Darkfall "Released"

[schild]

Human Clam Cannon would be more fun.

[Lantyssa]

Verily we strike forth to do battle with yon Harbour.  Though a myriad of men may drown to its watery embrace there shall be much splashage this day.  Prepare for the fury of mine beach ball foul liquid!

(To be followed by the roasting of a plump boar and the swilling of much drink.)

[Vinadil]

I think I am catching the sarcasm even without the green... but just in case, all buildings are destroyable, so yea you CAN PvE the harbour if you wish :).  It is not a bad idea if you want to disable your enemies ship-building capabilities.

[Sheepherder]

Why does this game look like my first attempt at using The Elder Scrolls III Construction Set?

[Delmania]

This looks like the old Might and Magic and Ultima 3D games from the mid to late 90s. 

Reminds me more of classic DAoC with some minor texture improvements.

[Delmania]

I think I am catching the sarcasm even without the green... but just in case, all buildings are destroyable, so yea you CAN PvE the harbour if you wish :).  It is not a bad idea if you want to disable your enemies ship-building capabilities.

IIRC, only building may be destroyed per day, but you can disable any number of them. 

[Mrbloodworth]

Why does this game look like my first attempt at using The Elder Scrolls III Construction Set?

Did your castle walls not match up too?

[Vinadil]

IIRC, only building may be destroyed per day, but you can disable any number of them. 

True, but disabled still works for stopping their construction.  And, as far as I know the only building that has been destroyed outside of a siege is the bank.  Not sure if it is a special exception of if everyone just goes for it first.

[Feverdream]

This whole thing looks like a real mess -- systemswise, I mean.  The DAOC-ish graphics don't bother me much, though they are sort of amusingly retro.

And yet I am so desperate for PvP that in some dark and pitiful corner of my gamer's heart, I STILL want to play it.

I won't cave in.  I know better.  But dear gods, will someone please release a decent PvP game?

At least Wintergrasp is fun.  Every two hours.

[tazelbain]

It's crazy how these features that are raison d’entre for the game are just being added.  What has the DF team been doing of the last decade?

[HaemishM]

Grecian Hookers and blow?

[Lantyssa]

You got the blow part right.  Going to be lots of that.

[Signe]

You got the blow part right.  Going to be lots of that.

And suck, too.  Blow and suck.

[Sheepherder]

Why does this game look like my first attempt at using The Elder Scrolls III Construction Set?

Did your castle walls not match up too?

Actually, yeah.  I had no clue how to use grid snap and so there would be tons of little >1 point gaps or overlap wherever the joints in walls and shit met.  It looked nasty, see-through, and flickery whenever you panned the camera in-game.  Eventually I got my shit together and started manually editing the (X,Y,Z) coords to make it look solid, then I got smart and discovered grid snap, trashed a shitton of work, and fucking reproduced the entire thing in a half hour.  Long story short: good construction tools are the crux of good design.

[Delmania]

It's crazy how these features that are raison d’entre for the game are just being added.  What has the DF team been doing of the last decade?

Wasn't it Tasos who said "making MMOs is hard"?   I think Advetine has some decent ideas, and given that this is their first MMO, I can cut them a little slack.  I can appreciate people who want to learn to their mistakes the hard hard way. 

[EWSpider]

You got the blow part right.  Going to be lots of that.

And suck, too.  Blow and suck.

What's going on?
She's gone from suck to blow!

[K9]

Well written DFO review

Did this game go live today or what?

[Arthur_Parker]

Well written DFO review

Did this game go live today or what?

I'm not reading all that, so I cut to the last paragaph.

At this point, I think it's fair to say that Darkfall is essentially Oblivion Online - minus the plot, gorgeous graphics, unique skills, engaging quests, fun stealth system, involved combat, Patrick Stewart voiceovers, and everything else that made it a hit.

[Vinadil]

Well written DFO review

Did this game go live today or what?

Live today sometime.  And, that review was actually quite good... though it seems written by an unguilded solo player.  I think it is pretty clear that Darkfall will attract mostly guilded players... which will suck for its long-term growth, but the fact is the game is pretty harsh on solo people.

It also seems like he did not get very far in melee skills/PvP combat... as most of the things he talked about just don't mesh with my late-beta combat experiences in PvP.  PvE is about dead-on... there is nothing special about the AI, and it has a tendency to be very annoying.  But, "slow" is not a word I would use for the PvP combat, especially once people start getting mounts and more melee/spell abilities.  Maybe it is because I am not a FPS person (I suck at them), but if movement were any faster I would never hit anyone.  As it is I at least hit people half the time that they hit me.

My review would basically say... if you are not already in a guild that enjoys open PvP and the joy of logistics and large-scale tactics, then Darkfall is most likely not the game for you as it stands now.  The solo experience will be VERY unsatisfying after the first 3-4 hours as there are NO soloable mobs outside the noobie area and grouping is ... well, dangerous at best.  This whole thing often falls into the, "It is not perfect... but there is no other game that lets us play a game of world-conquest like this right now" category.

