Star Trek Online: Here We Go Again!

[stray]

DS9 was my favorite of the bunch, but I never cared for the big Dominion war stuff. I liked it mostly for the comedy and spacestation/civilian life. And most of all, a kickass recurring villain. Also, the kickass tailor helped.

[Sir T]

There was some really great characters and acting on the show, I will give it that. But the dominion crap was totally contrived and there was a lot of subtle militirism and racism (classed as "genetics" ) in the show that put me right off it.

[Draegan]

I thought the whole war thread is what made the show better.  It was boring after the shiny wore off.

[HaemishM]

The war was what really made DS9 interesting, but at its best, it was still no B5.

And none of the Star Trek stuff deserves a fucking MMO.

[Draegan]

The war was what really made DS9 interesting, but at its best, it was still no B5.

And none of the Star Trek stuff deserves a fucking MMO.

I should watch B5 again.  I never did get to finish that series.  Missed the last year or so.  Stupid college.

[HaemishM]

The last season was not great. It had some good moments, and the final episode brought tears to my eyes. But it was no season 4 or even 2.

[lamaros]

Yeah, that was an excellent trilogy.  Almost as good as Apprentice/Master, or perhaps just as good.  Hrmmm.

Co-written doesn't really count as his.

(Also, the Empire trilogy is a bit shit eh. Fantasy writers should stick to their shtick and try not to get too clever: they generally aren't capable of pulling it off. Racist stereotyping as an original world and high politics! Art!)

I recall being utterly clueless at why Paul decided to become a self-hating hermit when I read Messiah, and needed more. I was basically saying "wtf?" the whole time he did that. That's how self important I am. I'd need at least Children of Dune to even be aware of what the Golden Path was. Then I needed the rest just to see what an complete cunt Leto was.

What we need is a series of shit fantasy novels to explain stuff like the bible, Joyce, Homer, Plato, et cetera. Then people who don't get it the first time can sortofbutnotreally get it without having to re-read the applicable material and think about things and work it out; learning is always better when it is didactic...

[stray]

That's nice and all, but the Golden Path had nothing to do with any of that.

[Ratman_tf]

Dune would be considerably easier than Star Trek.  The problem with Star Trek is that the canonical work almost entirely character driven, very little of it is about the overall universe of Star Trek, and that little is not easily adapted to a game.  Dune was more about the world than the characters, who were mostly vehicles for exposition about the world.  A Dune MMO would be about the same level of difficulty as LotR.
--Dave

Bwuh? Dune was about smoking the cosmic doobie and becoming a godhead with trippy powers. I'd say it was more character driven than Star Trek. By far.

IMHO?

[stray]

I'm gonna have to agree with Dave about that. Not that the characters were bland, but the stories span a period of thousands of years, with a theme about how only chaos can further human evolution -- and how centralization of power and domestication will stagnate it. Everyone's a tool to keep driving that down your throat, instead of chronicling anyone's particular little adventure.

[lamaros]

I'm gonna have to agree with Dave about that. Not that the characters were bland, but the stories span a period of thousands of years, with a theme about how only chaos can further human evolution -- and how centralization of power and domestication will stagnate it. Everyone's a tool to keep driving that down your throat, instead of chronicling anyone's particular little adventure.

What does that have to do with making a game out of it? Dave's point extends only to the original planet...

 

[Ratman_tf]

?

[Sir T]

House Ordos for the win.

[UnSub]

That the thread has degenerated into a discussion of Dune after less than 2 pages is ALSO an indicator of how badly a ST MMO does NOT need to be made.

We've got 40 days to kill before something happens, so I'm not surprised we've derailed.

Plus there are only so many times we can say that STO is a license of / for the damned.

[rk47]

hahah phaser combat anyone? Set laser to stun , point , szweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzz, beam hits guy, stun.
I saw that on TV when I was a kid and didn't feel a single ounce of awesome from that scene.

[stray]

I'm gonna have to agree with Dave about that. Not that the characters were bland, but the stories span a period of thousands of years, with a theme about how only chaos can further human evolution -- and how centralization of power and domestication will stagnate it. Everyone's a tool to keep driving that down your throat, instead of chronicling anyone's particular little adventure.

