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Author Topic: Mass Effect - Bioware - PC  (Read 42701 times)
Lantyssa
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Reply #140 on: December 13, 2009, 11:38:41 AM

So, they learned?  ME2 will probably take things a step beyond Dragon Age and assume you do know more about the world now.

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Segoris
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Reply #141 on: December 13, 2009, 10:31:43 PM

I'm kind of thinking it is at the level that it will be for future Bioware games already (and has been since ME for that matter) and I don't really think it was better in DA:O then it was in ME. A good example of that is the gray warden lore. Think about the gray wardens and how popular they are among EVERYONE, including everyone that was in your starting area regardless of your origin story, yet when you first meet Duncan the questions to learn about what gray wardens are are right there. I understand questioning the ritual/initiation, but the rest of the stuff (such as who the gray wardens are, the blight, etc) just shows it hasn't progressed.

Additionally, and please correct me if I'm wrong here, the AI in the citadel for ME was about as pushy to teach the player what it was as any support character is to tell you about their class in DA:O. The information is there for both, but neither makes you choose it to progress. I thought the AI/info stations in ME just had it as an option but you didn't have to pick it to continue at all.

That said, I do agree with the disliking of those options always being there, and would have liked to not have those options at all (except what was needed for learning the specializations in DA:O from the support cast). What I would like to see though, is for games to associate dialogue choices with the difficulty level you pick. Say I pick beginner/easy difficulty, they keep it as it is now. If I choose advanced/hard/etc, they assume I know and just add the information into the codex. Some form of adaption like this would be great, even if it was an option in the menu.
caladein
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Reply #142 on: December 13, 2009, 11:18:52 PM

The psuedo-cop-out in Dragon Age is that no one except the Grey Wardens actually thinks/cares that a Blight is occurring.  For humans/elves, the last Blight is the same place I'd file the English Civil War.  For Dwarves of course, they're always fighting Darkspawn.

The best analogy would be how Geth lore is handled in Mass Effect as the timelines and previously-hidden-big-badness of the two groups are rather similar.  Unfortunately, I can't remember how I learned much about the Geth that wasn't from talking to Tali.

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Segoris
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Reply #143 on: December 14, 2009, 12:42:10 AM

The psuedo-cop-out in Dragon Age is that no one except the Grey Wardens actually thinks/cares that a Blight is occurring.  For humans/elves, the last Blight is the same place I'd file the English Civil War.  For Dwarves of course, they're always fighting Darkspawn.

The best analogy would be how Geth lore is handled in Mass Effect as the timelines and previously-hidden-big-badness of the two groups are rather similar.  Unfortunately, I can't remember how I learned much about the Geth that wasn't from talking to Tali.

I don't think that is a valid cop-out in anyway for the original complaint of providing basic information in the dialogue simply because that is a different line of questioning entirely. If the issue was no one knowing about a blight incoming except for the gray warden, and that was what we were able to ask about, that would change the question from what a gray warden is (which everyone in the game knows what that is) to why the gray wardens believe/know a blight is incoming. I'd even say that if the player was able to ask the gray warden why they believe a blight is coming, that would have been a good thing as that wouldn't have been what is basic knowledge across the lands like "what is a gray warden" is as we currently are limited to asking about.

I'd agree that the blight was similar to the geth in the sense of they are the threat to the hero, but then spectres would be the equal to gray wardens. Everyone knows who they both are except for the player in both cases, they're the exact same thing only with different names. And it's further proving that DA:O didn't progress at all to get away from what the original complaint was.
Velorath
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Reply #144 on: December 14, 2009, 06:07:13 AM

Personally, I like Mass Effect more than Dragon Age (although I do really like DA).  I think what it mostly comes down to is that fact that your character in ME has a voice and a name that people actually call you by, making him/her feel more like an actual character.  In DA, having your character just standing there with a blank look on your face during dialog while everyone refers to you as Grey Warden or any other number of impersonal ways ended up making me care about all the other characters more than the one I'd created.  If I could have replaced my character with someone else in the party, I probably would have.

With ME on the other hand, there's just a certain attachment I feel for my version of Shepard, to the point where it's a bit jarring to see a different Shepard in the ME2 trailers.
stray
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Reply #145 on: December 14, 2009, 09:36:20 AM

I guess there's plus and minuses to both approaches. I can see getting attached to Shepherd that way, however, I felt a bit limited by character backgrounds as it was in Dragon Age. Not sure I'd want more things that were defined for me.


