Champions Online: The No-NDA Merged Edition

[Bandit]

Dude get the sand out of your vagina.  Read the first part of my post, they are working on it.  Plus they have given out 3 full free retcons already, and they have lowered retcon purchases in-game.  Are you new to MMO's? If you think "balance" is achieved in beta in any MMO, then you are very mistaken.  At least you have the option to completely redo a character, which in 90% of games you have no option but to suck it up with class changes.

[Tmon]

I can't see myself buying anything at the C store, I'm not against micro-trans but if I'm paying $15 dollars a month I don't see any reason to give them more money.

[tazelbain]

Fire and forget, diku MMO with sub and store.  Woot.  Worst of all worlds.

[Bandit]

I am becoming to Champions what gutboy barrelhouse is to SWG.

I have a couple of 14-day trial buddy keys if anyone is interested.  Just send me a PM.

[taolurker]

I would like to take a chance to see this after beta.

What i did see was not that worthwhile during beta, but I would like to see how it's changed. I wrote a beta impression in the Corp forum, that I'd like the opportunity to retract or say I told you so with.

[Lantyssa]

I am becoming to Champions what gutboy barrelhouse is to SWG.

That's really not a good thing.  Given you are aware of this predicament I suggest bailing before it's too late.

[Khaldun]

See, the thing that's bad about microtransactions on some of these things is the moral hazard they present to developers. If you set a fee that's very nearly a month's subscription revenue for a full retcon, for example, and you hold the line hard on not giving free retcons, it's very nearly an invitation to frequently change the basic functionality of powersets/character abilities if you've already given up on retaining anything but a very small, intensely loyal core of players. In fact, this is arguably the way you stay in the black if you think you've got a playerbase that won't give up no matter what you do to them: keep giving them a reason to pay a double or triple sub-price without appearing as if that's what you're purposely doing.

Microtransactions for frills is one thing: microtransactions for mechanics which are central to gameplay are another. The latter open up temptations even to dev teams that are doing their best to make the best possible product. As Tazelbain said, this is especially the case if you're already charging a premium subscription fee.

[Lantyssa]

Worse, even if the devs are against it, the option becomes available to the suits who only view players as numbers.

[Bandit]

That's really not a good thing.  Given you are aware of this predicament I suggest bailing before it's too late.

I guess, but the thing is I don't see it that way....I am having fun with it.  I feel the need to play and follow development, which I haven't for MMO in a while.  I am broken it seems.  Are there problems? for sure with out a doubt.  Buggy quests, laggy lemuria, lack of real teaming options, and lack of content (although I really only found that around level 30-33).  The combat is fun, and that is the #1 appealing factor for me as it stands.  The superb character creation is icing on the cake for me.

See, the thing that's bad about microtransactions on some of these things is the moral hazard they present to developers. If you set a fee that's very nearly a month's subscription revenue for a full retcon, for example, and you hold the line hard on not giving free retcons, it's very nearly an invitation to frequently change the basic functionality of powersets/character abilities if you've already given up on retaining anything but a very small, intensely loyal core of players. In fact, this is arguably the way you stay in the black if you think you've got a playerbase that won't give up no matter what you do to them: keep giving them a reason to pay a double or triple sub-price without appearing as if that's what you're purposely doing.

Microtransactions for frills is one thing: microtransactions for mechanics which are central to gameplay are another. The latter open up temptations even to dev teams that are doing their best to make the best possible product. As Tazelbain said, this is especially the case if you're already charging a premium subscription fee.

Your concern is understood, and concur that microstransactions could become a nickel and diming situation esepcially considering there is a subscription.  I just want to point out that I haven't really needed to retcon at all thus far, I guess I have been lucky that they haven't fundamentally changed any of my characters.  Free retcons is a sticky situation though.  Let's say they gave them out in LOTRO - I could basically take my max level captain and make him a max level minstrel, for $12 bucks or for free because they changed a captain skill (which they have made fundamental changes to captain skills in LOTRO).  You don't see the issue here from a business standpoint? Most games don't even have this option and you have to roll with the punches, start an alt or quit. However, since CO has the option people cry foul with a sense of entitlement.

