Star Trek Online: Here We Go Again!

[Nebu]

Sounds like the shine is going to wear off fairly fast. Though for cryptic having something that doesn't outright suck from minute 1 is quite an achievement.

Here's what I don't get.  Cryptic makes CoH/CoV.  A game that really came close to being a title I (and many) would play and enjoy for some time.  How is it that they can get that close on a project and then take a bunch of money and blow it on something going in COMPLETELY THE OPPOSITE (maybe wrong, we'll see) DIRECTION?

[Ghambit]

Sounds like the shine is going to wear off fairly fast. Though for cryptic having something that doesn't outright suck from minute 1 is quite an achievement.

Here's what I don't get.  Cryptic makes CoH/CoV.  A game that really came close to being a title I (and many) would play and enjoy for some time.  How is it that they can get that close on a project and then take a bunch of money and blow it on something going in COMPLETELY THE OPPOSITE (maybe wrong, we'll see) DIRECTION?

It's called Greed.  They sold CoH to NCSoft and then got flooded with venture capital during the post-wow boom.  The only reason they even scored the rights to STO is because they were one of the few studios with enough cash to stay afloat once Perp. went belly-up.  Really, it's most likely just business-thinking and nothing more.  There's no romance to it whatsoever.

As for the shine wearing off.  It'd be fine if they had any inkling whatsoever on how to design missions.  It's not like Trek is a tough genre to make shit up for, christ.  But hey, that's not a part of their business model.  Hell, you could count ChampO's mission creation staff on one middle finger and STOs is a bot.

[Triforcer]

I'm having fun in my limited OB time so far.  But I wish this license hadn't been given to a shovelware developer who had to code from scratch in 18 months.  The Star Trek universe could have so much more depth. 

[Shatter]

Got to toy around last night and just not impressed.  Was looking forward to some awesome music during the installer to get me pumped and kick some ass...no music at all.  Graphics arent anything to write home about, certainly nothing that made me go WOAH.  In fact its a re-skinned CO, almost felt like a mod for CO.  The tutorial made no sense whatsoever and in no way made me feel like I was part of something.  That and the story..Borg that are different somehow, like they arent part of the hive...wtf?  Overall..all of it just seems half assed

[Hawkbit]

Remember folks, the game is still in beta.  There's bound to be some rough spots.  Also, we can hang our hats on a miracle patch.   

[01101010]

I'll keep my ear to fileplanet for a miracle key in order to take part in the ritual slaughter of another MMO - downloaded the client so far since flieplanet assures me "more key s are on the way!"

For once, I have next to no desire to play this at all and really just want to load it up to laugh at it. Does that make me a bad person?

[Soukyan]

So it's in Open Beta now... but they ran out of keys. Bummer.

[Ratman_tf]

First impressions.

Client crashed out before getting to create a character. Had to use the install repair utility. Created an Andorian dude, started to think along RP lines, then realized that this isn't an RPG, and went for DPS choices. Tutorial level is funny. There's this huge Borg attack, and you're in some lounge checking it out on the jumbotron. (bay windows) Made it to the engineering section, killed the Borg there (who were jumping around like Mario for some reason) and then the client crashed again.
The options screens during character creation are unfinished. This thing is not really ready for open Beta, but when did that ever stop a developer before?

Eh. Standard MMOG fare. I'll probably keep tinkering with it until open Beta finishes. No desire to spend money on it at this point.

Oh yeah, the music is ass. WoW spoiled me there.

[Shatter]

First impressions.

Client crashed out before getting to create a character. Had to use the install repair utility. Created an Andorian dude, started to think along RP lines, then realized that this isn't an RPG, and went for DPS choices. Tutorial level is funny. There's this huge Borg attack, and you're in some lounge checking it out on the jumbotron. (bay windows) Made it to the engineering section, killed the Borg there (who were jumping around like Mario for some reason) and then the client crashed again.
The options screens during character creation are unfinished. This thing is not really ready for open Beta, but when did that ever stop a developer before?

Eh. Standard MMOG fare. I'll probably keep tinkering with it until open Beta finishes. No desire to spend money on it at this point.

Oh yeah, the music is ass. WoW spoiled me there.

lol yeah I was watching the borg and was like wtf are they doing. 