Back to the "backstory" thing.. I noticed something in my recent Jade Empire playthrough.. They handled it well there too. You're a senior student at a martial arts school, and there's a series of dialogue with a lesser student, where you "test" him on his knowledge of the basics of the school. Like what styles are taught, things like that. It's all meant for the player's benefit, but presented in a way where it seems like your character already knows. This is what I mean when I prefer knowledge to be given to you a little more indirectly. It's a little nitpicky, but I appreciate the efforts at stuff like this.
Lantyssa
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Reply #146 on: December 14, 2009, 02:23:56 PM

If your game is going to have a tutorial, that's the best way if you are playing a character who should know this stuff.  The little known game Tachyon used it by having the main character run through a training sim to advise its creator of its flaws.

Personally, I like Mass Effect more than Dragon Age (although I do really like DA).  I think what it mostly comes down to is that fact that your character in ME has a voice and a name that people actually call you by, making him/her feel more like an actual character.
I'm finding this has made a big difference for me as well.  The further I get from the starting stories, the less I feel my character is an actual part of the plot.

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stray
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Reply #147 on: December 14, 2009, 08:27:12 PM

It was rather strange that my character became a bit detached from his origins.. and transitioned into the identity of some demigod Grey Warden dude, who virtually shed off his identity as a noble.  Not that I'm really complaining.. still a great game.. but leaving it all out was a big oversight in my character's development.

[edit] I don't think I'm asking too much for them to tailor make origin stories that tie in to the overall breadth of your Grey Warden duties.. Sure, it's more writing and work and voice acting, but considering that they wrote a shitload of stuff as it is, might as well have gone balls out with it.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 08:34:47 PM by stray »
Rasix
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Reply #148 on: December 14, 2009, 08:58:10 PM

Do we have a forum equivalent of jumping the shark?

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stray
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Reply #149 on: December 14, 2009, 09:49:34 PM

Wait, am I the one jumping the shark, or are we still talking about Bioware plots?  awesome, for real

If I'm derailing, I just wanted to make a quick response to what Lanyssa is saying about the Grey Warden "identity".
Hoax
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Reply #150 on: December 16, 2009, 04:37:05 PM

I just finished this, never played it before.  I don't usually do Bioware games but someone gifted it to me on Steam for xmas.

Details on my playthrough

In total it took me about 14 hours, which was a good length.  I made it to level 37.  If they can keep the good parts and improve the squad AI and commands while removing the fucking Mako tank nonsense the sequel should be awesome.

My personal pet peeve gripes would be the voice actor for Garrus was lame and he never seemed alien to me.  I really preferred Saren and the spectre from the beginning to him both made much more of an impression.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 07:26:33 PM by Hoax »

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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stray
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Reply #151 on: December 16, 2009, 08:17:52 PM

I'm out of the Citadel and finally warming up to the game. I'm not sure if I made a bad decision to first go to that snow planet. The matriarch boss fight is tough, even while using all kinds of cheap/pausing tactics (maybe that's not actually cheap, but whatever).

I do not use Kaidan. Talk about creepy. There's something wrong with that dude.
Bunk
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Reply #152 on: December 17, 2009, 09:57:35 AM

I just finished this, never played it before.  I don't usually do Bioware games but someone gifted it to me on Steam for xmas.

Details on my playthrough

In total it took me about 14 hours, which was a good length.  I made it to level 37.  If they can keep the good parts and improve the squad AI and commands while removing the fucking Mako tank nonsense the sequel should be awesome.


Wow, that was distinctly different from any of my 2.5 playthroughs. 14 hours in and I was barely off of the citidel.

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stray
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Reply #153 on: December 17, 2009, 10:56:15 AM

I'm having fun simply forging through, not "reloading" etc.. My character started out fairly nice, but he's increasingly getting pissed off.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Koyasha
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Reply #154 on: December 17, 2009, 01:26:42 PM

I don't know if you know, but the rogue VI mission is what unlocks your character specializations, so as a Soldier you would have been able to go Commando/Shock Trooper after that mission if you hadn't skipped it.

