Dragon Age

[tmp]

I want to see what this game looks like when it gets a fanbase 'oscuro' style overhaul. They already have stamina potion mods. Probably, a significant increase of potion drinking time and downtime is in order.

There's some more extensive gameplay tweaks already: nightmare plus

[gryeyes]

A single AW with good gear would in all likelihood destroy an entire party of "lessers". Maybe with a FEW templars it would be close. All incoming melee damage is reduced by 95%+ (not sure how evasion and defense stack) that can be reapplied with a very short cooldown if dispelled. And he can stand essentially immune in his own AoE's. And is wearing mostly cloth so his "fatigue" with main shield down still allows for a good 10 spells to be cast. A better arguement would be if the mage received any damage in the fight not its outcome.

[Sky]

I am also kinda bummed out about the whole no stamina potion thing. Since I was focused on str for gear and dmg on my 2h warrior, and con for hps, my (forget stat, willpower?) has taken a serious backseat, I can almost pull off one round of my abilities and I pretty much done for the fight except a couple pommel strikes. Just got my Champion aura, now I start with about 40% stamina

The kicker is that in the web game, they had stamina potions, so I've been looking for a recipe all this time.

potion chugging at every round when a fireball hit your party every 15 seconds when fighting a boss.

[Samprimary]

Because it wouldn't last forever? Probably not even work? Lets see, even without armor, I have 20 something mental resistance. I think? I don't remember (sorry). If I were wearing, say, Juggernaught, there's more mental resists there.

What you are saying still does not make sense. I guess I will make another attempt to explain it. The way you are saying a templar can fight a mage is predicated on a situation where a mage does not fight you correctly. There is no reason for AW to begin initiating sustainables until they are completely out of mana. If you are inside a crushing prison, you are screwed. They can sit back, take their time, and place you at the epicenter of several concurrently-running disables with ridiculously hard to resist checks. Yes, crushing prison does not last forever; however, by the time it ends, you're in the middle of two sustained checks (Storm plus Earthquake) and may be petrified at leisure, you have had your resistances cut down to nearly nothing, and even if you close ranks to the mage, you only hit on a crit and everything else is a miss. The amount of dickage that a mage can unleash in the span of a single stun is ridiculous.

I mean, I hate to dash templar love, but templars aren't even the best candidates for mage-killing. a stealth rogue is infinitely preferable.

What it comes down to is that the Telekinetics tree + other petrifications (which don't work off of mental resistance anyway) are too powerful.

But realistically, this all goes back to why I'm talking about this in the first place: my disagreement for your idea that being an arcane warrior makes the mage easier to kill. Not really! You have it backwards. Arcane Warrior pretty much negates the biggest ostensible tempering factor of mages: their frailty. it becomes a bit easier to kill mages when they haven't picked up Arcane Warrior. That way, they're in a wet paper bag with meh bonuses, instead of wearing stuff like the Juggernaut set and amping up their own resistances.

[Rasix]

Maybe you're doing it wrong.   I had a primarily defensive party and had to drink very few pots. My healing and cooldowns were sufficient.  A little more micromanagement of Wynne, and I probably could have gone without. However, Shale is a pretty strong tank early on (no so much once everyone starts breaking out the stuns and knockdowns) and handled that fight well.


edit:

Heh, the only thing you guys are really arguing is that a buffless paralyzed character will likely die.  This works for anyone.

[Strazos]

Killed Flemeth first shot. Defenseive runes from Wynne helped; had Al and Shale sit in the rune in tank mode, with Wynne off to the side to avoid frontal AE, and my rogue behind backstabbing almost nonstop. Don't feel like I used too many potions.

Only unfortunate part was that I needed to keep the camera pulled all the way back, to keep track of everyone.

[Ingmar]

If they can make offensive warrior specs slightly cheaper on the stamina cost I'd be fucking happier.

Honestly I just don't understand why the game didn't release with stamina potions. Mages are generally supposed to have problems with mana capacity, but it's irrelevant due to the fact that they have the ability to huff lyrium as much as they want.

Check the fine print on deep mushrooms.

[gryeyes]

And only one character can paralyze.  But really a AW could simply walk over and whack with a sword and still win easily. Costs no mana to keep reapplying your buffs/shields and will still output more damage. Every time you get dispelled you can apply one of a handful of spells that will neutralize the templar long enough to sustain no damage until buffs are back up.

One class has a monopoly on CC while simultaneously being highly resisted to all forms of damage... no contest. Can a rogue do enough damage to insta kill a mage with shields down? I guess thats a possibility where a mage might lose.