What does that have to do with making a game out of it? Dave's point extends only to the original planet...

 

""

Really? "Ye gods". This is on that level to you?

I thought Dave's point extends to the trilogy. Besides that, I'm just replying to Ratman's general point about Dune, and making a general point of my own.

You should find other things about me to get disgusted about. I feel cheapened if I'm just getting shit about "Dune". That sucks. 

[WindupAtheist]

I kinda like the old David Lynch Dune movie.  There, I said it.  I mean it doesn't make any god damned sense, I don't enjoy it in the way I do most movies, it's just so bizzare and baroque that I can't help watching it.  I would totally be interested in a game with that same strange atmosphere.

[MahrinSkel]

I kinda like the old David Lynch Dune movie.  There, I said it.  I mean it doesn't make any god damned sense, I don't enjoy it in the way I do most movies, it's just so bizzare and baroque that I can't help watching it.  I would totally be interested in a game with that same strange atmosphere.

I understand there was a 9-hour cut that actually made sense.  However, nobody scanned it into digital, and both the negatives and the prints have been lost.

--Dave

[stray]

I thought it was closer to 6 hours. Could be wrong though!

The styling of the Lynch film kicked ass. Loved the stillsuits, the Guild, the Harkonnens, the weirding way.. And a lot of the actors were excellent.

The writing wasn't great though -- I mean, for one, there were tons of scenes with characters' thoughts dubbed over. Which, as far as I'm concerned, is a no-no with film. Great with novels, but film needs to communicate, for the most part, through action.

There's a new film being developed now, I hear. I think if they could just find a middle ground between Lynch and the (underbudgeted) Sci-Fi channel version, we'd finally get a great Dune flick.

[Ratman_tf]

I thought it was closer to 6 hours. Could be wrong though!

The styling of the Lynch film kicked ass. Loved the stillsuits, the Guild, the Harkonnens, the weirding way.. And a lot of the actors were excellent.

The writing wasn't great though -- I mean, for one, there were tons of scenes with characters' thoughts dubbed over. Which, as far as I'm concerned, is a no-no with film. Great with novels, but film needs to communicate, for the most part, through action.

There's a new film being developed now, I hear. I think if they could just find a middle ground between Lynch and the (underbudgeted) Sci-Fi channel version, we'd finally get a great Dune flick.

Children of Dune (the miniseries) was pretty sweet. IMHO. The first Dune miniseries was kinda flat.

I have great fondness for the Lynch version of Dune, even if it (again IMO) strayed too far from it's source.

Hm. I better put something in here to stay on topic...

[Murgos]

I thought it was closer to 6 hours. Could be wrong though!

I saw one version that was much extended, don't know if it was 6 hours though.  The thing about it was that there really wasn't that much more live acting, there were a lot of painted/static images with voice overs doing back ground material.  Talked a lot about the Butlerian Jihad, did a lot more background on the planets, Orange Catholicism and etc...  Nothing that wasn't in the books though.

[Sunbury]

The last season was not great. It had some good moments, and the final episode brought tears to my eyes. But it was no season 4 or even 2.

FYI, that was because his orginal plans were messed up:

...but going into the fourth season, the impending demise of network PTEN left a fifth year in doubt.  Unable to get word one way or the other from parent company Warner Bros., and unwilling to short-change the story and the fans, Straczynski began preparing modifications to the fourth season in order to allow for both eventualities. Straczynski identified three primary plot-threads which would require resolution: the Shadow war, Earth's slide into a dictatorship, and a series of sub-threads which branched off from those. Estimating they would still take around 27 episodes to resolve without having the season feel rushed, the solution came when the TNT network commissioned two Babylon 5 made-for-television films. Several hours of material was thus able to be moved into the films, including a three-episode arc which would deal with the background to the Earth/Minbari war, and a sub-thread which would have set up the sequel series, Crusade. Further standalone episodes and plot-threads were dropped from season four, which could be inserted into Crusade, or the fifth season, were it to be given the greenlight.[20] The intended series finale, "Sleeping in Light," was filmed during season four as a precaution against cancellation. When word came that TNT had picked up Babylon 5, this was moved to the end of season five and replaced with a newly-filmed season four finale.[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_5

[Ratman_tf]

FYI, that was because his orginal plans were messed up:

#1. TNT wouldn't "Know Drama" if it bit them in the dick.

