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Author Topic: Carbine Studios' "Wildstar"  (Read 979483 times)
Draegan
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Reply #1120 on: November 10, 2013, 06:05:22 AM

If you're pining for WOW 1.0, Wildstar is the game for you. According to dev interviews and if you read in between the lines Wildstar will be WOW++ 1.0 in terms of how things are set up.
calapine
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Reply #1121 on: November 10, 2013, 06:31:25 AM

If you're pining for WOW 1.0, Wildstar is the game for you. According to dev interviews and if you read in between the lines Wildstar will be WOW++ 1.0 in terms of how things are set up.

Well, no, burned out on that model. I am a typical stupid customer: I don't know what I want before I see it. Well, I sort of do... UO 2.0, but that's not going to happen. So really anything that brings back the old magic of "I can't wait to get home to log on!" "No more staying in bed, I need to get up an play!!".

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Miasma
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Reply #1122 on: November 10, 2013, 06:45:04 AM

If you're pining for WOW 1.0, Wildstar is the game for you. According to dev interviews and if you read in between the lines Wildstar will be WOW++ 1.0 in terms of how things are set up.

Well, no, burned out on that model. I am a typical stupid customer: I don't know what I want before I see it. Well, I sort of do... UO 2.0, but that's not going to happen. So really anything that brings back the old magic of "I can't wait to get home to log on!" "No more staying in bed, I need to get up an play!!".
That's pretty hard to get now, it's mostly an age and either wisdom/cynicism type effect.  After you've played MMOs for too long you start to see all the treadmills and rehashed patterns and it ruins the experience.  You can have brief flashes of "I can't wait" when a new MMO is released and you start burning through content alongside other excited people but it won't be long before you remember it's all the same thing and stop playing once the content is consumed.
Draegan
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Reply #1123 on: November 10, 2013, 07:20:30 AM

Pretty much. Once you can see the matrix, the fun wears off. That's why I probably won't have fun in an MMO for more than a few weeks again until they upgrade the tech so it's not all:

Level 1 > Zone 1 > Quest A..Z > Level 10 > Zone 2 > Dungeon 1 > Quest A..Z > .. > Max_Level > Zone 10 > Quest A..Z > Heroic Dungeon  > Raid

It'll be when the whole world is dynamic and reactionary and none of it is static. GW2 and EQN talked a big game, I'll believe it when I play it.
Venkman
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Reply #1124 on: November 10, 2013, 07:36:08 AM

I always wonder how many people trained on MMOs really want a dynamic ever changing world though? Like, I think I personally do, but let's face it, the concept is anathema to the model.

How often do we want to figure something new out just to get to that next level/skill/weapon upgrade? How often do we want to piece together clues in order to solve a riddle? Aren't we programmed to find the most efficient path through a sequence of achievements we optimize so well we eventually become thrilled at the prospect of a 10% chance that 25% of the drops from a mob we have a 50% change of defeating will be useful to us? And for those not into that don't we prefer to get our "chance encounter" from other players we then bitch about cheating or playing overpowered FoTM templates on forums?

Over a decade of iterating on EQ concepts has lead to this point, and away from where things could have gone. Every non-EQ-y thing from a true player economy to housing and vibrant crafting has had some excuse associated with its lack of mass acceptance. "Too complicated", "too inconsistent", "too many resources on the wrong things", "too derivative", "I don't like just being a spaceship".

But it all comes down to market forces. What are consumers going to buy. What we've been buying is EQ clones straight on down the line. We* keep buying them, so why should they stop making them?

* The proverbial [large enough to make a market size] "we", not we here, though some of us still do  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Falconeer
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Reply #1125 on: November 11, 2013, 05:24:43 AM

So this is something WoWy, Neverwinter online is decidly meh and F13 forum consesus is pretty unimpressed with ESO as well. (Hope I got that right?)

