Star Trek Online: Here We Go Again!

[Sjofn]

I dont think you can use that term in this setting. Star trek is about grouping.

Is this a catass forced grouping MMO request?

Star trek is about GROUPS.

Star Trek is a TV show. Nothing about that or the lore or whatever forces the MMO to do any particular thing. Their goal is to make money; thus the design they seem to have come up with that doesn't involve making someone sit in the engineering room all day.

I would totally sit in the engineering room if I had a puzzle to do like in Puzzle Pirates. I didn't mind sitting in the bottom of the ship building or doing carpentry, after all. <3

[Ghambit]

All they'd have to do is a system similar to Bioshock's "hacking" console and they're done.  You can modify the speed of the hack based on the skill of the player character.  A simple interactive puzzle Console like in Tabula Rasa is also an option.  It's REALLY not that hard to implement.  But, like we've said... will/can they do it?  doubtful.  And this is a system someone could code and design in a day. (assuming it's even from scratch)

Aside from that, a simple crew quarter to play poker in would be awesome.

And if Cryptic were REALLY smart, they'd steal a lot of ideas from Star Trek: Elite Force (which had minigames for tricorder, doors, jeffrey's tube, phasers, etc.).  That was arguably the most well-designed trek game ever done.  They still use it to this day to run trek orpg's.  Matter of fact, the combat system in Elite Force is nothing to sneeze at either.  Better than most every MMO out there... granted, it is an FPS.

They need to hire some phuckin Level Designers for STO, not a gaggle of nerdraged premadonna "Quest designers."  Make a sleak level designer GUI ala UT3 and put some gifted designers to work.  T'wer me I'd release my level designer well before my game even released and put the modding public to work; hire em if they're any good... use their stuff regardless.

[kildorn]

Crap, our engineer logged out for dinner, we're sitting ducks!

For once a comment like this is actually silly. This is Star Trek! You can beam up a new engineer. If that engineer is too far away then divert power from the warp core so you can apply enough thalarons to adjust the frequency range of the Heisenberg compensators.



Duh. *Smacks kildorn on the forehead*

Man, in what Star Trek episode does the transporter actually work when you need it for something more complicated than going on vacation to the surface.

[Draegan]

I never got that Star Trek episode when they had Klingon loose on the Enterprise and they were causing mayhem.  Why didn't they just beam them into a holding cell?

[Reg]

Point to point internal transports are incredibly scary and difficult and dangerous except in those cases where they just get used with no comment to advance the plot.

[Trippy]

I never got that Star Trek episode when they had Klingon loose on the Enterprise and they were causing mayhem.  Why didn't they just beam them into a holding cell?

I'm blanking on the episode. Was this TOS or TNG-era?

[kildorn]

I never got that Star Trek episode when they had Klingon loose on the Enterprise and they were causing mayhem.  Why didn't they just beam them into a holding cell? fucking space

:P

[Montague]

I never got that Star Trek episode when they had Klingon loose on the Enterprise and they were causing mayhem.  Why didn't they just beam them into a holding cell?

I'm blanking on the episode. Was this TOS or TNG-era?

Day of the Dove, TOS era.

Edit - To answer the question the alien whozeewhatzit that was making them fight had control of the ship. The humans and klingons had to act all nicey nice to get the thing to leave.

/nerdoff

[Draegan]

I never got that Star Trek episode when they had Klingon loose on the Enterprise and they were causing mayhem.  Why didn't they just beam them into a holding cell?

I'm blanking on the episode. Was this TOS or TNG-era?

TNG.  It was two Klingons.  They had hidden pieces of phasers in their armor that they could put together.  I can't remember much else from the episode off the top of my head.  But I remember thinking that the whole episode was stupid.

Edit:  Hah! Ok it looks like the recycled that one.

[UnSub]

Separate player controlled stations are unlikely at this point:

Among the most novel ideas posited by Perpetual was the notion of player-manned starship crews -- imagine different players occupying different stations aboard a ship, working in concert to operate its myriad systems. In contrast, Emmert describes Cryptic's approach as "definitely far more autonomous." One player, one captain, one ship. But he admits that Perpetual's collaborative approach to space exploration continues to intrigue his team. "We had talked early on about the possibility of players fulfilling different positions in the ship," he stated. "Though there's interesting gameplay there potentially, I think it's certainly more engaging if everyone has their own ship. It may be a direction we go in the future; we certainly haven't ruled it out."

