WAR to be released...

[kildorn]

If you have to preorder to get into the open beta, IT'S NOT A FUCKING OPEN BETA NOW IS IT?

Open wallet Beta!

[photek]

Come on, lift the god damn NDA, I have way too much to say. NDA up 5 weeks before launch is ridiculous.

[slog]

Come on, lift the god damn NDA, I have way too much to say. NDA up 5 weeks before launch is ridiculous.

I take it as a sign that they are hiding something. 

[photek]

Come on, lift the god damn NDA, I have way too much to say. NDA up 5 weeks before launch is ridiculous.

I take it as a sign that they are hiding something. 

 

[slog]

Come on, lift the god damn NDA, I have way too much to say. NDA up 5 weeks before launch is ridiculous.

I take it as a sign that they are hiding something. 

 

I assume speculating as to why the NDA isn't lifted doesn't violate the Site's NDA rules.  If I'm wrong, let me know.

[amiable]

Mark adresses NDA in this thread:

http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/108125830/p1/?189

I cannot comment  .

[photek]

It is rather strict with the NDA yeah.. I think Wrath of the Lich King is doing great and creating far more hype currently than WAR is with a closed NDA 5 weeks prior to launch.

[amiable]

A few money quotes from Mark (from the thread above):

1. "I hope that the NDA lift isn't 2 weeks off, it might be but I hope not. When we lift the NDA, I'll explain why I held it up and I think you'll understand. As to the confidence factor, yeap, I would understand why people would be concerned based on what I've said, can't blame you (or them) for that at all. That's why we are doing something else to help build confidence that I hope to announce this week as well. 

Mark"

2.  " Spookysheep posted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Straight from the horses mouth concerning NDA's, so this should give you some idea of where the game is now:

http://vnboards.ign.com/Message.aspx?topic=107012047&brd=22997&start=107020114




"However, what I do agree with is that gamers don't like being kept in the dark by an NDA and that if the NDA is kept in place until just before a game is launched that bad things can happen. As I've said before, my system for judging a company's confidence in its product is based on how early the NDA is lifted. I give the game one point for every week before launch that the NDA is lifted. A score of 1 or less means big trouble, 2-4 is okay but not great, 4-8 is good to great and anything higher than that is nirvana. I also agree that few MMORPGs have turned out to be anything like advertised pre-launch which is why the timing of the NDA lift is so important. Again, keep in mind that this only applies to games that uses non-employee or contracted beta testers. Many games don't do this but for MMOs I think it is a very good and necessary thing to ensure that the developer sees a wide range of players, play styles, etc. during the development process.

Mark"



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yeap, said it, meant it, stand by it, etc.

Mark "

[sam, an eggplant]

Don't see why speculating would break any rules. Of course you can't speculate if you're in the beta.

And Jacobs "standing by that" just means that the NDA will be dropped when the pre-order beta begins, 4 weeks before retail release.

[cevik]

Don't see why speculating would break any rules. Of course you can't speculate if you're in the beta.

And Jacobs "standing by that" just means that the NDA will be dropped when the pre-order beta begins, 4 weeks before retail release.

Is he also standing by his own scoring system rating the game as "okay but not great"?

[slog]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Straight from the horses mouth concerning NDA's, so this should give you some idea of where the game is now:

http://vnboards.ign.com/Message.aspx?topic=107012047&brd=22997&start=107020114




"However, what I do agree with is that gamers don't like being kept in the dark by an NDA and that if the NDA is kept in place until just before a game is launched that bad things can happen. As I've said before, my system for judging a company's confidence in its product is based on how early the NDA is lifted. I give the game one point for every week before launch that the NDA is lifted. A score of 1 or less means big trouble, 2-4 is okay but not great, 4-8 is good to great and anything higher than that is nirvana. I also agree that few MMORPGs have turned out to be anything like advertised pre-launch which is why the timing of the NDA lift is so important. Again, keep in mind that this only applies to games that uses non-employee or contracted beta testers. Many games don't do this but for MMOs I think it is a very good and necessary thing to ensure that the developer sees a wide range of players, play styles, etc. during the development process.

Mark"




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yeap, said it, meant it, stand by it, etc.

Mark "

FORGET IT. CEVIK COVERED IT

[sam, an eggplant]

Is he also standing by his own scoring system rating the game as "okay but not great"?

Heh, read it carefully, 4 weeks can be "okay but not great" or "good to great". I'm sure he's picked the latter.

Anyway, everybody will know the truth next week, right?

[Triforcer]

Is he also standing by his own scoring system rating the game as "okay but not great"?

Heh, read it carefully, 4 weeks can be "okay but not great" or "good to great". I'm sure he's picked the latter.

Anyway, everybody will know the truth next week, right?

Open Beta is the 15th of August, Release is the 18th.  So technically, the game is good to great.  God help us all if the open beta had started August 19th!!!!

