Darkfall "Released"

[Malakili]

That looked like ass.

Actually I disagree.  The concept of being able to just get on a boat and sail around as I please in an MMO is pretty fantastic.  Then again, I like a lot of what Darkfall does, in CONCEPT.  Of course, I wouldn't touch the actual game with a 10 foot pole. 

[Nebu]

Actually I disagree.  The concept of being able to just get on a boat and sail around as I please in an MMO is pretty fantastic. 

You should play DAoC then.  You can sail in boats and pvp to your heart's content. 

[Fordel]

You can even sail the boat INTO pvp!

[UnSub]

(always go Capoeira. Most people need to look it up  )

Just no. Capoeira creates guys who look great, but it's more a dance and requires a lot of room to work. Also I've got no idea about their knife defence - or even if the style has one.

Krav Maga (you'd have to say Miltary or Special Ops version - the Internet Tough Guy should know a civilian version exists) isn't a bad option, you can always say you train MMA (mixed martial arts) or, for a true ITG response, say you used to work as a bouncer in a bar and kicked the ass of

If I was going for an obscure-ish fighting style, I'd choose Kali (better known stick fighting) or Penchak Silat (which I did have the opportunity to learn at one time, but passed in favour of more convenient Japanese jujitsu classes).

[Draegan]

That's a badass fight seen.

[Lantyssa]

If I was going for an obscure-ish fighting style, I'd choose Kali (better known stick fighting) or Penchak Silat (which I did have the opportunity to learn at one time, but passed in favour of more convenient Japanese jujitsu classes).

A good college friend of mine is a Silat instructor.  That is a brutal style.

[Venkman]

Silat is pretty interesting. From what I remember it was no-holds-barred face-on-face grappling. If you want in-your-face badass, you could go straight for Kempo. And Unsub's point about Capoeira is spot on, but then, that could be said for any of the flowery-looking sport Arts too (Taekwondo among them, or at least, how so many people seem to use it).

And we've now transcended into the worst level of internet tough guy epeen waving: bragging about the obscure Martial Arts 

[Ghambit]

I used to take Capoeira and it's useless unless you have the flexibility of Jean Claude Van Damme.  You waste tons of money learning techniques you cant physically achieve for a long long time (kinda like TKD).  In the club and on the beach Capoeria is the most useful though, because you can win just about any dance-fight (it's built-in breakdancing)... and chics dig it      "baanaanaa waay, baanaanaa way bannaanaa"

I prefer classical Jujitsu (the kind that's not alllowed in UFC), JKD, and chinese boxing like Hsing-I or Wing Chun.

"Taimak Fit" rules all though   

[Nebu]

So... did this vaporware release yet or did they delay it again?

[DraconianOne]

(Taekwondo among them, or at least, how so many people seem to use it).

What?

[raydeen]

I"m a black belt in Koyaanisqatsi. 

[UnSub]

(Taekwondo among them, or at least, how so many people seem to use it).

What?

Sports TKD is a long way from the martial arts form, but sports TKD is the style that has spread most widely, assisted by the South Korean government.

One issue is that in sports TKD hitting the back is a negative point, to it's a valid tactic to keep flipping around so that an opponent might accidentally strike your back during a competition. Not so good for a real fight.

On Darkfall: to follow on from my previous point, I think them limiting launch numbers is the best thing they can do. If they get 10 000 happy PvPers and slowly drip feed in new ones, they'll have a viable market for a while (especially covering those who burn out / find out that their e-peen isn't as big and hard as they thought) as others line up to be part of the ... well, fun.

However, from what I've seen, the biggest complaint is that there is nothing to do but fight. Without things to fight over, I don't know how long players / guilds are going to remain interested in DF.

[Draegan]

Go make a martial arts thread.  It would be more interesting contained within itself.  I come here for Darkfall fail stories.

[Delmania]

However, from what I've seen, the biggest complaint is that there is nothing to do but fight. Without things to fight over, I don't know how long players / guilds are going to remain interested in DF.

It's because you're not hardcore enough. 

[UnSub]

However, from what I've seen, the biggest complaint is that there is nothing to do but fight. Without things to fight over, I don't know how long players / guilds are going to remain interested in DF.

It's because you're not hardcore enough. 

Am too! Face the wrath of my stare!

