Memoirs of a Suicide Ganker

[Slayerik]

I am a believer in middle mouse as well.

[Morat20]

They ganked newb corp hulks. That's got to be boring mining.

[Teleku]

Empire exhumer ganking. 

http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kills&w=8&y=2008

Wowa. that's a lotta barges. What's the story behind that? They were all at war?

I'll have to see if I can find the post again, found it on the EvE boards.  Suicide ganks, I guess it only takes like 2 T1 fitted caracals to gank an exhumer before Concord shows up so it's very easy to keep in profit just from a few faction/t2/whatever miners.

Mostly boredom I think though.

*edit* http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=713223

Wow, that's a ton of hulks.  I wonder if this will lead to Exhumer defense buffs.  Considering you get a fraction of the money you spend on a Hulk back for insurance, this is some extreme griefing.  That costs the aggressors absolutely nothing at all to do this as well...

[bhodi]

I think it's awesome. People seem to think they are invincible in empire, and I applaud any measure that reminds people that idea is dead wrong.

[Thrawn]

I think it's awesome. People seem to think they are invincible in empire, and I applaud any measure that reminds people that idea is dead wrong.

Until people just start suicide ganking new players in the starting systems for fun and no one else ever joins EvE again. 

[bhodi]

Come on now, ganking hulks hiding in the newbie corp (so they can't be wardecc'd), ships that take 90 days minimum to pilot and more time than that to outfit, and who are probably macroing gold farmers is a far cry from popping newbies.

[Moosehands]

Every time someone has gotten really good/successful at Empire ganking CCP has changed the mechanics.  Another month or so of Jihadswarm and we can expect to see an increase in Concord aggression timers or a buff to exhumer tanks or something.

[Morat20]

Come on now, ganking hulks hiding in the newbie corp (so they can't be wardecc'd), ships that take 90 days minimum to pilot and more time than that to outfit, and who are probably macroing gold farmers is a far cry from popping newbies.

You know, that makes me think we really need to try a bait operation one day.

[Teleku]

Come on now, ganking hulks hiding in the newbie corp (so they can't be wardecc'd), ships that take 90 days minimum to pilot and more time than that to outfit, and who are probably macroing gold farmers is a far cry from popping newbies.

Even then, I like to mine, and trained myself up to fly a Hulk.  I use it to mine high sec ore for fun and profit, and avoid the low sec areas which have much better ore.  I just do it solo, no apart of a big corp or alliance or anything.  Losing a hulk means I take over 100m loss (even after insurance).  With this method, anybody who wants to completely ruin my time in Eve can do so, with absolutely no loss to themselves, and no way for me to do anything to them.  If you really feel its good to make high sec unsafe, may as well just make the whole damn thing PvP+.  No CONCORD at all.  Now its unsafe for everybody, and maybe I can do something back to them!

But seriously, you can't make the game that griefable.  The game only survives due to the protection that high sec offers.  Start allowing the 1% to start ruining the gameplay for the rest, and everybody leaves.  The only targets who get suicide ganked normally are indy pilots, who only get ganked if they are hauling cargo so valuable that they have to be extremely rich anyways.  Hulks are probably the only other target you can find that you can inflict such a one sided ISK loss to (with way less risk/investment than indy ganking), and are easy to track down.  Hulks are something casual solo/small corp players can actually work up to, but can't afford to lose.

If this happened to me, that would pretty much be insta quit. 

With maybe a side order of building an orbital doom laser that would sink Iceland into the cold cold depths of the North Atlantic.

[Slayerik]

Come on now, ganking hulks hiding in the newbie corp (so they can't be wardecc'd), ships that take 90 days minimum to pilot and more time than that to outfit, and who are probably macroing gold farmers is a far cry from popping newbies.

Even then, I like to mine, and trained myself up to fly a Hulk.  I use it to mine high sec ore for fun and profit, and avoid the low sec areas which have much better ore.  I just do it solo, no apart of a big corp or alliance or anything.  Losing a hulk means I take over 100m loss (even after insurance).  With this method, anybody who wants to completely ruin my time in Eve can do so, with absolutely no loss to themselves, and no way for me to do anything to them.  If you really feel its good to make high sec unsafe, may as well just make the whole damn thing PvP+.  No CONCORD at all.  Now its unsafe for everybody, and maybe I can do something back to them!

But seriously, you can't make the game that griefable.  The game only survives due to the protection that high sec offers.  Start allowing the 1% to start ruining the gameplay for the rest, and everybody leaves.  The only targets who get suicide ganked normally are indy pilots, who only get ganked if they are hauling cargo so valuable that they have to be extremely rich anyways.  Hulks are probably the only other target you can find that you can inflict such a one sided ISK loss to (with way less risk/investment than indy ganking), and are easy to track down.  Hulks are something casual solo/small corp players can actually work up to, but can't afford to lose.

