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Mrbloodworth
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on: March 28, 2008, 10:35:15 AM

Quote
PvP - Player versus Player
Posted: - 28.03.2008

Age of Conan sports a number of choices for the PvP player, everything from casual, instant fun minigames to massive siege battles to an entire PvP server with friends to make and foes to kill.


Your PvP options include:

PvP Minigames
Age of Conan’s PvP minigames are intended as “pick up and play” fun, something easy to get into solo or with a group of friends, a way to hop right into the action when you want something fast and furious, more akin to an FPS match than traditional MMO combat.

Age of Conan’s PvP minigames include:

    *
      Capture the Skull
      You will join one of two teams with the goal of capturing the opposing side’s skull as many times as possible. They will, of course, not take kindly to this and will try to stop you.
    *
      Team Annihilation
      You will join one of two teams, with the goal being to kill as many players on the opposing team as you possibly can. Of course, they’ll be trying to do the same to you.


Massive PvP/Siege PvP
Head out to the Border Kingdom with your guild, or hire yourself out for pay, and wage epic battles for control of player-owned battlekeeps. There are a limited number of these battlekeeps on each server, meaning combat will be fast and furious, and the benefits of owning one mean guilds will fight tooth and nail to keep theirs (or take away someone else’s!)

Further Reading:

Player versus Player Siege Warfare

PvP Servers
For those who just can’t get enough PvP, Age of Conan features PvP-flagged servers, with rules allowing widespread PvP, and PvP-RP servers, which not only allow for lots and lots of PvP, but also feature a robust ruleset encouraging roleplaying and staying in-character.


Advancement

PvP also has its own system of leveling and advancement, with dedicated PvP levels, feats, and so forth, for those who do well or spend a lot of time PvPing. This system will complement the regular advancement system, allowing you to further tune your character to your own tastes.


Drunken Brawling

You will proceed to one of the designated taverns, get drunk out of your mind, and take wild, drunken swings at friends and foes alike.

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Falconeer
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Reply #1 on: March 28, 2008, 11:21:53 AM

No mention to player-build (not just player-owned) fortresses? I smell a fish!

Triforcer
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Reply #2 on: March 28, 2008, 11:32:19 AM

Are there any details out there on the specifics of the "pvp" server?  Full FFA, level-locked, other nations only, etc.?  Full FFA may actually prompt me to buy this game.

EDIT:  The FFA debate going on over at the official forums is pure gold.  Did ya'll know that FFA works and is stable long-term because of player policing?  I never felt old in the MMO world until today, but I guess you can't expect circa 2008 forum warriors to remember the lessons of things that happened when they were still in the obstetrics ward. 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2008, 11:56:17 AM by Triforcer »

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K9
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Reply #3 on: March 28, 2008, 11:57:04 AM

The PvP servers are straight up GvG with open combat anywhere outside towns as I recall. I think partly they feel there's a need for some safe areas, and also I think collision detection is deisabled in towns (to prevent clogging) and so that would have quite a major impact on PvP. I might be wrong though.

I'm glad Drunken Brawling is back in, last I heard that was something that wasn't going to make release.

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Triforcer
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Reply #4 on: March 28, 2008, 11:59:48 AM

The PvP servers are straight up GvG with open combat anywhere outside towns as I recall. I think partly they feel there's a need for some safe areas, and also I think collision detection is deisabled in towns (to prevent clogging) and so that would have quite a major impact on PvP. I might be wrong though.

I'm glad Drunken Brawling is back in, last I heard that was something that wasn't going to make release.

Wow.  THis will be a colossal flaming disaster with nobody on the that server 6 months after release, but I am so there.  That six months will be a helluva ride  awesome, for real

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Lantyssa
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Reply #5 on: March 28, 2008, 12:57:16 PM

Guild versus Guild or group versus group?

What if one doesn't belong to a guild, or it's a small one?  I want an RP server with stringint rules, but I'm a little wary of open PvP.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
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Reply #6 on: March 28, 2008, 01:10:30 PM

Sounds like "we have DAoC's RVR and FFA PVP rulesets + WoW Battlegrounds".