He does seem mindful of the challenges. Compared to the immediacy of captaining a starship and all the explosive potential it entails, designing gameplay around the distinct, iconic roles we remember from "Star Trek" requires a bit of deliberation. "The difficulty is that you have to find moment-to-moment gameplay for your security station, for your tactical station, for your science station, that is as interesting and compelling as flying the ship and shooting things and blowing things up," Emmert said. "We had discussed a number of ways of doing it, but then there's also technical hurdles, like getting everyone in the ship, and [determining] what view, what they're seeing."

[Slyfeind]

Although Puzzle Pirates points out a potential way of having a player-crewed ship, that MMO makes it very easy to hop from ship to ship and it is very easy to flip between stations / mini-games. I'm not sure it would be good for STO to follow this path, where Chief Engineers jump ships in the Alpha Quadrant to join another in the Delta Quadrant, meaning the Security Officer now has to take over Engineering to keep things moving.

We could take another cue from Puzzle Pirates, and instantly replace the PC engineer with an NPC engineer, as soon as the PC engineer left. Or just say "hell with it" and let every player perform every station. I'd prefer that, because if we want class interdependency, it's best to let any player emulate any class at any time. The most necessary classes are historically the most painful to play, so there's always a shortage of them.

[Draegan]

For everyone who likes the idea of multi-PC controlled ships go play a month on any Star Trek MOO and if you think that's fun you can talk.

[Signe]

For everyone who likes the idea of multi-PC controlled ships go play a month on any Star Trek MOO and if you think that's fun you can talk.

I don't know what this means.   

[Draegan]

For everyone who likes the idea of multi-PC controlled ships go play a month on any Star Trek MOO and if you think that's fun you can talk.

I don't know what this means.   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOO

A MOO was basically a social/sandbox/RPing MUD.  All MUDs were basic DIKUs, where MOOs were mostly social sandbox adventure games, no levels and no equipment dependence, mostly.

[Montague]

For everyone who likes the idea of multi-PC controlled ships go play a month on any Star Trek MOO and if you think that's fun you can talk.

I don't know what this means.   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOO

A MOO was basically a social/sandbox/RPing MUD.  All MUDs were basic DIKUs, where MOOs were mostly social sandbox adventure games, no levels and no equipment dependence, mostly.

Yup. Regardless of the technical or gameplay aspects of multi-character ships, I think a lot of you underestimate the sheer looniness of the fanbase this game is going to attract. Star Wars geeks have nothing on Trek lore-whores.

[Mrbloodworth]

There is already a precedent for multi-Player ships. SWG:JTL.

I think the real problem is no one wants to think outside the DIKU box. As far as classes, we all know everyone on the bridge can do everyones else job, the key he is some have a higher proficiency than others, thats what makes warf a better tactical officer than say, Geordi.

Orient all crews as "Groups" if you will, 6 people for normal sized ships. NPC's will take over stations at a base line proficiency (Increased over time by missions ETC, Call this "basic crew level"). All consoles on the ship would be minigames of a sort.

The captain gets a mission, goes to a terminal and creates a "wanted crew" list, 3 slots are reserved for his guild mates (player chooses), the rest are completely open. Mission times like leaving, ETA and estimated completion time is listed to all who use this to find a mission/ship to transfer too.

Later that day....

So, say you are currently in a battle, you have your 6 mains on the bridge, manning this or that. Meanwhile, your taking hits, people are getting hurt...NPC's start to pile into the sick bay (Medical game play, successes count towards overall "mission" score) as well as the occasional Player. Geordi is on the bridge, diverting power, and changing power signatures of the phasers that Warf is firing (Boath playing mini games). Sadly, Geordi over powered on the the phaser tubes things, and that happens to be located on deck 3, forward.  Geordi leaves the console, and NPC steps in with orders from Geordi to use "conservative" adjustments (from like an order list of 5, that can always be overridden by the captain, in fact the captain is the only one that can override orders of ANY NPC that someone else has set, the rest if by rank structure and discipline). Geordi makes his way to the panel he needs to repair, if not stopping by a replicator for some tools/spare parts. During this time, panels are exploding, NPC's are trying to repair systems (BASIC Competency + basic crew level")<-- see the possible need for more engineers here? They make it get done faster)

Warf on the other hand is playing a mini game, trying to target the system the captain just asked him to shoot (Captain knows more info on mission than anyone, his choice to inform others or not) But hes having to compensate for the loss of that phaser relay thing (widget). The science officer is analyzing the foe, or perhaps trying to crack the shield code..... but he got hit in the head, and the console is getting fuzzy (more medical needed)....

