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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: So what's Mass Market Again? Conan hits 1M (shipped). 0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: So what's Mass Market Again? Conan hits 1M (shipped).  (Read 251462 times)
photek
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Reply #35 on: June 06, 2008, 10:32:10 AM

one: war won't be a direct contender, yes it might be fun but come on, have you seen it? it's got doac 2.0 written all over it. I hope one day there'll be a wow-killer but the game that does it will be better funded and better designed from the get-go.

two: a lot of vitriol about wow always seems to be reactionary with no basis in reality. People did not leave the game in droves when BC came out and trivialized their epics or all their work, nor did they leave when they saw it was just another big grind.  wotlk will be the same old but that's what people seem to like so I don't see how your argument has any logical basis.

there's fanboy-ism and apparently anti-fanboyism and both are equally delusional.  I'm just an mmo addict I guess, games don't hold my loyalty, fun does so i go where that is.

In closing and feel free to enshrine this post for posterity...if WAR releases a month or two after wotlk, it will be the single most boneheaded move in mmo history.

One : I'm in the beta, so NDA Wish I could say some things, but yeah.

Two : I strongly believe you are wrong on many levels with that. Its not about trivializing epics nor being a grind solely, its about having alternatives. What alternatives were there to BC? Exactly. I'm not a fanboy of A nor B, I love World of Warcraft and I love WAR, but I'm just being realistic.

I had full tier 3/2/1, full AQ gear, was High Warlord and was in the nr.2 raiding guild at the time and I can tell you from several guild views at the time of TBC level 70 dinging if there was another alternative I know at least 16 top guilds and a bunch of followers due to community splitups that would follow. Thats people in my immediate area. That had nothing to do with my epics becoming shit, but cause the same old just fucking sucked. You know what the term for insanity is ? Doing the same over and over and over without different results. Sure there are lots of shitheads playing MMOs, but I refuse to believe that 10 million people are mentally insane.

My rogue somewhere in late 2006 just for proof :
http://home.no/renom/Rogue01.jpg
http://home.no/renom/bags.jpg
http://home.no/renom/bank.jpg
http://home.no/renom/herbbank.jpg

Also :

Quote
wotlk will be the same old but that's what people seem to like so I don't see how your argument has any logical basis.

Heh.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 10:34:35 AM by photek »

"I recently went to a new doctor and noticed he was located in something called the Professional Building. I felt better right away"
Lantyssa
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Reply #36 on: June 06, 2008, 11:53:19 AM

But you're easily distracted.   *jingles keys*
*pounce*

Sorry, what we were talking about?

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Kirth
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Reply #37 on: June 06, 2008, 11:55:41 AM

I am not keeping up with the news out of Blizzard but IMO I can't see Wrath launching this year I can however see WAR coming out this fall. In either case it is pretty obvious that funcom made a calculated risk and pushed out a game that wasn't finished in hopes people would stick with it past the release of the two W's.
Tale
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Reply #38 on: June 06, 2008, 01:00:38 PM

Well maybe not that much time invested, I got five characters past 30 and I consider myself to have played causually until now, but seems the "median" leveling base currently is 40-50. At least on my server (Soulstorm PvP EU) and this server was opened 4 days after US launch. Tortage takes about 4-5 hours to complete once you have done it once, 20-30 takes about 4-5 hours, 30-40 takes about 7-10 hours depending where you quest and how efficient you are. Ah well say in a week then the median will be 50, it is still Eiglophian Mountains you are hitting and finding out that you gotta grind. My question is if this is how it is at level 50-60-70, what is there for 80 endgame ? Thinking even more about it, I still think there won't be more than 250-300k subscribers in this game throughout the summer.

EDIT: I lied, I got four characters past 30. My Guardian is at 27.
I had full tier 3/2/1, full AQ gear, was High Warlord and was in the nr.2 raiding guild

Uh, casual to you is not casual to reality. What you described is hardcore play and you belong to a tiny minority of gamers.

The typical casual player probably doesn't own AoC yet. If they do, they have one character and Tortage is a huge journey.
Abelian75
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Reply #39 on: June 06, 2008, 01:16:48 PM

[You know what the term for insanity is ? Doing the same over and over and over without different results. 

The quote is actually that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and EXPECTING different results.  But more importantly, that isn't actually the definition of insanity.  Nor is it even a particularly insane way to behave, as it is quite normal to get different results from doing the same thing over and over.

(Yeah, I realize I'm being kinda obnoxious.)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 02:25:04 PM by Abelian75 »
El Gallo
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Reply #40 on: June 06, 2008, 03:39:36 PM

The casual gamer doesn't ever actually game, they just wake up and find themselves confused because they are thinking about playing a video game for a few seconds in the middle of the night once every fifth year. Then they roll over, go back to sleep and never think of video games for another 5 years.