I like the sound of Warhammers PVP much better.
tmp
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Reply #7 on: March 28, 2008, 01:57:55 PM

No mention to player-build (not just player-owned) fortresses? I smell a fish!
It's mentioned in detail in "further reading" section linked from that page. The battlekeeps are built by the players:
Quote
Should you happen to come upon an available site for a battlekeep, or should you manage to bring down another guild's battlekeep, your guild will have to start constructing its own. This involves gathering resources, erecting buildings and making sure everything is sufficiently protected.

Each building within your battlekeep will grant a bonus that will affect some or all members of your guild. Buildings include the blacksmith, the temple, the alchemist workshop, the university and more. While the temple may benefit healing classes within your guild, the university might provide a bonus for all spell casting classes and your guild will need to prioritize what to build.

«Constructing a battlekeep might take anything from a few hours to several days,» says Game Designer Jason Stone. «You will need to carefully choose what buildings you want as you can’t necessarily build everything, and you must also focus on building the walls required to keep your enemies out and your buildings safely protected. You can build several lines of defenses.»

( http://community.ageofconan.com/wsp/conan/frontend.cgi?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=online&utm_campaign=Clan_of_Conan&utm_content=Issue_10&func=publish.show&table=CONTENT&func_id=1923 )
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Reply #8 on: March 28, 2008, 04:50:07 PM

Guild versus Guild or group versus group?

What if one doesn't belong to a guild, or it's a small one?  I want an RP server with stringint rules, but I'm a little wary of open PvP.

eh, both I guess. There's probably a better term, but I'll coin it loosely to describe anything where you get to pick who you fight alongside, rather than picking a side at the start and then getting lumped with whatever mouthbreathing cretins also chose lol-alliance (or whatever) many months or years ago. Frankly I'm all for that. I'm rather hoping that AOC can offer some interesting world PvP; although the PVP-am-mai-lyfe-m8yte crew who want permadeath, full loot and mexican midgets that facestab opposing players who die IRL are probably going to be dissapointed. I must admit, after a little time in EVE I'm really swinging towards more sandboxy, full-loot and death type games (although not permadeath, because frankly I think that's pointless hardcore that I don't need); however the game needs to be designed around those aspects, not have them added as an afterthought. As such I'll see how AoC as it is when it comes.

As far as RP goes, from what I read on the forums there are some people who are seriously into the REH lore stuff and I think the RP and RP-PVP servers could potentially be a lot stronger than in other games. That said, I anticipate endless "REH didn't/wouldn't have included X/Y/Belfs" talk over the course of the game, with FC lacking Blizzard or GW's luxury to reinvent their own lore at will.

edit: the Battlekeeps will be Guild-oriented PvP content of course, something that WoW sorely lacks. Although I remember reading that they were scaling different types of ownable structure for different sized guilds: whole keeps for the biggest guilds, and then lone towers/outposts for smaller guilds. I don't know how well this will work out. Based on tower wars in AO it could work well. Towers were a lot of fun there for small groups, although when they got zerged and the server hamster had a heart attack they sucked balls.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2008, 04:52:08 PM by K9 »

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Numtini
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Reply #9 on: March 29, 2008, 05:31:55 AM

Are they doing straight RP or just PVP RP? I have only seen mention of the latter but I haven't really been following all that close.

In any case, it won't work. You need to charge a buck extra or require a separate client or something that will prevent yahoos from randomly joining RP servers or people just join cause there friend is there or cause it's the first alphabetically or because they have a right.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Lantyssa
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Reply #10 on: March 29, 2008, 06:37:59 AM

And whatever they do, don't make an RP server show up on the recommended list when making a character just because its load is light.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
ahoythematey
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Reply #11 on: March 29, 2008, 02:34:04 PM

I've been deliberately avoiding info on this game so that when I try it I won't be burdened with the preconceived notions SB had before release.  I just hope the FFA pvp server is fun, and ultimately that will rely on the game's combat.  Has anybody played it?
Triforcer
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Reply #12 on: March 30, 2008, 09:28:24 AM

Its very easy to make an RP server.  Just disable all chat except /tell and a 20 foot radius /say.  Otherwise, its doomed to flaming disaster.

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Reply #13 on: March 30, 2008, 10:24:56 AM

Just like it's easy to make a PvP server...