Anyway, i could keep going with all the possible combinations, and perhaps diffrent scenarios... But the point is, none gets individually rewarded, its all bout total mission score... Each mission starts and stops at a space station... Awards and the like are then passed out , ranks, medals, commissions ETC...

Same can be applied to the other side as well, Creating at least two factions, each with a player created ranking structure (yes, player government, there is your "By committee"). No one plays a non-"hero" role, thats all NPC's.

This could all be expanded a lot if i had more time. Also, before it some up, IF for some reason, you have no friends...or, no time. Every single thing above is done by NPC's, so its also completely solo able... But it will be better, and result in better mission scores (maybe even secondary objectives) with a player crew.

Diffrent missions have diffrent goals... and possible solution, and definitely diffrent completing scores. Everyone also has a permanent record (automated BIO =)

/Of-the-top-of-head-ramblings

The worst possible thing that could happen to the ST/IP is Ding/gratz/loot....

[Signe]

I know what a MOO is, I just didn't understand your comment.  I do now, though.  I was reading it funny.  Sorry.

[Draegan]

There is already a precedent for multi-Player ships. SWG:JTL.

I think the real problem is no one wants to think outside the DIKU box. As far as classes, we all know everyone on the bridge can do everyones else job, the key he is some have a higher proficiency than others, thats what makes warf a better tactical officer than say, Geordi.

Orient all crews as "Groups" if you will, 6 people for normal sized ships. NPC's will take over stations at a base line proficiency (Increased over time by missions ETC, Call this "basic crew level"). All consoles on the ship would be minigames of a sort.

The captain gets a mission, goes to a terminal and creates a "wanted crew" list, 3 slots are reserved for his guild mates (player chooses), the rest are completely open. Mission times like leaving, ETA and estimated completion time is listed to all who use this to find a mission/ship to transfer too.

Later that day....

So, say you are currently in a battle, you have your 6 mains on the bridge, manning this or that. Meanwhile, your taking hits, people are getting hurt...NPC's start to pile into the sick bay (Medical game play, successes count towards overall "mission" score) as well as the occasional Player. Geordi is on the bridge, diverting power, and changing power signatures of the phasers that Warf is firing (Boath playing mini games). Sadly, Geordi over powered on the the phaser tubes things, and that happens to be located on deck 3, forward.  Geordi leaves the console, and NPC steps in with orders from Geordi to use "conservative" adjustments (from like an order list of 5, that can always be overridden by the captain, in fact the captain is the only one that can override orders of ANY NPC that someone else has set, the rest if by rank structure and discipline). Geordi makes his way to the panel he needs to repair, if not stopping by a replicator for some tools/spare parts. During this time, panels are exploding, NPC's are trying to repair systems (BASIC Competency + basic crew level")<-- see the possible need for more engineers here? They make it get done faster)

Warf on the other hand is playing a mini game, trying to target the system the captain just asked him to shoot (Captain knows more info on mission than anyone, his choice to inform others or not) But hes having to compensate for the loss of that phaser relay thing (widget). The science officer is analyzing the foe, or perhaps trying to crack the shield code..... but he got hit in the head, and the console is getting fuzzy (more medical needed)....

Anyway, i could keep going with all the possible combinations, and perhaps diffrent scenarios... But the point is, none gets individually rewarded, its all bout total mission score... Each mission starts and stops at a space station... Awards and the like are then passed out , ranks, medals, commissions ETC...

Same can be applied to the other side as well, Creating at least two factions, each with a player created ranking structure (yes, player government, there is your "By committee"). No one plays a non-"hero" role, thats all NPC's.

This could all be expanded a lot if i had more time. Also, before it some up, IF for some reason, you have no friends...or, no time. Every single thing above is done by NPC's, so its also completely solo able... But it will be better, and result in better mission scores (maybe even secondary objectives) with a player crew.

Diffrent missions have diffrent goals... and possible solution, and definitely diffrent completing scores. Everyone also has a permanent record (automated BIO =)

/Of-the-top-of-head-ramblings

The worst possible thing that could happen to the ST/IP is Ding/gratz/loot....

