Deus Ex 3. I shit you not.

[rk47]

Do you want to know why boss fights seemed so....detached?
It's because it's made by a different development team.

[Talpidae]

 

[Malakili]

Do you want to know why boss fights seemed so....detached?
It's because it's made by a different development team.

That explains a lot.  Can you elaborate? Or point me to an article or something, I'm interested.

[Tebonas]

At least they didn't let the cousin of the big boss and his drinking buddies do something important and the real crew programmed something in that lets me basically ignore those boss fights.

[Jeff Kelly]

It's apparent that the design team itself didn't think the boss fights to be a good idea. There is the typhoon upgrade that's basically a "win at boss fights" upgrade, there's the fact that you find every weapon you need to defeat the boss in the boss room or in the two or there rooms prior. Yet they still suck.

[Ingmar]

Is there a setting or something I'm missing that makes all the in-game movies ugly as shit? Whenever it gives me a cut scene its like I'm suddenly playing in 800x600 on a 1920x1200 screen, they look terrible.

[tgr]

It doesn't get any better at a 2560x1600 screen, but I just ignore it. It's not like it's everywhere.

[rk47]

I don't have a solid article but Grip Entertainment is the development team responsible for all the boss fights. If you read carefully at the starting screen, 'portions of the software are developed by Heavy Grip Industries Inc' Google it around and you won't find a thing, because the website is called Grip Entertainment, located in Montreal.

[kildorn]

It wouldn't make any sense to outsource content development for like, 4 short sections of the game. You outsource things like "go make me a shitload of futuristic office furniture", and such.

The boss fights just seemed like someone in the management chain didn't fully understand what the game was supposed to be, and wanted to know how you were going to get to shoot the main badguys in the face. Followed by the devs going "what main bad guys? All the main bad guys are dweebs in suits!"

And thus, the mercs became dumb enough to wander around alone instead of all just jacking you the first time they see you.

edit: Grip's website pretty clearly says what they do, as well. They do game AI software and crowd software. There aren't any crowds in Deus Ex, so I'm betting that nifty combat AI that stops everyone from just running at you is them.

[rk47]

It wouldn't make any sense to outsource content development for like, 4 short sections of the game. You outsource things like "go make me a shitload of futuristic office furniture", and such.

The boss fights just seemed like someone in the management chain didn't fully understand what the game was supposed to be, and wanted to know how you were going to get to shoot the main badguys in the face. Followed by the devs going "what main bad guys? All the main bad guys are dweebs in suits!"

And thus, the mercs became dumb enough to wander around alone instead of all just jacking you the first time they see you.

edit: Grip's website pretty clearly says what they do, as well. They do game AI software and crowd software. There aren't any crowds in Deus Ex, so I'm betting that nifty combat AI that stops everyone from just running at you is them.

http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/20352060#Comment_20352060

The comments that the boss fights felt so out of place that they felt like they were done by a different company are apparently true. The boss battles were handed off to GRIP Entertainment as said in the video below. Though Eidos Montreal did the same thing by letting Nixxes handle the PC version this hand off didn't go so well.

Embedded Youtube Interview vid on the link.

[kildorn]

Why would you hand off the whole boss sequence to an AI developer? If anything I'd less blame Grip, and more blame the idiot in management who decided that they should outsource not only an odd sequence, but also outsource it to someone who isn't even in the business of said sequence.

[rk47]

In defense of the boss battles of Deus Ex: Human Revolution

Not having a choice in this matter is annoying, but it may also be the point of these boss fights. Allow me to explain.

It's impossible to do everything. You should be reminded of that

 

[UnSub]

Imagine the scene in The Phantom Menace when Obi Wan Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn finally face Darth Maul directly.

And on the basis of using "The Phantom Menace" as a way of describing sensible narrative action and character behaviour, the entire article is wrong.

[rk47]

[Kail]

Is that guy under the impression that combat characters have those boss fights significantly easier?  Because there aren't that many combat augs (hardened skin, maybe aim steadying if you need it, is there anything else?) and even with them, the boss fights are retarded.  It's not a matter of combat characters having an advantage, it's a matter of the bosses being essentially normal grunts but amped up to take an entire box of rifle rounds to the head without flinching even with however many combat mods you get.  As far as I know, there's no strategy aside from either "pop out, shoot, run, hide, save, pop out, shoot, run, hide, save, etc." over and over and over again until your entire goddamn inventory is empty, or cheesing the fights with typhoons.  The problem is not that the boss fights are too hard (it's a save everywhere game, nothing is "hard"), it's that they're not fun.

The "it's impossible to do everything" argument seems flawed because A: this is not a side quest or something, these are main storyline characters you HAVE TO beat to finish the game, giving me a dozen different ways to play and then telling me that all but one of them are wrong, then that's not someone making some statement about the limitations of humanity, it's just being a dick.  If you choose to fight a gattling dude head on and he chews you up, then fine, know your limitations, preach on, but the game doesn't give you that choice, making the statement less about knowing your limitations and more about "someday, fate will kick you in the balls" which is not a lesson that's really needed in a game which is theoretically about choice.  And B: it's not impossible for stealth characters to beat these bosses, it's just really tedious and not fun.  No, sorry, I don't buy that it's some artsy bullshit about mortality or whatthefuckever, an FPS where you are just forced to shoot a fucking bad guy with a lot of bullets is not making a goddamn artistic statement with this groundbreaking innovation, it's running out of ideas.  Maybe for the DLC they'll try for some grand metaphor about the inevitability of fate and the futility of persistence by adding in a boring and half-assed rail shooter.

