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Author Topic: Secret Invasion!  (Read 14008 times)
TenaciousMike
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on: February 18, 2008, 11:03:09 PM

Okay, once again Marvel is tossing in another big Crossover event.  I kinda like the fact they do this, because it keeps the universe fresh and interesting.  Others hate it.  Either way, this event seems to be really fun and full of guesswork.  They claim that nonthing present will be retcon, and that it's all been meticulously planned.  But I digress:

It's time to play WHO IS THE SKRULL?  Let's hear your thoughts!  Other than KNOWN agents - Black Bolt, that Pennsylvania Initiative kid, and the Captain Marvel cult.  And other KNOWN Skrulls - She-Hulk's sidekick, Hulkling, the Runaways' "not quite a" Super Skrull, or Kl'rt (the real Super Skrull who is off in Kree Space during Annihilation: Conquest).

LUKE CAGE - As stated in the "N"NA thread, I think it possible that he may be a skrull.  He seems to be overplaying his role.  Now that Jessica is threatening to leave him, he refuses to budge, even still.  And the fact that the baby has SOMETHING funky.  I think the baby is probably half-skrull, but on his FATHER's side.  Which would take most comicdom by surprise, as they expect Jessica Jones to be a Skrull.

CAPTAIN MARVEL (?) - Still up in the air about this.  The latest issue of his comic leads us to believe that he's going to be a key player in Secret Invasion, with this cult of Skrulls.  I don't think HE is a Skrull, but the title is suddenly very Skrully.

MS. MARVEL (?) - Cliffhanger of the latest issue has Tony Stark declaring her as a Skrull, and the next cover is her having a Skrull face.  I seriously doubt that Carol Danvers is a Skrull in any way, shape, or form.  But I think that Wonder Man could very well be.  His increasing romantic interest in her and the fact that he... well... does nothing other than hang out.  He's also in Mighty Avengers as a bit of a background character.

X-MEN - Okay, this is a tough one.  With the recent happenings in the X titles, it makes it very hard to think who could be a Skrull, even though a Colossus/Cyclops/Wolverine combo Skrull was in Illuminati #5.  If anybody, I'd have to say maybe Wolverine is, but probably the New Avengers Wolverine.  While the X-Men Logan is busy with mutant stuff, and hunting down Mystique, the Skrull takes his place in the Avengers.  Two different social circles.

SPIDER-MAN - Okay, same with the Wolverine case.  The solo title and OMD/BND stuff really seems to preclude him from any New Avenger activities.  His costume was also Black in NA for much longer than it was in OMD.  Could be scheduling/shipping issues, but it seems like a possibility.  Especially with the new retcon in OMD/BND, it leads me to think that maybe Peter Parker is spending time being Spider-Man, and a Skrull is doing the same thing, just elsewhere.  Also, Spider-Man was VERY interested in saving Baby half-Skrull.  Which very much in-character for Peter, he seems to be kind of a jerk while carrying it off.

___

Tenacious Mike
HaemishM
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Reply #1 on: February 19, 2008, 10:19:55 AM

This Secret Invasion shit is going to suck monkey balls. Have an inconvenient decision? It will be retconned as "HE WUZ A SKRULLZZZ!!!" and they will think they are clever doing it. It isn't clever. It's a great big lazy fuckoff writer crutch. The Skrulls have lacked menace for years, because well, they've been completely incompetent. The best thing to happen to them was to lose their homeworld way back when. The worst part about the whole "Whose a Skrull" thing is that they will be able to retcon shit they didn't like with the wave of a wand, and it will probably all suck worse than the Spider-Man OMD shit.

I can almost guarantee the people they choose to be Skrulls will be the ones you least expect it, and they will be the ones that won't make any sense as Skrulls anyway. I mean, Luke Cage? Him being a Skrull would be like saying the Skrulls plan was to take over Harlem.

Simond
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Reply #2 on: February 19, 2008, 10:30:58 AM

The best skrull-related thing ever in the history of all things is still the Skrull Kill Krew.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Velorath
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Reply #3 on: February 19, 2008, 03:45:01 PM

SPIDER-MAN - Okay, same with the Wolverine case.  The solo title and OMD/BND stuff really seems to preclude him from any New Avenger activities.  His costume was also Black in NA for much longer than it was in OMD.  Could be scheduling/shipping issues, but it seems like a possibility.  Especially with the new retcon in OMD/BND, it leads me to think that maybe Peter Parker is spending time being Spider-Man, and a Skrull is doing the same thing, just elsewhere.  Also, Spider-Man was VERY interested in saving Baby half-Skrull.  Which very much in-character for Peter, he seems to be kind of a jerk while carrying it off.

