A crushing blow to internet douchebaggery...

[Rasix]

Well, I had my first and hopefully last Assassin's Creed dream.  I was Altair, I think in Damascus but you could tell you were in that machine thingy. Instead of killing people I kept finding my way to various fine food (like AJs) supermarkets and buying cheese.  Then I'd have to make my get away.. to go get more cheese.  I guess the guards didn't like me acquiring cheese. 

I don't think I'll be figuring this one out.   But it was kinda fun. 

[Morfiend]

Well, I had my first and hopefully last Assassin's Creed dream.  I was Altair, I think in Damascus but you could tell you were in that machine thingy. Instead of killing people I kept finding my way to various fine food (like AJs) supermarkets and buying cheese.  Then I'd have to make my get away.. to go get more cheese.  I guess the guards didn't like me acquiring cheese. 

I don't think I'll be figuring this one out.   But it was kinda fun. 

Wow, I dont know weather to be scared or envious.

[NiX]

Sorry to re-rail the thread, but I have a question about being prescribed stuff like this. Did anyone who is on these kinds of medication just go to their family doctor? I've been one of those "I don't need to be medicated" people for awhile now and I think it's time to see if something bigger could be up.

[Signe]

My GP is the one who prescribes anti-anxiety and mood fuckery drugs to me.  I've had three different GPs in the last five years because we moved so often and they all got me on this stuff.  I'm the one, against the latest doc's opinion, who decided I don't want to take them any more. 

Go me.

[Venkman]

My wife's been on it for almost a year, due mostly to light depression and onsettin anxiety. She's on the minimum dose, but six months in tried to com off it. That lasted three days. It definitely has helped (as did some life stabiliy, finally). Unless there's some biological longterm issues, she can be on it forever as far as I'm concerned. This only started after the non medicinalethods weren't working well (tougher stillwith two ore-schoolers).

17m clinically depressed Americans sounds plausible to me. Money isn't happiness solely because there's apprently neverenough of if in a culture constantly driving you to get more. But I also wonder if they changed how they measured it. Similar thing happened with obesity. Different issue, yes, but the amount of folks considered obese skyrocketed when the changed the measure of it.

In any case, I truly feel for those who are on anti-depressants, particularly for anxiety attacks. Those are freakin' scary.

Are you posting from your fucking cell phone? space bar ftw.

Originally I didn't get it. Than I re-read it. Yea, shit, that looks horrible. From iPod Touch. Still getting the swing of it.

[Margalis]

Anxiety attacks are very poorly names. Anxiety isn't the cause it's the effect. If you suddenly can't walk and your heart rate shoots up to 200 beats a minute you'll probably feel anxiety too.

[SnakeCharmer]

My GP is the one who prescribes anti-anxiety and mood fuckery drugs to me.  I've had three different GPs in the last five years because we moved so often and they all got me on this stuff.  I'm the one, against the latest doc's opinion, who decided I don't want to take them any more. 

Go me.

Good for you, I mean that.

[Selby]

Did anyone who is on these kinds of medication just go to their family doctor?

General practice MD.  She has made it her quest to help "cure" me, which I am not sure is possible.  She has also recommended several different specialists as well (yet ANOTHER specialist to go see).  My insurance just got done denying the latest concoction she wants to try, so I've about given up on caring about my supposed "mental well being" since I am functional enough to get up in the morning and go to work without any problems.

[Ironwood]

My GP is the one who prescribes anti-anxiety and mood fuckery drugs to me.  I've had three different GPs in the last five years because we moved so often and they all got me on this stuff.  I'm the one, against the latest doc's opinion, who decided I don't want to take them any more. 

Go me.

Good for you, I mean that.

Um.  Not to knock you, but it depends.  My father in law decided the same thing.  He was found swinging by his neck 3 days later.

Just because a doc shoves pills at you, doesn't mean you shouldn't be on 'em.

I mean that.

[Tebonas]

Its really hard to say. From comments in this thread it almost seems that anti-anxiety pills are given out like candy, even for things like natural mood swings even healthy persons have once in a while.

Of course, that comes from a position that US doctors are generally more interested in covering their asses than caring for their patients (based on BBC and Austrian radio commentaries from foreign correspondents that where overwhelmed by the sheer amount of things done on spec just that nobody can sue you because you didn't do that particular test - both were about childbirth).

Its a matter of trusting your doctor. Which is easier for a lifelong family doctor than some random doc you wander into once in a while. But both I would trust more than the internet 

[NiX]

My question wasn't geared towards finding out if I had anxiety.