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Koyasha
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Reply #14 on: March 30, 2008, 12:18:22 PM

Its very easy to make an RP server.  Just disable all chat except /tell and a 20 foot radius /say.  Otherwise, its doomed to flaming disaster.
Either that or require all people playing on the server to pass a test asking the most intricate questions about the lore and history of the world.  Note: This can be difficult if your lore and history changes as often as most people change their shoes.  *Cough.* Blizzard. *Cough.*

Still.  Take us back to the days of early UO where in order to speak to someone you had to be in their physical presence, and that's going to weed out pretty much everyone who isn't very into maintaining the realism of the setting these days.

RP servers in WoW aren't that bad, though.  There's a surprising amount of 'light' RP that I saw when I played on one for a time.  PvPRP servers, on the other hand, suffer from most RPers being afraid to PvP (this is something I don't and probably never will understand, since being able to bash in the face of an enemy when I feel like it is kinda an important part of roleplaying to me - hell, being able to bash in anyone's face whenever I feel like it and have to deal with the consequences is important, but one step at a time) and there being too many PvPRP servers to concentrate the population of roleplayers that do PvP.

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Triforcer
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Reply #15 on: March 30, 2008, 01:16:58 PM

Ooh, I didn't even think of this since it hasn't been an issue in all recent MMOS:

If the FFA server has the normal communication tools, how do you deal with the after-kill trash talking?  Punish the guy who was ganked and whispers "you f@@@ing f@@@@t" and pretty soon you have thousands of banned subs and an empty server.  Don't punish it and you have a constant crossfire of abuse that ends up with some guy driving 5 states to pk irl. 

What's Funcom to do?

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Reply #16 on: March 30, 2008, 03:08:26 PM

Garble all speech between players that have engaged eachother in combat. Permanently.   Grin

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Venkman
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Reply #17 on: March 30, 2008, 03:09:40 PM

Nah. Funcom's entire messaging about this game absolves them of having to address trash-talking in my opinion. They've probably got their CSR already training on the proper cadence for "learn2play" and "cry more noob".
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Reply #18 on: March 30, 2008, 03:24:03 PM

The logical solution would be to give players an infinite account-based /ignore list, and tell them to use it if they feel the need to complain.  People whining about trash talking is one of the most stupid and annoying things in these games, and if a person is so sensitive they feel like one or two messages before they /ignore the person isn't enough, then they shouldn't be on the internet in the first place.

Trash-talking is stupid and childish, but being so sensitive about it that you have to whine to the company instead of just ignoring the person that bothers you is even more so.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
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Triforcer
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Reply #19 on: March 30, 2008, 03:30:43 PM

But the problem I'm  thinking about isn't about the pker trash-talking the gankee.  It goes something like this.

Person A repeatedly ganks Person B over an entire evening.  Then:

B /tells A: "@@@@ you you @@@@ing f@@@@t @@@@!!!!!"

A: "Reported."

That is the nightmare CS scenario, and giving the victim an ignore list doesn't solve it.  And if you ban the guy getting killed all night, you very quickly ban 80% of the server. 

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Venkman
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Reply #20 on: March 30, 2008, 03:53:58 PM

See above. The whole marketing campaign for this game allows some flexibility for Funcom. The spoken rulesets of the server takes that even further. "You only play on this server if you're hardcore" covers it all. This is not a game for MMO-newbies.

None of this makes it "better" or "worse". It's only to illustrate that they're setting this game up differently from "we play the game for you" PvE dikus in which a cross look gets a CSR investigation.
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Reply #21 on: March 30, 2008, 04:19:10 PM

I'm pretty tired of seeing people think that trashtalking is unacceptable in a competitive online game.  Nobody forces you to play on a PvP game, and if you want to then fucking accept that somebody is going to hand you your ass and that they could very well let you know all about it.  If somebody acts like a dick, don't stress out over it: kill that motherfucker right back.  I realize that there's always going to be crybabies asking for the GM to intervene, but when you are playing a goddamn Conan game where lamentations of the women are the norm, maybe the CSR's should tell the people wasting their time on useless requests to ess-tee-eff-yoo.
K9
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Reply #22 on: March 30, 2008, 05:53:50 PM

Ooh, I didn't even think of this since it hasn't been an issue in all recent MMOS:

If the FFA server has the normal communication tools, how do you deal with the after-kill trash talking?  Punish the guy who was ganked and whispers "you f@@@ing f@@@@t" and pretty soon you have thousands of banned subs and an empty server.  Don't punish it and you have a constant crossfire of abuse that ends up with some guy driving 5 states to pk irl. 