Nice path through the game overall, I like your decisions and such.  At Virmire I usually save whoever is at the AA tower, simply because the person at the bomb goes ahead and activates it without my express authorization. You do not arm and activate a nuclear weapon without the direct authorization of your CO!

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Hoax
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Reply #155 on: December 17, 2009, 02:45:24 PM

I found out about the sub-class upgrade last night.  I figure I'll wait and see what transfers over to MA2 and what doesn't so I can min/max the Sheppard I want to have.  I've also almost figured out how to activate the Bring Down the Sky DLC on Steam.  The second one with all the training/arena missions I'm even less clear on.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Ingmar
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Reply #156 on: December 17, 2009, 02:49:29 PM

The second one is pointless, I wouldn't bother with it.

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Velorath
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Reply #157 on: December 17, 2009, 02:49:44 PM

I found out about the sub-class upgrade last night.  I figure I'll wait and see what transfers over to MA2 and what doesn't so I can min/max the Sheppard I want to have.  I've also almost figured out how to activate the Bring Down the Sky DLC on Steam.  The second one with all the training/arena missions I'm even less clear on.

Instructions on getting Bring Down the Sky.  The only thing that changes with Steam is that you have to find your Mass Effect CD game by right-clicking on Mass Effect in the My Games tab of Steam.
Hoax
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Reply #158 on: December 17, 2009, 02:57:57 PM

Yeah there was just some confusion about where/which patch was ok to use.  The Bioware/MA forums suck balls but Steam forums had pointed me to that page I just wasn't confident I could use that patch.

Do you know anything about the second DLC or did that not come out for PC users?

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Mosesandstick
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Reply #159 on: December 17, 2009, 02:58:43 PM

Got to pay I think.
Velorath
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Reply #160 on: December 17, 2009, 03:36:50 PM

Yeah there was just some confusion about where/which patch was ok to use.  The Bioware/MA forums suck balls but Steam forums had pointed me to that page I just wasn't confident I could use that patch.

Do you know anything about the second DLC or did that not come out for PC users?

I used the patch in that link and it worked fine for me.

The second DLC I haven't picked up for the PC yet, but my understanding is that you can buy the direct download from the EA Store and sometime after release it was updated to work on Steam.  I've been reluctant to try though because typically when you buy something off the EA Store you have to install their download manager.
stray
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Reply #161 on: December 18, 2009, 12:12:03 AM

I don't really like a lot of the level designs here. Too "maze-y".  rolleyes Which is neither challenging or fun. I think I've fallen asleep with the controller in my hand like 5 or 6 times now. It's just an old cheap FPS tactic that relies on the fact that everything looks like shit compared to the real world. Take me to the action. What a waste of my time.
Velorath
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Reply #162 on: December 18, 2009, 04:21:33 AM

I don't really like a lot of the level designs here. Too "maze-y".  rolleyes Which is neither challenging or fun. I think I've fallen asleep with the controller in my hand like 5 or 6 times now. It's just an old cheap FPS tactic that relies on the fact that everything looks like shit compared to the real world. Take me to the action. What a waste of my time.

What?
stray
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Reply #163 on: December 18, 2009, 04:35:40 AM

Especially that last level (well, the one before the last Citadel level).

It's a maze just to find shit, even with the map. The graphics don't help. Kind of dark green, hard to see walls.

Anyhow, the game ended fine. But once again, I felt like a God at the end of a Bioware game. Kind of sad seeing Saren go down like a bitch.
Velorath
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Reply #164 on: December 18, 2009, 05:38:19 AM

I don't know, maze-y doesn't really come to mind when thinking about Mass Effect.  Hell, most of the side quests end up in enemy bases that all have pretty much the same layouts.  A couple of the main quests have spots where you might get turned around, but overall, they're fairly linear.
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Reply #165 on: December 18, 2009, 02:59:16 PM

Yeah 'maze' is about the last thing that comes to mind. If anything I'd say a lot of the game was a little *too* linear.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Hoax
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Reply #166 on: December 18, 2009, 05:46:39 PM

Especially that last level (well, the one before the last Citadel level).

It's a maze just to find shit, even with the map. The graphics don't help. Kind of dark green, hard to see walls.

Anyhow, the game ended fine. But once again, I felt like a God at the end of a Bioware game. Kind of sad seeing Saren go down like a bitch.

