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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: Carbine Studios' "Wildstar" 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Carbine Studios' "Wildstar"  (Read 979301 times)
Venkman
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Reply #1155 on: November 27, 2013, 09:06:37 AM

Does that really sound like the kind of thing you want to chance a $40-100mm investment on?

It's not really a chance, though. At the point the game comes to the public beta stage, you're committed and the costs are sunk. Gamers today are still collectively stupid with purchasing decisions, but they are also collectively savvier on this particular genre due to the series of games that didn't fully deliver in the last 5-6 years.

People are less likely to just jump into a game if you keep it in the dark. I think you run more of a risk keeping it quiet than you would showing the process of how you are fixing concerns. You play to the media, and make it better.
Oh I know. I'm just lamenting that it became this way. Most other genres don't get this level of shit before launch, and only occasionally this level of investment.

I agree with Threash that the NDA may be offset by the clever marketing Wildstar has received. NDAs are kinda dumb without self-imposed policing. But that's as much tradition as the idea of transparent feedback between devs and players, which hasn't been the case since the first generation of MMO dev fled the scene.
Paelos
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Reply #1156 on: November 27, 2013, 09:50:49 AM

If devs don't even respond to posts on the beta forums, and i mean actually respond, not create a new topic to blast the group, then i think a beta is a waste of time. If you want to market the game, do it. If you want to fix the game, read and react.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Nebu
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Reply #1157 on: November 27, 2013, 10:38:27 AM

If devs don't even respond to posts on the beta forums, and i mean actually respond, not create a new topic to blast the group, then i think a beta is a waste of time. If you want to market the game, do it. If you want to fix the game, read and react.

I think that read and react is becoming increasingly difficult due to white noise.  Especially when the white noise is oblivious to the fact that they are, indeed, white noise.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Evildrider
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Reply #1158 on: December 03, 2013, 03:56:55 PM

Might want to check your emails.   NDA
01101010
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You call it an accident. I call it justice.


Reply #1159 on: December 03, 2013, 04:46:40 PM

Might want to check your emails.   NDA

 Mob

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
luckton
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Reply #1160 on: December 03, 2013, 06:59:24 PM


"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Paelos
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Reply #1161 on: December 03, 2013, 07:00:40 PM

I don't think I signed up for this, but still.  Mob

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Ghambit
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Reply #1162 on: December 03, 2013, 07:31:49 PM

I filled out that stupid beta survey and everything!   Mob

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Sjofn
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Reply #1163 on: December 04, 2013, 03:51:05 PM

Late to the riot, but

 Mob

God Save the Horn Players
Father mike
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Reply #1164 on: December 04, 2013, 04:58:35 PM

Add another to the Mob squad.



I would like to thank Vladimir Putin for ensuring that every member of the NPR news staff has had to say "Pussy Riot" on the air multiple times.
Samprimary
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Reply #1165 on: December 05, 2013, 08:04:41 AM


Signe
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Muse.


Reply #1166 on: December 05, 2013, 11:51:52 AM

GET HIM!!!

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #1167 on: December 05, 2013, 01:38:25 PM

  Yahoo! Yahoo! Raspberry Raspberry Woot! Eat





*realizes that he will be away from his main comp all the weekend, with only a meager Asus netbook to keep him company*




" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Ghambit
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Reply #1168 on: December 05, 2013, 02:06:34 PM

 Yahoo! Yahoo! Raspberry Raspberry Woot! Eat





*realizes that he will be away from his main comp all the weekend, with only a meager Asus netbook to keep him company*





Get into the holiday spirit and donate to the needy.


"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Falconeer
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a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country


WWW
Reply #1169 on: December 05, 2013, 02:31:48 PM

Looks like they are going Italy first Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Ghambit
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Reply #1170 on: December 05, 2013, 05:54:08 PM

If you're pining for WOW 1.0, Wildstar is the game for you. According to dev interviews and if you read in between the lines Wildstar will be WOW++ 1.0 in terms of how things are set up.

Well, no, burned out on that model. I am a typical stupid customer: I don't know what I want before I see it. Well, I sort of do... UO 2.0, but that's not going to happen. So really anything that brings back the old magic of "I can't wait to get home to log on!" "No more staying in bed, I need to get up an play!!".