So if I want to develop a serious poop-sock MMORPG addiction like the one caused by Vanilla WoW in 2004 there is not much hope in 2014?

EverQuest Next.
But yeah, I know how you feel and I think it is safe to say that at least for the next five years nothing will grab us like that again. Maybe someday, in a distant future, something that pushes some boundaries through insane amounts of unpredictable content, and some new technology. I still believe the next life-ending massively multiplayer game will be a sandbox, the biggest ever. One that will literally try to invade our real lives.

Draegan
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Reply #1126 on: November 11, 2013, 05:42:30 AM

I always wonder how many people trained on MMOs really want a dynamic ever changing world though? Like, I think I personally do, but let's face it, the concept is anathema to the model.

How often do we want to figure something new out just to get to that next level/skill/weapon upgrade? How often do we want to piece together clues in order to solve a riddle? Aren't we programmed to find the most efficient path through a sequence of achievements we optimize so well we eventually become thrilled at the prospect of a 10% chance that 25% of the drops from a mob we have a 50% change of defeating will be useful to us? And for those not into that don't we prefer to get our "chance encounter" from other players we then bitch about cheating or playing overpowered FoTM templates on forums?

Over a decade of iterating on EQ concepts has lead to this point, and away from where things could have gone. Every non-EQ-y thing from a true player economy to housing and vibrant crafting has had some excuse associated with its lack of mass acceptance. "Too complicated", "too inconsistent", "too many resources on the wrong things", "too derivative", "I don't like just being a spaceship".

But it all comes down to market forces. What are consumers going to buy. What we've been buying is EQ clones straight on down the line. We* keep buying them, so why should they stop making them?

* The proverbial [large enough to make a market size] "we", not we here, though some of us still do  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

If it's a fun game, then no one will care about the different formula. It's as simple as that.
Paelos
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Reply #1127 on: November 11, 2013, 08:30:24 AM

Better combat options with a more dynamic world would appeal to a large set of MMO players that have played WoW and clones already over and over.

The problem so often with MMOs now is they claim to be new and different, but they change 1-2 things from the WoW formula while the rest is the same. You have to take the risk to change it all, which is something nobody was willing to do for the last 5 years with the economic outlook. Now? We're getting to the point where risk is starting to be a viable action for large returns.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
luckton
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Reply #1128 on: November 11, 2013, 11:12:12 AM

For those interested in the beta, a survey email went out about 10 days ago for the winter beta they're doing.  They posted on FB today that the email they used to send out the surveys was not the ordinary email they use, and many spam filters may have blocked it. 

The survey doesn't guarantee a spot, but they'll prioritize those that do fill out the form.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

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Ingmar
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Reply #1129 on: November 11, 2013, 11:36:15 AM

I'll try this, but the combat design makes me leery and probably ultimately means I won't be pulled away from SWTOR.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
01101010
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Reply #1130 on: November 11, 2013, 12:26:51 PM

For those interested in the beta, a survey email went out about 10 days ago for the winter beta they're doing.  They posted on FB today that the email they used to send out the surveys was not the ordinary email they use, and many spam filters may have blocked it. 

The survey doesn't guarantee a spot, but they'll prioritize those that do fill out the form.

Definitely blocked on my gmail account. Thanks for the heads up.

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Dark_MadMax
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Reply #1131 on: November 11, 2013, 04:01:21 PM

I, "I don't like just being a spaceship".


You also forgot the part that "being a spaceship" comes with as fun watching paint dry combat. eve could been so much more if it had an iota of actual game in there
Samprimary
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Reply #1132 on: November 15, 2013, 05:18:40 AM

I'm so happy that the obligate chibi short thing race is sinister, evil, and on the evil side.