I couldn't actually set waypoints on my map, which caused me no* end of grief, between that and no useful minimap I did feel lost a little too often.  I really had fun though and I'm pretty stoked for Mass Effect 2 now.

*fuck you dyslexia
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 08:17:08 PM by Hoax »

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Velorath
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Reply #167 on: December 18, 2009, 08:09:20 PM

Do you know anything about the second DLC or did that not come out for PC users?

Ok, I can now confirm that the Pinnacle Station DLC does work on Steam.  And like I said, you need to buy it off EA's store and download it with their download manager, which is a hassle.  Everything seems to be working ok though.  Whether or not you'll find it worth $5 is up to you I guess.  It certainly doesn't play to ME's strengths, but I'm a bit of a completionist with this game.  Every time I've played through it, I've done every side quest.
Morat20
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Reply #168 on: December 18, 2009, 09:15:05 PM

Ok, I can now confirm that the Pinnacle Station DLC does work on Steam.  And like I said, you need to buy it off EA's store and download it with their download manager, which is a hassle.  Everything seems to be working ok though.  Whether or not you'll find it worth $5 is up to you I guess.  It certainly doesn't play to ME's strengths, but I'm a bit of a completionist with this game.  Every time I've played through it, I've done every side quest.
If you can win Pinnacle Station, it's worth the 5 bucks just for the retirement home you can win. Free grenade upgrades, and random level X stuff for 220k a pop? I was running around in Collosus X armor, Spectre X gear, and everyone using the BEST of the omnis and amps at level 40-something.

It's expensive because it's random, and they don't have decent human heavy armor, but if you sell stuff at the clinic you're rolling in so much cash it doesn't matter.

Of course, I got it during my soldier playthrough, and I've been told you might as well hammer your nuts to a wall than try some of the fucking time trials with a soldier. You have to kill EVERYONE in a group to spawn the next, and you have a very limited amount of time. Biotics can one-shot whole groups with throw, but targetting each one individually? (IE: with a gun?) is a fucking waste. Even on casual, winning at least two of the four time trials is an exercise in frustration -- unless you're really good with managing your biotic NPCS.

I'd imagine running it with an adept or even an engineer (I suspect overload would work well, and they cluster) would be a lot easier.

Hoax: I tend to grab all the NPCs, go rescue the blue chick, then run around the galaxy and just hit the quest planets when I get bored of Mako driving. Mostly because I enjoyed the game at higher levels (more powers -- for you and your enemies). Not getting the specialization class hampers you a bit, too. I did work out not to do any of the citidel quests but the "become a spectre" one if I was using the blue chick, because unlocking ally achievements is more or less by 'quests completed'. (The achivements give nice bonuses).
Hoax
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Reply #169 on: December 18, 2009, 11:42:52 PM

Oh do the enemies scale up too?  That is too bad if I missed out on some fun that way.  I got to L37 by the end though so I felt like if 50 was the cap I must have been doing ok.  My gear was on 6-7's with a few rare 8's

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Rasix
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Reply #170 on: December 19, 2009, 12:03:34 AM

Oh do the enemies scale up too?  That is too bad if I missed out on some fun that way.  I got to L37 by the end though so I felt like if 50 was the cap I must have been doing ok.  My gear was on 6-7's with a few rare 8's

Sounds like you zipped through. I can remember almost hitting 50 at the end of a single playthrough.  I could mistaken.  Been a while.

-Rasix
Velorath
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Reply #171 on: December 19, 2009, 12:10:18 AM

I hit 50 on my first playthrough having done just about everything there is to do.  With lv. 51-60 unlocked, the xp bonus from one of the unlocks, and both DLC packs, I think I can level up a character to the upper 50's in one playthrough.
stray
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Reply #172 on: December 19, 2009, 12:12:04 AM

I was around 37 and 20 hours.. sometimes i'd just leave the game on for awhile though. I guess I played through fast like Hoax. I did a few sidequests, but didn't care for them.
Lantyssa
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Reply #173 on: December 19, 2009, 12:14:48 AM

I had to unlock 50 with the first play through, and 60 with the second on Hard.  Did they change that?

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Mosesandstick
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Reply #174 on: December 19, 2009, 04:33:26 AM

I took a bit under 30 hours, and I think I hit most of those god-damn awful side planets up. Then again new computer = no loading times  awesome, for real
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