[cevik]

Is he also standing by his own scoring system rating the game as "okay but not great"?

Heh, read it carefully, 4 weeks can be "okay but not great" or "good to great". I'm sure he's picked the latter.

Anyway, everybody will know the truth next week, right?

Open Beta is the 15th of August, Release is the 18th.  So technically, the game is good to great.  God help us all if the open beta had started August 19th!!!!

That's assuming that the "Open" beta accounts don't have to sign an NDA.  After all, it's only an open beta if you give them your pre-order code. :)

[Triforcer]

They'd be fools to think that the OB crowd would adhere to an NDA.  Release is too close and irritation is too high.  Their pets on the main warhammer boards (WHA, Only-war, etc) wouldn't be able to keep it tamped down this time. 

[cevik]

They'd be fools to think that the OB crowd would adhere to an NDA. 

I don't even understand why we keep calling it Open Beta.  It's in no way an Open Beta.  It's a closed beta with invites going out to people who have pre-order codes.  The only difference between that and, lets say, Guild Beta is how the codes have been distributed.

[Draegan]

Well anyone who puts down cash for a pre order can get in.  So you actually control getting in to beta.  Which is better than before I suppose.

You guys are frothing to much on this whole open beta/nda thing.

[cevik]

You guys are frothing to much on this whole open beta/nda thing.

I think it's more laughing than frothing, for the record.

[slog]

Well anyone who puts down cash for a pre order can get in.  So you actually control getting in to beta.  Which is better than before I suppose.

You guys are frothing to much on this whole open beta/nda thing.

Call it experience.  Limited level beta with still no NDA = Reasons to be suspicious

[Falwell]

Well anyone who puts down cash for a pre order can get in.  So you actually control getting in to beta.  Which is better than before I suppose.

You guys are frothing to much on this whole open beta/nda thing.

Call it experience.  Limited level beta with still no NDA = Reasons to be suspicious

Well that and cutting the bulk of their capital cities just a few weeks ago. Yeah, danger Will Robinson.

[HaemishM]

You guys are frothing to much on this whole open beta/nda thing.

I think it's more laughing than frothing, for the record.

A little froth on my part, mainly because I just hate the marketing department calling something one thing when it's really another.

Of course, I also think we should change the name of a real open beta (as in anyone can get in type of beta) to pre-release demo. An open beta that you have to pay to get into should be called a closed delta.

The more barriers between myself and trying this game out without having to pay a dime for it, the less chance I'll even bother to get the money together to pay for it. MMOG's have disappointed me more than enough in the last 10 years that I think I'm justified in saying I will not pay $40-50 for a client without having a chance to try it out first. If you can't manage to provide that, fuck off.

[Triforcer]

I get the "why NDA?" thing, but I don't and have never understood the limited level fury.  They don't want poopsockers to max out before the game goes live, because that would be bad publicity (OMG game is short!).  What's suspicious about that?  Do we really think that ranks 21-40 consist of a gray flat plain with an_alpha_placeholder_00s' floating five feet off the ground?

EDIT:  Haemish: why is there a god-given right to play a game before its released?  We don't get to do that with single-player games 99% of the time, why is it so different here (especially since the first month sub is usually free, and if you hate the game you are out 50 bucks just like you are out fifty bucks with a SP game?)

[sam, an eggplant]

Not sure why it's level limited either. Maybe because you don't get to keep those characters in final, and they don't want players to burn out early?

I'd prefer a real open stress-test, but as there obviously won't be any NDA in the preorder beta the buzz will tell whether it's worth picking up.

[cevik]

What's suspicious about that?  Do we really think that ranks 21-40 consist of a gray flat plain with an_alpha_placeholder_00s' floating five feet off the ground?

That's the complaint about AoC, they "polished" the 1 through 20 game extremely well, and then just had a mmog tied on from level 20+.  So that when people experienced the limited open beta they were like "zomg, next gen mmog here, really well polished" because you were roped off from the last 3/4 of the game that ended up being just a regular old mmog.

I don't think we have enough experience with level capped betas yet to tell if they mean good or bad things, but all the tea leaves are telling me to wait and buy this game in a few months.  Of course, then WotLK will be out so who knows.

[Soln]

I am interested in seeing what they launch with for RvR mgmt.  The Herald and realm stats and maps were the first of their kind I believe.

[cevik]

I'd prefer a real open stress-test, but as there obviously won't be any NDA in the preorder beta the buzz will tell whether it's worth picking up.

Why obviously?

[slog]

I get the "why NDA?" thing, but I don't and have never understood the limited level fury.  They don't want poopsockers to max out before the game goes live, because that would be bad publicity (OMG game is short!).  What's suspicious about that?  Do we really think that ranks 21-40 consist of a gray flat plain with an_alpha_placeholder_00s' floating five feet off the ground?