Trying to get any sort dramatic payoff out of a reveal like this would be next to impossible considering the pre and post-OMD continuity clusterfuck you'd have to deal with for it to make any sort of sense.
HaemishM
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Reply #4 on: February 19, 2008, 03:47:09 PM

You assume they are going to try to have the reveals make sense. I think OMD has shown they really don't give a fuck about making sense.

Velorath
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Reply #5 on: February 26, 2008, 11:15:32 PM

While the X-Men Logan is busy with mutant stuff, and hunting down Mystique, the Skrull takes his place in the Avengers.  Two different social circles.

SPIDER-MAN - Okay, same with the Wolverine case.  The solo title and OMD/BND stuff really seems to preclude him from any New Avenger activities.  His costume was also Black in NA for much longer than it was in OMD.  Could be scheduling/shipping issues, but it seems like a possibility.  Especially with the new retcon in OMD/BND, it leads me to think that maybe Peter Parker is spending time being Spider-Man, and a Skrull is doing the same thing, just elsewhere.  Also, Spider-Man was VERY interested in saving Baby half-Skrull.  Which very much in-character for Peter, he seems to be kind of a jerk while carrying it off.

Yeah, it would be Awesome, For Reals if the Skrulls' most ambitious plan to date to take over the Earth, which they've presumably been planning out and slowly enacting for a long period of time, is totally and utterly dependent on Wolverine and Spider-man never calling or otherwise contacting the Avengers, or seeing duplicates of themselves when the Avengers are shown on the news.
Llava
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Reply #6 on: February 27, 2008, 03:20:26 AM

Wolverine's not a social guy.

And Spider-Man is shy.

Totally reasonable.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Tebonas
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Reply #7 on: February 27, 2008, 04:17:27 AM

Which helps for the calling people, put not the reading in the paper or watching in the news part. Too shy to watch TV?

Nontheless, it sounds like a plan that Marvel would come up with.
Llava
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Reply #8 on: February 27, 2008, 04:22:05 AM

Wolverine's a busy man, he has multiple super-hero teams to fight on and solo adventures to pursue.  He has no time for television and newspapers.

Oh wait, but if this happened, he wouldn't be on multiple teams... damn! Now I know why it's so hard to write comics!

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Mazakiel
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Reply #9 on: February 27, 2008, 08:32:57 AM

Wolverine's drinking beers on a beach somewhere, glad that someone else is getting to put up with the various douches on the teams he's part of. 
Lantyssa
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Reply #10 on: February 27, 2008, 02:57:43 PM

Oh wait, but if this happened, he wouldn't be on multiple teams... damn! Now I know why it's so hard to write comics!
Multiple factions with several replacements.  I already covered this.
Wolverine's drinking beers on a beach somewhere, glad that someone else is getting to put up with the various douches on the teams he's part of. 
Could be.  After doing quintiple duty, he was probably ready for a break.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Llava
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Reply #11 on: February 28, 2008, 02:00:56 AM

I've got it!

There is no real Wolverine.  From day one he's just been about a dozen different Skrulls all working in shifts!

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
HaemishM
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Reply #12 on: February 28, 2008, 10:05:29 AM

Oh if only that were true and we could rid ourselves of one of the most annoying characters ever created in comics. Wolvy should have been killed during Chris Claremont's run on X-Men in the mid-to-late 80's.

Velorath
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Reply #13 on: March 03, 2008, 07:09:02 PM

Comic Book Resources put up some preview pages of various Marvel comics coming out in a couple days.  At the bottom of the page is a six page preview of Secret Invasion Saga, which appears to be a summary of the events that led up to Secret Invasion.  The amateurish writing of John Rhett Thomas aside, Marvel might want to take a closer look at this issue for an understanding of everything that's wrong with Secret Invasion thus far.

To start with, look at the sheer amount of text on each and every page that they feel is required to get readers who haven't been following New Avengers, or the Illuminati mini, up to speed on what this crossover is actually about.  If they can't find a more succinct way of getting people caught up, perhaps using a plotline that's been meandering around for years as the setup for this years big event story might be ill-advised  Secondly, it just reminds me that using the Elektra = Skrull revelation as the kickoff (for the characters not for the readers, as Marvel inexplicablly decided to keep the story on a slow burn for months upon months rather than go right into Secret Invasion) of a major event for the MU falls dramatically flat considering it's the kind of plot point that would have been used for a single issue story in Fantastic Four back in old days.

I actually had to keep myself from groaning out loud when I read the lines: "One thing he said I can't quite figure out -- It was so poetic, sounding almost biblical: 'As it was written, it is now done.'  I don't know what to make of that , but it sounded a little too close to religious fundamentalist cant for my liking."

