Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 29, 2024, 01:03:31 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  News  |  Topic: Failgate London or “Why You Don't Outsource Important Services.” 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Failgate London or “Why You Don't Outsource Important Services.”  (Read 179320 times)
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15157


Reply #140 on: November 21, 2007, 02:45:34 PM

I think schild's complaints here make good sense.

Look, when you're talking about norms enforcement, you really have two ways to approach it, and they're both important. The one is to not buy or participate in flawed systems. But when the entirety of a system that you have an interest in participating within is flawed, purity is not an option. That includes systems of consumption and cultural practice. So the second thing to do is describe "best practices" as well as minimum acceptable practices and absolutely hound people and institutions who fall below the minimum. Public shaming to the max.

The combination of both approaches, if you get the balance right--selective refusal to participate in a flawed system plus public hounding--can produce reform if there is enough force or pressure behind them.

The key thing is that norms enforcement has to be reasonable. It's not reasonable to say, "The norm with MMOs should be dynamically evolving worlds with emergent agent-based AI, deformable and destroyable terrain, innovative combat mechanics, superbly responsive customer service, and no retards playing the game". That's the dream. But it's completely reasonable to say, "Don't launch if you haven't figured out how to do billing" and "Don't launch if you don't know even the first thing about how to do customer service beyond hiring the extras from the movie 'Hostel'" and "Don't launch a subscription-based service if your game isn't at certain basic levels of functionality". It's necessary to hound people about it.

Now it's also true that recognizing this about HG:L should commend certain kinds of humility to schild, but that's a local thing. The general principle of schild's complaint is completely sound and it's important that people who have any interest at all in MMOs or video games in general be willing to throw rotten tomatoes and rocks when service providers and publishers get it very badly wrong.
Ubvman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 182


Reply #141 on: November 22, 2007, 01:23:10 AM

But when they can get you to pay $150 up front, there's no need for good CSR or billing.

Quote for Truth right there!!!  awesome, for real

Its all about the Benjamins (it is to them, if not to you as you claim).

And you say you want to resub, if they "fix" the problems? Oh, yes good move that... It kinda says that you will come back no matter how shittily they treat you - kinda on par with your typical MMOG CSR. Like crack addicts asking the dealer for their money back.
Nerf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2421

The Presence of Your Vehicle Has Been Documented


Reply #142 on: November 22, 2007, 02:00:22 AM

Eh? He's not asking for a refund because they have shitty CS, he's asking for a refund because of game-breaking issues they haven't addressed yet.  Them having poor customer service just happens to be the hijinks that ensued, not the root of the problem, so why wouldn't he come back once they fix the actual gameplay issues?

Reading is fundamental, mate.
Ubvman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 182


Reply #143 on: November 22, 2007, 06:34:56 AM

---Random stuff---

Reading is fundamental, mate.

Meh, whatever.

Its a front page fanboi incoherent rant, "WOMG! YOU SUCK! I QUIT NOW - I MEAN IT!".

Good luck with whatever your trying to accomplish.
lesion
Moderator
Posts: 783


Reply #144 on: November 22, 2007, 08:59:53 AM

Who lit the Alanis-Signal?

steam|a grue \[T]/
sinij
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2597


WWW
Reply #145 on: November 22, 2007, 11:13:36 AM

I am very glad that HG:L is so full of fail and that people are now being denied refunds. It is just simple bad practice to pay money upfront for something you are not sure about just based on promises, it encourages industry to crap in a box and try to sell it. As long as retards keep believing marketing this behavior will continue AND YOU PAID FOR IT.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 11:18:32 AM by sinij »

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #146 on: November 22, 2007, 12:33:07 PM

Its a front page fanboi incoherent rant, "WOMG! YOU SUCK! I QUIT NOW - I MEAN IT!".

I don't know what's incoherent about it. Try reading the paragraph that sums it all up if the rest is incoherent. I was pretty sure the whole thing was pretty clear, and in English to boot.

But here, let me talk slowly for you:

Fanbois rant about games.
I was ranting about the services supporting the game.
Xerapis
Contributor
Posts: 1473


Reply #147 on: November 22, 2007, 01:15:35 PM

So let me get this straight...

You invested your time and money and then they failed to make good on their promises to you and now you're pissed?

KARMAROFL

..I want to see gamma rays. I want to hear x-rays. I want to...smell dark matter...and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me...
Reg
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5270


Reply #148 on: November 22, 2007, 01:31:48 PM

Schild, you popped 150 bucks for a lifetime subscription to the game. Obviously you thought you'd be playing it for a good long while.  But now you've changed your mind because of a few little bugs during the first couple of weeks? Do you honestly think they aren't going to be fixed during the time you were planning to be playing the game?  And you're angry because a few things you thought would be exclusive to subscribers were extended to everyone too right? Do you really think the company isn't going to notice that and offer subscribers more goodies? They want people to subscribe...

