Fringe

[Engels]

yesss. this is the fringe I know and love. weird crap in dismal places with a light sprinkling of paranoia!

[HaemishM]

Yep, great episode. Totally expected that ending, but really who didn't? Cannot wait to see Anna Torv as a brunette next week.

[Tannhauser]

Good season-ender, but who didn't see that 'twist' coming a mile away?  Glad it happened though, I like the other universe.  Walter's face at the end was amazing, damn but can that guy act!

[HaemishM]

Yeah, it wasn't a blockbuster ZOMG finale, but a really good set up for next season. After Dunham plants a huge kiss on Peter, now we have next season where all that sexual tension is going to be completely misplaced.

[tazelbain]

Solid start.  Walternate is just as crazy.

[Der Helm]

Solid start.  Walternate is just as crazy.

wtf... it's back ?   


 

[Tannhauser]

Kind of slow going at first, but it picked up steam and the ending was NOT what I was expecting! 

[Der Helm]

I am not sure I like the new season as much as the last ones, but I am quite curious as to where they want to go with the story on this one.

[Surlyboi]

Was talking to a friend about Fringe and he remarked that he wished there were less of the psychic serial killer of the week filler episodes. I agreed. That said, the psychic serial killer episode in the walternate universe was interesting and kind of served to both forward the Olivia/Bolivia story and highlight some of the differences in that world vs ours.

[Surlyboi]

This show is so good right now.

[tazelbain]

Up until season 3, I always thought Anna Trov was the weaklink of the show.  But she has done such an excellent job making the two Olivias distinct characters.

The story arch really feels like it is going places.

[Surlyboi]

And her accent doesn't slip every 10 minutes anymore either. 

[tazelbain]

Fringe is moving to Fridays.

[Tannhauser]

On Fox on a Friday night?  Kiss of Death.  I hope Good Guys hasn't been canned. Fringe is really solid right now, love every aspect of it.  If I had to nitpick

[Merusk]

2nd time the show's moved in 3 years.  Someone wants it dead in favor of even more reality show programming.  (Apparently American Idol is going into Frigne's old timeslot)

[Surlyboi]

2nd time the show's moved in 3 years.  Someone wants it dead in favor of even more reality show programming.  (Apparently American Idol is going into Frigne's old timeslot)

What. The. Fuck.

I fucking hate Fox.

[Trippy]

Actually it is Glee's fault

(Glee is keeping its Tuesday spot which is why AI is moving to Wednesday/Thursday).

[Merusk]

So they're moving to the 9pm spot on Thursday, when the 8pm slot is equally available?  

"No, no.  That'd mean moving Bones.. can't have that.  Move that shitty sci-fi show. Nobody likes sci-fi except nerds and they'll watch it whenever we put it.  It's not like they go out on Fridays."

Or, hey. They could have put AI on Tuesday at 9pm, since they're willing to do a 9pm thing and the results show on Wednesday in place of Human Target or Hell's Kitchen, moving one of them to Friday.

Given Fox's history and treatment of Sci-Fi shows AND having that confirmed several times by Warburton when interviewed about The Tick, I have no reason to believe it's anything other than an attempt to kill the show.

[Trippy]

So they're moving to the 9pm spot on Thursday, when the 8pm slot is equally available?  

"No, no.  That'd mean moving Bones.. can't have that.  Move that shitty sci-fi show. Nobody likes sci-fi except nerds and they'll watch it whenever we put it.  It's not like they go out on Fridays."

Or, hey. They could have put AI on Tuesday at 9pm, since they're willing to do a 9pm thing and the results show on Wednesday in place of Human Target or Hell's Kitchen, moving one of them to Friday.

Given Fox's history and treatment of Sci-Fi shows AND having that confirmed several times by Warburton when interviewed about The Tick, I have no reason to believe it's anything other than an attempt to kill the show.

I'm not sure which idea is more stupid from a programming standpoint: putting the AI performance show at 9pm so it can't be used as the lead-in or putting AI on the same night as Glee which is currently the #1 scripted show in the coveted 18-49 category. Last season Glee was after AI in the 2nd half of the season cause FOX wanted to give Glee the best chance for success (which has paid off so far this season) but Glee can now clearly stand on its own.

For FOX its best shows going into the 2nd half are AI, Glee, House, and The Simpsons, and all are being used as lead-ins at 8pm. House is Monday, Glee is Tuesday, AI is Wednesday and Thursday and The Simpsons is Sunday (which I'll ignore for the rest of the discussion since that's animation night at FOX). The leaves 6 hours of programming on the weekdays which has to be filled by a mixture of existing shows and new shows FOX wants to test out. Bones is doing okay (about 2x the numbers of Fringe) so it gets to stay on Thursday but moved to 9pm after AI. FOX is keeping Raising Hope (which is doing well) after Glee, so on Tuesday that only leaves a half hour slot for a show (Mixed Signals, a new show). Wednesday is problematic cause some of the AI performance shows will be 90 minutes (presumably to maximize ad dollars) so you can't stick a full half season one hour show after it (Human Target will finish its season and then there will be a new 30 minute show Breaking In).