[Malakili]

I guess, but the thing is I don't see it that way....I am having fun with it.  I feel the need to play and follow development, which I haven't for MMO in a while.  I am broken it seems.  Are there problems? for sure with out a doubt.  Buggy quests, laggy lemuria, lack of real teaming options, and lack of content (although I really only found that around level 30-33).  The combat is fun, and that is the #1 appealing factor for me as it stands.  The superb character creation is icing on the cake for me.

This is pretty much how I am looking at CO right now.  I enjoy playing.  I don't feel compelled to play 24 hours a day, but I do enjoy playing a couple hours every other day or so.  Good enough for me right now, especially since there isn't much else MMO wise that I feel like playing right now.  I mean, I like EVE a lot, but I don't have the time to devote to it right now anyway.

[Lantyssa]

If you're having fun then that's great.  You're getting your money's worth.

It only becomes a problem when you espouse its virtues without being able to see and discuss any of its flaws.  That's the difference between my (and several others') love of the old SWG and our resident player whom you were concerned about becoming.

[caladein]

Price dropped to $40 on Steam and for the boxed copy at GameStop.  Hell, Amazon has it at about $35.

Countdown-to-bargain-bin GO!

[Khaldun]

A monthly subscription for an awesome character creator strikes me as a sub-par deal. YMMV, but I'd say that about a furry too.

 

_kinda

[Nonentity]

There was an email circulating around at work about two weeks after launch that had it discounted to $5.00 at a Gamestop.

[Kageru]

Dude get the sand out of your vagina.  Read the first part of my post, they are working on it.  Plus they have given out 3 full free retcons already, and they have lowered retcon purchases in-game.

They didn't even attempt to balance powers in beta. Leaving it to live, especially with a massive power-nerf on launch day, removes any sympathy I might have had for these guys. The fact they reduced retcon doesn't change the fact they reduced it from insane to punitive. If it were translated into hours of gaming for a full retcon you'd have Aion players grimacing. Making it so they can profit from their incompetence is just the wrong direction entirely.

The core problem is their respec system is broken by design. When they change power effects you have to pay increasing costs to respec out of each power bought since you made that decision. And in the case of something like movement powers or superstats that's really early in a character development. Thus they can't differentiate between the FotM switchers (though that's their balance problem too) and those correcting one nerfed power purchased early, they both look like a full respec. If they'd actually allow you to pay an increasing amount per power modified but freely select which power is modified first the system would not be so broken, they wouldn't have to be giving out free respecs and the C-store could go back to being a useless addition for ugly vanity pets.

That said, it's pretty irrelevant. The possibility of CO maturing into something interesting is marginal.

[Bandit]

If they'd actually allow you to pay an increasing amount per power modified but freely select which power is modified first the system would not be so broken, they wouldn't have to be giving out free respecs and the C-store could go back to being a useless addition for ugly vanity pets.

I definitely agree that's how it should work.  Hopefully that is how it evolves.  They didn't even have full retcon developed until 1 or 2 weeks into live, so maybe they are moving towards that.

[UnSub]

I also still like ChampO, but the game has a number of significant flaws that probably will never be shaken out. But if only they could get the graphics working correctly on my PC on anything other than safe mode. If only.

I also find it interesting in comparing to the Aion (?) thread where the discussion is on what to do when everyone can heal. ChampO (especially post-Blood Moon) has part of that answer. It also helps provide an answer to "what happens in a game without classes?". Answer: balance nightmare. Although I certainly wished for more control in being able to build your own powers, I can only imagine how badly that system would have been abused in ChampO.

[ezrast]

I'm not a proponent of skill-based systems, but to be fair this particular balance nightmare was more a matter of "Cryptic can't balance" than "classless systems can't be balanced." Remember when they changed their spreadsheets and sent the changes to live without anybody looking at the actual powers affected?