That sounds like Puzzle Pirates on steroids but with 3d graphics, a multi million dollar budget, and a whole lot of unfun.  This game would fail as a DIKU standard.  But your game doesn't seem fun in my opinion.  How are you coordinating all of that?  What are these mini games they are playing?  Are they fun enough for 1-2 hour play sessions 2-4 times a week for months on end to justify a subscription?

[Mrbloodworth]

Its was a picture painted with words. I'm not going to do an entire design doc on it. I do have alot of other ideas, and possible "Fill in the gaps", but yeah... I don't see it as DIKU at all.

More like a virtual world, with guided experiences and sandboxy player government.

[HaemishM]

That trailer was a mess. A. Mess.

Yeah. The fact that none of the on-foot stuff was shown for more than 2 seconds and what was shown looked amazingly underwhelming made me think we're headed towards some serious fail. The ships looked pretty but the ship combat... I get no idea what the combat actually plays out like. Is it Earth & Beyond? Eve? Bad bad trailer.

[Arrrgh]

Who were those mini death star looking ships in the trailer?

[Trippy]

A Borg sphere-ship like the one in First Contact. They had them in Voyager too.

[Samwise]

But your game doesn't seem fun in my opinion.  How are you coordinating all of that?  What are these mini games they are playing?  Are they fun enough for 1-2 hour play sessions 2-4 times a week for months on end to justify a subscription?

I'd play the shit out of something that wasa bit like Puzzle Pirates but didn't punish me for having to go to bed (some of those ship jobs would go on for hours and you were boned if you had to leave early) and had consistently fun minigames (god I got tired of sailing).

[Sjofn]

I'd play the shit out of something that wasa bit like Puzzle Pirates but didn't punish me for having to go to bed (some of those ship jobs would go on for hours and you were boned if you had to leave early) and had consistently fun minigames (god I got tired of sailing).

Man, that was my problem with Puzzle Pirates too. Especially when you'd get on a brig and it's been three hours and OH GOD WHY WON'T YOU PORT AUGH.

However, I played it again recently and it seems like no matter when you leave, you will get your share of the booty, so it's not nearly as bad now. It is still a bummer when you wind up doing the same job for an hour though (carpentry was what I would get stuck on, waaah).

[UnSub]

New faq. I've tried to pull out the interesting bits.

What races will we be able to play?
The plan is Human, Vulcan, Andorian, Klingon, Orion, Gorn, and several others. You will also be able to create your own race with its own custom look and attributes.

Will everyone be the Captain of their own ship?
Yes, but you will have to earn the responsibility and skill to command larger and more powerful vessels. Remember, in Star Trek as well as naval tradition, whoever commands the ship is the "Captain," even if it is not your current rank.

Can I play something other than a Captain like a Doctor or an Engineer?
Everyone is a Captain, (remember, if you command a ship, you are automatically a Captain), and you will command a crew, but that does not limit your role. Your character will still be able to choose from a variety of career paths, such as Engineer, Tactical Officer, Doctor, Science Officer, etc. Your career path is your root, and will affect your skills, and how you command your crew. Consider Jean-Luc Picard, Beverly Crusher, Worf and Kathryn Janeway. Picard was an archeologist and diplomat, Crusher was a doctor, Worf a security/tactical officer, and Janeway was a scientist. Each eventually chose a career in command and became ship captains. This does not mean the game will limit your ship choices based on your profession – far from it. The examples are simply an example of how the game design was inspired.

How will I be able to play with my friends?
In space, you can form teams and do missions together. Space battles will occur between multiple player and NPC vessels. When you do a ground mission, the mission owner can build an away team that consists of other players. Outside of combat, there will be numerous community building features, locations, hubs and events that will bring players together.

Will console and PC players be on the same servers?
We would like that to be the case. There is nothing technologically keeping us from making it so.

Will there be realistic travel times in space?
Travel times will be semi-realistic, with a focus on fun. Space is big, and it can take a very long time to travel great distances. That travel time can be impractically long. We will introduce transwarp conduit technology and worm holes to allow players to travel to distant sectors of the galaxy without needing days or weeks of gameplay to do so.