[ashrik]

So... did this vaporware release yet or did they delay it again?

Well the NDA is up, looks like they're going for broke.

[Vinadil]

25th still looks like the go date.  At this point nobody knows who all has been able to make accounts/buy subscriptions.  But, I see them releasing about 10-15k accounts at launch and then stepping it up.  Their forums are maintaining a steady 2,500-3,000 people... which is nuts.

As to what there is to fight over, not sure what there ever is besides cities/items/resources.  Cities will have both "buff" resources and actual resources that help in crafting goods.  They are also in proximity to mobs that drop resources needed for high-level gear.

[gryeyes]

So you can only purchase this game by secret ballot? I sense interesting times ahead.

[patience]

However, from what I've seen, the biggest complaint is that there is nothing to do but fight. Without things to fight over, I don't know how long players / guilds are going to remain interested in DF.

It's because you're not hardcore enough. 

Am too! Face the wrath of my stare!

And here I thought I would never see anything top the average drag queen in   

The internet continues to prove me wrong...

[Mrbloodworth]

The Conquest system just got patched in. This can't possibly go wrong with such extensive testing!

Conquest


The rules for conquest have been finalized.

Here is the real deal straight from the horse's mouth:

Definitions

All Cities and Hamlets have CityPoints associated with them.
This is calculated by the potential of the City or Hamlet; e.g. a City with a potential Wonder will have a high CityPoint score while a small Hamlet will have a small CityPoint score.

A City or Hamlet is either owned by a Clan or it is Neutral.
All Cities and Hamlets start out as Neutral.

A Clan can be in only one Conquest Challenge at a time.

A Clan owned city is conquered when the Clan Stone or Clan Hamlet is destroyed.

You get CityPoints by destroying Clan Stones.

Claiming a Neutral City

In order to claim a neutral city you need to:

   1. Be in a Clan
   2. Have the rank of General or higher
   3. Be within the city/hamlet limits (You will get a message that you are crossing the city boundary)
   4. Not be in a Conquest Challenge with another clan
   5. Have a Clan Shard in your backpack (These can be bought from various vendors)
   6. Double click the Clan Shard in your back pack
   7. Congratulations your Clan is now the new owner



Note: A Clan can claim only 1 Neutral City every 24 hours.

Conquering a Clan owned City/Hamlet when your Clan also owns Cities/Hamlets

In order to start a challenge against a Clan owned City/Hamlet, these preconditions has to hold true:

   1. You must be in a Clan
   2. You must formally declare WAR against the city owners (Or they must have done so against you)
   3. You must have the rank of General or higher
   4. You must be within the city/hamlets limits
   5. You must have a Clan Shard in your backpack
   6. The Clan you are about to challenge must not be in another Conquest Challenge
   7. Your Clan must not be in a Conquest Challenge
   8. Double click the Clan Shard in your back pack
   9. Congratulations you have now initiated a Conquest Challenge



A City vs City conquest consist of 2 Stages:

Stage1:

Stage 1 lasts 4 hours.

The City that was issued a challenge against is invulnerable for these 4 hours.


All cities and hamlets belonging to the attackers will be vulnerable in this period.
Anyone (including Mercenary clans, allies etc.) can help the defenders by attacking the attacker's Clan Cities/Hamlet Stones.
If a Clan City/Hamlet Stone of one of the attackers Cities is destroyed during this time, ownership is transferred to the defenders.

A Conquest Challenge can end during this period if:

   1. The total sum of CityPoints lost by the attackers exceed the CityPoints of the Defender's Challenged City. Defenders WIN.
   2. The attackers have lost their last City/Hamlet. Defenders WIN.
   3. A formal Peace Treaty between the Attacker and the Defender is negotiated. It's a DRAW.


If none of these conditions have been met during the 4 hour period then Stage 2 of the Conquest will commence.

Stage2:

Stage 2 lasts 2 hours.

During this stage the challenged City/Hamlet will become vulnerable.

All the Attacker's Cities/Hamlets will remain vulnerable.

A Conquest Challenge will end during this period if:

   1. The total sum of CityPoints lost by the attackers exceed the CityPoints of the Defender's Challenged City. Defenders WIN.
   2. The attackers have lost their last City/Hamlet. Defenders WIN.
   3. A formal Peace Treaty between the Attacker and the Defender is negotiated. It's a DRAW.
   4. The attackers destroy the Defender's City Clan Stone. Attackers WIN.