[Sheepherder]

If you choose to fight a gattling dude head on and he chews you up, then fine, know your limitations, preach on, but the game doesn't give you that choice, making the statement less about knowing your limitations and more about "someday, fate will kick you in the balls" which is not a lesson that's really needed in a game which is theoretically about choice.

It works for Planescape.

[Kitsune]

I had no problems with any of the boss fights.  EMP grenades mess them up.  The stun gun messes them up.  Dropping detpacks at their feet while they're stunned and blowing them up really messes them up.  Stunning them then emptying a magazine of armor-piercing pistol bullets into their face does a pretty good job too.  That humble 10mm was the only lethal gun I used through the entire game, and it did just great.  I used it solely for shooting down weakened walls and for shooting bosses in the face.

For the final fight I used the grenade launcher they gave me as a preorder bonus, then discovered that I hadn't really needed to use it after all.

[Lantyssa]

There are ways to beat them, but they feel cheap.

What annoys me is that you've got top-of-the-line military-grade augs, yet these guys are far tougher than you.  If you do a melee attack they counter it, even if stunned.  They're not designed to make you feel like a badass.

[rk47]

I know, that's the issue, most of the fights, Jensen was outmatched. He had to rely on 'invulnerable cover' and hope for an opening. No amount of combat augs will make Jensen able to stand in the hail of machine guns from standard troopers either...but these FEMA commandos have no issue taking 3 shot gun blasts to the face.

What's stopping the shells? Invisible force field? Titanium Skulls? I tried investing into max Dermal armor before, and it didn't feel much different, as long as you stick to cover and pop for a 100% accurate snap shot.

[Talpidae]

I found the max Dermal Armor did, in fact, turn you into a badass.  You could walk through quite the hail of fire before they took you down.

Without it, you're dead in a shot or two.

[cironian]

For the final fight I used the grenade launcher they gave me as a preorder bonus, then discovered that I hadn't really needed to use it after all.

Well, the very final boss battle is pretty awesome design-wise, due to the shitload of different approaches it allows. If the normal bosses had been even a little like that, I for one would have been happy.

[Lucas]

Possible spoilers, but that's a funny video 

http://kotaku.com/5837457/if-the-original-deus-ex-had-been-more-like-human-revolution

[Mosesandstick]

Youtube link if you want to avoid kotaku

[schild]

Saved Malika, took 4 stun gun rounds and 2 darts from the tranq rifle. I punched a lot of people in the face.

[Threash]

Yeah, it wasn't hard once i realized it was possible.

[Thrawn]

Saved Malika, took 4 stun gun rounds and 2 darts from the tranq rifle. I punched a lot of people in the face.

My biggest issue with that fight was that every time I EMP grenaded the drone it would blow up and kill someone which I'm assuming wrecked my Pacifist achievement attempt.  So I had to stun the guys, drag them away from the drone and then blow it up. 

I didn't have much trouble with the first boss fight, just unloaded my rockets on him, threw a few grenades and mowed him over with the assault rifle while he was stunned.  Took me a couple tries but nothing too crazy.  (Deux Ex difficulty)  Every boss fight after that I just ran up to them, Typhooned twice, fight over.

[Rasix]

I'm pretty sure I'd botch a no alarm, no kill run, so I don't think I'll even attempt one.

Finally beat the game.  Took me 26 hours, even with somewhat breezing through the end, not caring much about alarms and alerts on the last couple of levels. The end stretched on a bit, like all ends seems to do.  If they took out a hub (Montreal, right), you can really feel it.   The endings were not 100% to my liking, but good enough, and the end battle was far, far too easy.

Still, fantastic gaming experience.  GOTY until something knocks it off its perch.

[Thrawn]

I'm pretty sure I'd botch a no alarm, no kill run, so I don't think I'll even attempt one.

I would of bet $100 without pause that I did a no alarm run, but apparently the game disagreed. 

[Talpidae]

What bothers me about that is that there are levels where the bad chaps are pre-alarmed (like the PICUS HQ).

How does that work ?

[disKret]

What bothers me about that is that there are levels where the bad chaps are pre-alarmed (like the PICUS HQ).

How does that work ?

Ppl who get the achiev said that it does not count.

[cironian]

Hmm, tranq rifle headshots appear to be deadly. Good thing I am not going for Pacifist. How long a needle are they putting on those darts?

[Talpidae]

What bothers me about that is that there are levels where the bad chaps are pre-alarmed (like the PICUS HQ).

How does that work ?

Ppl who get the achiev said that it does not count.

No, I understand that, what I mean is how do you know when YOU'VE alarmed them ?  Or do they just call the level a wash ?

[Kail]

No, I understand that, what I mean is how do you know when YOU'VE alarmed them ?  Or do they just call the level a wash ?

Alarmed doesn't mean noticed, it means you tripped an alarm, either by an enemy pushing an alarm panel or you being spotted by the security system (camera or laser or something).  As long as you're not getting spotted by cameras or something, you can get the enemy to hostile and it still doesn't count as an alarm if the enemy doesn't hit an alarm button.  If the button is pushed in cutscene or something, it doesn't count, and there isn't anywhere I remember where the enemies will hit an alarm button without seeing you, even if they are automatically "alerted" to your presence.

For example, (endgame spoilers)

[Kitsune]

In fairness to the bosses, Jensen's just an ex-cop while they're insane hardcore military special ops.  The two are not really comparable.  And he got nice gear, but they were topped-out specifically for murder.  It's sort of a Robocop/ED-209 scenario.

[Furiously]

There are ways to beat them, but they feel cheap.

What annoys me is that you've got top-of-the-line military-grade augs, yet these guys are far tougher than you.  If you do a melee attack they counter it, even if stunned.  They're not designed to make you feel like a badass.

You know what annoys me? Adam's chin.