Darkfall "Released"

[Threash]

Are there any estimates at all on how many nimrods are actually playing this?

[AutomaticZen]

What did Darkfall "revolutionize"?

[ashrik]

There hasn't been any official release about subscriptions or sales since about 2 months ago when Tasos claimed that they were selling over 1000 (4 digits worth of) accounts every day.

The shop is open more and more often now, I just think that many players have left.

People are still hoping for some kind of magical EVE upswing in every patch, but I just don't see it coming.

[Surlyboi]

Fewer and Fewer? I can't remember any time when there was more than 1 - 2 pvp centric mmos in production. The average retard likes shiny objects, and some kind of beep to let him know that he did something right. Those people are no better than lab animals that are trained to do something for a reward. You don't really get that in pvp centric games.

Yeah, actually you do get that in PvP-centric games. Only the reward is "getting to pwn teh sheep". What's the difference exactly?

Oh wait, testing yourself against the "best of the best" and "getting your adrenaline pumping like nothing else".

Sure, sparky.

[tmp]

The average retard likes shiny objects, and some kind of beep to let him know that he did something right. Those people are no better than lab animals that are trained to do something for a reward. You don't really get that in pvp centric games.

Full loot and perma death of the other guy are just bigger pellets. And the associated electric shock when you push the wrong lever stings a bit more.

[Modern Angel]

Fewer and Fewer? I can't remember any time when there was more than 1 - 2 pvp centric mmos in production. The average retard likes shiny objects, and some kind of beep to let him know that he did something right. Those people are no better than lab animals that are trained to do something for a reward. You don't really get that in pvp centric games.

Keep yakking, fatbeards. I'm sure that if you wave your boner around just a little bit more about how e-badass you all are a big studio will swoop down to make a well financed PvP +++ game any second now. They're just waiting for a critical mass of pain in the ass to pass on to their CS and Community staffs to increase their turnover. Hey, maybe if you collectively make it a point of pride to exploit a game as hard as you can to your advantage instead of reporting issues you can cause turnover in QA, too! Wait, no... the PvP +++ crowd already does that.

Basically, I'm saying that those 1-2 games in development would probably be 7-10 if you weren't such raging manchildren obsessed with testing yourself against other greasy nerds instead of against a basketball goal.

[HaemishM]

Ahahahahaahhaahahahahahah

Put your drink down before watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw2-3IiOPA8 (via TTH)

NO, IT IS YOU WHO ARE THE BALLLICKERS!!!!!

Holy fucking Flying Spaghetti Monster, how is it someone so damaged is able to upload videos to YouTube?

[Jack9]

While in an Oculus group last night, I read the chat, and there it was. A party member promoting this great new skillbased MMO he was downloading called DarkFall. Everyone should try it. I didn't ask how or why he thought it was good (maybe he tried a demo, watched a friend, whatever). I didn't bother getting into it. I do have some anecdotal evidence that they are still getting new subs.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have a feeling that the only time they open the shop, is to sell the "slots" left by others quitting. Meaning, right now a major source of income for them, is "Digital sales" of the game.

Its kinda brilliant in a catch-22 kind of way. Limited release do to limited slots, creates a scene of exclusiveness, no trial with out paying full price with no refunds means a steady stream of digital sales, due to users quitting. No overhead on distribution, means 98% profit for each sale. Lock out most media outlets from accounts as well, thus no reviews, only word of mouth, if word of mouth is bad, claim they only played the game for a hour or didn't play at all.

Brilliant!

To tin foil hat?

[tazelbain]

Nothing you said requires a conspiracy.

[Mrbloodworth]

Nothing you said requires a conspiracy.

Dam it.

[Lantyssa]

That video represented true nerd rage.  I can't recall seeing anything more sad or pathetic.

[Arthur_Parker]

The video was a joke, how can anyone not see that?

Also LC was right about the "Fewer and Fewer" pvp games comment being bullshit.  Given the choice between the ding/grats/purplez camp or the noob/assrape/exploit camp, I'm all in favour of whichever game style results in more deaths.

[Falconeer]

I have a feeling that the only time they open the shop, is to sell the "slots" left by others quitting. Meaning, right now a major source of income for them, is "Digital sales" of the game.

Its kinda brilliant in a catch-22 kind of way. Limited release do to limited slots, creates a scene of exclusiveness, no trial with out paying full price with no refunds means a steady stream of digital sales, due to users quitting. No overhead on distribution, means 98% profit for each sale. Lock out most media outlets from accounts as well, thus no reviews, only word of mouth, if word of mouth is bad, claim they only played the game for a hour or didn't play at all.

Brilliant!

To tin foil hat?

