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Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls Online  (Read 755971 times)
Ingmar
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Reply #490 on: June 09, 2012, 01:13:37 PM

I can deal with FPS-ish combat a lot easier when it involves guns, to the point where I actually liked the combat in ME2/ME3. But not with swords.

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Reply #491 on: June 10, 2012, 03:26:30 AM

My tastes are almost the complete opposite; I like Skyrim despite the combat, never played JK, and was too turned off by the fact that ME1 was a glorified FPS to make it more than halfway through. The VATS system largely saved Fallout 3/NV for me; without those I would be pretty awful and probably wouldn't have finished them either.

You're sick!

Not meaning any offense and neither mean to glorify FPS (I suck at those), but I do hope the market splits up enough to cater to both tastes.

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Reply #492 on: June 10, 2012, 05:29:40 PM

As a broad question, what has the FPS genre done to it mechanics that have extended it past its roots? The major changes I can think of are RMB for secondary weapon, crouch / crawl / lean and using cover.

I wonder why it is that MMOs can feel so stale for having stuck with core mechanics while FPS titles (which arguably haven't moved as far forward as MMOs over the same time frame) can still feel relatively fresh and fun. Time taken to "complete" a MMO versus FPS might have something to do with it, of course.

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Reply #493 on: June 10, 2012, 06:20:35 PM

As a broad question, what has the FPS genre done to it mechanics that have extended it past its roots? The major changes I can think of are RMB for secondary weapon, crouch / crawl / lean and using cover.
The roots were wolf3d/doom, and I think the main thing has been to add to the control schemes while not makin it necessarily more complex to actually use. I can't really go back and play wolf3d or doom these days without noticing that it is clunky.

The only change I really do not agree with (or disagree with at all, really), has been the addition of a cover system, since it normally takes away control for a few seconds, and selects the wrong target to cover behind too often.

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Reply #494 on: June 10, 2012, 09:51:58 PM

As a broad question, what has the FPS genre done to it mechanics that have extended it past its roots? The major changes I can think of are RMB for secondary weapon, crouch / crawl / lean and using cover.

Vehicles?

I think Neal Stephenson in that clang kickstarter video got it right. If you have a virtual world, interesting physics and immediate feedback to player actions the game can have an innate fun. And as a result making more complex environments to have the same fun in is fine. It's the action RPG model and probably going to become dominant.

It doesn't work quite so well on MMO's because the physics is either hackable or simplified to avoid killing the server, because lag means player actions are not quite as immediate or target position so exact, and because they tend to have a slower paced, party tactical focus. That's why your character tends to have lots of situational powers and thus needs a hot-bar whereas that many buttons would just slow and distract the action RPG game. I expect this approach to continue to retreat though, servers and net infrastructure keep improving and it's too "slow" for the console generation.



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Reply #495 on: June 10, 2012, 10:15:22 PM

I wonder why it is that MMOs can feel so stale for having stuck with core mechanics while FPS titles (which arguably haven't moved as far forward as MMOs over the same time frame) can still feel relatively fresh and fun.

I would argue that very few FPS games feel "fresh." However they do feel fun, because the mechanics of FPS games are pretty enjoyable.

The mechanics of MMOs by comparison are not very enjoyable - fighting the same enemies over and over using the some rotation of abilities, the level design is completely irrelevant, the mobs barely do anything, etc. The whole idea of the tank class in MMOs is to make combat as dull and predictable as possible by ensuring that fights go exactly the way players determine and mobs display zero autonomy.

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Reply #496 on: June 10, 2012, 11:26:33 PM


The mechanics of MMO's are just a foundation for interesting group dynamics and the satisfaction of precise execution.

The whole idea of the tank class in MMOs is to make combat as dull and predictable as possible by ensuring that fights go exactly the way players determine and mobs display zero autonomy.

... not really, if anything WoW almost went too far by making raid mobs have far too much capability. If anything it's FPS games that have the dumb mobs and no real diversity of mechanics to killing them because they're just target dummies.

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Fordel
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Reply #497 on: June 11, 2012, 02:21:57 AM

That again, depends entirely on the game.

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Reply #498 on: July 18, 2012, 07:56:36 AM

Here is a new interview with Matt Firor:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-07-17-the-elder-scrolls-online-reinventing-a-franchise-in-an-online-world

Quote
Q: Do you see this as something all the Skyrim fans are going to play, or is it more like you just want to create an MMO and it happens to be using Elder Scrolls lore? Who's the audience?