What's Funcom to do?

In AO you could talk to anyone, it really was never a big problem there. If anything it made the game better as it turned out there were a lot of awesome people on the other side of the game. AoC, as a GvG game, I'd expect everyone to be able to chat to everyone else, and frankly I'm all for that. I really didn't like Blizzard's heavy handed "thou shalt not communicate with the opposite faction" because I couldn't see the justification. Even the RP justification was weak, since I'd frequently encounter NPCs from the other side who I could chat to, and most player characters are considered bi or tri-lingual, but then this is Blizzard lore we're talking aboot. Overall I'd be amazed if most players would report someone who whines after getting ganked, certainly not enough to see thousands of banned subs. Most people I know screenshot and store funny gank messages; and there's always /ignore for genuinely annoying cases. I heard that AoC is stealing AO's chatsystem (although this may be wrong) and that could be a good thing, because AO had a very good chat interface, one of the better ones I've used. The only thing it needed to be perfect was timestamps and the ability to change channel colours in-game (like wow). So should be good.... I think.

That said, account-wide ignore is a feature more games should have, since in all cases you want to ignore the player not the character.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2008, 05:59:53 PM by K9 »

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Dtrain
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Reply #23 on: March 30, 2008, 09:09:40 PM

I couldn't see the justification.

You are a mature adult. Enough people playing these games are either a) teenagers who act their age, b) adults who do not, or c) shithouse rat crazy insane so that it is actually a brilliant idea to just shut it off and spare CS hours for something other than being a babysitter.

And to those people, I have only this to say: This is why we can't have nice things.
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Reply #24 on: March 30, 2008, 09:18:09 PM

I agree, it's a waste of money diverting resources of the CS on such 'immature acts' when the user can simply /ignore.
/reported bluff followed by ignore would probably be sufficient to call the goon's aggression off, no need to bring the GMs into this.

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Reply #25 on: March 30, 2008, 09:53:48 PM

EDIT:  The FFA debate going on over at the official forums is pure gold.  Did ya'll know that FFA works and is stable long-term because of player policing?  I never felt old in the MMO world until today, but I guess you can't expect circa 2008 forum warriors to remember the lessons of things that happened when they were still in the obstetrics ward. 

On another MMO forum I've been following, there has been a concerted call for FFA PvP with full looting and a single character server (only one server for the entire game), which will:

1) Allow the players to police themselves and solve all in-game social problems

2) Allow meaningful PvP

3) Build a meaningful in-game economy

4) Make players care about their characters and their character choices

5) Stop the evils of instancing that break an otherwise immersive world.

The thing is, I'm sure some of these people played UO (or at least they claim to). If that's the case, they obviously weren't paying attention.

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Reply #26 on: March 30, 2008, 10:55:10 PM

IMO full loot is a little harsh. if they're willing to go that far, hold public executions imo; beaten to a pulp, you'd still survive with stat gimps that takes time to recover, but if your head is on a chopping block it's one way to ticket to Deletesville. Now THAT'S policing. Strap em on a chair and inject poizen too, have their screen fade to black while the crowd cheers wearing their neon coloured robes and brandishing flaming torches  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? Let em burn on a stake too! Extra crispy! STOP DA EVIL! BURN DA PK! Then have a city-wide auction on his ashes. Mwahah. Here lies Dreadlord Azzrape.



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WindupAtheist
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Reply #27 on: March 31, 2008, 01:31:41 AM

meh

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Reply #28 on: March 31, 2008, 06:48:57 AM

But the problem I'm  thinking about isn't about the pker trash-talking the gankee.  It goes something like this.

Person A repeatedly ganks Person B over an entire evening.  Then:

B /tells A: "@@@@ you you @@@@ing f@@@@t @@@@!!!!!"

A: "Reported."