[Khaldun]

It's a bad collision between "developers who are pretty amateurish about live management" and "system to which the normal logic of balancing doesn't really apply very well".

[Tannhauser]

Not sure what they did but the game is more fun to play now.  Aggro radius seems lessened and mob hit points seem reduced.  I can actually fight three mobs without another group of three mobs rushing in.  Big to me.  However, there is a slight 'hitch' when I move the camera.  It's small but it's annoying.  I am spoiled by the butter smooth performance of WoW. 

Loot seems abundant and useless.  I hate upgrading mystic items on my science/power suit guy, seems goofy.  I have canceled but thanks to a neat trick they do I got charged for another month.  So I will cancel again but will keep an eye on the game, it does have potential. Yeah I said it. 

[Numtini]

That didn't take long:    

Play for Free, All Weekend

From Friday, October 30th, until Monday, November 2nd, come play Champions Online ... for free! Check out the plethora of changes to the game, including new missions, new powers and the free Blood Moon content update.

Check out our free weekend promotional page on the official Champions Online website to get started.

[Khaldun]

I think they need to look up "plethora" in the dictionary.

[Lantyssa]

I think they need to look up "plethora" in the dictionary.

Given how often they changed things in late beta it's probably applicable...

[Malakili]

Blood Moon patch is out.  Its actually pretty decent. 

[Furiously]

Free trial on steam this weekend.

[Slyfeind]

I have no desire to log on and check it out. How sad.

[Kovacs]

I'm simply wondering how long it took them to design a movement system that is actually more annoying than click to move.  Maybe it's becasue I'm a left handed mouser but fuck moving and looking around is just horrific. 

[Malakili]

I'm simply wondering how long it took them to design a movement system that is actually more annoying than click to move.  Maybe it's becasue I'm a left handed mouser but fuck moving and looking around is just horrific. 

Its pretty much like every other MMO I've seen? 

[Pennilenko]

Its pretty much like every other MMO I've seen? 

Other MMOs don't charge you cash to fix  mistakes. Yours or theirs.

[Malakili]

Its pretty much like every other MMO I've seen? 

Other MMOs don't charge you cash to fix  mistakes. Yours or theirs.

What has this got to do with him complaining about the movement system?

[Bandit]

Its pretty much like every other MMO I've seen? 

Other MMOs don't charge you cash to fix  mistakes. Yours or theirs.

Other MM0s don't give you the option, you have to suck it up.  CO gives you the option, and you still bitch. 

I second the movement issues, how is it any different than every other MMO?

Seriously, there are a lot of things wrong with CO...but retcon and movement are non-issues as far as I am concerned.

Bloodmoon is pretty solid.  My only gripe being the 13 undead heroe crypts...two maps rotated between all 13.  The BITE (hunter-werewolf PVP) is pretty fun.

[Kovacs]

I can't get the damn camera to stay over the shoulder with mouselook options.  I stays facing the same direction regardless of character facing.  How is that like every other mmo?That and the old TR wonder of not being able to move forward with inventory open.  Wonderful.

[Sjofn]

I can't get the damn camera to stay over the shoulder with mouselook options.  I stays facing the same direction regardless of character facing.  How is that like every other mmo?That and the old TR wonder of not being able to move forward with inventory open.  Wonderful.

Unless something broke with Bloodmoon, neither of those issues ever happened to me when I played CO (I am not currently playing because I am trapped on a laptop until mid November. :(((((( ).

[Slyfeind]

Wow, for serious? Did it default to locking the camera during movement? Because mine would bounce back to over-the-shoulder, and I couldn't find a way to change that.

[Malakili]

I can't get the damn camera to stay over the shoulder with mouselook options.  I stays facing the same direction regardless of character facing.  How is that like every other mmo?That and the old TR wonder of not being able to move forward with inventory open.  Wonderful.

I haven't had either of these problems.