You got it 100%, including the induced fake exclusiveness which generates the froth of "damn I can't get in why oh why I wanna this must be so cool!". That is exactly what is happening, I explained it elsewhere a few weeks ago. And that's why they are making money with Darkfall. Unbelievable but real. And yes, brilliant in an business kind of way.

[Mrbloodworth]

The video was a joke, how can anyone not see that?

Proof?

[Cadaverine]

The mind recoils in horror at the possibility that that is a legitimate video. 

While my time in CS, and on the interwebs, has certainly lowered my opinion of the general populace to all new lows, there are certain nadirs of human behavior which I choose not to accept, so as to keep what feeble faith I have in humankind intact.

[Arthur_Parker]

The video was a joke, how can anyone not see that?

Proof?

"My review 9000 out of 100" was a clue.

Voice over guy is Celiah Ailey aka ZtyX, he's a comedy genius (I'm not saying all the comedy is intentional)

Interests
Company Leadership, Alternative Thinking, Creating Win-Win situations, Business Pioneer, Achievement

source

[ashrik]

Him and Dread OG do the same thing with their videos.

[Modern Angel]

The video was a joke, how can anyone not see that?

Also LC was right about the "Fewer and Fewer" pvp games comment being bullshit.  Given the choice between the ding/grats/purplez camp or the noob/assrape/exploit camp, I'm all in favour of whichever game style results in more deaths.

It has nothing to do with your preference.

Look, I have 50mil dollars. I am going to open a design studio to make a MMO. I have two choices:

a) I can make a Diku with maybe some more involved crafting than WoW and get about 200k subs for a couple years.

b) I can make a PvP +++ sandbox game where the market is more or less empty. I get about 200k subs for a couple years there, too.

Except one is a relatively docile group of people and the other will exploit my game as much as they can, drive my GMs and Community to quit and bolt once they scorch the earth.

Now, seriously, I don't care about your preferences or even my preferences. But given that I can make the same amount of money why would I choose the one guaranteed to be retarded? Why in god's name would I ever in a million years want to head up Darkfall or Shadowbane when I could head up EQ2?

[pxib]

Why in god's name would I ever in a million years want to head up Darkfall or Shadowbane when I could head up EQ2?

Because you're one of the folks who's been waiting for that sort of game, and the easiest way to exploit is to control the code.

[Arthur_Parker]

Look, I have 50mil dollars. I am going to open a design studio to make a MMO. I have two choices:

a) I can make a Diku with maybe some more involved crafting than WoW and get about 200k subs for a couple years.

b) I can make a PvP +++ sandbox game where the market is more or less empty. I get about 200k subs for a couple years there, too.

I don't see why you would be limiting yourself to two choices. 

I personally think it's crazy to solely target hardcore pvp players for a game, as you need to create all the art work and client technology anyway, so the extra work in creating a PVE type ruleset (that's likely to be more popular even with terrible pve) is minor.

I think it will ultimately end up with more focus on different server rulesets, giving players an informed choice of the amount of interaction they want. 

But this conversation has been had many times, it's interesting you say it's not about "preferences" then finish that you would rather head up EQ2 rather than DF or SB.

Can you please everyone?  I don't know, (purples/BOP/% drops) cripple pvp looting, zones designed purely for pve don't consider pvp resource/area control, character levels hurt pvp.  Designing a good alternative to WoW that features popular PVE raid type gameplay seems to be impossible for anyone at the moment, so asking them to do it while being careful not to cripple an entirely different play style seems crazy.

As for the communities, I don't think DF players are that different from WoW players, people are people.  So Darkfall failed, nobody is surprised and the hardcore 10% will move onto the next big thing.

[IainC]

But this conversation has been had many times, it's interesting you say it's not about "preferences" then finish that you would rather head up EQ2 rather than DF or SB.

I took that to mean that it wasn't about your game preferences, i.e. the kind of game you'd like to play but about the kind of game you'd like to be running.

As for the communities, I don't think DF players are that different from WoW players, people are people.  So Darkfall failed, nobody is surprised and the hardcore 10% will move onto the next big thing.

I disagree here. There's certainly an overlap between part of the WoW playerbase and the DF one. Likewise there are certainly a lot of objectionable WoW players who aren't in both sets. However WoW doesn't encourage and foster the kind of behaviour that DF does and it doesn't expressly seek to target those who like nothing more than destroying someone's ability to play. Even if they are the same people, the behaviours are likely to be different in each game because WoW has far fewer ways to reward you for being an ass than DF does.

[Modern Angel]

I was painting with extremely broad strokes just as you are with your dichotomy of purplez vs corpse looting. Of course there are other things you could do but a run of the mill millionaire investor isn't going to invest in those other things. He's going to do one of those two in some broad fashion.