That is the nightmare CS scenario, and giving the victim an ignore list doesn't solve it.  And if you ban the guy getting killed all night, you very quickly ban 80% of the server. 
First, make sure there is clearly stated policy that profanity or any other kind of 'offensive language' is not something the CS staff will get involved with: that's what the ignore list is there for.  As long as ignore is account-wide and has no limit on the number of people ignored, there's no reason why it can't be the only tool given to handle all chat-related disputes between players.

Then, ban nobody.  Warn the person doing the reporting not to waste CS time with this shit.  At least, that would be my solution.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
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Slayerik
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Reply #29 on: March 31, 2008, 07:15:21 AM

The only game I played that was a one account per server was Neocron (Pluto server). It worked well enough, obviously some people got additional accounts but for the most part it was pretty cool. Problem is everyone is used to having their crafting alts and shit.

Everyone knows full looting wouldn't work in Diku's (or hybrid Dikus in this case). Games like UO, Neocron, and Eve it works because you dont have to spend 40 hours getting one piece of shiny (though in most of these games you can spend your ass off to get an uber item .. but you really wanna risk it?).

I personally would love to see a server that had FFA PvP, looting, and 1 character per account. Will it happen? Of course not.

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Reply #30 on: March 31, 2008, 08:38:33 AM

I don't care about full looting.  What I do want is decent PvP, good siege systems and decent guild mechanics.  I don't associate looting with any of that stuff.  I prefer to keep the loot I've gathered, but it's not too big of a deal, as long as it's not seriously difficult to replace it.  I hate hate hate the idea of one character per account and I might have to kick Slayerik's ass now.

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Reply #31 on: March 31, 2008, 08:50:42 AM

But the problem I'm  thinking about isn't about the pker trash-talking the gankee.  It goes something like this.

Person A repeatedly ganks Person B over an entire evening.  Then:

B /tells A: "@@@@ you you @@@@ing f@@@@t @@@@!!!!!"

A: "Reported."

That is the nightmare CS scenario, and giving the victim an ignore list doesn't solve it.  And if you ban the guy getting killed all night, you very quickly ban 80% of the server. 
First, make sure there is clearly stated policy that profanity or any other kind of 'offensive language' is not something the CS staff will get involved with: that's what the ignore list is there for.  As long as ignore is account-wide and has no limit on the number of people ignored, there's no reason why it can't be the only tool given to handle all chat-related disputes between players.

Then, ban nobody.  Warn the person doing the reporting not to waste CS time with this shit.  At least, that would be my solution.

I expect this is actually what their approach will be.  The game is getting an "M" rating (or was it "AO"?)  so they have an out to allowing cursing and other such things. "T" and "PG" games do not and so must ban/ enforce some sort of 'channel quality' for their public channels.


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K9
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Reply #32 on: March 31, 2008, 09:21:11 AM

The only game I played that was a one account per server was Neocron (Pluto server). It worked well enough, obviously some people got additional accounts but for the most part it was pretty cool.

EVE is effectively one character per server really.

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Reply #33 on: March 31, 2008, 02:25:52 PM

The only game I played that was a one account per server was Neocron (Pluto server). It worked well enough, obviously some people got additional accounts but for the most part it was pretty cool.

EVE is effectively one character per server really.


Hmmm....my 2nd account has a noob scout alt...a 2 mil hauler alt, and a 5 mil raven ratter/loot whore/salvager alt.

Sure, the rest of the way I'm going to put my SPs into the 5 mil character but I still have 2 other VERY useful characters on that acct :)

I don't care about full looting.  What I do want is decent PvP, good siege systems and decent guild mechanics.  I don't associate looting with any of that stuff.  I prefer to keep the loot I've gathered, but it's not too big of a deal, as long as it's not seriously difficult to replace it.  I hate hate hate the idea of one character per account and I might have to kick Slayerik's ass now.

After you did it, I'd know it was you....and you could nevar hide!!!!!  Since we would be on a one character per server game, I could then hunt you down and repeatedly beg you for my stuff back.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
Numtini
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Reply #34 on: March 31, 2008, 02:57:26 PM

Generally one character per account or one character per server breeds multiple accounts per person in my experience.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
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