[Ratman_tf]

I reloaded and took another look. At first, I thought they were getting bumped up on the Z axis by terrain, but they're actually doing the jump animation. I can only assume that these new Borg are assimilated Kangaroonites.

[Riggswolfe]

I don't know what the 150 meg patch they did yesterday was but the difference between the game early in the day and later that night was, well, night and day. No more disconnects and so far the random bug of materializing in space as my character instead of my ship hasn't happened again.

The game definitely needs another month or two of work. That said, it does have some fun in it despite the odds. The ground stuff is kind of bland but the space stuff is actually beautiful to look at and fun to play. Actually, the ground has its moments, especially now that I've picked up some kind of phaser machine gun that my guy holds like Rambo with an M-60! The missions...well, those need work.

If I can duo stuff with my wife for 2-3 weeks or so it'll be worth a box purchase for me. Then I can cancel before I have to give them a sub and just watch to see what, if anything, they do to make the game better. I'm going to give them a bit of credit because I still remember how they handled COH.

[Modern Angel]

It's growing on me. Seriously, I was not expecting this. It's not MMO Jesus by any means but it's actually a fun little time waster. Even the ground combat is pretty fun with stuff like flanking attacks, dodges, etc. It feels a little better than most MMO combat even if it's not actually very different. Space combat is pretty nice; whoever said it feels like a leaner version of Starfleet Command was spot on.'

God help me, I like it.

[Mrbloodworth]

I still think it is sad that a F2P (allods) game has more trek features than a trek game.

[Modern Angel]

I actually said that last night talking to a Trekkie friend. Almost verbatim. I mean STO is way better than I expected but it doesn't match the intrigue I felt when I read about the randomized allods or whatever they're called.

[UnSub]

Not sure if it's rebalanced, but PvP is a much faster way to advance than PvE. You level up quicker doing PvP.

Here's what I don't get.  Cryptic makes CoH/CoV.  A game that really came close to being a title I (and many) would play and enjoy for some time.  How is it that they can get that close on a project and then take a bunch of money and blow it on something going in COMPLETELY THE OPPOSITE (maybe wrong, we'll see) DIRECTION?

CoH/V was four or five years in development and a lot of what launched kind of ended up as a happy accident. But a lot of players still said that something needed fixing, so Cryptic took some of that advice to heart.

Plus the Cryptic Engine. That underpins their titles, which in turn underpins how their games are developed. Underpins the entire way of thinking. Saves time in development, but it only does so much and limits thinking in other ways.

[Mrbloodworth]

They are essentially doing what turbine did years ago. One single engine for all titles. Saves on development time, especially on the rendering support end of things.

However, were cryptic seems to have jumped the shark in this case, is understanding that it is not a good idea to use the same game layer, and change nothing title to title. In fact, I think every single problem both CO and STO have, is because they have attempted to make a game layers that is simply to generic and does not allow for a custom game layer. They simply CAN'T do anything but a DIKU with it.

Exhibit A: Is the fact that it gets confused as to what model to use in space or on terrain, leading me to think, the players and the ships use the exact same code/object class with exception of the model called. Quite sure why at one point, they also wanted to only have a 2d plane of movement only for ships, allowing them to simply use a hidden terrain poly, and the same movement systems as player classes.

[VainEldritch]

After about 4 hours play yesterday, I found it stable (for me anyway - not one crash, just a couple of "full map" boots) and rather fun.

The first hour I spent fiddling with the character creator which, by Jove, is addictive. I'm a Star Trek geeknaught, but oddly with the character creator a made one fellow who looks like Gary Oldman in full "Old Dracula" makeup, then another who looked almost exactly like one of the albino twins in Matrix Reloaded. Choosing the white-dreadlock'd albino with reflective pink eyes (   ) I gave him a TNG Movie uniform that was also white with dark crimson piping, so he looked like the cadet who's mum does use New Biological Daz. Boy, did I stick out like... well, like a twat with bad taste frankly.

Anyway, once in game I thought the graphics were very nice although the character animations were a bit off - did they use mo-cap? If they did they chose some fucking strange people for it. Oh and there are already people using the "Kirk Roll" as their sole means of ambulation... those jolly jokesters!

