Diablo III Wild Speculation and Rumor Mongering Abounds

[Malakili]

Quests are repeatable.  In fact, you redo dungeons/bosses more or less by redoing the quest associated with it.

Edit also: I dont really see the huge problem with hitting max level? If you like the game enough that you are really concerned about doing build X or Y it seems to me that you'll probably play enough to keep leveling up anyway.  It doesn't seem any different than any other RPG in this regard to me.

[Lantyssa]

Chicken-and-the-egg problem.  One of the higher level skills might be the one which makes you think playing this character is really, really, really fun.  You won't know it until you have the skill.  You have to last long enough to get all the skills to try them out.

[Malakili]

Chicken-and-the-egg problem.  One of the higher level skills might be the one which makes you think playing this character is really, really, really fun.  You won't know it until you have the skill.  You have to last long enough to get all the skills to try them out.

Well, you will get all of the base skills by the time you finish normal.   There will be a few passives, and of course the runes, that you keep getting as you level up.  But it seems to me that by the end of normal you should have a pretty good idea.

[Merusk]

Again: You can't hit max level until Hell Difficulty.  Some people have problems in Normal difficulty.  Can't get to Hell, sorry that content is Not for you.  The same bullshit design maxims we've spent 15 years bitching about in MMOs but are now a sacred cow because a game is called "Diablo" 

No, I don't think so. It's garbage, sorry.

[Malakili]

Again: You can't hit max level until Hell Difficulty.  Some people have problems in Normal difficulty.  Can't get to Hell, sorry that content is Not for you.  The same bullshit design maxims we've spent 15 years bitching about in MMOs but are now a sacred cow because a game is called "Diablo"  

No, I don't think so. It's garbage, sorry.

Its just shocking to me that someone might be simultaneously bad enough at the game that they literally can't reach max level AND care a great deal about the fact that they can't get the rune that makes their ice ray to poison damage, or whatever.

I mean, we are really talking about some fringe stuff here.  This isn't like not being able to see the big story reveal because you aren't in the top 1% of raiding guilds.  There is no new content in the higher difficulties from a story point of view.  We are literally talking about things like "add a 2 second stun to this skill" or  "Increase the AoE radius of this skill"  

If you are seriously up in arms about this, I really don't know what to tell you.  It's really minor shit you're getting upset about.  It's no different from literally any other RPG which has abilities tied to levels.

[kildorn]

I really can't find any fucks to give about the quest/mob xp thing. Oh no, I have to kill 3,000 fozzles BECAUSE IT'S FUN, not because the reward system is directly reinforcing it!

I.. I didn't buy a Diablo game to NOT get into fights with things.

[Lantyssa]

Its just shocking to me that someone might be simultaneously bad enough at the game that they literally can't reach max level AND care a great deal about the fact that they can't get the rune that makes their ice ray to poison damage, or whatever.

It's Diablo.  The mechanics are the game.  It's actually really, really important.

(And before you say loot, people are saying loot affects how you play... so again mechanics.)

[Draegan]

Shocker.  People getting frothy over shit that doesn't matter.

Again: You can't hit max level until Hell Difficulty.  Some people have problems in Normal difficulty.  Can't get to Hell, sorry that content is Not for you.  The same bullshit design maxims we've spent 15 years bitching about in MMOs but are now a sacred cow because a game is called "Diablo" 

No, I don't think so. It's garbage, sorry.

Can't you just repeat content over and over in Normal and get max level eventually?  And if people have problems in Normal with the game, then.. well Diablo isn't for them as a whole.  However I'd love for you to keep whining about dumb shit.  it amuses me.

[Yegolev]

[Malakili]

Ok.  I'm just going to paste these links here, because I have a feeling people are upset in theory about what they are missing out on, but haven't looked at the actual progression.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/progression
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/progression
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/progression
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/progression
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/progression

Is there anything here that comes after level 30 that you feel is really fundamental to the enjoyment of the game?  Really?

[Lantyssa]

I don't know.  I haven't reached 30.

[Merusk]

So amused at you all actually having a sacred cow.

Bad design is bad design. Never bring up shit being 'for raiders only' in MMO threads again and we won't have an issue.   

[Malakili]

So amused at you all actually having a sacred cow.

Bad design is bad design. Never bring up shit being 'for raiders only' in MMO threads again and we won't have an issue.   

The only thing that was ever "for raiders only" was some boss fights/story.  That doesn't apply here.

[Xanthippe]

Can't you just repeat content over and over in Normal and get max level eventually? 

Does anyone know the answer to this?

I don't think I ever played anything but Normal in D2; I never "finished" a character before becoming bored with it, or leaving the game long enough for my characters to become deleted. I also didn't blitz my way through the game, feeling compelled to break every urn and open every chest. I don't think I'll play D3 that way, lest I become bored before getting to 50 or 60 or whatever max level is.