If this happened to me, that would pretty much be insta quit. 

With maybe a side order of building an orbital doom laser that would sink Iceland into the cold cold depths of the North Atlantic.

The game only thrives due to the protection High sec provides. I have seen games with 1/10,000th of eve's subscriber base 'survive'. Just didn't like the way you worded that....

I personally don't like the tactic, just because they aren't doing it for profit, merely griefing. I did see a Gisti Small Shield Booster in there though.

Once again this tactic can easily be defeated by:

Warp core stabilizers and
Not being AFK
Running multiple ECMs in your mids and a burst, or Invulns/Kinetic hardeners
Running 5 Medium ECM drones
Using 1 low slot for a Damage control II (adding 60% resists to the 3100 structure, roughly 6000 HP) - I love how this game can allow one module, for around 1.5 million isk, save your precious ship...if you are smart enough to use it.
Not crying so much

Er wait, that was just you above.  See, people don't tank their ships because they are stupid/lazy/want to do something else better. Thats the chance you take.

An untanked hulk will take about 5,000 damage. A brutix, with my skills, does about 500-550 DPS with a 1314 alpha. If I were to be ECMed at any point in that suicide attempt, I'm going to fail. So Tele, take some precautions with your precious hulk and throw on some ECM drones, a DC II, and maybe some ECM in your mids. I guarentee they will never kill you. Hell, a DC II would probably stop 95% of the attempts listed on their killbaord.

EDIT: Also, you seem to be ok with Indy ganking...because it doesn't effect you. I bet some of those guys that have been ganked have quit. Same with the CNR fags. Fact is there are counters to every bad situation you have listed. Probably the most vulnerable, ironicaly, are the guys with their 3 billion isk CNRs. If a TRI op wants you dead and you are in the wrong place...your chance of survival is real fuckin slim.

[Hoax]

Hell don't even change your fitting, be less afk and align to something.

As Slayer pointed out there are too many ways to avoid being duo'd by caracals for the loss of 100mil for me to feel anything but glee that people are getting suicided, I'm against any kind of griefing that targets genuine newbies, people who just easy road the game for mindless profit getting blown up and having some risk put back in?  All for that. 

tl;dr?

l2p, cry more nub, etc.

[Teleku]

Fair points, Slayerik.  I would say that changing some of the fittings as you mentions isn't much of an option for High Sec miners because you need every percentage boost to your mining amount to be profitable (and I use all my drones to fight off rat spawns, so no ECM there).  And lets be realistic, paying attention to the screen at all times while barge mining (3 minutes between each load coming in) IS quite a bit to ask ;).  Its one thing if you are going low sec/0.0, its your risk then.  Keeping your eyes glued to the screen in high sec..... :(  It was pretty much designed by CCP to be half AFK'ed.  But yes, there is more you could be doing (and I'm sure after this, many will be) to help stop this.

But maybe you can help me understand this better.  I see they are ganking alot of people in .7 space.  That should have a decent response time, right (I can't find an exact number anywhere..)?  I also see alot of 2 cruiser ganks going on in these systems, against Hulks who even have some shield hardeners/extenders.  I know you have some insane DPS with your skills, yet you seem to be saying even with your suicide set up, it would be hard for you to do this.  So....how is it happening?  It does seem that they are throwing cruisers at them, and have to be killing them in a short time (which would sort of screw the player over anyways when trying to get out, since Hulks are very slow).

Anyways, even ignoring all that, I guess the way I look at it compared to Indy ganking is that your are ganking people in ships much much crappier than yours.  Those things cost a few million, and don't take that much in the way of SP to fly.  In that regards, it makes perfect sense for you in you BC to manage to blow them up before Concord comes.  Its a crappy ship, regardless of what valuable stuff they have put in it.  They also have other options.  They can spend the training time to get a Transport Ship which is alot harder to take down.  With my Hulk, I HAVE spent the days training to fly it.  It cost me as much as a Battleship (and I get a fraction of the Insurance back, unlike a BS).  I have put in the money and the training time for the best option, unlike the people your ganking.  But people in a few crappy cruisers can gank me fast, apparently.  At least make them have to throw BS's at me or something.  That would make more sense, and require a more equal amount of risk/reward to the aggressor.  Its a ship class well beyond what they are using to gank it, unlike Indy's.