If you have ever heard of Age of Conan, you are the .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the bleeding-edge ultracore.  If you have ever touched an Age of Conan disc, you obviously are permanently bonded to your computer chair by several years' worth of dried feces.  If you have ever logged in, you don't really exist.


This is the Gospel of f13.
Praise to you lord, Jesus Christ.

This post makes me want to squeeze into my badass red jeans.
Tale
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Reply #41 on: June 06, 2008, 04:11:01 PM

The casual gamer doesn't ever actually game, they just wake up and find themselves confused because they are thinking about playing a video game for a few seconds in the middle of the night once every fifth year. Then they roll over, go back to sleep and never think of video games for another 5 years.

If you have ever heard of Age of Conan, you are the .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the bleeding-edge ultracore.  If you have ever touched an Age of Conan disc, you obviously are permanently bonded to your computer chair by several years' worth of dried feces.  If you have ever logged in, you don't really exist.


This is the Gospel of f13.
Praise to you lord, Jesus Christ.

It was at my expense, but I lol'd.
K9
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Reply #42 on: June 06, 2008, 04:21:10 PM

I'm glad AoC is doing well, I hope WAR does too. Anything that helps shift the notion away from WOW=MMO can only be a good thing.

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Tale
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Reply #43 on: June 06, 2008, 04:47:00 PM

Anything that helps shift the notion away from WOW=MMO can only be a good thing.

Just been reading YouTube comments on an AoC video.

"what a friggin wow clone..."

"wow set the mold for mmo's true but i find this game much much more enjoyable"
Samwise
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Reply #44 on: June 06, 2008, 07:24:09 PM

 Get off my lawn!

 cry

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photek
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Reply #45 on: June 06, 2008, 08:23:25 PM

I'm glad AoC is doing well, I hope WAR does too. Anything that helps shift the notion away from WOW=MMO can only be a good thing.

Correct and agree 100%.

"I recently went to a new doctor and noticed he was located in something called the Professional Building. I felt better right away"
photek
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Reply #46 on: June 06, 2008, 09:00:55 PM

Uh, casual to you is not casual to reality. What you described is hardcore play and you belong to a tiny minority of gamers.

The typical casual player probably doesn't own AoC yet. If they do, they have one character and Tortage is a huge journey.

Well in terms of MMO's I'm considering casual play a few hours / a few days a week. Last week I've been online about three times, played a couple of hours each time, that is fairly casual. Still it is very easy to level in AoC up to level 50, I'm considering writing a guide, but in the end it is not needed. The secret to fast leveling is bomb squad playing and knowing the flow between zones. Bomb squad leveling means basically entering a place, picking up everything there is, go out and do everything, then come back and collect 1-2 levels worth of XP. Explanation of fast leveling in Tortage can be found in the Tip of the Day in AoC forums.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 09:13:47 PM by photek »

"I recently went to a new doctor and noticed he was located in something called the Professional Building. I felt better right away"
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Reply #47 on: June 07, 2008, 04:36:16 AM

Anything that helps shift the notion away from WOW=MMO can only be a good thing.

Just been reading YouTube comments on an AoC video.

"what a friggin wow clone..."

"wow set the mold for mmo's true but i find this game much much more enjoyable"


Video gamers have no sense of history - whatever platform they started playing on was "The Beginning". A whole generation is currently being raised thinking that games started with the PS3.

Venkman
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Reply #48 on: June 07, 2008, 09:44:08 AM

If you had said "Wii", I might have believed you. PS3 is for everyone who was already in the industry... that began with PS2  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #49 on: June 07, 2008, 10:48:16 AM

AoC has under 600k subscribers at this point in time. It's the #1 selling game in most territories if you count the GTA4 360 and PS3 editions separately. There's no doubt it's a major success, but we could probably tone down the cromlicking a bit.

They have the momentum now; they just need to maintain it.
WindupAtheist
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Reply #50 on: June 07, 2008, 12:36:16 PM

cromlicking

Genius.  AoC fanboys are now cromlickers.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #51 on: June 07, 2008, 04:29:28 PM

Thank you, I hope it catches on. Nothing will ever top "vanboi" though.
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Reply #52 on: June 07, 2008, 10:59:52 PM

If you had said "Wii", I might have believed you. PS3 is for everyone who was already in the industry... that began with PS2  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

You're right - Wii would have been a better choice.

Fordel
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Reply #53 on: June 07, 2008, 11:14:41 PM

Of course the Wii is the system that will let you play a bunch of games from 'the beginning'.