[Malakili]

I suppose it is possible, but it would take a really long time, as the experience would be pretty crappy after a while.  Judging by the beta quest exp stays the same, but I think monster exp dips after you outlevel it by some amount.  I don't know why anyone would stick exclusively to normal isntead of going on to nightmare after a while though.  Sheer level will carry you through it, and judging by what they've said the game doesn't get legitimately difficult until Hell, and I'd imagine it would be a lot less painful to get to 60 in nightmare.

[Phred]

I really can't find any fucks to give about the quest/mob xp thing. Oh no, I have to kill 3,000 fozzles BECAUSE IT'S FUN, not because the reward system is directly reinforcing it!

I.. I didn't buy a Diablo game to NOT get into fights with things.

People seem to have missed the point in my first post. I'm sorry if I phrased it to poorly to comprehend. Currently, in beta, if you join a pickup game, everyone rushes for the ending of that map, literally ignoring anything that isn't on a straight line in front of them, including triggered spawns that happen after they've raced past. The current experience mechanic actually reinforces this behaviour. I and appearantly a tiny few people like to explore each map, not rush in a beeline for the ending. I do not think the current behaviour needs reinforcing by the MMO style exp distribution. As others mentioned, in ignorance of how things currently work, in D2 you could do a quest once per chapter and had to clear the map multiple times to be strong enough to advance on. The current D3 style actually discourages this.

[Dren]

Can't you just repeat content over and over in Normal and get max level eventually? 

Does anyone know the answer to this?

I don't think I ever played anything but Normal in D2; I never "finished" a character before becoming bored with it, or leaving the game long enough for my characters to become deleted. I also didn't blitz my way through the game, feeling compelled to break every urn and open every chest. I don't think I'll play D3 that way, lest I become bored before getting to 50 or 60 or whatever max level is.

I think the confusion here is that normally Diablo games are the same past normal, just harder at each level after that.  Same level design, same mobs only harder, same quests/npcs, etc.  You really never gain any new "content."  The lewt may have been somewhat different, but essentially it was just higher numbers in stats.  D2 did go a bit further with some uniiques, but I wouldn't consider that alone "new content."

I think many here (including myself) are assuming this will be true for D3 except now there won't even be unique items.  The only real purpose of hard, hell, nightmare, whatever levels is to keep people playing and amping up the difficulty to push their "skill" at the game.  If you don't have the "skill" in normal to succeed, then why would you care about the others.  There is nothing there for you.

[Xanthippe]

I really can't find any fucks to give about the quest/mob xp thing. Oh no, I have to kill 3,000 fozzles BECAUSE IT'S FUN, not because the reward system is directly reinforcing it!

I.. I didn't buy a Diablo game to NOT get into fights with things.

People seem to have missed the point in my first post. I'm sorry if I phrased it to poorly to comprehend. Currently, in beta, if you join a pickup game, everyone rushes for the ending of that map, literally ignoring anything that isn't on a straight line in front of them, including triggered spawns that happen after they've raced past. The current experience mechanic actually reinforces this behaviour. I and appearantly a tiny few people like to explore each map, not rush in a beeline for the ending. I do not think the current behaviour needs reinforcing by the MMO style exp distribution. As others mentioned, in ignorance of how things currently work, in D2 you could do a quest once per chapter and had to clear the map multiple times to be strong enough to advance on. The current D3 style actually discourages this.

As I recall D2 playing with other people, similar things happened. If I wanted to explore the map, I'd password my game so I could, or I'd ignore everybody else and go do what I wanted to do. What is different now?

[Phred]

Can't you just repeat content over and over in Normal and get max level eventually? 

Nope there is an experience cap. I checked the experience gained in the first chapter on my L12 barbarian and even wearing +exp items it is 0. Guessing it's probably a 10 Level cap but no concrete proof atm.

[Malakili]

Well, they do encourage clearing the entire level because the boss drops better loot if you've cleared out more of the elite mosters from the dungeon.  However, this mechanic might not be widely known because I don't think the game ever explicitly tells you, at least not that I remember.  Of course, this is assuming you're running it for loot (which you will be in the long run), and not really for the most efficient gain of exp.

[Dren]

I really can't find any fucks to give about the quest/mob xp thing. Oh no, I have to kill 3,000 fozzles BECAUSE IT'S FUN, not because the reward system is directly reinforcing it!

I.. I didn't buy a Diablo game to NOT get into fights with things.