Plus I think he downplayed the world... as I said earlier I could easily spend a month or two just exploring this place.  I basically lived in the dwarf area for the month I was in beta, and on the last night I was out exploring (noticeably more powerful then I had been 3 weeks ago) and found numerous hidden caves and even an underground dungeon I had never seen before.  This world is huge, and incredibly well done.  But, you won't see much of it solo unless you just run past all the mobs and such.

I am not sure what they could do to improve harvesting... I cannot remember a game where I "enjoyed" harvesting.  Vanguard would probably be the closest, simply because harvesting in groups actually Increased your yield.  It was still "point at rock, click mouse, wait", but when you shared the experience everyone get more out of it.  That is about all I would add to their current system, though... well that and a "continuous harvest" mode, similar to EVE.

[Rake]

Also think it was a pretty spot on review from a solo point of view.

The only time I thought harvesting was fun at all, and not very fun at that, was in SWG where you plonked a machine down on the ground and rode off to do something more fun, then returning later on to loot the machine. The way you had to find quality spawns was the only real challenge about it, but harvesting is never gonna be fun if it involves clicking and waiting.

[Delmania]

Vindail, almost nay game can be fun if you play it with people.  Hell, I might play WAR when 1.2 goes lives simply for the fact that I do have some friends who play and there was some decent changes in the patch.  But that doesn't make this person's observations any less invalid.  He's talking about mechanics and design, not social interaction.

[Vinadil]

Vindail, almost nay game can be fun if you play it with people.  Hell, I might play WAR when 1.2 goes lives simply for the fact that I do have some friends who play and there was some decent changes in the patch.  But that doesn't make this person's observations any less invalid.  He's talking about mechanics and design, not social interaction.

True, but he misses most of the "good" mechanics because of the way he plays the game.

WAR is the same.  Some of the "fun" is missed completely if you play solo... especially in the first 3 weeks of the game.  You miss most PQs, you miss dungeons, you probably miss most of the RVR.  Not until the Late Game when everyone is 40 can you hope to actually see some of the group stuff if you are an unguilded, solo player.  Sure it is true of most games... which is why I play with a guild and not solo.

His review is correct, as far as it goes.  But it is filtered through a) short time in game and b) solo, unguilded play.  That, and he offers no games that "do it better".  After a few months off of MMO gaming with your guild it is not too big a deal to buy a new game and give it 2-3 months to see how it works out.  I would say that is the attitude of most of the big guilds moving to darkfall... its better than WAR for what we want, and it is worth a few months/few dollars to see how it pans out.

[Delmania]

Since you have experienced DFO as a guild player, what types of things do you think he missed or misrepresented in the review?

[Nebu]

True, but he misses most of the "good" mechanics because of the way he plays the game.

I love the cries of "you're not playing the game right" as an apology for missing/poor mechanics.  This thread is already shaping up.

DAoC was every bit as fun solo as it was grouped.  It was just a different type of fun. 

[Vinadil]

True, but he misses most of the "good" mechanics because of the way he plays the game.

I love the cries of "you're not playing the game right" as an apology for missing/poor mechanics.  This thread is already shaping up.

DAoC was every bit as fun solo as it was grouped.  It was just a different type of fun. 

No need to get snippy... I am not saying he played the game wrong, I am saying that he played it in a way that is no fun.  If that is the way he enjoys playing games, then Darkfall is a poor choice of games because it was designed poorly for his playstyle.  I don't really think you need to try to "blame" either side for doing it wrong.  We can make comments on the choices, but the fact I did not pay anything to make this game... I got to test it, and I feel it is going to be worth the money I spend playing it.  When it is no longer worth that money, I will stop playing... simple.

@ Del - It is like Shadowbane 2.0 I suppose.  My role in gaming has always been the guy behind the scenes.  Even in the old Nintendo days I was the guy figuring out the puzzles while my friend actually pulled off the moves in Metroid.  Things like in-game politics, economies, logistics and large-scale tactics are "fun" to me.  Even now the last few days have been spent making political offers with other guilds, making logistics plans for moving people/supplies to cities in order to "claim" pieces of land, and organizing guild members to know the script before opening day.

Also, one of my highest priorities is for my guild to play the game together.  That right there is a feature that will bring a game to the top of my list, at least for a time.  If nobody in the guild enjoys it, well then being able to play a horrible game together won't last long.  But, I hate games that separate guild members... and every other game on the market does this.  Whether it is limiting raid sizes, putting on lock-outs for dungeons, or gear/level stupidity... I am amazed by the number of ways developers find to separate a guild from actually playing a game together.  In Darkfall I fully expect some of our guild to wait 3-6 months before they join (just to see if the game survives that long heh).  When they finally join... they will be able to join us wherever we are, whatever we are doing... day one.  It is like EVE in that respect, but perhaps even more friendly to the new person.

This is the first time in a LONG time that I have had a game experience where I actually feel something akin to fear/adrenaline when playing.  I remember many times in beta the feeling of moving over the next ridge, knowing the enemy is just beyond... but not knowing how many, how strong, etc.  My last day in beta I was doing some random exploring/preparing and got jumped by another player while low health... even though I knew the game was getting wiped soon it was still more of a rush than my WAR PvP experience.