Or at least a fairly large and significant beginning.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Simond
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Reply #54 on: June 08, 2008, 03:11:58 AM

They have the momentum now; they just need to maintain it.
From what I've heard, there's two significant solvable problems with AoC that they need to work on, a bunch of lesser ones, and one unsolvable one:
The two big ones:
1) PvP has no actual point. This is being worked on, but the devil is in the details. Hell, it took WoW three attempts to get a halfway working PvP system, DAoC wrecked theirs with a single expansion, and so on. It's not an easy thing to do, especially in a diku-type mmo.
2) Shared dungeons are beginning to turn into EQ-style camp checks on the busiest servers (poor itemisation + no TLC + grey cons don't attack + much slower respawn on named than trash mobs = Players 20 levels over the zone wandering it, one-shotting the named for loot, then wandering out again). I'm expecting TLC to be added within the next two or three big patches...either that, or a reitemisation of end-game loot that turns it into "Raid or die".

(The unsolvable one being, of course, the system requirements).

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Reply #55 on: June 08, 2008, 03:20:21 AM

The unsolvable "problem" is solved by "time."

Not unsolvable if you ask me. This is roughly the system requirements for EQ2, though it'll run (not well) on an EQ2 era machine. I really don't see this as too much of a problem. Especially once it's optimized (which right now, it is not, in any way, not for lower end folks at least). My computer simply muscles through it. Pure brute force there.

As for the other 2. PVP having a point will surely be fixed, though everyone competing will probably be 80 by the time it does, so whatever to that.

And that last one is pretty much easilly solved. Just instance some of that shit. Cistern - where it's REALLY a problem - is where it needs to be fixed. Everywhere public, sure, sometimes it's annoying, but it's not like there aren't a ton of other quests you can't go and do (for levels 1-60 that is). Again, easily fixed.

I think the biggest problems right now, that are VERY easily solved, are itemisation, crafting, and guild cities (particularly this one - being the only real money sink and being totally worthless).

I've done some math, and I'm gonna get some tier 2 armor made on monday by someone (I hope), all using Tussah silk for 3 slots, and gem that shit up, I think I can make totally grotesquely overpowered armor. At least 99% confident I can. Stuff that will easily take me to 70 if not 80.
Venkman
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Reply #56 on: June 08, 2008, 05:43:03 AM

Ultimately, the game is broken in the usual fun ways. FotM class chasing, out-of-whack item abilities, public spaces, abilities. All of this stuff requires players find ways to work around them. That gives a deeper sense of ownership than the usual bind-on-pickup item can.

It's also an emotional rollercoaster for people who haven't lived through it before. Eventually your T2 armor on your 80 PoM is going to yield shit in some way, either by the armor being nerfed, the class being nerf, the class being changed, or something else. But for now the overpoweredness is more poignant than any contrived well-balanced game could deliver. You (not you personally) know in your heart it's wrong and is going to change, but you're having fun right now. Later on, you'll either have moved on before the changes, or so invested in the one character you'll be pissed that it changes in ways much more so than a 1% stat adjustment on some mid-endgame gear could piss you off.

There's something to be said for that design approach. However, this isn't really the result of a concerted effort to create this emotional attachment. It's more a byproduct of making stuff up as one goes  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Ultimately that's what sucked me back in too.
Xanthippe
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Reply #57 on: June 08, 2008, 07:11:38 AM

Anyway:

Quote from: Schild
Join Bat Country today?

Does the apply for guild button not work or something?  Wtf do I have to do to get in the guild?

The apply for guild button does not work.  Go to the AoC subboard and then the Bat Country subboard and the roster - look for the people who can invite to guild when you're online, and send a tell over.
slog
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Reply #58 on: June 08, 2008, 10:22:30 AM

So what we have is a thread where F13 takes press releases from Marketing and declares AOC a huge success?

Welcome the fanboi zone.  Be sure to add some links to the Vault Network on the main page.

Friends don't let Friends vote for Boomers
Aez
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Reply #59 on: June 08, 2008, 11:08:20 AM

To me, it just demonstrates how much of a failure every releases since WoW have been.  I can't believe how bad the development studios and producers are in this market.  There's millions of gamers out there waiting to throw their money at a good game but they keep releasing thrash after thrash.

Imagine if the movie industry released one AAA movie every 4 years and all the rest were B movie. Even Conan is just a refreshing B movie, it'll take an other year before it's a finished AAA game.
     
apocrypha
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Reply #60 on: June 08, 2008, 11:13:24 AM

Imagine if the movie industry released one AAA movie every 4 years and all the rest were B movie.

Actually that's pretty much describes my opinions of the drivel that comes out of Hollywood these days.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Venkman
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Reply #61 on: June 08, 2008, 11:27:08 AM

So what we have is a thread where F13 takes press releases from Marketing and declares AOC a huge success?