[Tebonas]

My answer wasn't geared towards you either, more towards the disbelief that so many people have to take mood altering pills in the US.

[Engels]

Of course, that comes from a position that US doctors are generally more interested in covering their asses than caring for their patients (based on BBC and Austrian radio commentaries from foreign correspondents that where overwhelmed by the sheer amount of things done on spec just that nobody can sue you because you didn't do that particular test - both were about childbirth).

That really isn't the problem. The problem is a combination of factors.

Firstly, its a matter of health insurance. Virtually all US health insurance will not cover anything above 4 or 5 shrink visits. Any shrink out there will tell you that 90% of people showing up at the shrink's office have problems that can't possibly be treated in 4 days.

Secondly, the entire thrust of mental health care has followed a cognitive-behavioral approach rather than a psychodynamic approach. Its closely related to health insurance and economic concerns on the part of the medical establishment; cognitive-behavioral treatments claim that they are 'empirically' oriented, as in, the production of visible results. Psychodynamic, which follows a more traditional line of psychotherapy in its role of determining original cause and emotional resolution, simply cannot produce 'results' in the short time frame that interests those involved in making psychotherapy viable to the general populace.

Thirdly, and as a result of the above two factors, psychological problems have now been reduced to a pharmaceutical approach. The General Practice MD that handed Selby psychoactive medication is certainly not qualified to understand the psychology behind Selby's issues, but the 'short solution' has become so popular amongst insurers and 'health mill' care agencies that actual knowledge of psychology isn't particularly pertinent if a shotgun approach via happy pills gets the patient out of the office and back to work as soon as possible.

Don't get me wrong, in some fairly rare situations, medication is adviseable, as is the case with Ironwood's father-in-law. I know of another case of a philandering man who upon getting on a prescription, stopped wanting to hire prostitutes on every business trip he was on. There -are- cases where pharmaceutical intervention will immediately relieve a person's behavioral trends and restore them to a manageable state. But that by no means suggests that the actual problem has been addressed. The actual problem with any given individual is no longer of particular interest to American health care providers.

[Tebonas]

So its the quick and easy solution which happens to be the cheaper one as well? I can buy that even more than my original assumption.

[Signe]

My GP is the one who prescribes anti-anxiety and mood fuckery drugs to me.  I've had three different GPs in the last five years because we moved so often and they all got me on this stuff.  I'm the one, against the latest doc's opinion, who decided I don't want to take them any more. 

Go me.

Good for you, I mean that.

Um.  Not to knock you, but it depends.  My father in law decided the same thing.  He was found swinging by his neck 3 days later.

Just because a doc shoves pills at you, doesn't mean you shouldn't be on 'em.

I mean that.

I understand what you mean but I'm not depressed.  I was a bit years ago after my mother died suddenly, and that's where the string of those sorts of meds started.  I used to have pretty bad panic attacks but I've not had a bad one in years. My stress levels seem to be even better since we got kittens.  For some reason people would prefer to think I need medicine rather than accept the fact that I'm just unusual.  NOT SPECIAL!  Unusual.

[caladein]

So its the quick and easy solution which happens to be the cheaper one as well? I can buy that even more than my original assumption.

It's really more the Max Power way than anything else, at least from the Doctor's / Insurance's perspective.

[Ironwood]

I understand what you mean but I'm not depressed.  I was a bit years ago after my mother died suddenly, and that's where the string of those sorts of meds started.  I used to have pretty bad panic attacks but I've not had a bad one in years. My stress levels seem to be even better since we got kittens.  For some reason people would prefer to think I need medicine rather than accept the fact that I'm just unusual.  NOT SPECIAL!  Unusual.

And long may you continue to feel better.  I wasn't, however, being specific, but general with my advice.

:)

[Miasma]

You have to be pretty careful when starting many of these drugs because ironically one of the (not always encountered) side effects at the beginning is a sharp increase in suicidal feelings.  All sorts of stuff can happen when you go off them too.

[Yegolev]

Another bit of general advice, my wife switched primary-care physicians recently.  We traded an old, old man for a young fellow and he has some more progressive ideas about how to fix my wife's problems.  Specifically, he sent her to a sleep clinic before he approached the brain pill situation.  We didn't just pick some guy at random, either, but took the suggestion of a hypochondriac we know.  Turns out he's a great general practitioner.  I'm going to see him about my heart issues, will know more then.

[SnakeCharmer]

Um.  Not to knock you, but it depends.  My father in law decided the same thing.  He was found swinging by his neck 3 days later.

Just because a doc shoves pills at you, doesn't mean you shouldn't be on 'em.

I mean that.

