Patch day for 2.2 shaping up to be quite interesting....

[Simond]

Just to bring everyone up to speed, 2.2 is the much-delayed 'content' patch with no content other than bugfixes, balance changes...and integrated voice chat.

Or maybe not: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1602361123&sid=1

We have recently revised our schedule for the activation of voice chat following the patch release. On patch day, all realms will launch with voice chat disabled. This is to allow for any further testing or changes that may be required. The following day we will enable voice chat on the realms listed below. With further testing at that point, and should things go smoothly, we will enable voice chat the following day on additional realms, or potentially all realms. This schedule is of course likely to change should the testing periods show any issues that will require additional time to resolve.

Anyone else read this as "Our bespoke voice chat (which required rewriting our entire sound engine from scratch) still isn't working properly but we're up to four months without a patch to we're going to put it live anyway and hope for the best" ?

[Merusk]

Pretty much, yeah.  This entire process has probably been a series of "Oh, crap, so that's why most folks ignore it and leave it to 3rd party apps" for Blizzard.  I'm sure they'd like to hold off until it's actually viable but the Joke's on them, since they have a definite timeline to work against.

 "What timeline," you ask?  Well, they've got to get this patch, 2.3 which has been mentioned as a rogue/ pally tweaks (that I've seen), a patch for season 3 soon, a patch for Zul'Aman and Sunwell Plateau to get out before WOtLK is released.  At this rate, Sunwell would be out about 30 days before the x-pack if the x-pack were still a year away.   Sure, some of those could be combined but I doubt S3 is coming out in 2.3, and Sunwell/ Zul will be separate patches, so that's at least 3 right there.

[Simond]

Judging from the sudden (and recent) change from "2.2 will stay on test until we're happy with it" to "It goes live on a rolling start and we'll yank it if/when it breaks", I'd speculate that someone at Blizzard got told by a higher-up to push it live within a month or it doesn't go live at all.

I'd further speculate that this whole "integrated voice chat" is the pet project of someone, much like the first iterations of meeting stones.

2.2 live next week, 2.3 on test the week after (post-Blizzard killing voice chat for utter failure/rollbacks/server explosions), 2.3 live within 4-6 weeks. Rumour has it that 2.3 is pretty much complete & internally tested already, and just needs external testing.

[Jayce]

I'd further speculate that this whole "integrated voice chat" is the pet project of someone, much like the first iterations of meeting stones.

That's the best speculation I've heard so far.  This voice chat thing is the first true and unmitigated bonehead idea that I've seen out of Blizzard.  A case can be made for the LFG system, the meeting stones, and all the other failures, but as even my old daddy could have told them, "if it ain't broke, why fix it?"

[Modern Angel]

I guess the good news is that this patch, this one right here, has finally broken me of my WoW habit. I think. I log on to say hi to guildmates but I already told them I'm not coming back until ZA is released. Which is... oh, god, six months from now at this rate? At BEST? So by that time I have Conan, WAR and PotBS to choose from potentially... yeah.

For comparison, EQ2 in the amount of time that the TBC has released, what? Six patches and we're a month shy of an expansion pack? There's Blizzard's glacial patching process and then there's this monstrosity.

[caladein]

I really don't get the dislike for integrated voice chat. I can already see a use for it with a dedicated healer channel. To do it via TS would either require updating whisper keys on every group set-up change, and it can't be done in Vent at all (Phantoms are listen-only, available only to Admins, and take up a slot).

[Simond]

I really don't get the dislike for integrated voice chat.

Picture Barrens chat over your headphones, spoken in stereotypical nasal teenaged geek vocal intonations.

[Numtini]

In the three months or so that I played LOTRO, one and only one group ever used the integrated chat thing. I got more invitations to private vent/ts servers in PUGs. It's a nice idea, but it's a lot of work for something that seems on the whole to not get a lot of use.

[Fabricated]

I tested it on the Test Realms and when the server was up it worked pretty damn well. The quality was between TS and Ventrilo, which is pretty good. TeamSpeak fucking sucks, and I'd be happy to get rid of it. As much as I dislike the idea of having to listen to breathy-nerd #75133, everyone having voice will make pugging Heroics much easier (and give people who come to raids no excuse not to have it on to at least listen).