 Enjoyed the ground combat - will it stay like that? At low level I thought it showed promise, it's different and simple, which after the digit tautology I've endured with AoC, came as a refreshing change. Space combat I loved - crisp graphics, beautiful scenery, progressive ship damage. I only got to the active Borg Probes, but when I found myself fighting one at a spawn point and two more appeared and to help their mate I had a real fight on my hands - and it was fun! I even caught myself leaning to my right as my Mirander Cruiser heeled over to protect a downed shield, and I though "What the fuck" - I almost yelled "Fire all phasers!". Next time, I will...  

So, for a few hours I had a blast. And this is just beta - but, for me it bodes well.

Yes, yes: it's too early to say if Cryptic will knock this one out of the park - but I see the outfielders warily backing towards the fences as Cryptic swings.

[Nebu]

Plus the Cryptic Engine. That underpins their titles, which in turn underpins how their games are developed. Underpins the entire way of thinking. Saves time in development, but it only does so much and limits thinking in other ways.

I understand this.  I'm just wondering how that can produce such a fun and hectic combat experience in one MMO and then completely abandon it in another.  It's as if they are unwilling to take the gems that they have and apply them to a new model.  The gameplay style in STO seems like it was developed from scratch rather than a significant improvement of the more successful parts of prior titles.  I love innovation, but aren't incremental improvents your bread and butter?  (I'm looking at you, Mythic!). 

[Mrbloodworth]

Plus the Cryptic Engine. That underpins their titles, which in turn underpins how their games are developed. Underpins the entire way of thinking. Saves time in development, but it only does so much and limits thinking in other ways.

I understand this.  I'm just wondering how that can produce such a fun and hectic combat experience in one MMO and then completely abandon it in another.  It's as if they are unwilling to take the gems that they have and apply them to a new model.  The gameplay style in STO seems like it was developed from scratch rather than a significant improvement of the more successful parts of prior titles.  I love innovation, but aren't incremental improvents your bread and butter?  (I'm looking at you, Mythic!).  

If you are referring to COX, the Cryptic engine I believe is Post COX sale. Its brand new for them, and not the same engine or game layer.

[Nebu]

If you are referring to COX, the Cryptic engine I believe is Post COX sale. Its brand new for them, and not the same engine or game layer.

I'm not talking about the engine at all.  What I'm trying to get at is this:  When you serendipitously create "fun" in an MMO, why would you toss it aside completely in an effort to find a totally different kind of fun?  Perhaps Ghambit was right.  The kind of fun they produced with CoH didn't generate enough revenue so they gave up on it in a gamble to find something with greater "mass appeal".  I think it's a mistake.  Then again, I'm a huge fan of more niche titles with less graphics glitz and more gameplay flair. 

[Numtini]

One big question is who's left with Cryptic that was a major player in COX?

[Mrbloodworth]

If you are referring to COX, the Cryptic engine I believe is Post COX sale. Its brand new for them, and not the same engine or game layer.

I'm not talking about the engine at all.  What I'm trying to get at is this:  When you serendipitously create "fun" in an MMO, why would you toss it aside completely in an effort to find a totally different kind of fun?  Perhaps Ghambit was right.  The kind of fun they produced with CoH didn't generate enough revenue so they gave up on it in a gamble to find something with greater "mass appeal".  I think it's a mistake.  Then again, I'm a huge fan of more niche titles with less graphics glitz and more gameplay flair. 

Well, even something as simple as movement, engine to engine, can be hard to reproduce. I think in part you are talking about the engine, you just don't know it. :)

Fun, is inevitably the creation of various systems with in the game layer. If you switch engines, and game layers, recreating such systems to emulate the prior version (especially now that a whole NEW set of variables are in the mix, such as shaders, or new collision code) can be almost imposable.

IE: The 0.003 setting for forward movement may have been all well and fine in engine/game layer X, in fact it was awesome "feeling", however engine/game layer B has per pixel lighting, and your setting for forward movement now "Feels" off because of the minute change in render time. As a abstract example.

It would be like you trying to recreate a delicate and volatile compound, however your graduated cylinders are made by someone else and slightly green, and your Bunsen burner runs a bit hotter than the previous.

[Lantyssa]

Here's what I don't get.  Cryptic makes CoH/CoV.  A game that really came close to being a title I (and many) would play and enjoy for some time.  How is it that they can get that close on a project and then take a bunch of money and blow it on something going in COMPLETELY THE OPPOSITE (maybe wrong, we'll see) DIRECTION?

