Champions Online: The No-NDA Merged Edition

[Modern Angel]

I totally agree. But beyond a couple lightly busted quests I've not found any bugs. I wish I had; that would change things. But as it is it's a slightly under inspired but fun superhero romp.

[Cyrrex]

To be fair - has any MMO ever been on par with a really good single player RPG?  I'd vote no, personally.  I'm sure there's some really deep Why Do People Even Bother With Shite MMOs In The First Place argument to be made here.  

[Montague]

Yeah shoddy isn't a word I would use - I've had one hard lock in 20+ hours of play and no major bugs (other than maybe the respec cost one.)

Less ambitious might be more applicable, and since they didn't have Paul Barnett douche-nozzling everyone into thinking this was the next robot jesus I'm ok with that.

[Typhon]

Put me in the "what bugs?" camp.  I just haven't had any problems.

Also, crappy single player games ship all the time.  Just look in "Is it Fun" for a list of crappy single player games that some folks, for some reason, find fun and continue to play.  There's an ass-load of single player games that ship and people say they suck and then they move on.

For some reason MMOs tend to get more hate.  Maybe it's because they are more expensive and take longer to make.

[Morfiend]

To be fair - has any MMO ever been on par with a really good single player RPG?  I'd vote no, personally.

I would say that the Wrath of the Lich King expansion was the first to do so. But thats an expansion, not a brand new birth.

[Nebu]

The first time I subbed to CoX, I lasted 3 months.

The second time, 2 months.

The third... 2 weeks.

The fourth... 4 days.

CO held me for about two weeks.  I see where this is heading. 

[Signe]

The last time I subbed to CoX, I logged in ONCE!     I played CO for a few days, maybe a few hours all told.  I have the game but I haven't even logged in for the head start.  It's not motivating me at all. 

[Venkman]

For some reason MMOs tend to get more hate.  Maybe it's because they are more expensive and take longer to make.

Because the early days of MMOs had a constant feedback loop between developers and the community, as an extension of the even early MUD days. Find any other genre that had that direct dialog. They're all too mature to allow players the belief they are part of the design process.

And that's come to MMOs as well, at least the successful ones. A community is best when it's tasked with tweaking an assumption. But the opportunity is only best when the assumption is correct in the first place. The filtering process is getting better at preventing good money from being thrown at bad ideas (far from perfect of course). And the rise of that filter is inversely proportional to how involved your average forum poster is to the creation process.

[Ghambit]

Signe said the appropriate word:  "Motivation."  When playing it I had trouble figuring out what the game was missing, but that's pretty much it.
You just have no real motivation to do anything, unless you're itchin for that next round of grind-quests.  The itemization sux and there are no real engrossing questlines or instance dungeons that make you want to get better.

And therein to me lies the problem with ChampO.  I mean, if you can hang in there until endgame and pray they inject interesting content - fine.  But, I shouldnt have to tear my hair out in the lvl grind to do-so.  If the itemization was more meaningful perhaps it'd take up the slack, but it's not and the economy is largely nonexistent.  So meh.   Reminds me of Tabula Rasa actually.

Fun shoot em up for a while, but it'll taper off seriously after 1 month.
Is it worth the box price to be able to have the supers toolset??  probably.  A sub?  not so much.

[Morfiend]

Fun shoot em up for a while, but it'll taper off seriously after 1 month.
Is it worth the box price to be able to have the supers toolset??  probably.  A sub?  not so much.

It would be if there was a Bo Staff weapon option right, right? 

[Ghambit]

Fun shoot em up for a while, but it'll taper off seriously after 1 month.
Is it worth the box price to be able to have the supers toolset??  probably.  A sub?  not so much.

It would be if there was a Bo Staff weapon option right, right?  

Alas, even a Bo staff isnt worth a sub. fee.
btw; is the 1st month free or not?

[UnSub]

First 30 days is part of the box cost, afaik.

[Sky]

What's my motivation, man??

[Amaron]

Jack did it again .    Day 1 and they just released a patch that has probably outdone Enhancement Diversification for overall nerfage.    Forums are asploding.   I want to feel outraged but it's just so damn funny.

[Yegolev]

Do you mean like this?  Because I can't read all of that.  The last page definitely calls for rolling back the patch, though.

[Yegolev]

I found this and I see what is going on now.  CO is Warhammering itself, apparently.

[Lantyssa]

Can I say, "I told you so," yet or should I wait a little while?

[Yegolev]

Might as well get it in now while anyone cares about the game.

[Amaron]

Can I say, "I told you so," yet or should I wait a little while?

I think you should give Jack and Roper a bit more time to dig this hole deeper.  I'm betting the Dev response to criticism will be epic for at least another day.  Then you can really grind it in when you say it.

[Murgos]

Could someone of stronger fortitude than I post a few of the more choice examples?

These little blow-ups are really why I even follow MMO's any more.

[chargerrich]

I am not an alt guy- I want to level up ONE guy and use him.

God I WISH I was this way... My WoW career equates to:

* 4 Accounts
* 7 level 70-79s
* 4 level 80s
* 0 level 80s in full Tier 9 gear

 


Fake Edit: Can I still get a lifetime sub or are they gone?

[dEOS]

CoX subscriber for 53+ months... I know. Still subscribed. It's still cool and I have a bunch of high-levels that play very differently. Quite bored on the level grind though.
I picked up CO and took a lifetime subscription. I need a change of pace, see new faces and more importantly new sceneries.