Matt Firor: We just want to make a good game and let people who want to play it, play it. It is an online game. MMO is a tired expression. It is an online RPG and we designed it to be a great game. People who like other Elder Scrolls games will probably want to try it, but people who play other MMOs like WoW or Star Wars are also going to want to try it too. So if it's not a good game, no one is going to want to play it. First and foremost, we want to make sure the game is sticky and fun, and that was our first priority. If we do that, all of our other questions are answered.

250 people working on the game right now.

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Reply #499 on: July 18, 2012, 08:17:54 AM

I give the interviewer credit, as he asked the right question right out of the box.

Quote
Q: As soon as the game was announced, the biggest concern for Elder Scrolls fans was "how can they be taking this online? They are missing the point of what Elder Scrolls is!"...What was the conversation like internally with Bethesda about taking this property online?

Matt Firor: You said the thing that is the most important. It is the franchise that we are taking online, not the single-player game. The single-player games are still the single-player games. We're taking the license and the franchise online and doing something with it that hasn't been done before, much like the Elder Scrolls novels

Yeah, there's a solid comparison. I bet you this game does as well as those novels, too. Let me take a look and see how those are selling. Hmm, one from 2009 is #17,252 on the books bestseller list. One from 2011 is #35,625. The fucking Skyrim GUIDE (not a novel, not a story, a GUIDE to a single player game) is #421 on the books list.

Quote
Q: Does Todd have any kind of say in game design choices, or is it all you and he doesn't offer suggestions?

Matt Firor: He's made it clear that this is an online RPG and he is not an online RPG developer. We need to make the decisions that we need to make.

Short answer, Todd doesn't want anything to do with you fuckers establishing this game as canon lore.

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Reply #500 on: July 18, 2012, 08:21:53 AM

They have Elder Scrolls novels?

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Reply #501 on: July 18, 2012, 08:43:37 AM

Quote
We're taking the license and the franchise online and doing something with it that hasn't been done before

Is he claiming the game itself will do things that haven't been done before or just that this game will be doing something new with the franchise/brand?

I have never played WoW.
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Reply #502 on: July 18, 2012, 09:07:32 AM

The latter. This game isn't going to be breaking any ground in the MMO genre.

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Ingmar
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Reply #503 on: July 18, 2012, 11:58:58 AM

They have Elder Scrolls novels?

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Reply #504 on: July 18, 2012, 06:39:14 PM

They have Elder Scrolls novels?

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Reply #505 on: July 19, 2012, 05:17:54 AM

Since I'm pretty sure there were cat people but not ape people in TES, I'd go with Tiger.

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Lantyssa
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Reply #506 on: July 19, 2012, 07:03:58 AM

Go Argonian or go home. Ohhhhh, I see.

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Reply #507 on: July 19, 2012, 07:59:25 AM

Since I'm pretty sure there were ... not ape people in TES...

Imga.

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Reply #508 on: July 19, 2012, 11:38:30 AM

Go Argonian or go home. Ohhhhh, I see.

I'm going home.

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Lantyssa
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Reply #509 on: July 19, 2012, 05:14:06 PM

I'd expect that from an Imga.

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Reply #510 on: July 22, 2012, 07:04:21 AM

They have Elder Scrolls novels?

Assuming you're not being facetious yes, they do. Naturally, they're pretty terrible. I believe the 2009 one was written by some dude who had no connection to the series at all.
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Reply #511 on: July 22, 2012, 10:51:43 AM

I both had no idea until Paelos mentioned it, and I was adding in the joke that, much like the novels, it wasn't going to attract the attention of Elder Scrolls fans.

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Reply #512 on: October 04, 2012, 12:02:48 PM

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-09-18-bethesda-go-anywhere-do-anything

An article from the marketing VP over at Bethesda. Normally you get PR speak, but here's my favorite quote in the whole damn thing.

Quote
In one sense it does give us a sense of confidence in terms of people being aware of the Elder Scrolls," he says, "but we recognise that, while there are certainly a number of things about Elder Scrolls Online that share a commonality with Skyrim - setting, tone, themes, very basic things like races and exploring and being able to go where you want - it's also a very different kind of game. There are things that you can get away with and pull off in a single player game that you simply can't do in a multiplayer game.