It sounds a little too close to ham-fisted, cliched dialogue to me, not to mention an annoying attempt at being topical by trying to make the Skrull invasion a religious thing.
HaemishM
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Reply #14 on: March 04, 2008, 10:40:50 AM

Yeah, those 6 pages were painfully bad. They've done a really bad job of loosely comparing all the big event stories lately to the events of the day, trying to make Civil War some kind of allegory for reducing civil liberties, World War Hulk to unilateral military action, etc. etc. And it's all been really ham-fisted, unsubtle crap. That kind of thing works best when it's extremely subtle, and this stuff just isn't. Drawing out the Elektra reveal over what... 6 months? It hasn't helped build any sort of tension, especially when the continuity between Mighty Avengers, New New Avengers and Iron Man is so totally fucked an event like the Venom bomb in Mighty is actually covered months earlier in New.

Velorath
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Reply #15 on: April 03, 2008, 03:22:08 PM

Jarvis, Dum Dum Dugan, and Hank Pym...

Isuue #1 only reinforces my thoughts of what a shit idea this is.  I'm sure they'll have some more "shocking" reveals down the road in this book, but the reality is that unless they want to completely invalidate tons of stories and make fans feel cheated (which I guess after seeing OMD is actually a possibility), they can't reveal any characters that star in their own books as being completely replaced by Skrulls.
Margalis
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Reply #16 on: April 03, 2008, 03:56:45 PM

Sneaky way to bring back Captain America?

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
NowhereMan
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Reply #17 on: April 03, 2008, 04:06:58 PM

Take out sneaky and you may be on to something.

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Velorath
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Reply #18 on: April 03, 2008, 04:59:17 PM

Sneaky way to bring back Captain America?

Doubtful.  First and foremost, the death of Cap is Brubaker's story, and I don't see Secret Invasion as really fitting in with his plans and what he's doing with Captain America right now.
Lantyssa
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Reply #19 on: April 03, 2008, 06:11:47 PM

A patriotic Skrull who gets a bit of Steve added to his DNA could always become the next Cap...

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Velorath
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Reply #20 on: April 04, 2008, 05:16:20 AM

Just for a second here, I'd like to say something positive about Secret Invasion, because I actually feel somewhat bad about coming into a topic where someone wanted to discuss a story they're enthusiastic about and just being negative about the whole thing.  So let me say that the story itself, as contained within this issue, isn't bad.  Taken on its own, it could actually be a fun book.  Bendis just needs to learn that not everything has to be an event, and that all his stuff doesn't need to tie in together to form some larger tapestry.
Lantyssa
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Reply #21 on: April 04, 2008, 07:59:11 AM

I would like to agree, however given Marvel's history, we find that their events tend to have a bunch of bad stories mixed with a couple of decent ones on their own, that as a whole muck with the universe far more than any storyline should.

If they gave us something which was interesting we might cut them some slack.  They're pretty far in the hole when it comes to massive events though.

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HaemishM
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Reply #22 on: April 04, 2008, 10:50:05 AM

I haven't seen this yet but....

Jarvis, Dum Dum Dugan, and Hank Pym...

FOR FUCK'S SAKE. The butler, the sidekick and the barely sane wife-beating scientist that no one likes.

Bendis, please, just stop it.

Khaldun
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Reply #23 on: April 04, 2008, 02:02:55 PM

I bow to no one in my dislike for Civil War, but...this was not terrible.

Even given how much this particular kind of story has been done in comics alone.

If Bendis is willing to man up and really play fair about why some people prefer the feeling of 70s Marvel, it could actually turn into an interesting opportunity for the company to think about where it is and where it wants to be.

This is sort of what I had hoped would happen with Infinite Crisis over at DC: a chance to think, "Do we really want to be telling the stories we're telling, in the ways that we're telling them right now?" And then we had Black Adam ripping hearts out of chests and more importantly, the plain old bad narrative storytelling of the last three issues.
Velorath
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Reply #24 on: April 04, 2008, 06:49:05 PM

I haven't seen this yet but....

Jarvis, Dum Dum Dugan, and Hank Pym...

FOR FUCK'S SAKE. The butler, the sidekick and the barely sane wife-beating scientist that no one likes.

Bendis, please, just stop it.

I can only hope for the sake of the Skrull that replaced Jarvis, that One More Day managed to erase his memories of having to feign attraction to Aunt May.
TenaciousMike
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Reply #25 on: April 06, 2008, 09:25:09 PM

I haven't seen this yet but....

Jarvis, Dum Dum Dugan, and Hank Pym...

FOR FUCK'S SAKE. The butler, the sidekick and the barely sane wife-beating scientist that no one likes.

Bendis, please, just stop it.