Major issues I have with the current state of the game:
- interface is fugly fugly fugly... and borderline unreadable with its pretend-comicsbook look
- Supernatural/regeneration is a must-have power. So broken, it's not even funny. My character took it after a respec. From super-gimp (DB/LightningReflex), I became instantly super mega powerful (DB/Regen). I only have one problem now, I am careless about aggro when before I was cautious about 2 mobs packed together. A nerf is due on this power... but that would bring everyone back to gimpness.
- Crafting is cryptic (ahah!)
- Everybody is basically soloing, no teaming incentive (see /regen comment) at least pre-level 20. Seems to change later on as /regen becomes less powerful. Makes for leveling a support toon from the ground up a difficult endeavor.
- Non-forum readers will have a hard time figuring out the game (cryptic!)

On the other hand, it has neat things going for it:
- one server, even if heavily instanced
- 3 languages support from the ground up (I am French, started playing with the EN interface, recently switched to French)
- lots of costume options
- quests are quite original (based on my WoW/CoX/AC1/AC2 experience)
- lots of activity going on around you

Edit: Apparently, nerfs and boards outrage ongoing. Grab popcorn.

[Montague]

I haven't played yet today (still at work) but some sort of nerfage was necessary.

Fight Club is supposed to be a level 17 instance recommended for 3 people. My wife (hardly a minmaxer) is a Might tank and I'm Fire DPS with a splash of healing at level 17, so we tried it with just the two of us. We started off being careful by using LOS pulling and me holding back to allow her to get sufficient aggro, etc. But after the first two pulls she just dove in and I AOE'd the shit out of everything. The only death was when we thought we had cleaned the place out and I found a stray supervillain in a side room that she couldnt taunt off me. Even then I just rezzed, came back to the fight, healed her and then blasted everything dead.

Out in the open I just open up with energy builder and then Conflagrate. Anything short of Master Villain level is dead within 3 seconds. And a fire DPS build with Fireform was supposed to be one of the weaker builds.

So yeah, anyone with a smidge of MMO experience had to know something like this was coming.  

[Morfiend]

Wow THIS is an insane amount of nerfing with no real testing. Also offering no respec to people is just beyond stupid with these massive changes.

*edit*

I was fully planning on buying this today, now I dont know if I will. I liked that it was very fast paced and easy to pick up and put down.

[Ghambit]

Fight Club's problem has nothing to do with the uber/nerfness of a player.  It has everything to do with the stupidity of the level.  Mobs are too weak and the level too short and bland.  And no matter how difficult something is, if you allow them to respawn 2 feet away with no penalty - there's just no challenge nor reason to even group (or even to go into the instance in the 1st place... just fuckin delete the mission)

It just turns into a grind instance.  errrr a grindstance
The act of walking/flying/jumping to the instance door is more exciting than the actual mission.     So why even do it?

edit:
wait wait wait, did I read correctly that they nerfed QUEST-SHARING??  Are they for real?  Seems you can no longer share quests!   

[rattran]

It looks a lot like the first year of CoH nerfs, all scrunched together. And isn't beta where sweeping changes are supposed to be, not between open beta (marketing) and launch? I wonder how much nerdrage it will generate in the people who shelled out for lifetime or 6 months.

[Ghambit]

LMAO
I sowiee... I gotta post again.  They... nerfed... quest-sharing  LMAO

And with basically no possibility of soloing, long spawncamp queues, and a large chunk of quest objectives unshareable, this is just classic.  Moreso since the chat UI and grouping mechanics suck ass. 

[Ard]

 

Roper brings the best drama.  I'm glad I'm zero for two on his latest wrecks.  Oh hey, both of which had lifetime options.

[Arrrgh]

It's an improvement over CoH. At least they didn't make people grind to the level cap and THEN nerf them to uselessness.

[Modern Angel]

No, I find out literally as I walk in the door from buying it. Well, I wasn't expecting more than a month anyway.

[Ghambit]

What's even more funny is they're not giving free respecs. heheheheh
It'd be funnier if they did this like a week from now though.  In reality, it's not that painful to just reroll a toon at this point.  But now, you're just turned into a pigeon-holed mix-maxer in order to effectively play the game it seems.  And for a Champions IP designed around a 4-color supers premise (rather than gritty), it kinda defeats the purpose.

[Modern Angel]

Most of the people I'm playing with are saying it's really not terrible, even warranted in some spots like Personal Force Field. I reserve judgment until I can see for myself.

[Ghambit]

I'm sure it's "really not terrible" for a lot of people, but for the gross majority it'll be bad.  e.g. your casual MMOer who wants to make/do whatever they want and survive.  Regardless, making that many changes at that point is really just hilarious.  In a way though, since it's obvious they were planning to do it regardless... they were forced to do it how/when they did because if they waited there would be even more hell to pay.

[Cyrrex]

For someone who doesn't want to or can't click on any of the links to their forums, does this amount largely to a major xp nerf, or a nerf of powers across the board?  You've probably already said and I'm just missing it.

[Morfiend]

After more reading it really seems like people are more upset about no respec, and I cant blame then, although it is pretty funny that people went through beta, and figured out all the powers that where overpowered and lumped them together in one build, and then didnt expect to get nerfed.

I do agree though, making huge changes like this with no possibility to respec is fucking stupid, especially right after the headstart. I would imagine that atleast 30% of those people will end up rerolling today.