The problem with team-based ships is that PUGs could become exercises in frustration as your Weapons Officer refuses to raise the shields or your Security Officer goes afk just before the ship gets boarded. Puzzle Pirates kind of solved this issue by having a lot of positions available for players of all levels. Star Trek generally doesn't have 8 Chief Security Officers, 5 Head Doctors, 8 Chief Engineers and then any more than 2 people standing around being useless (the Wesley and Troi positions), nor does it have its specialised officers generally flipping into other roles at the drop of a hat.

[rk47]

sigh well can i at least...'walk around in the entreprise'?

[kildorn]

sigh well can i at least...'walk around in the entreprise'?

Ambulation is coming soo... wait, wrong game.

[Merusk]

Consider Jean-Luc Picard, Beverly Crusher, Worf and Kathryn Janeway. Picard was an archeologist and diplomat, Crusher was a doctor, Worf a security/tactical officer, and Janeway was a scientist. Each eventually chose a career in command and became ship captains.

Geek-out moment... when did Beverly Crusher become a Captain?   Also, I thought Worf was still security, just called a Captain because he was in command of a ship...

[Reg]

In the last episode of TNG (All Good Things) when Picard jumped to the future we found that Beverly had become a Captain and was commanding a specialized medical vessel.

[Mrbloodworth]

In the last episode of TNG (All Good Things) when Picard jumped to the future we found that Beverly had become a Captain and was commanding a specialized medical vessel.

Yep yep.

[Merusk]

OOh right.  I remember that now that you mention it. I've only ever seen that episode twice (first airing and about 5 years ago) so I'd forgotten. Thx.

[Montague]

Crap, ok now I'm excited. 

Why do I do this to myself?

[tmp]

The worst possible thing that could happen to the ST/IP is Ding/gratz/loot....

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/13/

[Soln]

How do I unlock the Borg class?


Where does the [giant blue hand] drop?   

[Tannhauser]

New faq. I've tried to pull out the interesting bits.

What races will we be able to play?
The plan is Human, Vulcan, Andorian, Klingon, Orion, Gorn, and several others. You will also be able to create your own race with its own custom look and attributes.

Will everyone be the Captain of their own ship?
Yes, but you will have to earn the responsibility and skill to command larger and more powerful vessels. Remember, in Star Trek as well as naval tradition, whoever commands the ship is the "Captain," even if it is not your current rank.

Can I play something other than a Captain like a Doctor or an Engineer?
Everyone is a Captain, (remember, if you command a ship, you are automatically a Captain), and you will command a crew, but that does not limit your role. Your character will still be able to choose from a variety of career paths, such as Engineer, Tactical Officer, Doctor, Science Officer, etc. Your career path is your root, and will affect your skills, and how you command your crew. Consider Jean-Luc Picard, Beverly Crusher, Worf and Kathryn Janeway. Picard was an archeologist and diplomat, Crusher was a doctor, Worf a security/tactical officer, and Janeway was a scientist. Each eventually chose a career in command and became ship captains. This does not mean the game will limit your ship choices based on your profession – far from it. The examples are simply an example of how the game design was inspired.

How will I be able to play with my friends?
In space, you can form teams and do missions together. Space battles will occur between multiple player and NPC vessels. When you do a ground mission, the mission owner can build an away team that consists of other players. Outside of combat, there will be numerous community building features, locations, hubs and events that will bring players together.

Will console and PC players be on the same servers?
We would like that to be the case. There is nothing technologically keeping us from making it so.

Will there be realistic travel times in space?
Travel times will be semi-realistic, with a focus on fun. Space is big, and it can take a very long time to travel great distances. That travel time can be impractically long. We will introduce transwarp conduit technology and worm holes to allow players to travel to distant sectors of the galaxy without needing days or weeks of gameplay to do so.

The problem with team-based ships is that PUGs could become exercises in frustration as your Weapons Officer refuses to raise the shields or your Security Officer goes afk just before the ship gets boarded. Puzzle Pirates kind of solved this issue by having a lot of positions available for players of all levels. Star Trek generally doesn't have 8 Chief Security Officers, 5 Head Doctors, 8 Chief Engineers and then any more than 2 people standing around being useless (the Wesley and Troi positions), nor does it have its specialised officers generally flipping into other roles at the drop of a hat.

Is this different than your healer going for a smoke and not telling anyone?  Or your Mage refusing not to draw aggro?  Just saw the trailer and was very impressed.  I like the idea of each person having their own ship but I hope they don't speed up the battle.  I would like Wrath of Khan type fighting but I think I will not get my way.