I can only hope for the sake of the Skrull that replaced Jarvis, that One More Day managed to erase his memories of having to feign attraction to Aunt May.

Feign?  She's banging.

I'd hit it.

___

Tenacious Mike
HaemishM
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Reply #26 on: April 07, 2008, 09:31:08 AM

Finally read the first issue. Meh.

The attack stuff was kind of cool, but the whole "Bendis has been planning this the whole time" schtick just isn't flying with me. Either he has planned it and told no one, which is the reason so many things haven't made sense, or editorial has planned it all along and done it very very badly OR, the more likely scenario, they are still making it up as they go along and trying to claim it was all planned for several years.

I ain't buying it.

Now if that little reveal at the end is genuine (all the heroes coming out of the ship), that signals to me they are willing to go back through 40 years of continuity and invalidate shit that has happened all along. Which I suppose they've been pretty upfront about being willing to do just that. It still sucks ass, though. What part the Kree people have to play in all this (Novar and Mar-vell) remains to be seen.

TenaciousMike
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Reply #27 on: April 10, 2008, 04:08:32 PM

Now if that little reveal at the end is genuine (all the heroes coming out of the ship), that signals to me they are willing to go back through 40 years of continuity and invalidate shit that has happened all along. Which I suppose they've been pretty upfront about being willing to do just that. It still sucks ass, though. What part the Kree people have to play in all this (Novar and Mar-vell) remains to be seen.

You aren't being paranoid enough about it.  There is no fucking way they can have ALL those on the ship be "lost" heroes.  A more likely scenario is that maybe 1 or 2 of them could possibly be legit, but the rest are skrulls.  Or, they're all skrulls just trying to cause even MORE confusion.

I dunno.  Maybe I'm just a fanboy, but I tend not to read things too critically.  I like being paranoid about the stories, not the behind-the-scenes writing.

Of course, if it sucks when all is said and done, I'll probably be saying the same things you are.  Even though I hated Spidey's OMD, I still read the whole thing (unfortunately  ACK! )

___

Tenacious Mike
Velorath
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Reply #28 on: April 10, 2008, 04:22:42 PM

I like being paranoid about the stories, not the behind-the-scenes writing.

Unfortunately in recent years, Marvel hasn't kept enough of their writing actually behind the scenes.
Azazel
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Reply #29 on: April 10, 2008, 04:27:44 PM

Marvel comics writers make George Lucas seem like a competent writer.

I seem to recall them not being quite that ridiculous when I used to read them. At least not nearly as as often and as cross-over-y.

Bring back Secret Wars!   tongue


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TenaciousMike
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Reply #30 on: April 11, 2008, 09:13:47 AM

Marvel comics writers make George Lucas seem like a competent writer.

I seem to recall them not being quite that ridiculous when I used to read them. At least not nearly as as often and as cross-over-y.

Bring back Secret Wars!   tongue



I actually kinda prefer crossovers because they tend to make a little more sense.  How is it that when some kind of planetary threat shows up, only 1 hero fights it in his solo book, and nobody else even KNOWS?  Doesn't seem right.  Seems like that these events should have effects on the whole of the world.

___

Tenacious Mike
Azazel
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Reply #31 on: April 12, 2008, 04:34:52 AM

I remember, a couple(?) years before I totally stopped collecting standard superhero books, in one of the 3 spidey titles, there was a (I think) purposefully-ridiculous story which resulted in some major intergalactic threat to the earth, as in "the certain destructoin of the planet and everything on it" variety, which spidey solved within the single issue (I think he went to either the moon or outer space in the course of saving the world). Even then, as a much younger reader I thought "WTF this is stupid" before deciding that the whole point of the story was a piss-take on superhero comics in general.


http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Velorath
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Reply #32 on: April 23, 2008, 02:49:46 AM

So, Captain Marvel returns from the dead in that crappy Civil War: The Return one-shot, then pretty much gets ignored until his recent 5 issue mini, which at the end has just revealed him as a Skrull who actually thought he was Mar-vell.  I'm not sure if I should be upset at the whole shitty concept, or just grateful that this shit didn't get dragged out even longer.
rk47
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Reply #33 on: April 24, 2008, 02:35:37 AM

omg spoiler goddamit    awesome, for real

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HaemishM
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Reply #34 on: April 25, 2008, 12:59:30 PM

So, Captain Marvel returns from the dead in that crappy Civil War: The Return one-shot, then pretty much gets ignored until his recent 5 issue mini, which at the end has just revealed him as a Skrull who actually thought he was Mar-vell.  I'm not sure if I should be upset at the whole shitty concept, or just grateful that this shit didn't get dragged out even longer.

Dear... fucking... GOD.

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