The limited level fury is driven by the sneaking suspicion that too little time was spend balancing and coding the engame game, if they even coded it at all.  Entire swaths of content could be missing like in Age of Conan.

[IainC]

I try and stay out of this thread because I don't talk for Mythic and I don't want people to think that I do. Also I try not to be 'at work' here as otherwise I'd have to take a very different tack on this site. So for now pretend I don't have a red name or a WAR tag as a custom title. This is stuff you can get from any random fansite or by skimming the news pages.

People are getting their panties in a twist over semantics. Open Beta has been consistently defined by Mythic as 'a beta period with no NDA'. They've always been pretty clear that the beta will remain an invite only affair right up to the end. If you insist on a different definition then that's fine, just accept that Mythic aren't using that one. So a beta can be 'open' and still be invite only or require a pre-order key for entry.

The second thing. The open beta is level limited for some pretty obvious reasons that have nothing to do with missing content or unfinished zones. You can see from things like the newsletter, the Guild Highlights and the News From The Front spots that high level content has been tested in beta and is undeniably present. Sometimes there is no conspiracy.

/relurk

[HaemishM]

EDIT:  Haemish: why is there a god-given right to play a game before its released?  We don't get to do that with single-player games 99% of the time, why is it so different here (especially since the first month sub is usually free, and if you hate the game you are out 50 bucks just like you are out fifty bucks with a SP game?)

Because I'm tired of getting the same refried shit over and over again? Because MMOG's as a general rule are so unorginal, so samey-samey and so bugfuck incomplete, unpolished and shitty that I'm not willing to pay $50 for the privilege of finding out your MMOG sucks and plays just like EQ/WoW/Everyotherfuckingdikusince1998?

If you're game is good, you'll get my $50 and likely 2-3 months worth of subscription fees. If it were a single-player game, I could, you know, trade it in for some store credit if I don't like it. If it's an MMOG, I'm out $50 and the continuing disappointment in the industry. Fuck that. I don't have the money or the time to waste anymore. You want me and my money? Give me a free trial and make the game good enough I don't get bored in the first 30-minutes. Amateur hour is over, bitches.

[Soln]

what are the system reqs?

[cevik]

The second thing. The open beta is level limited for some pretty obvious reasons that have nothing to do with missing content or unfinished zones. You can see from things like the newsletter, the Guild Highlights and the News From The Front spots that high level content has been tested in beta and is undeniably present. Sometimes there is no conspiracy.

You are saying "we won't let anyone who did the testing tell you anything right now, but if you read the 'official' word you know that everything is fine and worth spending money on."

I've yet to encounter a company who's "official" policy was that their stuff was crap and I should avoid buying it at all costs.  I have however encountered companies who's "official" policy was that everything is fine and I should go ahead and drop $75 on their collector's edition because it's all been tested and no I shouldn't worry at all that they won't let anyone tell me about their stuff because it's all been tested just look at the official policy.

See the problem?

[Triforcer]

SP games can be exchanged for store credit, but MMOs can't?  I thought SP games had required online code entry nowadays too (if that's the MMO barrier to return). 

[cevik]

SP games can be exchanged for store credit, but MMOs can't?  I thought SP games had required online code entry nowadays too (if that's the MMO barrier to return). 

I've never encountered a store that would let me return a MMOG once the box has left the store.  Doesn't even have to be opened, once the money leaves your hand and is in Best Buy's, there are no refunds.  At least that's been my anecdotal experience.

[Montague]

I try and stay out of this thread because I don't talk for Mythic and I don't want people to think that I do. Also I try not to be 'at work' here as otherwise I'd have to take a very different tack on this site. So for now pretend I don't have a red name or a WAR tag as a custom title. This is stuff you can get from any random fansite or by skimming the news pages.

People are getting their panties in a twist over semantics. Open Beta has been consistently defined by Mythic as 'a beta period with no NDA'. They've always been pretty clear that the beta will remain an invite only affair right up to the end. If you insist on a different definition then that's fine, just accept that Mythic aren't using that one. So a beta can be 'open' and still be invite only or require a pre-order key for entry.

The second thing. The open beta is level limited for some pretty obvious reasons that have nothing to do with missing content or unfinished zones. You can see from things like the newsletter, the Guild Highlights and the News From The Front spots that high level content has been tested in beta and is undeniably present. Sometimes there is no conspiracy.

/relurk

Very smart. Only allow people who have a vested interest in the game (preorders) beta-test. Doesn't completely tamp down the negative nancies but does skew word of mouth in Mythics favor.

That is in no fashion an open beta though.

[IainC]

Very smart. Only allow people who have a vested interest in the game (preorders) beta-test. Doesn't completely tamp down the negative nancies but does skew word of mouth in Mythics favor.

That is in no fashion an open beta though.

Who said only pre-orders will be in the open beta?