People should mention platform when comparing difficulty. I guess the difficulty "settings" are very different between console/PC. Deep mushrooms are definitely for stamina pots. The melee classes having the rare resource is another factor in why mages are so much better. Unlimited stamina would be a significant change.

[Samprimary]

Check the fine print on deep mushrooms.

They ain't pots. You can snort raw lyrium too, but it isn't very effective.

[stray]

But realistically, this all goes back to why I'm talking about this in the first place: my disagreement for your idea that being an arcane warrior makes the mage easier to kill. Not really! You have it backwards. Arcane Warrior pretty much negates the biggest ostensible tempering factor of mages: their frailty. it becomes a bit easier to kill mages when they haven't picked up Arcane Warrior. That way, they're in a wet paper bag with meh bonuses, instead of wearing stuff like the Juggernaut set and amping up their own resistances.

I'm not assuming an Arcane Warrior will begin fighting in any particular fashion. It doesn't matter if he started off as a caster, no toggles, no combat magic, no armor, nothing.. just a mage.. This is what you're saying, right? So you're a mage, and you cast Force Field/Crushing Prison/Stun, it's going to lock down the Templar, right? I'm assuming this is what you want to do, because you keep mentioning these 3 spells. Yet, out of all the control spells a mage has, you're picking the ones that Templars do a better job of resisting than others.

Lets assume that perhaps they really stuck and you did some damage - lets say you took the Templar down to even 10% health. Lets say you unleashed holy hell on the Temp while he was imprisoned.

So the Temp is almost dead, he just went through an onslaught of shit, and now the Templar is running towards you - you have a little mana left. Is this when you gear up and toss on combat magic (lets just assume you can actually gear up quickly... I'll be kind about that mechanic ). Exactly what good would that do? You toss on Combat magic and have all that armor, ready to finish the templar off on his own terms -- but then he dispels Combat Magic. All of the sudden you'd be a mage again --- Except worse. You'd be a mage wearing a fuckton of armor not meant for you, you couldn't cast shit, and more than likely, the first hit from that Templar cuts into the little health you thought you never needed (being a mage and all) - and to top it off, he's a dual wielder, and is cutting in what mana you have left too. You will run and potion up. In this case, the Templar is a caster too. Not only that, his aoe attack sucks out your mana too. So that's another thing that'll make you potion up again.

Meh. I don't see it playing out any other way than the Templar forcing a melee fight. In which case, the Arcane Warrior loses. Everything that makes an Arcane Warrior a meleer is gone when fighting a Templar. He has to fight off as a mage --- and if you made a decent Arcane Warrior, he's probably a shitty mage. That's why I say it'd be the easiest of mages to kill. The hardest would be a blood mage. A blood mage arcane warrior no less. That's the only way you can fight in melee, and not be penalized/dependent on mana.

Fuck.. I'm taking too much. I'll let you finish :)

[stray]

Heh, I always feel sorry for Ser Jory on my playthroughs.. "There is no glory in this." Poor bastard.

[apocrypha]

The mages tower Fade bit is making me not want to play any more 

[stray]

Rofl.. Try playing it multiple times then come talk to me.  

[Tannhauser]

The mages tower Fade bit is making me not want to play any more 

Easily the worst part of the game.  Just tough it out son!

As for stamina, my DW warrior has increased his Willpower a good amount; this has helped me use more of my sweet dual skills.  I'm all for stam pots though.

[rk47]

Yeah on my 2nd playthrough as Shield Warrior I made a point to invest at least a point on willpower every level up.

[stray]

I liked the mage tower..

First off.. and not to knock Bioware, but their combat systems are always.. kind of... shitty.

There I said it.  

It's not necessarily a bad thing. Not to get all deep and shit, but there's a certain therapeutic charm to autoattacking your way through dungeons.. Give or take a few moments where you pause and think up some tactics. I don't really fault them for it.

The mage tower at least requires you to consider tactics the majority of the time, whatwith the shapeshifting and all. It's just a tad bit too long. Plus, the entire Fade experience (graphics, etc) can get old.

[Strazos]

BLASPHEMER!!

[Reg]

Yea, the slightly blurred effect they had going in the Fade bothered my eyes. I could definitely do without it.

[Strazos]

Lame, I just noticed I too had not registered to get the Edge, even though I had the profiles and crap set up well before the 1st.

Anyone able to point me to a way of getting it still? I'm not sure, but I don't think the game ever asked me to register.

[Reg]

All the promo items used to be available through a link in the bioware official forums but they were taken down.  There are still torrents out there for it though. Just google "dragon age promotional items" and you should find it.