And just to respond to your edit, I actually do kind of have a problem with the Indy ganking, but as I already said, I can rationalize that within the game mechanics.  I also don't see any difference as you do in the reason for ganking.  Suicide ganking is suicide ganking, if your doing it for profit or grief, if your doing it against a pro or a 1 day newb.  None of those are different to me.  The Hulk thing also doesn't really effect me since I only use it to mine out hidden asteroid belts now (which makes me alot harder to find, and avoids the ore thief's, and has better ore), and never go to general belts.  But I can symphasize with being in that position, and that would be a really shitty thing to have happen to you.

[Slayerik]

Thanks for naming yet another way to avoid it... hidden belts.

But yeah, I understand what you are saying...and I wouldnt be opposed to a slight boost to hulk shields/armor/resist - Do you really need drones to kill .7 rats? I just figured they could be permatanked....

So basically, what I'm saying to any hulk pilots is fit a damage control II! You will not die to two cruisers. It takes a mining upgrade slot, I know, but you can go uber money making route or very good money making route with some tank.

[K9]

Why are so many of those Exhumers on that killboard using Civilian Shield Booster Is? (e.g.) I'm hardly an Eve Expert, but that just seems... odd.

[Merusk]

Why are so many of those Exhumers on that killboard using Civilian Shield Booster Is? (e.g.) I'm hardly an Eve Expert, but that just seems... odd.

They're not buying modules, just fitting whatever shit drops off rats.  And in a .7 system only picking-up 'rat drops it IS shit.

[Hoax]

Yeah its basically because they are macro miner bullshit, not real players.

Actually I thought about it a second and I've decided its entirely possible that the fitting was stretched so thin that civvy stuff was the best that could be fit?

Still dont feel too terribly though.

Fair points, Slayerik.  I would say that changing some of the fittings as you mentions isn't much of an option for High Sec miners because you need every percentage boost to your mining amount to be profitable (and I use all my drones to fight off rat spawns, so no ECM there).

The bolded part is bs, to be profitable?  Mining is free money, esp when its afk, braindead, norisk mining.  How people figured they deserve that right is beyond me.  But thats like saying I can't equip a tank in missions because I need max damage to be profitable.  Sure hitting better isk/time ratios are ideal but its hardly an issue of viable levels of profit.

[Slayerik]

"[posted in CAOD even if there is no Alliance for "Carebears" that I know of]

To GS, TRI and whoever else is ganking mission runners in Empire:

Seeing the recent development from the perspective of an after work gamer who *really* enjoys PvE and has *very* little time to do anything else, in the beginning I was just ****ed, but there is more to see and say about this.

Analysis: You beat other people up, because you want their riches and/ or "because you can", meaning it gives you "some kind of satisfaction" to act out your power over a group of lesser beings.

Sure, the facts that
a) they don't have someone to defend themselves (so you don't have to take risks) and
b) are "just carebears" (so you don't have to feel bad cause everyone know carebears are a minor, worthless, weak race) makes it pretty easy: You just count your ISK, knowing that can't be punished.
Plus, as Digital Communist has pointed out, maybe (after being ganked) the worthless maggots
c) may want to join you for protection, and you would of course happily recruit them, so
d) they can farm alliance ISK in 0.0, and if need be
e) you surely could "motivate" them into being PvP cannon fodder.

This behaviour is just all too human, but it makes me sick nonetheless. And satisfying it with "we just get at them because they have gotten rich on the backs of the working class" just tops it off...

Mark my words: This combination of greed, arrogance, selfishness and complete disregard of the well- being of other humans is the exact reason why we (the human race) **** up the REAL world RIGHT NOW. Child soldiers, relocated tribes in "reservates", genocide, pogroms, or, generally speaking, killing out of greed and jacking off in the process because it feels so great.

It just makes me puke.

I stopped reading papers and watching TV because I didn't want to be remembered constantly about how sick humanity really is; I wanted to forget the fact that we are like this, and now I can't even log into EVE without being reminded of what an utterly fascist scum race we are?

Thanks for reminding me though, have fun destroying the hard work as well as the pleasure of others. You have no honor, no dignity, no empathy.

*pukes*

"

Poor CNR fag.

[Thrawn]

Wow, I need to go find that post and read the replys.

*edit* found it, for anyone else who wants to read the fun - http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=714837

[bhodi]

I noticed Eve Insider did an article on it.

goonswarm campaign reaffirms the dangers of empire space
reported by ISD Argooros Ployon | 2008.02.27 06:31:10 | NEW
Reports are coming in from asteroid fields all across Empire-controlled space that GoonSwarm Alliance is conducting a new campaign against Hulks. GoonSwarm's kill board for this campaign, (titled "Jihadswarm" in their signature style) indicates that some 66 Hulks have been killed along with a few industrial ships so far. Another 100 or so Hulks and Mackinaws have been reported as killed on their main board.