Disclaimer:  I'm a happy guy.  Never been depressed over something I couldn't fix myself or wasn't a result of something I did.  And to a very large degree, very old school that you rub some dirt on it, you cowboy up, and move on.  

I feel that pills are the easy way out, and too often, people look for quick fixes as well as doctors being overly pill happy as a result of influence from pharmacutical companies.  As Miasma pointed out, some of the side effects of some of these drugs are worse than the symptoms they are supposed to be 'curing'.  Americans are particularly at fault for having false expectations of their life, and too often look for the easy way out.  Doctors have turned into enabling pez dispenser machines, and every where you turn, there's advertisements pushing these drugs on people as a cure for what ails them.  

Fat?  Take a pill! (Or get gastic bypass to stop you from eating 3 Big Macs in a sitting)
Can't get it up?  Take a pill!  Go like a porn star all night long!
Depressed?  Take a pill!  Happiness in a bottle!

When you start messing with body chemisty, bad things happen.  If your job is stressing you out, get a different one, or chose a different career path.  Unhappy with your life?  Change it.  Fix it.  Take it upon yourself to do it.  People need to take an honest assessment of their life and figure out WHERE the problem(s) is/are, and take charge of their own life.

Eating right and exercise can cure alot of problems, but for many people it's deemed too hard.  We've become a microwaved, instant gratification, drive through society where we want it all and we want it NOW!! and have basically gotten lazy.  It's gotten particularly bad with our youth. 

(When I say 'you', I'm speaking generally here, not you in particular Ironwood).

[Signe]

It's not even a matter of an easy way out.  When I'm on the brain pills, I don't always feel like myself.  It bothers me.  It's not like I'm terribly unhappy or anything.  I'm not overly violent, I have hardly ever shouted at strangers except in grocery stores, Righ and I NEVER argue and I've mostly never killed anything on purpose.  In the US, this is pretty good!  My GP also tried to get me to go to a sleep clinic.  Evidently there is a very good one close to us but I wouldn't go.  I have a lot of irrational pet peeves and that became one of them the minute she suggested it.

[Ironwood]

Anyone in this day and age who doesn't recognise clinical depression as a genuine illness with proper medical treatments is a moron of the highest order.  Further, it's not about 'happy or sad'.  It's certainly not something you can 'buck yourself out of' anymore than you could the fucking plague.

Some are strong and manage to ride through the illness and recover.  Like any illness, some succumb and die.

Trying to rationalise it any more than that when you haven't been through it is, to repeat, moronic.  It's even worse when you're seeing someone else go through it.  Go sit with a cancer patient you knew who was an active chap, or that PhD who now has Alzhiemers.  You'll know what I'm talking about.

Further, like any illness, it discriminates not a jot about where or who it strikes.  The happiest guy, the quietest guy, the nicest guy can suddenly turn depressed, withdrawn and suicidal.  It's an illness.

If you want to talk about your pill popping society, please do.  But it's a seperate argument.


Note, when I'm talking like this it is almost certainly in the general sense, but I want to adress this specific :

Unhappy with your life?  Change it.  Fix it.  Take it upon yourself to do it.  People need to take an honest assessment of their life and figure out WHERE the problem(s) is/are, and take charge of their own life.

This quote here has fuck all to do with Clinical Depression.  Honestly.  It's not something you fix by yourself, nor is it something that's brought about by things around you.

Be very aware, Snake, that I am in no way getting at you, nor the view you put forward.  This issue is too important to me for that.

[SnakeCharmer]

I understand that it's a particularly personal topic for you.  And trust me, I'm fully aware that I can sit here in my glass house and say 'Get over it' when it's not exactly that easy because I don't have the vantage point you do.  I should have stated in my earlier post that yes, there are probably some cases whereby chemical interuption is probably justified.  But I DO believe it should be a last resort.

Anyway, some people are just unhappy, miserable fucks that no amount of therapy or pills will cure, or it will take a complete lifestyle overhaul many people aren't willing to make for <whatever reason>.  But I will stand firm in my belief that most peoples ills are self induced, and subsequently can be self cured.  Sure that opinion may change if (God forbid) that something as tragic as your father in law happens to someone I love or care about, but for now - that's the way I feel.

[WayAbvPar]

I used to think exactly like you, Snake. Then my brain started screwing with me for no discernible reason. I started having sudden and severe panic attacks, especially while driving. I lived with it for a couple of years, completely miserable. If my friends wanted to go somewhere, I would not attend if I had to drive any significant (3+ miles) distance- they either picked me up or I sat at home. I literally could not drive on the freeway without endangering myself and others- all this happening to someone who used to drive for a living! I finally got sick and fucking tired of being miserable and asked my doctor about it, since I wasn't able to find a way out of it on my own.