And really, the customer service guys didn't do anything unusually bad either aside from sticking to a company policy that pisses you off.

To me it looks like a case of buyer's regret. You got the game, you played it and it wasn't as fun as you thought it would be and now you feel bad about blowing 150 bucks on it because you know you'll be bored with it long before you get your money's worth.
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #149 on: November 22, 2007, 03:34:55 PM

This is a key article about the "outsourcing of vital services" and I thank schild for all the brilliant work he has done here. I will be sure to reference it in my next university papers. The remarks about spelling and grammar are especially pertinent.
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #150 on: November 22, 2007, 03:38:54 PM

Oh, a correction (I seem to be confused): It's actually about the failure of the customer service department to fix game breaking issues. Or is it the responsibility of the developers.. no, it seems clear; the fault is with 'Marcus' and his minions!
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #151 on: November 22, 2007, 03:41:50 PM

Shit! I was wrong. There's all this stuff in here about something called a 'refund'. I looked it up and it seems to be some kind of 'reverse payment' system. It's all a bit technical, but the gist is that money that has been paid to a company will be returned to the customer. The number of dollars in question here seem to be 140. I think. It's hard to know. This article is dense and mysterious (yet amazingly coherent!).
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #152 on: November 22, 2007, 03:43:15 PM

Smartass Hat trick.
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #153 on: November 22, 2007, 03:46:41 PM

(Had to go for four)

I'm beginning to suspect the article is in fact a subtle work designed to highlight the follies of rabid fanbios who spend their money on unproven products, spend their energy championing flawed games, and then get incensed when these laughable train wrecks inevitably go off the rails. It's a fable on par with Aesop! What a brilliant moral tale!

Or is it? Oh dear. I need help. Someone. Anyone? Help! Too many meanings!
Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 15024

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #154 on: November 22, 2007, 04:17:52 PM

Psycho.

-Rasix
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #155 on: November 22, 2007, 04:33:31 PM

Cheddar
I like pink
Posts: 4987

Noob Sauce


Reply #156 on: November 22, 2007, 05:24:47 PM

Schild stuck his neck out to support a product, one which he believed in.  It probably convinced a few hundred people to jump the gun and order a life time sub; who knows how many bought the game due to his zeal (numbers completely made up, could be 1, could be 1,000). 

In the end he got burnt, and is feeling the anger.  Ironically the anger here has much more affect then happiness. 

Last time he felt the love was SWG. 

No idea where I am going with this, guess I should draw up a thesis with pie charts and shit.   

No Nerf, but I put a link to this very thread and I said that you all can guarantee for my purity. I even mentioned your case, and see if they can take a look at your lawn from a Michigan perspective.
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #157 on: November 22, 2007, 07:11:52 PM

Why plunk down $150 site unseen when you don't have to? That's the part I don't get. Nothing prevents you from playing the free version until you decide if you want to subscribe at all.

Buying a lifetime sub from the get-go is pure charity. It's like leaving a hundred dollar tip at a fifty dollar dinner.

The CS is only a problem because the underlying game and revenue model are both disasters. The fool and his money proverb do seem to apply here, especially given that this site is not for doe-eyed newbs who just got into gaming 2 weeks ago. Of course that doesn't make the complaints invalid. The product you bought is clearly defective.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Tet
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2


Reply #158 on: November 22, 2007, 07:52:12 PM

Or is it? Oh dear. I need help. Someone. Anyone? Help! Too many meanings!

I thought it was about the practice of having billing policies decided by the lowest rung of an outsourced company. Why else would he be ranting insanely at Marcus and friends?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 07:56:17 PM by Tet »
Bunk
Contributor
Posts: 5828

Operating Thetan One


Reply #159 on: November 23, 2007, 06:08:39 AM

Why plunk down $150 site unseen when you don't have to? That's the part I don't get. Nothing prevents you from playing the free version until you decide if you want to subscribe at all.

Buying a lifetime sub from the get-go is pure charity. It's like leaving a hundred dollar tip at a fifty dollar dinner.

The CS is only a problem because the underlying game and revenue model are both disasters. The fool and his money proverb do seem to apply here, especially given that this site is not for doe-eyed newbs who just got into gaming 2 weeks ago. Of course that doesn't make the complaints invalid. The product you bought is clearly defective.

I think the problem here, was that the lifetime sub was a "limited time offer", or at least that is how it came accross.

So Schild bought it because he loves the potential of the game. Then the game touched Schild in a bad place. Then Schild decided on a whim to try to get Ping0 to buy a lifetime sub from him or something. And then CSR Marcus touched Schild in a bad place. And then Schild ranted on it all. Then everyone at F13 misread his rant and touched Schild in a bad place. Me - I'm playing Mass Effect, wake me when this is over.

"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL
"I have retard strength." - Schild
Signe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 18942

Muse.


Reply #160 on: November 23, 2007, 07:35:19 AM

I would never touch any of you in any of your places.   