I sat down with GoonSwarm diplomat Vile Rat and Karttoon, the leader of the Jihadswarm faction, to talk to them about this. Karttoon unabashedly confirmed that "yes, we are engaging against any regular miner in Empire controlled space." He claimed that in the first five days of the campaign GoonSwarm had destroyed over 34 billion ISK of assets, and that in all some 250 ships have been destroyed thus far.

Vile Rat emphasized that this was not a campaign against new pod pilots, but against those who by now should be making it in lawless space with all of its dangers.

When asked whether or not GoonSwarm was doing this for personal gain in the Hulk market both denied this was the case. "For far too long," Vile Rat said, "the weak have lived under the protection of Concord's protective umbrella and have gotten rich off the backs of the working class."

When asked if GoonSwarm would be ransoming Hulks during this campaign Karttoon said, "We shall allow penance for the wealth hoarders to remain on our holy land." His comments seemed to suggest that GoonSwarm is claiming all of Empire controlled space as their own, if not materially then in some spiritual manner.

Calimor, a New Eden researcher, points out that GoonSwarm's campaign is affecting the black market where ISK is exchanged for black market currencies. "Although many innocents are being attacked, miners who work for outlaw corporations are feeling a huge hit." Prices on the black market have gone up 50% since GoonSwarm's campaign began.

The Ex-Band of Brothers spymaster Digital Communist, himself no stranger to the dark underbelly of New Eden, had his own theory as to what was driving the GoonSwarm campaign. He also referred to recent actions taken by Triumvirate. who have similarly been making life much harder for Empire-dwellers.

Whatever the underlying reasons may be, it is becoming increasingly clear that CONCORD's influence over the actions of capsuleers within supposedly "lawful" space is once again being challenged. The common perception that CONCORD-enforced space is safer for capsuleers than the frontier regions has long been considered something of a myth.

"There's a cyclical nature to CONCORD's power over the capsuleer class," remarked Amir Kevash, an Associate Professor of the new "Capsuleer Studies" department at Caille State University.

"[Pod pilots] will find a loophole, exploit it for personal gain or indeed, simple amusement. CONCORD will move to plug the gap as always. A few months later, as tactics and technologies evolve, a new workaround will be found and once again CONCORD will be on the back foot. From the Goons and the recent Black Ops jumpdrive fiasco to as far back as the now-infamous smartbombing of Yulai and earlier, there has always been a certain to-and-fro between the two groups."

Kevash remarked that with the recent problems CONCORD was already facing, they were likely already stretched too thin to deal with smaller issues in a timely fashion, leaving empire-bound capsuleers to fend for themselves for the time being, perhaps indefinitely.

"It's getting to the point where it's becoming flagrant. Podders are once again flaunting their disregard for the rule of law. Their methods are becoming as widely-spread in terms of knowledge as they are in terms of a shrugging acceptance amongst the populace. Take that egger vonHolst's recent holovid for example. Not only does it bring the issue to a huge audience, not only does it display the methodology, but it does so with an unmistakable sense of pride. It's yet another bump on CONCORD's increasingly rocky road."

Almost as if to confirm Kevash's statements, Vile Rat ended his comments by addressing empire-dwellers with the remarks: "You are on notice; we are coming for you." One thing is for sure--miners in Empire controlled space have a new danger to watch out for.

There is also this guy who's got an incredible video. He uses the wardec, so once they are fleeted with his alt, he brings in his main that's got a war on with the alt and kills the raven.

[Video] “Carebear sorrows” ½ Trillion ISK In damage inflicted on the Care Bear community.

I think that may classify this movie as the true, “Most expensive non-capital ship movie ever”. Some of the shots in the video you can clearly see appoxamently 100B in mods from 2 of my major sales in the past.

So here it is... Those that know me know that I have been talking about making this video for ages. I had a decent amount of fraps footage when Lofty released his movie but I never really got around to making one (no time to learn Adobe Premier etc.). This week I deiced to just sit down and get the damn thing done in my spare time. This is my first try at making a movie so i hope you think it came out ok. Lofty, Bryg, Corn Meal, and Arrgg actually all used to bear gank out of an in-game chan for a while working out of different systems…. Good times!

Some highlights on the experience:

• Over 120B Isk earned in loot and ransom theft.
• Approx 500B in damage to level 4 mission runners (note the kill board totals are modded to include the module drops and values into the total damage inflicted. However the “Total number” is still largely off due to the fact that “dropped items” were not included from the old kill mail system =[).
• Over 100 documented faction battleship kills. (the real figure is closer to 130, as many kill mails were stolen by NPC’s, and self destructs). Many uber fit command ships and normal battleships, but I made the KB faction battleships only, just for fun.