And yes, I meant preference to play not what to run.

[Ingmar]

At this point I think the 'hardcore 10%' is probably more like the 'hardcore .1%' in this context. It was once that big a chunk of the market, maybe, but I really don't think it is post-WoW.

[DLRiley]

The video was a joke, how can anyone not see that?

Also LC was right about the "Fewer and Fewer" pvp games comment being bullshit.  Given the choice between the ding/grats/purplez camp or the noob/assrape/exploit camp, I'm all in favour of whichever game style results in more deaths.

It has nothing to do with your preference.

Look, I have 50mil dollars. I am going to open a design studio to make a MMO. I have two choices:

a) I can make a Diku with maybe some more involved crafting than WoW and get about 200k subs for a couple years.

b) I can make a PvP +++ sandbox game where the market is more or less empty. I get about 200k subs for a couple months.

I fixed it for you. Though 50mil for 200k subs is sad, the DIKU WOW/EQ2 is ultimately more profitable for a longer period of time then the sandbox PVP.

[ashrik]

We've seen the diku clones rack up 200+ subscriptions time and time again. Even the uninspired ones tend to do decently.

For the PVP/sandbox? Hmmm

[schild]

Look, I have 50mil dollars. I am going to open a design studio to make a MMO. I have two choices:

Option C is what I would do.

Which is make 10+ <$5M MMOGs that are RMT based with a free download. None of which are Diku. Except maybe one. Called "Tread Mill." It's about the Scooby Doo gang.

[Sheepherder]

The average retard likes shiny objects, and some kind of beep to let him know that he did something right. Those people are no better than lab animals that are trained to do something for a reward. You don't really get that in pvp centric games.

Double Kill
Mega Kill
Ultra Kill
MONSTER KILL

[Modern Angel]

augh

I'm saying that if everything is equal fuck those mouthbreathers I'm going with the comparatively docile PvE crowd that won't shit on my game.

Things not being equal, well, different story. Wait, same story. Just more emphatic.

[Arthur_Parker]

At this point I think the 'hardcore 10%' is probably more like the 'hardcore .1%' in this context. It was once that big a chunk of the market, maybe, but I really don't think it is post-WoW.

There's no evidence for that, it doesn't even make sense logically, initial sales of WAR and Conan were very good, so players are looking for something different.  EvE is steadily increasing in subscriptions, 10% was the figure somebody else gave, it's like trying to plan a new game based on what percentage of WoW players experience the high level game, I'm not sure it's relevant.  Make the best game/s you can, but appeal to as wide a market as you can with the resources you have.

I'm saying that if everything is equal fuck those mouthbreathers I'm going with the comparatively docile PvE crowd that won't shit on my game.

You are judging the players in WOW based on the intentional barriers Blizzard put in place to stop people annoying each other.  Do you think it would be a good idea to allow inter realm communication in WoW?  You don't get looted and trash talked in WoW because you can't be looted and trash talked, not because everyone thinks that would be mean.  I don't need to mention exploiting do I?

[Surlyboi]

Actually, the demos are different.

My hatred for WoW is well known, but those limitations in it are there for a reason.

Sure, you're gonna get asshats no matter what, it's the interbutts and people are people. There's that 10% that revels in being a fucktard in any situation. Modern Angel's point (and I think it's a good one) is that making a game that lets anybody do anything, unfettered is tantamount to hanging a sign that says, "hey, you 10% fucktards, come here and get your nimrod on because we're not gonna do a thing to limit your stupidity.

If you build it, the nimrods will come.

[Arthur_Parker]

So people are people, that's what I said earlier.  It looks like a circular argument to me, don't design a game that includes a hardcore pvp ruleset because the people who would be attracted to it, like that type of gameplay.  It's only 10% (or whatever) right?  Going back to the two choices, make a game like WoW or make a game like SB/DF?  How many clones of those games are we going to watch smack face first into the pavement before somebody catches on?

[Surlyboi]

You and Modern Angel basically agree then, make a game for the people that aren't going to azzrape each other into oblivion.

[Arthur_Parker]

It looks like a circular argument to me, don't design a game that includes a hardcore pvp ruleset because the people who would be attracted to it, like that type of gameplay.  It's only 10% (or whatever) right? 

I'm not agreeing with the above, I just wondered if I was correctly stating the position.

[Surlyboi]

No, don't design a game that caters primarily to that demo. They'll bite you in the ass every time.

You could design a game that has elements that those 10% would find attractive, but don't make those elements the raison d'être of the game or you'll end up with a population that eats itself rather quickly.