I had no idea I wasn't registered either. It's the stupidest thing I ever heard after all the hoops I had to jump through to get the game installed and the shale stuff downloaded.

[Goreschach]

Wait, so how do you register? I've already used my steam keys and set up their website account and shit.

[BitWarrior]

So without looking at the exact spoilers, the game's ending is something akin to this?:

THE END

for now...?
(Buy our upcoming DLC!)

Yes. Basically.

The only reason I could imagine someone would agree to that statement is if their hero sacrificed themselves in the end, of to which I have not seen that ending in particular.

[schild]

Your reading comprehension is terrible. It's not "The End" It's "The End, for now, buy our upcoming DLC."

Which is very much what it is. Sure, there's ALMOST closure, as in there's a slideshow that tells you what happened. But at best, I'd consider that a rushed ending. But really, it's a bad one. Given how much dialogue and story-telling the game has, the ending feels like a tacked on mess. I didn't expect to open the doors and meet.... a slideshow. I expected to open the doors and get a rockass cinematic. The ending had less theater than the goddamn CGI trailer.

[Reg]

Did you somehow miss playing KOTOR2 and the original campaign of NWN 2? Now THOSE had bad slideshow endings. Your complaints about Dragon Age are way overdone.

[stray]

I never remember KotoR 2 being that bad either. Everyone pissed and moaned about it. I must've picked the slightly half-assed ending.

NWN2 ended the second I started it. 

[Rasix]

edit: nm.  I agree with the sentiment; I just hope you aren't referencing those games for the reason I think you are. 

I don't see that much rage worthy about the ending.  Boss fight -> Prologue chat (maybe) -> Game wraps up.  What the hell more did it need?  30 minutes of Lord of Rings style jibber jabber?  I mean hell it wasn't Persona 3 but it wasn't exactly cut to black.  Good guys won; I'm not sure how much further you can take it. 

[tmp]

I didn't expect to open the doors and meet.... a slideshow. I expected to open the doors and get a rockass cinematic. The ending had less theater than the goddamn CGI trailer.

I confess i didn't quite know what to expect but i did love the opening the door = end of your journey thing they did there. It was a strong closure and if it was some another cgi thing instead it'd be probably too much (for me personally) in the sense it'd be yet another ramp up and fresh on the heels of the killblow/final choice sequence.

Rollercoasters are nice sure, but i appreciate they had the restraint to bring this one gradually to the full stop the way they did.

THe slideshow reminded me of the old Fallouts so it didn't feel bad, either.

[schild]

Did you somehow miss playing KOTOR2 and the original campaign of NWN 2? Now THOSE had bad slideshow endings. Your complaints about Dragon Age are way overdone.

The only Star Wars game I've ever played is SW:G. As such, comparing it to them doesn't make much sense.

[BitWarrior]

Your reading comprehension is terrible. It's not "The End" It's "The End, for now, buy our upcoming DLC."

Holy shit, a company suggesting there might be more in the future? Say it ain't so! This is a travesty! Clearly we need more nerdrage on the subject.

[schild]

Your reading comprehension is terrible. It's not "The End" It's "The End, for now, buy our upcoming DLC."

Holy shit, a company suggesting there might be more in the future? Say it ain't so! This is a travesty! Clearly we need more nerdrage on the subject.

Just because you missed the point doesn't mean you have to try and validate writing 5 paragraphs.

[BitWarrior]

Doesn't make the ending very enjoyable though.

Yeah, you're right. You were saying you loved the ending all along! 

[schild]

OK.

[Raguel]

Just started my second playthrough. I made an elf instead of warrior. I plan on making a ranger, in hopes that she'll be something like my ShadowBane rogue/amazon.As far as I can tell though, there's no quest associated with it, you have to buy the manual. Anyone know for sure?

[Ingmar]

FWIW this is the sort of ending people have been complaining that Bioware *didn't* have on their last few games; in particular the slideshow thing with detailed consequences for the different areas, a la the original Fallout, is something people have been specifically asking for quite a lot. And there were a lot of pretty bitter complaints at how half-assed the version of it that Fallout 3 had was,too.

I liked the ending quite a lot, myself, and I didn't particularly think it was doing much to set up DLC. I'd be pretty surprised if the Morrigan thing shows up in DLC personally. I expect it is a setup for a sequel or a novel or both, more likely.

[stray]

I made an elf instead of warrior.

Elves can be warriors too fyi. 


I bought the manual as well. I'm pretty it's the only way -- Pretty sure that Rangers were sort of an afterthought to the game actually (but it's not bad by any means.. There just isn't content associated with it).