You have to remember that once Burning Crusade hit, things changed drastically for those folk invested in WoW vanilla (like me).  Burnout occurred largely because of that; none of us wanted to re-enter the level treadmill, and none of us wanted our current gear and rep-grinds rendered moot... not to mention, none of us really wanted to re-organize into small(er) raids.

The key for Wildstar will be maintaining vanilla WoW with just enough sandboxey SWG-ish community play.  Any content should be iterated onto the end w/o sacrificing previous content...  unlike what Blizz did.

#dons flame-retardant suit

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #1171 on: December 06, 2013, 09:28:06 AM

So your answer to beating WoW is content progression with no catchup mechanisms? Hope I don't have to go into the obvious problems with that on F13.
Threash
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Reply #1172 on: December 06, 2013, 09:44:09 AM

I think the fact that EQ expansions did not make all the endgame content of previous expansions obsolete was one of the best things about it, and doing that was a huge mistake for wow.  Content is the most valuable resource in this industry, you can't throw it away.

I am the .00000001428%
Pennilenko
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Reply #1173 on: December 06, 2013, 09:48:32 AM

Is there really people here that still love this sort of MMO that actually want to be in the beta? If so, I find it hard to believe.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Falconeer
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WWW
Reply #1174 on: December 06, 2013, 10:12:57 AM

This stress test beta weekend is nothing more than a few hours long. Still, there's apparently some up for sale on eBay around the 40 euros mark.

Paelos
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Reply #1175 on: December 06, 2013, 10:19:16 AM

I think the fact that EQ expansions did not make all the endgame content of previous expansions obsolete was one of the best things about it, and doing that was a huge mistake for wow.  Content is the most valuable resource in this industry, you can't throw it away.

New content is the most valuable resource. Old content is garbage. I'll point you directly to Cataclysm, which revamped the entire world leveling experience, and didn't increase numbers or even hold ground after 3 months.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Draegan
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Reply #1176 on: December 06, 2013, 10:43:02 AM

I think the fact that EQ expansions did not make all the endgame content of previous expansions obsolete was one of the best things about it, and doing that was a huge mistake for wow.  Content is the most valuable resource in this industry, you can't throw it away.

New content is the most valuable resource. Old content is garbage. I'll point you directly to Cataclysm, which revamped the entire world leveling experience, and didn't increase numbers or even hold ground after 3 months.

That's a poor analogy because when old content is irrelevant or it's rewards are irrelevant it becomes garbage. Make those rewards more relevant for more than a day or a few hours then you might have something.
Threash
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Reply #1177 on: December 06, 2013, 11:11:23 AM

I think the fact that EQ expansions did not make all the endgame content of previous expansions obsolete was one of the best things about it, and doing that was a huge mistake for wow.  Content is the most valuable resource in this industry, you can't throw it away.

New content is the most valuable resource. Old content is garbage. I'll point you directly to Cataclysm, which revamped the entire world leveling experience, and didn't increase numbers or even hold ground after 3 months.

Content is only old to the people who have done it.  My EQ guild was usually 1-2 expansions behind on end game content and we had no problem with that, in fact we still had plenty of competition for it.

I am the .00000001428%
Paelos
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Reply #1178 on: December 06, 2013, 11:17:39 AM

You honestly believe people enjoy running their buddies through the old crap just to get them ready to do the new crap because one guy quit?

While I don't necessarily believe you should immediately skip everything mid-xpac, especially with LFR available now in Wow, the idea you'd have to still be running MC 8 years later is asinine.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Draegan
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Reply #1179 on: December 06, 2013, 11:36:25 AM

You honestly believe people enjoy running their buddies through the old crap just to get them ready to do the new crap because one guy quit?

While I don't necessarily believe you should immediately skip everything mid-xpac, especially with LFR available now in Wow, the idea you'd have to still be running MC 8 years later is asinine.

Who said 8 years later? I think if you spend enough time on the problem you could find some interesting solution to keep previous expansion heroics/raids gear relevant. But it wouldn't work the way WOW is set up where heroics are just uber grinds that you repeat through every 20 minutes over and over again. Because by the 100th time you've done some troll dungeon you never, ever want to do it again.

It'll take a different game system to do that that isn't WOW or Wildstar.
Paelos
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Reply #1180 on: December 06, 2013, 11:43:37 AM

What system would allow that where it wasn't a punch in the nuts?