In the end I think it comes down to a simple fact... this game was designed for a small niche, say 100,000 people.  By default that means that most people who play it and read about it won't like it.  That is not their fault, but neither is it the developers fault.  If the developers succeeded in creating a game that their niche enjoys, and if it can financially support itself... well good job for them.

[Mrbloodworth]

Allright - I think that Darkfall seems to have a fair drawing distance. It does seem better than in Lotro and Wow at least.

Texures, Clip Range, and Antialiasing are all Low, Low, and Off during the debug beta.

Good lord the fans of this game are delusional. (quote from another site in reference to the short draw distance in Darkfall)

[K9]

If we consider this game as a rival to EVE, where does it have depth that EVE doesn't? Superficially the combat and resource acquisition elements of EVE are basic and dull, the depth is in the economy, crafting and multiple well-developed ways people can use space. At the moment DFO seems like EVE, minus ratting, exploring, trading, drafting and mission-running (and the rest....), with worse graphics and a more undesirable community. This doesn't really seem like something I would want to be a part of.

[Mrbloodworth]

If we consider this game as a rival to EVE,

WHAT? Eve, even in its original bust ass state, was 200X the game darkfall is as far as scope, and competence.

[kildorn]

If we consider this game as a rival to EVE, where does it have depth that EVE doesn't? Superficially the combat and resource acquisition elements of EVE are basic and dull, the depth is in the economy, crafting and multiple well-developed ways people can use space. At the moment DFO seems like EVE, minus ratting, exploring, trading, drafting and mission-running (and the rest....), with worse graphics and a more undesirable community. This doesn't really seem like something I would want to be a part of.

Ambulation! D:

[Vinadil]

If we consider this game as a rival to EVE,

WHAT? Eve, even in its original bust ass state, was 200X the game darkfall is as far as scope, and competence.

Eh... I suppose you could say the same things about Jumpgate when compared to EVE.  I don't think the people switching over will be doing so for scope and competence.  The fact that you get to fly your little space ship and press a button to shoot your weapon will probably be higher on the list.

EVE is the closest thing like this on the market, in my mind, but this is high fantasy, first person, and more interactive.  I don't think people will leave EVE to come here... but those of us who played EVE and felt "meh" or just never got into a decent Corp to experience the "fun"... well might be some cross over I guess.

Not sure what all the beef is about the graphics... I won't claim they are genre-defining... but never in my beta time did I ever think, "Man I can't stand these graphics and they really detract from my enjoyment of the game."  On the contrary I found myself interested in the detailed design of the world and the fact that anywhere I can SEE I can GO.  The newness of being able to just... go somewhere I wanted was nice, you know instead of being herded along a little path with all the other sheep like most MMO worlds are.  Even then, I am not saying that "linear game design is bad" just so people don't feel the need to defend it, I just enjoy something different now and then.

[tmp]

Hmm, Johnny Bravo MMO. They could be onto something there...

though i guess Second Life went there first.

[Delmania]

Vin, the issue I have with your response is that you seem to enjoy the metagaming elements of DFO more than how than actual gameplay.  The social interaction of playing with guildmates, bartering with other guilds for control of regions, setting up alliance and what not are benefits of the design of DFO, but the reviewer was talknig more about the gameplay itself.  I said that having a group of friends to play with on a regular basis can actually add an element of fun to a game that will help you overlook the glaring issues with the game, but it doesn't make those issues dissappear.  I could easily play WAR right now since I know some people that I more or less enjoy gaming with who are playing it, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that somehow makes the design flaws with the game right.

[Mrbloodworth]

Posted a few minutes ago in the beta section by Claus:

 

Hi everyone,

I mentioned in my last post that we are working on a system that will give clans more control over when they are challenged.

This system involves craftable Protection Shards, that can make your holding immune to challenges for 2-12 hours. The weakest will protect you for 2 hours, while the strongest will protect you for 12 hours.

If you use a 12 hour Protection Shard, you can not protect your town again until 12+12 hours have passed. This essentially means that your city/hamlet may be protected against challenges for up to 12 hours every 24 hours.

Please note that this does NOT protect your town from being raided normally, so your enemies can still put pressure on you by disabling buildings and walls. It only protects you from challenges.

We hope to get this system live in a few weeks. Once it goes live, we will reduce the challenge phase of sieges from the current 4 hours, back to 2 hours as it was in early beta.

None of this was beta tested....... Was anything beta tested? Because as i understand it, none of the high level skills were tested, none of the mid-high level crafting was tested, city raids were not tested, naval battles were not tested, The supposed high settings of the graphics options were not tested, Large scale battles were not tested, the servers have never been stress tested, theaccount system was never tested,   NOTHING ABOUT THE CORE OF THIS GAME WAS TESTED.

[IainC]

So for those paying attention has this been released yet? I just went to the official site which hasn't been updated since Jan 25th.

[Mrbloodworth]

So for those paying attention has this been released yet? I just went to the official site which hasn't been updated since Jan 25th.

Evening, EU time.