Because a good number of the people who worked on CoX stayed with that project when it was sold off.  Especially a lot of the systems designers.

[Ratman_tf]

I think I like the abstracted sector map thing. It's intuitive and easy enough so less beardy players can get their ship from place to place.

And I'm hating how I can't figure out how to fiddle with my hotbar. I seem to remember having the same problem with CoX.

[Sheepherder]

Did someone mention that space was two dimensional?

Because for some reason, that doesn't seem right.

[Riggswolfe]

Did someone mention that space was two dimensional?

Because for some reason, that doesn't seem right.

It is and it isn't. You can go up and down, for instance, I've been way above battles. However, attacks comes from front, back, or side, and not from top and bottom. IE, if I "dive" down on a Klingon my attack will hit one of those four angles and not the top of his ship.

[Nevermore]

I reloaded and took another look. At first, I thought they were getting bumped up on the Z axis by terrain, but they're actually doing the jump animation. I can only assume that these new Borg are assimilated Kangaroonites.

Does STO have collision detection?  I know in CoX collision detection used to cause large groups of npcs to exhibit the same behavior to resolve the 'can't occupy the same space' problem when grouped in small spaces.

[rattran]

Yes, there's collision detection. Doesn't seem to work too well. But that sums up about every bit of the game I've seen so far.

And it doesn't feel Star Trekky in the least.

[Trippy]

One big question is who's left with Cryptic that was a major player in COX?

Just Jack Emmertt AFAIK. CoH/CoV has many talented people working on it and they all decided to leave Cryptic to join NCsoft (Jack wasn't actively involved with CoH development at this point) instead of staying which tells you a lot about Cryptic and working for Emmertt. It was very easy to see that the level of talent working on CO was far below the CoH/CoV team they used to have.

[01101010]

God damn you all... now I want to actually get a beta key and play this in open beta. AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHY...

[Malakili]

God damn you all... now I want to actually get a beta key and play this in open beta. AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHY...

Let me bring you back down.  The best impressions here have been by people that started playing it in Open Beta (I may be wrong here, but that is what it seems like).  Those of us who have been playing longer have seen the luster wear off already, and whats left is really not worth it. 

Don't get me wrong, there are a few things in this game that aren't garbage, but I still maintain that the total package is.

[Ghambit]

I think I like the abstracted sector map thing. It's intuitive and easy enough so less beardy players can get their ship from place to place.

And I'm hating how I can't figure out how to fiddle with my hotbar. I seem to remember having the same problem with CoX.

Yet another element left out of manuals and tuts.  You've gotta RIGHT-CLICK to manipulate your hotbar.  Not left-click.
I kinda like the sector map as well, they're just way too small in the beginning levels and it feels cramped.  Maybe it opens up later, I dunno.
Also, the sector map was just supposed to be one way to navigate, not the only way.  For now it's all we've got though.

[01101010]

Let me bring you back down.  The best impressions here have been by people that started playing it in Open Beta (I may be wrong here, but that is what it seems like).  Those of us who have been playing longer have seen the luster wear off already, and whats left is really not worth it. 

Don't get me wrong, there are a few things in this game that aren't garbage, but I still maintain that the total package is.

Oh I am well prepared for reality to curbstomp me. However, I think playing a free open beta would be just enough. I am one to always be curious about a game, no matter how awful it turns out to be. It never really matters how many warnings I get, I like to (need to) try something and agree rather than just give the crowd a rahrumph!

damn my curiosity.

[Ghambit]

I look at it like the fools that were willing to play ChampO may as well play STO, because in reality it's probably a better product with better long-term potential.  But, then we just get into arguments over varying degrees of MMO suckage, rather than what sux and what doesnt.

[Malakili]

I look at it like the fools that were willing to play ChampO may as well play STO, because in reality it's probably a better product with better long-term potential.  But, then we just get into arguments over varying degrees of MMO suckage, rather than what sux and what doesnt.

I think part of it for me (as someone who got some fun out of Champions), is that a goofy super hero beat em up game can get away with being shallow and feature light as long as I get to beat up bad guys.   Star Trek doesn't have that luxury, but its suffers from the same things.  Its not the Champions is better or worse, really, but just that I can find it in my heart to forgive a lot more in a shlocky super hero game.