Maybe their traditional diet is gnomes, tarutaru and lalafell.
Nebu
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Reply #1133 on: November 24, 2013, 01:12:42 PM

Any sort of pseudo-release date scheduled?  I can't seem to find much.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Falconeer
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Reply #1134 on: November 24, 2013, 02:04:36 PM

EQ Landmark goes into closed (paid) beta in March 2014. That is ALL we know. Release (of Landmak, not Next) is to be expected 3 to 6 months after that. Anything else is pure speculation, even if it comes from SOE's sources. So basically the answer is: no pseudo-release date at all.

Wrong thread.  swamp poop
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 01:07:17 AM by Falconeer »

Rasix
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Reply #1135 on: November 24, 2013, 02:08:05 PM

wat

Wrong thread, guy.

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luckton
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Reply #1136 on: November 25, 2013, 04:37:15 AM

Any sort of pseudo-release date scheduled?  I can't seem to find much.

Spring/Summer 2014 is the current window.  Have to see how their December beta-fest goes.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Nebu
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Reply #1137 on: November 25, 2013, 08:05:17 AM

Spring/Summer 2014 is the current window.  Have to see how their December beta-fest goes.

Thanks.  I had assumed Spring 2014, but wondered if that may a bit ambitious.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
luckton
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Reply #1138 on: November 25, 2013, 08:24:49 AM

I would love Spring, but something about this project makes me think they'll take a more conservative approach if they run into too much trouble and do a Summer release to ensure a good first impression.  A lot of these Carbine guys are ex Warhammer/WoW/other MMO guys, just like Trion.  They seem to get the whole "you only get one good shot to make or break your game, so fucking get it right the first time" thing.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Pennilenko
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Reply #1139 on: November 25, 2013, 08:53:25 AM

I can't wait for the NDA to drop. Argh!

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Bzalthek
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Reply #1140 on: November 25, 2013, 11:16:17 AM

I only see NDA as a negative these days.  It does nothing.  They say it's to protect their leet new innovations but A) no one has leet new innovations and B) even if they did, the competition out there is too incompetent to capitalize on it.

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Malakili
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Reply #1141 on: November 25, 2013, 11:19:26 AM

I only see NDA as a negative these days.  It does nothing.  They say it's to protect their leet new innovations but A) no one has leet new innovations and B) even if they did, the competition out there is too incompetent to capitalize on it.

Well, you forgot the obvious other reason:  It allows them to build hype based on promises and bullet points instead of their actual game.
Ingmar
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Reply #1142 on: November 25, 2013, 11:22:01 AM

It has a place during the sausage-making part of game development; random folks getting a look at when everything is half-done and broken will generally mostly generate negative buzz. See: the sky-is-falling contingent around the Hex alpha.

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Draegan
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Reply #1143 on: November 25, 2013, 12:23:39 PM

If you watch the weekly streams, it really shows off the game as much as you could really want outside playing it yourself.
Paelos
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Reply #1144 on: November 25, 2013, 02:28:41 PM

It has a place during the sausage-making part of game development; random folks getting a look at when everything is half-done and broken will generally mostly generate negative buzz. See: the sky-is-falling contingent around the Hex alpha.

Yes, but it doesn't have a place when you're less than six months from release. Nothing will change fundamentally in that time.

If an NDA on the beta is still in place at that point or especially in the quarter prior to the game coming out? It's a disaster.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Venkman
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Reply #1145 on: November 25, 2013, 02:50:26 PM

I've long been opposed to any type of public beta for a game outside of server optimizing stress tests. But unfortunately they've been tradition so long, not having one raises too much negative PR.

These things cost as much as movies, and a beta can only tell you that you were either colossally wrong about something fundemantal enough you can't fix, or it can help you tune a marketing message on the backs of your most interested fans burning out on the game before they need to pay for it.

And all along the way the online conversation about your game spinning out of control because "NDA" carries about as much weight to private information as "public beta" does to the design phase of a game. Nothing you learn in a late beta is going to let you actually get back to the drawing board on the fundamentals, no matter how agile you think your process is.

Does that really sound like the kind of thing you want to chance a $40-100mm investment on?

So all in all, unless you are goddamned sure you've made all the right decisions that result in robot jesus ariving in a perfect kismet of culturally relevant zeitgeist and development genius, keep the players away until they're willing to pay something.
Paelos
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Reply #1146 on: November 25, 2013, 04:25:45 PM

Does that really sound like the kind of thing you want to chance a $40-100mm investment on?

It's not really a chance, though. At the point the game comes to the public beta stage, you're committed and the costs are sunk. Gamers today are still collectively stupid with purchasing decisions, but they are also collectively savvier on this particular genre due to the series of games that didn't fully deliver in the last 5-6 years.

People are less likely to just jump into a game if you keep it in the dark. I think you run more of a risk keeping it quiet than you would showing the process of how you are fixing concerns. You play to the media, and make it better.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
kildorn
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Reply #1147 on: November 25, 2013, 06:24:26 PM

It has a place during the sausage-making part of game development; random folks getting a look at when everything is half-done and broken will generally mostly generate negative buzz. See: the sky-is-falling contingent around the Hex alpha.

Yes, but it doesn't have a place when you're less than six months from release. Nothing will change fundamentally in that time.

If an NDA on the beta is still in place at that point or especially in the quarter prior to the game coming out? It's a disaster.

Well, nothing SHOULD change drastically 6 months out. I've been in quite a few betas that have completely ripped entire systems out and replaced them with completely different shit in shorter timeframes.

That said, the NDA really should drop soon even if the release is thinking summer of next year. Even from a pure marketing perspective, the longer you keep the NDA up as your beta program presumably grows, the more internet buzz around your game turns into silence as more and more people can't share opinions anymore.
Paelos
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Reply #1148 on: November 25, 2013, 08:01:07 PM

You could rip out the crafting system, or the skills system, or something like that.

I don't think they can overhaul combat in 6 months. Maybe I'm wrong.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Samprimary
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Reply #1149 on: November 26, 2013, 03:29:41 PM

There's a specific threshold at which an overly prolonged NDA is just making everything worse anyway, and also obviously is fulfilling the same premise as is used by studios who opt out of releasing their movie for critic pre-release screenings.

Basically the most visible people who are leaking out of the seams of your increasingly depressurizing NDA shield are the ones going YEA FOKKIT IT SUCKS
Nebu
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Reply #1150 on: November 26, 2013, 08:21:55 PM

Basically the most visible people who are leaking out of the seams of your increasingly depressurizing NDA shield are the ones going YEA FOKKIT IT SUCKS

I could say _____ MMO sucks without ever participating in the beta and I would be right over 90% of the time. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Spiff
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Reply #1151 on: November 27, 2013, 12:19:16 AM

It's more entertaining if you have specifics, a self-righteous attitude and scream a lot though.
Samprimary
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Reply #1152 on: November 27, 2013, 08:15:55 AM

Quote
I could say _____ MMO sucks without ever participating in the beta and I would be right over 90% of the time.

And the contingent of game supporters and indefatigable fanboys that every shitty MMO that won't work has are disproportionately inclined to not break nda

SO eventually you're just making shit worse for your shitty game with an NDA. They can buy you some time. Not a lot.
Nebu
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Reply #1153 on: November 27, 2013, 08:33:45 AM

And the contingent of game supporters and indefatigable fanboys that every shitty MMO that won't work has are disproportionately inclined to not break nda

SO eventually you're just making shit worse for your shitty game with an NDA. They can buy you some time. Not a lot.

You're right.  A good game core will market itself.  An NDA just opens the door for speculation and ill will.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Threash
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Reply #1154 on: November 27, 2013, 08:44:18 AM

I don't think the NDA hurts that much when you have good marketing like this game has.  But something like TESO that doesn't have weekly devspeaks highlighting all the positive aspects of your game is left only with the negative feedback all the people who don't give a shit about breaking the NDA give.

I am the .00000001428%
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