So that leaves Monday at 9pm and Friday at 8pm and 9pm. Even though both Fringe and Lie to Me are doing poorly Lie to Me, for whatever reason, got the Monday 9pm slot. That means Fringe gets Friday at 9pm after Kitchen Nightmares which sucks for Fringe but is still better than being outright canceled for the rest of the season.

[Tannhauser]

Excellent analysis.

Our only hope now is that Rupert Murdoch really loves his niece.

[Engels]

Trippy, not to be snipe-y, since the information is interesting, but how do you know all this stuff? Just years of observation, or have you worked in the industry?

[Trippy]

http://tvbythenumbers.com/

[Mrbloodworth]

Is Hulu counted by the ratings gods?

If fringe gets canceled on FOX, i bet Sci-Fi will snap it up in a heartbeat.

[Rishathra]

Why would they do that?  It's a science fiction show.

[Trippy]

Is Hulu counted by the ratings gods?

Nielsen television ratings are meant to measure the "live" and same day viewership numbers. Hulu doesn't show television episodes until the day after. Because the Nielsen ratings are one of the inputs used to calculate advertising costs and ads are often "time sensitive"* it wouldn't make sense to include online viewership numbers into the regular Nielsen ratings.

* E.g. one of the reasons why the broadcast networks, except for FOX until they shifted AI, compete so heavily on Thursdays is because the movie studios pay big bucks for prime time ad space to show trailers on that day.

[Mrbloodworth]

Well then someone needs to get with the times then. I suspect a good chunk of the shows viewership are people like us, that stream and play games or something.

Why would they do that?  It's a science fiction show.

 

[Merusk]

I hadn't even considered the lead-in effect, Trippy, you make a good point.   I'm don't analyze things on Fox that much anymore because any show I get invested in gets canceled or run into the ground so as to be painful (Simpsons & Family Guy).  I was posting out of emotion, not rationale.

Well then someone needs to get with the times then. I suspect a good chunk of the shows viewership are people like us, that stream and play games or something.

Last I heard details on it they don't count time-shifted viewing either.  Ratings are all about how many people were sitting there watching your commercials, not the show.   Time shifters bypass the whole "must watch commercials" thing.   

As for "people like us" if you mean 20 somethings to lower 30's you'd be right from what I've read.   Mid thirties and up, no, the majority watches live with a fraction time shifting.  Given the way ratings work, I expect Matlock to make a resurgence in 3 years as the demo #'s show only old people watching live TV.   

[Trippy]

I hadn't even considered the lead-in effect, Trippy, you make a good point.   I'm don't analyze things on Fox that much anymore because any show I get invested in gets canceled or run into the ground so as to be painful (Simpsons & Family Guy).  I was posting out of emotion, not rationale.

Well then someone needs to get with the times then. I suspect a good chunk of the shows viewership are people like us, that stream and play games or something.

Last I heard details on it they don't count time-shifted viewing either.

They do count the time-shifters they are measuring that watch the show on the same "day":

Source: The Nielsen Company. Viewing estimates on this page include Live viewing and DVR playback on the Same Day, defined as 3am-3am. Ratings are the percentage of TV homes in the U.S. tuned into television.

http://en-us.nielsen.com/content/nielsen/en_us/insights/rankings/television.html

[Merusk]

Huh, that's new then.  Hopefully they'll update it soon enough to include next day as well.  I know if I'm recording something I don't watch it for a few days. Appears to hold true with other folks I talk to as well.

[Tannhauser]

Thought I'd necro this due to this internet promo Fox is doing for Fringe.  Looks like they might be slightly bullish on the show.  But it's Fox so who knows.
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2010/12/14/fox-has-fun-with-fringes-friday-move-in-promo-video/75518

[waffel]

Eh, most people watch that shit online/other places anyway. Wtf does it matter what time it airs.

[Tannhauser]

Because Friday night is the death sentence for many Fox shows.  And you won't be able to watch it 'other places' when it's cancelled.

[Merusk]

Eh, most people watch that shit online/other places anyway. Wtf does it matter what time it airs.

What? Really?  Because if people don't watch, ratings are low and it's axed, that's why.  It's all about the ad revenue which is tied to ratings, which was traditionally tied to timeslot.  It's never, ever been about how good/ bad any show is.

If a show has 500k people who watch it on "Friday at 9pm" (quotes for timeshift) it's going to be seen as not pulling in enough revenue and axed.  People watching elsewhere aren't counted and it used to be people who time shifted weren't counted either.  Now it's only people who time shift to the next day who don't count.  So until such time as ratings care about total viewership online, 'live' or tivo'd to next week, the time it airs matters.

[Mrbloodworth]

And that brings us back to. The ratings system is behind the times by a large margin, not just in who the issue the system to.

[cironian]

That's a lot of development for a single episode, especially considering there are 11 more scheduled for this season. As long as they don't cram too much filler in, this might turn out quite awesome even if it's cancelled after the season.