Just more proof a bunch of veterans do not the market make.

Any word on the breakdown between US and EU territories?
Slayerik
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Reply #62 on: June 08, 2008, 01:20:02 PM

So what we have is a thread where F13 takes press releases from Marketing and declares AOC a huge success?

Welcome the fanboi zone.  Be sure to add some links to the Vault Network on the main page.

AoC is a success. That much was obvious when my brother-in-law couldn't find a retail box within a 100 mile radius of his house. We'll see if it will be a continued success.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
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Reply #63 on: June 08, 2008, 01:55:39 PM

AoC is a success. That much was obvious when my brother-in-law couldn't find a retail box within a 100 mile radius of his house. We'll see if it will be a continued success.
Again, AoC's marketing has been a success, the game will be a success if an appreciable portion of the boxes sold turn into subscriptions when the free play period expires. At this stage in the game people are mostly still buying based on hype and marketing. A million boxes is a triumph for Funcom's marketing dept but it's too early to declare victory until you have players paying to play.

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Tale
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Reply #64 on: June 08, 2008, 03:44:25 PM

So what we have is a thread where F13 takes press releases from Marketing and declares AOC a huge success?

Welcome the fanboi zone.  Be sure to add some links to the Vault Network on the main page.

AoC is a success. That much was obvious when my brother-in-law couldn't find a retail box within a 100 mile radius of his house. We'll see if it will be a continued success.

Busy general gaming forum on a broadband internet news site - not a gaming site: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-threads.cfm?f=8

Their threads get archived at about 80 pages and "part 2" gets made etc. AoC thread is up to part 5 already.
slog
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Reply #65 on: June 09, 2008, 05:45:57 AM

AoC is a success. That much was obvious when my brother-in-law couldn't find a retail box within a 100 mile radius of his house. We'll see if it will be a continued success.
Again, AoC's marketing has been a success, the game will be a success if an appreciable portion of the boxes sold turn into subscriptions when the free play period expires. At this stage in the game people are mostly still buying based on hype and marketing. A million boxes is a triumph for Funcom's marketing dept but it's too early to declare victory until you have players paying to play.

I'm glad someone understands what I'm talking about.

Friends don't let Friends vote for Boomers
Slayerik
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Reply #66 on: June 09, 2008, 07:20:55 AM

People around here didnt expect a million by sold by any stretch, at least if you had been following the threads around here you would see that.

Its a good start, not sure why all the haters around here consider it failure. Like AoC or hate it, signs point to success.

...

My guess is Warhammer doesn't sell as many boxes or retain as many subs.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
slog
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Reply #67 on: June 09, 2008, 07:30:29 AM


Its a good start, not sure why all the haters around here consider it failure. Like AoC or hate it, signs point to success.


So because some folks are saying "its too soon to tell" they are haters.  My Fanboi alert just went off.

Friends don't let Friends vote for Boomers
tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #68 on: June 09, 2008, 08:07:08 AM

SWG sold a ton of boxes, how'd that work out?

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Reply #69 on: June 09, 2008, 08:31:19 AM

People around here didnt expect a million by sold by any stretch, at least if you had been following the threads around here you would see that.

Its a good start, not sure why all the haters around here consider it failure. Like AoC or hate it, signs point to success.

...

My guess is Warhammer doesn't sell as many boxes or retain as many subs.

Who said it's a failure? I agree that signs point to success I'm just saying it's too soon to start the victory parade.

At this stage the people buying it aren't buying it because it's a good game, they're buying it because Funcom's marketing dept have worked their asses off and have created a huge amount of buzz about the game. In a month we'll see if the popular vote says the game is a success.

There are largely three types of MMO player. You have the early adopters (people like you guys) who follow games in development and decide based on research into feature sets, released info and your own personal metrics whether to play a game. Traditional marketing is mostly wasted on you because you see the people behind the curtains.
The second set are the ones who are receptive to marketing. They'll have a rough idea of what is happening in the MMO sphere but rely mostly on marketing and hype for their buying decisions. The last lot are the followers. They tend to pick up new games by osmosis - basically they play where their friends are. If the guild packs up and goes to a new game they'll go too but otherwise they will be quite happy trying to get their twenty-fifth alt to max level in their current game.

Funcom are pushing a million boxes at the second group and some of the first group. The third group will be what makes the game a success though and they'll only get those if the reports from the early adopters are all good. We'll find out if that's the case in a month or so.

By the way, on the day it was released, the WAR CE pre-order was the single biggest selling item on amazon.de. It's also sold out in a lot of territories despite the fact that the game is still under NDA and is some months away from release. Signs point to success but again, no 'we aer winnar' dances here until we have people converting their purchase into subs.

- And in stranger Iains, even Death may die -

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