People seem to have missed the point in my first post. I'm sorry if I phrased it to poorly to comprehend. Currently, in beta, if you join a pickup game, everyone rushes for the ending of that map, literally ignoring anything that isn't on a straight line in front of them, including triggered spawns that happen after they've raced past. The current experience mechanic actually reinforces this behaviour. I and appearantly a tiny few people like to explore each map, not rush in a beeline for the ending. I do not think the current behaviour needs reinforcing by the MMO style exp distribution. As others mentioned, in ignorance of how things currently work, in D2 you could do a quest once per chapter and had to clear the map multiple times to be strong enough to advance on. The current D3 style actually discourages this.

This is currently true in Beta, but I think it will be short lived.  Without gaining items and at least money, people will find themselves stuck at high level but without any means to compete.  The items is where their true power will be, not their level.  My Beta time was spent killing a lot of mobs in solo mode to build up money and items to upgarde my crafting so I had the best equipment.  Once gems are in place, killing mobs will be even more important.

[FieryBalrog]

Why would you ever expect a great experience in a pubbie game?

[Phred]

Ok.  I'm just going to paste these links here, because I have a feeling people are upset in theory about what they are missing out on, but haven't looked at the actual progression.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/progression
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/progression
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/progression
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/progression
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/progression

Is there anything here that comes after level 30 that you feel is really fundamental to the enjoyment of the game?  Really?

Ghost bomb be da bomb man.

[Phred]

Well, they do encourage clearing the entire level because the boss drops better loot if you've cleared out more of the elite mosters from the dungeon.

Way cool can you give a link to a dev saying this?

[Malakili]

This is the best I could find on short notice.  There is a better explanation somewhere:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4139866860?page=2#22

[Segoris]

Here, it's called the Nephalem Valor Buff

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4241234476#1

There's more to it in the link, but the basis is as follows:

Here’s how it currently works internally: Rare and Champion packs already have great loot on them. By killing a Rare or Champion pack, not only do you get their loot, but you’ll also receive a buff granting you increased magic find and gold find. However, if you change a skill, skill rune, passive, or leave the game, the buff disappears. As an extra reward, if you kill a boss while this buff is active, you’ll receive extra loot drops from that boss.

[Xanthippe]

Well, they do encourage clearing the entire level because the boss drops better loot if you've cleared out more of the elite mosters from the dungeon.  However, this mechanic might not be widely known because I don't think the game ever explicitly tells you, at least not that I remember.  Of course, this is assuming you're running it for loot (which you will be in the long run), and not really for the most efficient gain of exp.

Oh, that certainly changes my attitude about rushing then. I did not know this, thanks for enlightening me.

[Malakili]

Hmm, apparently the Nephalem Valor Buff only kicks in at level 60.  Now that IS stupid. 

[Draegan]

Yeah that's pretty lame.

[apocrypha]

Grouping with random people in *any* game is always asking for exposure to the dribbling, knuckle-dragging, selfish side of online gamers. Why would you expect it to be different in any way in Diablo 3?

You want to explore the whole map, smash every barrel, listen to NPCs dialogue? Group with friends.

And Merusk, your comparison between level gating for D3 difficulty levels with raid instances in WoW is spurious. If you're not a raider then you don't get to see the content. If you don't want to enter Nightmare difficulty in D3 then you are missing zero content. Just repetition of the same content.

[amiable]

So amused at you all actually having a sacred cow.

Bad design is bad design. Never bring up shit being 'for raiders only' in MMO threads again and we won't have an issue.   

Will I need to group with 7-39 other people to get all of the skills and abilities or see all the content in Diablo 3?

Yeah, it's like totally the same thing. 

[Merusk]

And Merusk, your comparison between level gating for D3 difficulty levels with raid instances in WoW is spurious. If you're not a raider then you don't get to see the content. If you don't want to enter Nightmare difficulty in D3 then you are missing zero content

Skills & runes != content. Got it. 

[caladein]

Calling those things "content" is stretching that term to the brink of uselessness.

And I love mechanics and playing with builds, and am rather unlikely to even finish Normal, much less get to level cap.

[Segoris]

And Merusk, your comparison between level gating for D3 difficulty levels with raid instances in WoW is spurious. If you're not a raider then you don't get to see the content. If you don't want to enter Nightmare difficulty in D3 then you are missing zero content

Skills & runes != content. Got it. 

Has it been said that you cannot progress past level 30 without increasing difficulty? I thought it was only implied that it was the most linear way to level through the campaign. If you're still getting xp for finishing quests, I'd think that means you can level higher without upping the difficulty but it would just take a bit longer as a trade off of being easier. If this is the case, and players can go over level 30 by repeating the Normal mode, then no content is missed evn when counting skills & runs as content.

Maybe I'm wrong but that is what it's always seemed like to me.

[Ragnoros]

Hmm, apparently the Nephalem Valor Buff only kicks in at level 60.  Now that IS stupid. 

Nah, if it were active before then it would discourage you from experimenting with skills as you leveled. They don't want to punish you for trying new shiny.