If, after 2 hours, there is no outcome the Conquest Challenge will result in a timeout. This means it's a draw.

Conquering a Clan owned City/Hamlet when your Clan does NOT own any Cities/Hamlets

When you do NOT own any Clan Cities/Hamlets you have to put up a “wager” in Gold for the Clan who owns the city. The exact amount has to do with the number of CityPoints of the City/Hamlet you are about to challenge.
You will get the “wager” back only if you WIN the Conquest Challenge.
If you do NOT win the challenge this amount of Gold will be transferred to the Clan that owns the City when the Challenge is over. This also happens in a DRAW.

In order to initiate a challenge against a Clan owned City/Hamlet while your Clan does NOT own any Cities/Hamlets, these preconditions have to hold true:

   1. You have to be in a Clan
   2. WAR must be formally declared between the two parties.
   3. You must hold the rank of General or higher
   4. You must be within the city/hamlets limits
   5. You must have a Clan Shard in your backpack
   6. The Clan you are about to challenge must not be involved in another Conquest Challenge
   7. Your Clan must not be in a Conquest Challenge
   8. Your Clan must have enough Gold in the Clan Vault to Challenge the City/Hamlet
   9. Double click the Clan Shard in your back pack
  10. Congratulations you have now initiated a Conquest Challenge
  11. The person who initiated the Challenge is now the Challenger



The Challenger becomes a target for the Defending Clan.
His location will show up on all the Defender's members world and mini maps.
The Challenger is incapable to teleport, and if he logs out for whatever reason the Challenge is lost.

A No City vs City Conquest Challenge consists of 2 stages:

Stage 1

Stage 1 lasts 4 hours.

The Challenged City is invulnerable in these 4 hours.

A Conquest Challenge can end during this period if:

   1. The Defenders KILL the Challenger. Defenders WIN.
   2. A formal Peace Treaty between the Attacker and the Defender is negotiated. This means a draw.


If none of these conditions have been met during the 4 hour period then Stage 2 of the Conquest will commence.

Stage2:

Stage 2 lasts for 2 hours.

During this stage the challenged City/Hamlet becomes vulnerable.

A Conquest Challenge will end during this period if:

   1. The Defenders KILL the Challenger. Defenders WIN.
   2. A formal Peace Treaty between the Attacker and the Defender is negotiated. This means a draw.
   3. The attackers destroy the Clan Stone of the Defender's City. Attackers WIN.


If, after 2 hours, there is no outcome the Conquest Challenge will result in a timeout. This means a draw.

NOTE: The Gold deposited by the Attackers will always go to the defenders unless the Attackers win.


Destroying a Clan Stone

A Clan Stone can be destroyed using this equipment:

    * Siege Hammers (2 Handed Weapon)
    * Different types of Battle Spikes (thrown weapons)
    * Dynamically deployable Cannons
    * Warhulk Weapons
    * Ship cannons



When a City has changed ownership:

    * If a bank is present, it's automatically destroyed, and the new owner will have to haul new building modules across the land to build it. These modules are heavy and if you overload, you can not use runestones or other means of teleportation.
    * All members of the previous Clan currently bound to the City will be booted out
    * The record of this Challenge will live forever.





Other information regarding cities

    * You can only destroy one building per day. The only things exempt from this rule are:
         1. Walls
         2. Palisades
         3. Decorations
         4. Clan City Cannons
    * You can disable buildings at all times.
    * Disabling a building that has a local bonus (Gives attribute bonuses to all Clan Members when they are within the city limits) associated with it, will cause the Clan Members to lose the bonuses
    * Disabling a Wonder will cause the global bonus to be removed
    * Disabling Houses and Barracks will decrease the number of people able to bind at the city.
    * All buildings can be repaired using repair shards and a repair hammer
    * Different Cities have different abilities:
    * There are 9 unique Wonders located in 9 different cities. These give Global bonuses to all members of the Clan that own it.
    * Warhulks can be crafted only in certain cities.
    * Coastal cities and hamlets may have harbors you can build Ships at.
    * Mines producing a variety of resources can be found in various cities.
    * Every city is laid out and strategically positioned for warfare .