Part of what makes a Fallout or a Skyrim great is that we can custom craft the entire experience to be about you. There's no game balancing issues, like how are you versus this other person; there is no other person... Nobody else can screw with your experience. With an MMO, that changes to the nth degree. We now have to worry about if you found that sword, how does that sword change your relationship with everybody else in the world. And what you can do in PvP, and how much you can sell that for, and all of those different things are a huge shift.

Even the PR guy has to admit they've taken a left turn here.

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Reply #513 on: October 04, 2012, 01:28:19 PM

Go Argonian or go home. Ohhhhh, I see.

I'm going home.
So going the Lusty Argonian Maid route.

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Reply #514 on: October 22, 2012, 04:07:53 PM

Ton of new articles out today, following some sort of preview event.

Interesting stuff.  Here's one that has a lot of info, but there are many more:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2012/10/eso-media-event/

Edit to add this link - it has a nice clean list of most of the new info:

http://acolytesguild.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/elder-scrolls-online-preview/

It almost sounds like the devs listened to some of the criticism and refocused their efforts to appease the fan base.  Inconceivable!!

Some Highlights:

 - Megaserver - everyone is on the same server.  They manage RVR by having "campaigns" or versions of Cyrodiil that your character(s) is tied to.  You and everyone in that campaign are persistently at war with each other.  It sounds like a very sophisticated kind of instancing.

 - Combat - it seems likey they have continued to tweak the combat to be more action oriented.  There is soft targetting, but you can, optionally, lock your target in.  You use the mouse buttons to swing main weapon, and block, and a combination of those two will trigger a shield bash or something equivalent if you don't have  a shield.  Still lots of talk about combos, and reactions, etc.  Reviewers all sound more positive than the stuff we heard in May.

 - Graphics - none of the complaints we heard about graphics from the early articles seem to be present.  The screenshots look pretty awesome, imo.

Overall, it sounds like these guys are pulling out all the stops.  It makes SWTOR seem very low budget/rushed in comparison.  Well that's my perception.  I'm a silly fanboy, though.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 04:44:21 PM by blackwulf »
Ingmar
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Reply #515 on: October 22, 2012, 04:37:48 PM

They have a lot more done than I would have expected at this point.

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Reply #516 on: October 22, 2012, 05:22:58 PM


Quote
We’ll never have to close shards because they are empty, and there will never be server queues.

 awesome, for real

I am interested in their claims that the game will put you in instances of zones alongside people you normally group with, or whatever.  Given that I usually avoid other people like the plague, does that mean I'll eventually get my own instance of each zone all to myself?

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Reply #517 on: October 22, 2012, 06:47:33 PM

Hah, if they fail, they deserve to.
This MMO has no reason to exist. Warning signs already there. People weren't asking for this.

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Reply #518 on: October 22, 2012, 07:08:10 PM

They have a lot more done than I would have expected at this point.

I think this is supposed to go live next year, is it not?

Combat is really the only thing I noticed there that jumped out at me as encouraging.

Not sure how I feel about the targeting system: I am beyond bored with tab targeting at this point, and this sounds like a half step away from that.  So, on the one hand, great that they're at least moving away... but on the other hand, I can't help but be worried that this is still basically tab targeting just dolled up to look like something else.  I hope that it won't do more harm than good in the service of looking kind of slightly more superficially similar to a game is fundamentally quite different.
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Reply #519 on: October 23, 2012, 01:07:27 AM


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Reply #520 on: October 23, 2012, 07:02:30 AM

They have a lot more done than I would have expected at this point.

Looks like they are using a good deal of models and such from skyrim.

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Reply #521 on: October 23, 2012, 08:32:38 PM

Well, the good thing about this is no one is going to be disappointed.

Except maybe blackwulf, but if we all give him a group-hug I am sure he'll get over it.

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Reply #522 on: October 23, 2012, 08:49:23 PM

Very sweet - yes, I will take any hugs that are sent my way!

Also -

Here's an interview with Matt Firor that covers a lot of the info regarding megaserver, combat, pvp, etc.: http://mmohuts.com/videos/elder-scrolls-online-reveal-interview
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Reply #523 on: October 24, 2012, 01:51:39 AM

Who art thou, blackwulf? Head scratch

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Reply #524 on: October 24, 2012, 06:48:15 AM

The combat does sound like they listened to the people who thought tab-target was spitting in the face of the franchise.

I'm not sure how much they can overhaul that, though. In the first round of information they were pimping ability synergies. Can you do both? We'll see.

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