#2. JMS spent too much time on the Teep rebellion in season 5. It was boring and lame. (And gothy  ) More stuff about Centauri, Narn and the cleaning up of the Shadow War pls!

[HaemishM]

The Teep Rebellion could have been good, but it just wasn't. It felt a lot like the BSG stuff that's going on now, a lot of padding padding padding then OMGZSHITRESOLVEITNOW! And then it was left alone. We didn't really get any of the Telepath War.

Also, I knew the bit about the Sleeping in Light being filmed at the end of season 4. It still doesn't explain why given a full season, JMS made season 5 so uneven.

[Reg]

A lot of the familiar actors weren't around for season 5. That had to have made it harder for the writers who had developed the characters for the last four years.

[Riggswolfe]

I'll only play a Star Trek MMO if I can be Melee DPS who fights using on Kirksian Martial Arts.

Come on...double neck chop? shirt tearing? thigh grab? What's not to love?

[HaemishM]

Skill Tree: Trek Fu

[MahrinSkel]

Or Vulcan Judo: Numb your opponent into a dazed state by droning on about the logical and philosophical implications of the B Plot, then pinch them on the neck.

--Dave

[Lum]

Skill Tree: Trek Fu

Only if you get the soundtrack.

[Count Nerfedalot]

The Lynch film version of Dune was wonderful and frustrating all at once.   Every single actor seemed to be cast perfectly with the possible exception of Paul himself.  Although whatsisname did a brilliant performance, it just wasn't the Paul I'd imaged from the books.

But there is one thing I've never forgiven that film for. 

Ornithopters. 

Or the total lack thereof. 

On the "real" Arrakis, flying machines were ornithopters - with flapping wings dammit!  Not anti-gravity based flying Toblerone bars!

[Sir T]

The Teep Rebellion could have been good, but it just wasn't. It felt a lot like the BSG stuff that's going on now, a lot of padding padding padding then OMGZSHITRESOLVEITNOW! And then it was left alone. We didn't really get any of the Telepath War.

Also, I knew the bit about the Sleeping in Light being filmed at the end of season 4. It still doesn't explain why given a full season, JMS made season 5 so uneven.

The Minbari civil war was far more interesting and only lasted about 2 and a half fucking episodes.

Every time someone went to the toilet in the earth civil massacre had to be filmed though. I actually stopped watching about 4 episodes to the end of season 4.

Oh and to keep it on topic

[qhue]

Any effort to adapt existing IP, especially IP that comes from such a prolific source is both a blessing and a curse.  Blessing in that you have, potentially, a treasure trove of already thought up concepts that you need merely to adapt.  Curse in that you have, guaranteed, a horrific time trying to not only translate an abstract concept into a strict gaming system but also the challenge of being complete and appropriately respectful to the game so that you dont piss off the fanbois.

I think I'd want to start from scratch with brand new IP just for the flexibility to create whatever makes the best game without crippling the effort.

As far as Star Trek goes : There's no way to do it justice because so much of everyone's expectation centers around the ship.   At best you would have a CoH superbase sytem that was instead a ship that you piloted around the universe and went on missions, but that requires that you have a semi-static group of people you are working with.   At worst you end up remaking privateer but with Orion Slave Girls... while compelling we've already seen that game and it was Galaxies

[UnSub]

The Cryptic counter is down to 3.5 hours before it's showtime.

Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen, place your bets...

[UnSub]

It's STO:

http://www.startrekonline.com

[UnSub]

It's an interesting set of ideas they've put forward - customisable avatars and ships, crew training, Klingon Empire and Federation...

The screenshots look good, but I'm half-convinced they are concept art. They look too good, in a way.

Ah well, early days. Plenty of time to screw it up yet.