I still don't understand where it came from. Apparently there is precedent in my family for similar issues, so it is likely at least partially hereditary. I do know that I am far happier now that I have my independence and freedom back. I still occasionally get slight twinges of panic/fear, but they are very muted. I don't feel like the medication has affected me in any negative way (other than the specific side affect I mentioned earlier in the thread that was solved by trying an alternate med). Would I rather not have to take it? Absolutely. However, the alternative to taking it is going back to being miserable. No thanks.

[HaemishM]

I'm absolutely no fan of the copious amounts of psychoactive drugs people in the US are being prescribed. It's too much, and often, it's being used on kids WAY TOO FUCKING EARLY.

However, if you've never had a panic attack, you literally cannot understand the unbreakable fucking vice grip that shits put on your every ability to function as a normal human being. I've only had 2 or 3 what I consider minor motherfuckers. And they were true motherfuckers, I will tell you. Throat closes up, heart's pumping for no reason and absolutely nothing anyone does or says, nor anything you tell yourself will help one fucking iota. My wife gets them a billion times worse than I ever had and I can't understand how she deals with them without medication (mainly because most of the medicines that would be prescribed will cause other problems that are untenable). But she does, and is a stronger person than she'll ever admit for doing it.

If I suffered from those goddamn things daily, I'd be a pill popping bitch before too long. They are just that bad.

[Yegolev]

If this problem occurs more often in the US, I blame products derived from corn.





I wear many foil hats.

[Signe]

The panic attacks are why I get prescribed all that shit... Lexapro, Effexor, Clonazapam, too many to count... and I STILL get them.  Taking a mood fucking pill every day doesn't seem to work for me at all and makes me feel mentally weird.  They also make you gain a ton of weight.  I certainly don't need any help with that!   I still haven't been able to figure out how to sleep without a pill every night but I'm working on it.  I will be happy when the only drugs I take are for fun! 

[MrHat]

The panic attacks are why I get prescribed all that shit... Lexapro, Effexor, Clonazapam, too many to count... and I STILL get them.  Taking a mood fucking pill every day doesn't seem to work for me at all and makes me feel mentally weird.  They also make you gain a ton of weight.  I certainly don't need any help with that!   I still haven't been able to figure out how to sleep without a pill every night but I'm working on it.  I will be happy when the only drugs I take are for fun! 

Awesome, best of luck. My wife has been taking Melatonin supplements instead of the sleeping pills she was taking before and it's been helping.

As for panic attacks, I was one of those people that can't really relate.  My wife is, apparently, deathly afraid of needles.  She had to get an IV last week because of some stomach flu she had, and I have NEVER EVER seen anyone become that afraid at anything in my life.  That being said, logical reasoning does sometimes work (it worked for us at the time).

[murdoc]

I'm deathly afraid of needles as well, but the Nurse made fun of me for it after she saw my tattoo and I felt better about the whole thing.

[Engels]

When I worked the night shift back in the day, working for Amazon in Seattle, I too took Melatonin as a supplement, since between living in Seattle and working the night shift, I was getting zero, zilch, nada sunlight at all, for over 3 years. It did help me sleep, but it always made me feel itchy somehow. Its a very odd little drug.

[NiX]

I still haven't been able to figure out how to sleep without a pill every night but I'm working on it.

This is the start of my problem. I took a sleeping pill last night (natural one without the addiction inducing crap) and I woke up 3-4 times. Each time was due to horrible nightmares, but I can't find a single thing about this drug causing nightmares. I'm kind of afraid to find out what the hell is going on.

[Merusk]

If this problem occurs more often in the US, I blame products derived from corn.





I wear many foil hats.

I actually attribute it to a lousy genetically-modified and overmedicated diet (the animals, they're on all kinds of pills TOO) and an overabundance of plastics.

Did you get the hat made out of the lovely gold last month from the foil of the month club?

[Signe]

NiXel


Merusk


SirBruce


Yoru


Schildy

There's one for everybody!

Edit:  Had to fix Merusk.

[NowhereMan]

psycho 

[Lantyssa]

To a small extent I agree with SnakeCharmer, at least the need for people to be more active about changing their situation.  Those things can certainly help, but they may not be enough.

I won't ever chide someone for taking pills.  I lost several years to depression where I tried to "buck up" and "power through it".  It didn't work so well.  I might as well have been in a drug induced haze for that period.  I've also known bi-polars who simply could not function without their medication.  I saw what happened when they thought they could.