them and roll an Order char.

I think Mythic really needs to address this if they hope to retain players.  RvR depends on roughly equal sides.

This will sort itself out automatically according to the WAR devs. It turns out that beta testers have a neutral evil alignment on the whole.

(I disagree because in WAR, Order doesn't save the princess and get the shiny armour. They get to halt Chaos for now by burning the princess at the stake, possibly corrupted by Chaos taint and the best they can hope for is a clean death in a shallow grave. Destruction has the "We are gonna win, it's just a matter of time" coolness to them. If Mythic doesn't want Destruction to be as popular as it is, they needed to make them uglier - Chaos mutations you wouldn't want and that disfigure you, not make you look even more awesome.)