Link

[IainC]

So two clans operating in concert to keep each other perma-challenged can never lose their cities or hamlets?

Or am I reading that wrong?

[Vinadil]

You are reading that wrong.  In fact, just the opposite, their holdings would ALWAYS be available for capture.

What they failed to write was "Have one guildie drop guild, form a new guild, pay the money... and you can siege anyone without fear of your actual holdings being at risk."

So, you will quite a few 1-man guilds declaring sieges I am pretty sure.

[K9]

Seems like there is plenty of potential for abuse.

Also, this system is far too carebear, 4 hours of invulnerability! pah.

[IainC]

You are reading that wrong.  In fact, just the opposite, their holdings would ALWAYS be available for capture.

No, because you can't challenge a clan that is already in a challenge. Thus if two clans work together to keep each other challenged (but don't actually fight) then no-one else can come along and try to take their cities.

[Venkman]

Seems like there is plenty of potential for abuse.

Also, this system is far too carebear, 4 hours of invulnerability! pah.

Not when that four hours begins at midnight local

Next patch: the four hours to begin the moment the Defenders "accept" the challenge.

Everything old is new again.

[Vanifae]

You are reading that wrong.  In fact, just the opposite, their holdings would ALWAYS be available for capture.

No, because you can't challenge a clan that is already in a challenge. Thus if two clans work together to keep each other challenged (but don't actually fight) then no-one else can come along and try to take their cities.

That is how I read it as well.

[gryeyes]

You are reading that wrong.  In fact, just the opposite, their holdings would ALWAYS be available for capture.

No, because you can't challenge a clan that is already in a challenge. Thus if two clans work together to keep each other challenged (but don't actually fight) then no-one else can come along and try to take their cities.

Id imagine the cost of a challenge is prohibitive enough to do it every 6 hours?

[EWSpider]

It says ALL of the challenger's cities and hamlets are vulnerable to EVERYONE during the first stage.

[K9]

Unless you can roll the 4-hr invulnerability window?

On the level of exploits people have pulled in games far more rigorously designed than this, this sort of stuff seems fascile.

@gryeyes: What is the value in holding a city? From what I read, high-end cities offer huge potential for resources monopolisation. If you're sitting on a huge empire, these costs could easily be worth it.

[Vanifae]

It says ALL of the challenger's cities and hamlets are vulnerable to EVERYONE during the first stage.

What happens if you only have one though?  Nothing?

[EWSpider]

It says ALL of the challenger's cities and hamlets are vulnerable to EVERYONE during the first stage.

What happens if you only have one though?  Nothing?

Not sure what you're asking.  If you have one city then that one city is vulnerable to everyone in the game during stage 1.

[kildorn]

That system seems amazingly stupid.

You challenge. All your shit is vulnerable for 4 hours.

Phase 2: all their shit is vulnerable for 2 hours.

After that, it ends.

Six hours of combat window pretty much seems absolutely stupid?

[Delmania]

For a game

You are reading that wrong.  In fact, just the opposite, their holdings would ALWAYS be available for capture.

What they failed to write was "Have one guildie drop guild, form a new guild, pay the money... and you can siege anyone without fear of your actual holdings being at risk."

So, you will quite a few 1-man guilds declaring sieges I am pretty sure.

Color me confused by this.  The one man guild would keep initiating a challenge, thus, the guild could not be challenged again.  However, in that case the guild can not siege anyone, so you'd end up with a situation in which guilds would have a perma challenge against them, and no guild with a city could initiate a siege against another city.

As I look at these rules, and I reflect on how all the fanbois and fangrrls are telling us how DFO creates a truly hardcore open PvP setting, I just wonder who came up with these rules.  There's a potential for no risk and the fact that cities themselves are just static things, these rules truly are carebear.

[Delmania]

Heck, Warhammer's city siege and defense fits more with the style of the game overall than this does for DFO.

[Vanifae]

It says ALL of the challenger's cities and hamlets are vulnerable to EVERYONE during the first stage.

What happens if you only have one though?  Nothing?

Not sure what you're asking.  If you have one city then that one city is vulnerable to everyone in the game during stage 1.

Perhaps so.

it seems wonderfully convoluted for a game that espouses itself as a hardcore PvP game.