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Ghambit
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Reply #1181 on: December 06, 2013, 11:44:43 AM

Where is it writ that you have to run MC 8 yrs. later?   Head scratch    Also, I knew quite a few large guilds that ran it "for fun" quite regularly even though they were farming Naxx.  Guildie puts the raid on the schedule, if 20+ (I believe they were able to 20-man some of those old raids eventually) sign up, ding... you have a raid.  Farm the mats, teach the newbs, whatever.

Also, quite often we ran for guildmates.  Wtf other reason is there to raid?  For yourself?  Makes no sense.  If everyone in a guild simply ran raids for themselves, you'd effectively never be able to actually raid.  There has to be a certain amount of worldbuilding to make it work.  It's the same deal in sandbox games like SWG or Eve.  You can't have every last person be a "special snowflake" who do nothing but Need phat lootz.  It's give and take.

Shit, the mage's (council) in my guild eliminated DKP because it was gimping our DPS as we were moving through content.  We needed capable bodies, so the gear went to where it made the most difference... not to where there were the most points.  Since it was something we tracked, it became something we could all be proud of even though we might not be wearing the piece... because our effective group DPS grew by orders of magnitude.


"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
KallDrexx
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Reply #1182 on: December 06, 2013, 11:47:20 AM

GW2 accomplishes that just fine.  You were rewarded for going back into old level zones and completing hearts and world completion, the dungeons started at 35 (I believe) but you still did them even after you got to 80, etc...
Ghambit
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Reply #1183 on: December 06, 2013, 11:51:08 AM

edit:
Is there 'invite a friend' with the beta invites? (if so, GIMME ONE)  I cant believe I'm not in this stress test and I've been following this thing since it was a pencil-drawing.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Threash
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Reply #1184 on: December 06, 2013, 12:01:29 PM

You honestly believe people enjoy running their buddies through the old crap just to get them ready to do the new crap because one guy quit?

While I don't necessarily believe you should immediately skip everything mid-xpac, especially with LFR available now in Wow, the idea you'd have to still be running MC 8 years later is asinine.

I'm telling you i personally felt the EQ system of not making old content obsolete was way better than the WoW system after having played both extensively.

I am the .00000001428%
Paelos
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Reply #1185 on: December 06, 2013, 12:23:10 PM

It also led to a system where only a small percentage of players were using the content, while others quit because of the cockblocks.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Draegan
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Reply #1186 on: December 06, 2013, 12:31:42 PM

I understand you're playing WOW again so you have your WOW blinders on but there are other ways to making video games.

I'm not to create a design doc here, but if you create a system that slows down the rate of character power growth then you can easily keep old raid/dungeon content relevant. What if your expansion didn't add additional levels, but just added more content! Levels are stupid anyway.

You can slowly update older content with new drops, additional bosses, new sections of the dungeons while either nerfing or modifying old encounters so they aren't as boring.

Old equipment can become useful to new classes, new specs, new builds or whatever. You can use old gear in a different kind of crafting system maybe?
Paelos
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Reply #1187 on: December 06, 2013, 12:37:03 PM

I also don't think regressing back to the dark ages of MMOs is somehow going to spawn a new, enlightened customer base. WoW worked because the proved the way EQ did it was not grabbing enough people. It was billed and packaged that way.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Venkman
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Reply #1188 on: December 06, 2013, 01:41:50 PM

Exactly. This idea that years-old endgame dungeons can be relevant years into the life of an MMO is as old school as the idea of leveling pace tapering off the closer one gets to the endgame. No way players will stand for that.

But aside from theorycrafting long dormant game systems redux, there's a deeper issue:

MMORPGs are tapering off. The players leaving WoW aren't going to other MMOs. There's a whole lot of lack of accurate numbers we could argue about, but my measure is simpler than that: the number of high profile MMOs not being made.

The mid-2000s are over, and they're not coming back. There's a confluence of factors, from the rise of mobile to the decline of PC gaming, the number of high profile underperforming high investment highly publicized MMOs, and the lack of any susbstantially successful console MMO in an age when even consoles as a business are in question.

Having said all that, we could very well regress to the dark ages of MMOs if for no other reason than the only players left are the ones who actually want that kind of game.
Falconeer
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Reply #1189 on: December 06, 2013, 01:50:56 PM

About rergression, FF14 is an insane step back and somehow it seems like it's doing good. Which is interesting.

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