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
cmlancas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2511


Reply #161 on: November 23, 2007, 07:50:35 AM

 this guy looks legit

Or would you? I've seen some of your avatars.

f13 Street Cred of the week:
I can't promise anything other than trauma and tragedy. -- schild
Signe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 18942

Muse.


Reply #162 on: November 23, 2007, 01:07:30 PM

What is your point?  I would touch some of my avatars in their places?  Are you seriously comparing yourself with Absolut Hunk?   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #163 on: November 23, 2007, 08:24:15 PM

Yep.
UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064


WWW
Reply #164 on: November 23, 2007, 11:30:11 PM

And then Schild ranted on it all. Then everyone at F13 misread his rant and touched Schild in a bad place.

If everyone misreads your rant, your rant doesn't say what you want it to say.

As was, schild played the HGL beta, afaik. So he knew what was up and ponied up a lifetime sub on the basis the game has 'potential'. HGL still has the same 'potential', it's just also shown that the reality of the game may not ever reach it thanks to management issues.

On a broader level, the HGL lifetime sub fiasco may dissuade a lot of people from taking the step in the future. Players do have a right to be irritated when their lifetime sub incentives are given out to everyone.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 06:31:00 AM by UnSub »

tkinnun0
Terracotta Army
Posts: 335


Reply #165 on: November 24, 2007, 02:07:35 AM

Quote
Players do have a right to be irritated when their lifetime sub incentives are given out to everyone.

In this instance it was unavoidable. There are broken templates and no respec on the horizon, so pretty soon people would have had to start deleting characters just to make a viable template. And giving subscribers 200 character slots would be ridiculous. Makes perfect sense in hindsight.
geldonyetich2
Terracotta Army
Posts: 811


Reply #166 on: November 24, 2007, 02:16:51 AM

I figured the reason for giving everybody the 24 character slots was  because people who were canceling their subscriptions noticed their characters past the first three were deleted, not when their subscription lapsed, but immediately upon canceling it.  Or so I've read.  Thus, the change comes about as a fix to prevent that from happening because perhaps they couldn't figure out how else to preserve the characters.

Right now, there's not much reason to subscribe.  Hardcore mode and a few recipes - whoopee.  However, when they get around to adding some substantial downloadable content - new classes, new mission arcs, ect - then the subscription price will probably seem much more worth it.

(As for me, I never subbed to Hellgate... speaking of subscriptions, I should probably start logging back into Tabula Rasa one of these days.  Mass Effect has been dominating my time during the past few days, but I've nearly completed it.)
UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064


WWW
Reply #167 on: November 24, 2007, 06:32:35 AM

Quote
Players do have a right to be irritated when their lifetime sub incentives are given out to everyone.

In this instance it was unavoidable. There are broken templates and no respec on the horizon, so pretty soon people would have had to start deleting characters just to make a viable template. And giving subscribers 200 character slots would be ridiculous. Makes perfect sense in hindsight.

The dev team can justify the decision, but when you've forked out extra only to find out that everyone else gets it for free, you are bound to feel ripped off.

rk47
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6236

The Patron Saint of Radicalthons


Reply #168 on: November 26, 2007, 06:20:11 PM

Burgergate Waitress: for 50 cents more you get a large drink and fries. LIMITED TIME OFFER ONLY!
Customer1: awesome, for real I'll take it! *plinks 50 cents on the counter* *grabs tray of food sat down to eat, watch another fella makes his order*

Burgergate Waitress: good news sir! now you get a LARGE drink and fries with every meal you order at no extra charge. So what'll it be?
Customer1: ACK!
Customer2:  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440

2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


WWW
Reply #169 on: November 27, 2007, 08:10:44 AM

I give a 9.8 for smiley-usage.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Morfiend
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6009

wants a greif tittle


Reply #170 on: November 27, 2007, 12:53:51 PM

ponied up a lifetime sub on the basis the game has 'potential'.

Wasnt the whole SWG debacle due also to "potential"?.

I think from now one, every time Schild says a game has potential, we all take a HUGE step back.
geldonyetich2
Terracotta Army
Posts: 811


Reply #171 on: November 27, 2007, 12:54:31 PM

Careful there, Schild, you're pulling my aggro.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #172 on: November 27, 2007, 01:00:42 PM

I think from now one, every time Schild says a game has potential, we all take a HUGE step back.

Once again, I would like to remind everyone that all those people who took a huge step forward with the SW:G NGE debacle need to learn how to read.
Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19212

sentient yeast infection


WWW
Reply #173 on: November 27, 2007, 01:30:54 PM

Did somebody say twitch?

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
geldonyetich2
Terracotta Army
Posts: 811


Reply #174 on: November 27, 2007, 03:02:51 PM

No, but my avatard is twitching is a most disturbing manner.
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  News  |  Topic: Failgate London or “Why You Don't Outsource Important Services.”  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC