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Author Topic: Carbine Studios' "Wildstar"  (Read 979438 times)
Rendakor
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Reply #630 on: August 04, 2013, 10:46:35 AM

Not only did CoH have great character customization, but you could also change the visual effects of your powers. For weapon builds this wasn't a huge deal, but being able to change the colors of your blasts and such was awesome.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Evildrider
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Reply #631 on: August 04, 2013, 12:19:39 PM

So about that Wildstar...   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Malakili
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Reply #632 on: August 04, 2013, 12:46:55 PM

Not only did CoH have great character customization, but you could also change the visual effects of your powers. For weapon builds this wasn't a huge deal, but being able to change the colors of your blasts and such was awesome.


Champions Online basically did all of that stuff.  Although their direction has been to add more costume parts on the store (not giving players a way to design/sell costumes), and comic book style content releases which have been too few and far between.  Kind of surprising given STO and NW having the content creation tools that they haven't applied it to CO yet, you think that might be the most obvious place of all to have it.


But since this is a Wildstar thread, I guess I'll just try to bend it back to that topic by saying at least they seem to have an interesting housing system.
Fordel
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Reply #633 on: August 04, 2013, 05:16:14 PM

It's all under NDA still right? We can only say we like/dislike the artstyle so many times.  why so serious?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Venkman
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Reply #634 on: August 05, 2013, 08:02:19 PM

Yea that's really what killed it. iirc CoH was the first MMO to peak early and then see a cliff of subscriptions shortly after. And yet they stupidly kept to their Vision of grind. This was completely at odds with their premise of crazy levels of customization coupled with action-y comant.

Eventually all their cool concepts did appear in other games, but it tooks years. And all the while I lament on what CoH/V coulda been.

Such a waste.

CoH had more or less stable subscription numbers for YEARS, I am pretty sure they never fell off a cliff the way something like WAR did.
It was one of the first MMOs to launch big and fall off considerably iirc. Yea it's common now for games to launch and then shed players and resources, and nobody's ever launching a subs-based game again. And MMOs are a dime a dozen, all over mobile devices, launching with multiple revenue models, peaking early and then getting dustbinned within months.

But back then, MMO subs started low and incrementally grew and core MMO gamers were still thinking the next MMO was going to be the last one they'd ever need. We're talking a decade ago, less than a year since SWG had launched and then half a decade of subs games all hail mary'ing into f2p or closing outright. I mean back then the idea of an MMO closing? Very different world smiley

Games that are still around all eventually stabilized. But success after shedding resources for the players you ended up with is different than successfully delivering to the market you thought you'd have in the first place. It's only "failure" if your game/company are no longer around. But it's "success" that has features which get emulated.

Oh and on topic: Wildstar graphics r gud
Samprimary
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Reply #635 on: August 05, 2013, 08:15:16 PM

Not only did CoH have great character customization, but you could also change the visual effects of your powers. For weapon builds this wasn't a huge deal, but being able to change the colors of your blasts and such was awesome.

Yeah, I want that sort of customization to be done more often.

I know why they DON'T usually do it, but I still want them to.
Ghambit
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Reply #636 on: August 05, 2013, 09:44:48 PM


"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Typhon
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Reply #637 on: August 06, 2013, 05:44:46 AM

"The best gear in the game will come from 40-man raids. It will be entirely unique."

I'm out.
Nebu
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Reply #638 on: August 06, 2013, 06:54:15 AM

"The best gear in the game will come from 40-man raids. It will be entirely unique."

Look... 2005 is back!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Evildrider
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Reply #639 on: August 06, 2013, 07:03:01 AM

There has to be some incentive to do 40 mans as the devs have said that it's supposed to be super "kick you in the nuts" hard.
Nebu
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Reply #640 on: August 06, 2013, 07:13:20 AM

There has to be some incentive to do 40 mans as the devs have said that it's supposed to be super "kick you in the nuts" hard.

As if cat herding wasn't hard enough.

Do people really enjoy spending hours trying to defeat an encounter because 2-3 mouth-breathers don't know to get out of the fire and waste the time of 30 others? 

Slot machines.  Meh.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 07:19:38 AM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Ghambit
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Reply #641 on: August 06, 2013, 07:35:45 AM

I've seen people all over the world physically organize into large groups to attack, claim, defend, and link imaginary portals opened by errant higgs bosons.    So, clicking "I will attend" on a Wildstar raid scheduler doesn't seem so ludicrous.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Zetor
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Reply #642 on: August 06, 2013, 07:39:52 AM

Quote
There will be something similar to raid attunements that players will have to work through in order to prepare themselves for raiding.
2005 indeed.

e: also, notResilience and notPVPPower on pvp gear, along with a gear progression system that's pretty much like WOW was at its worst (have to play arenas to get the best gear, and you bet it'll be heavily gear-based). Oh well, they still have time to change their minds, I guess.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 07:45:19 AM by Zetor »

Nebu
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Reply #643 on: August 06, 2013, 07:45:49 AM

I've seen people all over the world physically organize into large groups to attack, claim, defend, and link imaginary portals opened by errant higgs bosons.    So, clicking "I will attend" on a Wildstar raid scheduler doesn't seem so ludicrous.

Organizing 40 people interested in a niche != organizing 40 people in a mass market game.  You did play WoW and EQ, right?  Many among WoW's playerbase needed a freaking MOD to get through encounters in less than an evening.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Pennilenko
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Reply #644 on: August 06, 2013, 07:48:30 AM

Organizing 40 people interested in a niche != organizing 40 people in a mass market game.  You did play WoW and EQ, right?  Many among WoW's playerbase needed a freaking MOD to get through encounters in less than an evening.
Even with the mods a great many people still cannot do the content.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
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Reply #645 on: August 06, 2013, 08:00:03 AM

Ahahahah, I can't believe the devs are stupid enough to think the 40-man raid thing will last very long.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Miasma
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Stopgap Measure


Reply #646 on: August 06, 2013, 08:05:03 AM

Jesus, 40 man.  Without any sort of lfr to get those numbers.  Idiots.
Ghambit
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Reply #647 on: August 06, 2013, 08:09:09 AM

They have LFD though; is that not the same thing as LFR?

edit: Personally, I think it's smart to dip into hardcore largescale raids.  Dont feel like arguing the reasons why right now though.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 08:22:57 AM by Ghambit »

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
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Reply #648 on: August 06, 2013, 08:53:33 AM

I wonder how good their metric gathering is.

Any takers on how many raids with like 0.00005 of the population completing or even looking at them it will take before someone decides that maybe it's a waste of development time and art assets, even if it's all divergent from the main storyline?

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Nebu
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Reply #649 on: August 06, 2013, 08:54:20 AM

They have LFD though; is that not the same thing as LFR?

edit: Personally, I think it's smart to dip into hardcore largescale raids.  Dont feel like arguing the reasons why right now though.

I'd still like to hear your perspective.  Don't let my bile discourage you.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Draegan
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Reply #650 on: August 06, 2013, 08:55:17 AM

Most of you here are super casual nancies, but there is a demand for harder raiding encounters. I've been saying this for a while now, but this game is WOW Vanilla++. I also find it hilarious that, given all the content that is supposedly in this game, that you can't get the best gear in PVE that makes you quit.

They said that PVE and PVP gear will be separate, so who knows if we should believe them or not, but take that for what it worth.

You guys cry too much anyway. I won't be doing 40 man raids, but I'll be playing the game because it looks fun.
Draegan
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Reply #651 on: August 06, 2013, 09:02:59 AM

They have LFD though; is that not the same thing as LFR?

edit: Personally, I think it's smart to dip into hardcore largescale raids.  Dont feel like arguing the reasons why right now though.

I'd still like to hear your perspective.  Don't let my bile discourage you.

I'll answer that question from my perspective. Games need layers, in my opinion, to make players keep coming back. In Wildstar PVE it'll be the gear from raids to shoot for. In League of Legends it's chancing your Bronze-Silver-Gold etc. rank. In PVP games it's ranks and ladders and other shit. This gives the player a sense that the game is not finished and still holds more for you. Maybe it even gives you an air of mysticism.

Contrast that with WOW where there is 3-4 difficulty levels for raids, different numbers and in the end, the content is basically the same. You see the same boss, the loot is the same except that it's got better +gooder stats and the coloring and textures are different. When you can finish the hardest raid encounter in the game, no matter the difficulty, you feel like you finished the game. Most people won't feel the rust to do it on LFR then Normal then Heroic. Most people don't even beat single player videos games let alone on 2 or 3 difficulty settings. Same thing with MMOS.

So if you want to use the old carrot on the stick argument, or a psychological one about keeping the game open ended, or always presenting a challenge; there is a reason why there should be very difficult content in a game that is exclusive to people who are "skilled" (loaded word) enough to do it.
Nebu
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Reply #652 on: August 06, 2013, 09:17:58 AM

"The best gear in the game will come from 40-man raids. It will be entirely unique."

I have no problem with there being raids in the game.  My problem comes from making it mandatory content for character development.  If it's the only way that I can complete my character's progression, then I either have to do it or live with a less than best-in-slot toon. 

Why are devs so against alternate advancement pathways?  Choice is good.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Draegan
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Reply #653 on: August 06, 2013, 09:37:49 AM

There are other ways, supposedly, to advance your character. However the best gear in the game comes from the big raids. You'll have to live with that I guess if you decide to play the game.
Nebu
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Reply #654 on: August 06, 2013, 09:46:32 AM

There are other ways, supposedly, to advance your character. However the best gear in the game comes from the big raids. You'll have to live with that I guess if you decide to play the game.

I understand.  It's just disappointing.  I sometimes feel like a kid wanting to ride the rollercoaster but can't because I'm not big enough.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Typhon
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Reply #655 on: August 06, 2013, 09:47:23 AM

"The best gear in the game will come from 40-man raids. It will be entirely unique."

I have no problem with there being raids in the game.  My problem comes from making it mandatory content for character development.  If it's the only way that I can complete my character's progression, then I either have to do it or live with a less than best-in-slot toon. 

Why are devs so against alternate advancement pathways?  Choice is good.

Yep, completely agree.

"There has to be some incentive to do 40 mans as the devs have said that it's supposed to be super "kick you in the nuts" hard." 

There is.  It sounds something like this, "Our raid beat this ultra-hard raid and we have this awesome cosmetic thingee to prove it!  The awesome cosmetic thingee even has a number in it that shows where we were in the list - we were the third guild on our server to drop Humongous Rex!"

Another line of thought I have no patience for - "you don't NEED this equipment!".

Yes I do, because I want it.  If your game won't give me, a player that only wants to play with people that I like playing with, equal footing in core design systems to folks who will put up strangers I'll keep looking for a game that will.  Thus the, "I'm out".
Nebu
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Reply #656 on: August 06, 2013, 09:49:27 AM

Apparently it's too much work to generate 'ultra-hard' 5-man content.   swamp poop

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Typhon
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Reply #657 on: August 06, 2013, 09:56:51 AM

Most of you here are super casual nancies, but there is a demand for harder raiding encounters. I've been saying this for a while now, but this game is WOW Vanilla++. I also find it hilarious that, given all the content that is supposedly in this game, that you can't get the best gear in PVE that makes you quit.

They said that PVE and PVP gear will be separate, so who knows if we should believe them or not, but take that for what it worth.

You guys cry too much anyway. I won't be doing 40 man raids, but I'll be playing the game because it looks fun.

Because I've done this too many times before.  There is always a point in these games where having the best gear is an obvious advantage.  I need look no further than, "World PvE events".  The try hard is going to be the one that can survive the big breath (or whatever) while the scrubs choke it down immediately.  The try hard is going to be higher in the damage done, healing done, etc, and the rich get richer.  In a game fundamentally about gear, isolating the best gear to a small section of your player base is not a design I care for and it will color my perception of all my playtime.

Did that.  Not interested.  I don't in any way resent those that like this type of game-play - there is plenty of competition out there, I'm happy for anyone that gets a game that they like.

Why I care about this game is because I really like the marketing they put in for house building (not actually having seen the housing, I only have the marketing to go on).  I like public-style quests in addition to solo questing and dungeons.  I just don't care for raids.  Too much time, too many self-absorbed personalities, too much drama.

[Edit: making for less incomprehensible sentences and why I cared about this game]
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 10:05:36 AM by Typhon »
Nebu
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Reply #658 on: August 06, 2013, 09:58:42 AM

I am definitely not 'casual' when I play MMO's.  I just am adverse to other people wasting my time.  Finding 40 people that I want to spend my gaming time with seems like a Herculean task.  Hell, finding 5 people I can tolerate in voice chat for more than a few minutes is tough enough.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #659 on: August 06, 2013, 10:05:59 AM

Most of you here are super casual nancies, but there is a demand for harder raiding encounters. I've been saying this for a while now, but this game is WOW Vanilla++. I also find it hilarious that, given all the content that is supposedly in this game, that you can't get the best gear in PVE that makes you quit.

They said that PVE and PVP gear will be separate, so who knows if we should believe them or not, but take that for what it worth.

You guys cry too much anyway. I won't be doing 40 man raids, but I'll be playing the game because it looks fun.

Because I've done this too many times before.  There is always a point in these games where having the best gear is an obvious advantage.  I need look no further than, "World PvE events".  The try hard is going to be the one that can survive the big breath (or whatever) while the scrubs choke it down immediately.  The try hard is going to be higher in the damage done, healing done, etc, and the rich get richer.  In a game fundamentally about gear, isolating the best gear to a small section of your player base is not a design I care for and it will color my perception of all my playtime.

Did that.  Not interested.  I don't in any way resent those that like this type of game-play - there is plenty of competition out there, I'm happy for anyone that gets a game that they like.

[Edit: making for less incomprehensible sentences]

I was never the try hard in EQ, yet on a regular basis, I was the biggest damage dealer in raids and group outings. It can be done without being "that guy" but it's hard and honestly, a bit counter-productive to cater to the catasses.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Threash
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Reply #660 on: August 06, 2013, 10:07:33 AM


I am the .00000001428%
Ingmar
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Reply #661 on: August 06, 2013, 11:19:06 AM

There are other ways, supposedly, to advance your character. However the best gear in the game comes from the big raids. You'll have to live with that I guess if you decide to play the game.

I understand.  It's just disappointing.  I sometimes feel like a kid wanting to ride the rollercoaster but can't because I'm not big enough.

Except you actually can ride the rollercoaster, you just don't want to wait in line.

EDIT: Which I can understand, I don't want to wait in line either. 10-12 is about the most number of players I want to deal with basically ever. Unless the gear impacts something competitive, though, and the rest of the game is fun, I can ignore the missing +5 on my stats or whatever.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 11:21:47 AM by Ingmar »

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Nebu
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Reply #662 on: August 06, 2013, 11:25:23 AM

Except you actually can ride the rollercoaster, you just don't want to wait in line.

Fair enough.  Though it's probably more accurate to say that I don't want to pay the high ticket price (i.e. the time and aggrivation investment).

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Zetor
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Reply #663 on: August 06, 2013, 11:29:14 AM

I don't care about the 40man raid loot (though I do find it amusing, along with the return of attunements... yeah, 2005 all right), but I do care about the proposed pvp gear system. PVP gear progression, two pvp gear stats, best pvp gear only available if you do arenas... yea. I played that game a few times, don't really want to play it again.

Ghambit
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Posts: 5576


Reply #664 on: August 06, 2013, 11:49:29 AM

They have LFD though; is that not the same thing as LFR?

edit: Personally, I think it's smart to dip into hardcore largescale raids.  Dont feel like arguing the reasons why right now though.

I'd still like to hear your perspective.  Don't let my bile discourage you.

I'll answer that question from my perspective. Games need layers, in my opinion, to make players keep coming back. In Wildstar PVE it'll be the gear from raids to shoot for. In League of Legends it's chancing your Bronze-Silver-Gold etc. rank. In PVP games it's ranks and ladders and other shit. This gives the player a sense that the game is not finished and still holds more for you. Maybe it even gives you an air of mysticism.

Contrast that with WOW where there is 3-4 difficulty levels for raids, different numbers and in the end, the content is basically the same. You see the same boss, the loot is the same except that it's got better +gooder stats and the coloring and textures are different. When you can finish the hardest raid encounter in the game, no matter the difficulty, you feel like you finished the game. Most people won't feel the rust to do it on LFR then Normal then Heroic. Most people don't even beat single player videos games let alone on 2 or 3 difficulty settings. Same thing with MMOS.

So if you want to use the old carrot on the stick argument, or a psychological one about keeping the game open ended, or always presenting a challenge; there is a reason why there should be very difficult content in a game that is exclusive to people who are "skilled" (loaded word) enough to do it.

I love it when someone types exactly what I wanted to say, w/o me actually having to type.  It's like having my own slave.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
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