I have been killing bears using this method for nearly 1 year, however I am a fairly inactive player. As my kill board will show, I generally play in spurts 1 month on then a take a few off (as the kill board will confirm). All in all I estimate the total damage inflicted took place in about 90 actual days of actual playtime.

[Reg]

Hah, you'd think people would learn what a bad idea it is to make posts like that in the first place. :)

[Slayerik]

The shit I hate is, too much attention brought to my money making niche. I must go full bore until they nerf it :)

[Endie]

If anyone is interested, the Jihadswarm's inspirational prophet Misneden - may he die many happy suicidal deaths - posted these videos of his struggle with the infidel:

First, this one, which predates Jihadswarm, from when he was a lonely voice in the wilderness, crying out against the unclean and punishing the wicked macro-heretics.

Then this one, where he crushes five of the unbelieving Mackinaw jackals with smartbombs.  Allahu Ackbar!

[Moosehands]

I think both of those link to the same file.

[Der Helm]

I'd like to know how many FBI/CIA/etc. agents are refreshing the jhihadswarm.com domain as I write this 

[Endie]

I think both of those link to the same file.

You're right.  I fixed it.

[Vedi]

Has anyone considered going after research POSes in lowsec as a piracyish strategy? Some POS modules, especially mobile labs, are worth some money to scoop, and most of those POSes aren't well defended. Might take a couple of dreads to do efficiently though. Perhaps not worth the effort?

[MahrinSkel]

Can't unanchor them even after destroying the tower unless you're in the corp with the proper permissions (and if you've gotten a mole in, no need to destroy anything).  If you destroy the module, the BPC/BPO will pop out, I think.  But people don't generally put the really good ones in a POS.

--Dave

[Endie]

Can't unanchor them even after destroying the tower unless you're in the corp with the proper permissions (and if you've gotten a mole in, no need to destroy anything).  If you destroy the module, the BPC/BPO will pop out, I think.  But people don't generally put the really good ones in a POS.

--Dave

You sure that's still true, or am I misunderstading you?  Since trinity it's possible to blow up a tower and scoop the mods, since Bob have been very kindly donating to our wardrive.

I don't know about what happends with BPOs in the module - I think there is a chance it will drop and a chance that it won't.  Someone would have to try it out a bunch of times on Sisi and I'm not spending that time on it, for sure.

[MahrinSkel]

Can't unanchor them even after destroying the tower unless you're in the corp with the proper permissions (and if you've gotten a mole in, no need to destroy anything).  If you destroy the module, the BPC/BPO will pop out, I think.  But people don't generally put the really good ones in a POS.

--Dave

You sure that's still true, or am I misunderstading you?  Since trinity it's possible to blow up a tower and scoop the mods, since Bob have been very kindly donating to our wardrive.

I don't know about what happends with BPOs in the module - I think there is a chance it will drop and a chance that it won't.  Someone would have to try it out a bunch of times on Sisi and I'm not spending that time on it, for sure.

They must have changed it.  I haven't done POS war since Trinity, I know there was a huge problem with some alliances anchoring 50+ cruise missile batteries and such so that it was a huge PITA to clear the moon, sounds like this might have been intended to counter that.

--Dave

[nurtsi]

There is also this guy who's got an incredible video. He uses the wardec, so once they are fleeted with his alt, he brings in his main that's got a war on with the alt and kills the raven.

OK, so did I get this right:

The guy has several alts that he uses to get into fleets with mission runners. Then he has his evil main dude who is in war with his own alts. Once the target enters a mission our evil pirate brings in his main and kills the target (with the help of his 'bait' character).

Doesn't it warn that "You are about to gang up with a person who has active wardecs on them, you can be shot at" or something when you join a fleet? At least I remember getting that sometimes. That should ring some bells.

[Nerf]

Yeah, it does, but it could be explained away fairly easily if a) you're sharp and b) they aren't.

[Nerf]

http://f13.7mph.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=202

God, that felt fucking good. This shit is like crack.

[Furiously]

Yum - nice kill!

[schild]

I commented!

[Slayerik]

http://f13.7mph.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=202

God, that felt fucking good. This shit is like crack.

Atta boy! Nice one.

Now your cherry is truly popped.

Since you used my hauler I get 50% , right ? ;)


EDIT: Also, I think the best part is you just got 6 Arby Cruises for your Raven, like we were talking about last night. lol