I don't think their solution is technically broken, I think they're not sure if they can provide the bandwidth for it.

[raydeen]

I really don't get the dislike for integrated voice chat.

Picture Barrens chat over your headphones, spoken in stereotypical nasal teenaged geek vocal intonations.

Tune in to WCNR! : WoW Chuck Norris Radio! All Day! Everyday!

[Morfiend]

Honestly, I think they had to add it.

As it stands right now, to compete in end game PVE or PVP, you absolutly HAVE to have voice chat. It is a must. This is giving people who shell out for a vent (or TS, yuck) server a hugh advantage over those who dont. With the evolution of MMOGs, this was a necessary step. Now, I think that most medium and large guilds will still keep Ventrilo, but this does a lot to even the playing field. Hell, I am looking forward to being able to communicate in BGs.

I really do think that they should have pulled VoIP from 2.2, and went live with the bug fixes (3 pieces of loot per boss from TK and SSC. YES PLEASE!) and stuff a while ago, as I agree that they are on a major timetable.

2.3 is going to be Zul'Amen and probably Season 3.
2.4 is going to be more tweaks, and probably a Zul'Amen nerf.
2.5 will be the Sunwell.

I think my projection of November 2008 for WotLK is looking better and better. Oh yeah, Sunwell is going to be the next Naxxramas. Only like 5% of players will ever kill more than 1 boss, and then it will be lamented as being an awesome instance that most people didnt see. It will then be brought back in the 4th expansion World of Warcraft: The Screams of the Dying God Champion, and retuned for level 110 characters.

[Morat20]

I fully expect Hunters to be fixed in patch 3.4.

[Modern Angel]

Honestly, I think they had to add it.

As it stands right now, to compete in end game PVE or PVP, you absolutly HAVE to have voice chat. It is a must. This is giving people who shell out for a vent (or TS, yuck) server a hugh advantage over those who dont. With the evolution of MMOGs, this was a necessary step. Now, I think that most medium and large guilds will still keep Ventrilo, but this does a lot to even the playing field. Hell, I am looking forward to being able to communicate in BGs.

I really do think that they should have pulled VoIP from 2.2, and went live with the bug fixes (3 pieces of loot per boss from TK and SSC. YES PLEASE!) and stuff a while ago, as I agree that they are on a major timetable.

2.3 is going to be Zul'Amen and probably Season 3.
2.4 is going to be more tweaks, and probably a Zul'Amen nerf.
2.5 will be the Sunwell.

I think my projection of November 2008 for WotLK is looking better and better. Oh yeah, Sunwell is going to be the next Naxxramas. Only like 5% of players will ever kill more than 1 boss, and then it will be lamented as being an awesome instance that most people didnt see. It will then be brought back in the 4th expansion World of Warcraft: The Screams of the Dying God Champion, and retuned for level 110 characters.

T hey really didn't have to add it. Voice chat isn't suddenly going to make the unwashed masses suddenly turn to it in droves nor will it make Azzrapor able to tank Deadmines. The people who WOULD benefit from it are already using something and won't switch. This is Meeting Stones part two.

And November 2008 is looking mighty on target which, frankly, isn't acceptable for the amount of money they pull in. That'd definitely put the nail in the coffin of a lot of people's WoW careers, I think.

[Paelos]

I don't get the hate for TS, mostly because we use a dedicated server for it. Vent's slightly better in quality, but the interface is just this side of hideous.

I will say that this "voice chat" BS that Blizzard is desperately trying to get right is pushing all my wrong buttons. I don't give two damns about voice chat in the program. I DO give a crap about ZA coming out, and content delay in favor of bells and whistles is pissing me off.

[Simond]

Hell, I am looking forward to being able to communicate in BGs.

You'll have a long wait. Current implementation does not work cross-server.

[Fordel]

That is my take on this as well. Integrated Voice, don't really care either way. The fact said VoiP is delaying all the other stuff I want/need (wtb: 10 min blessings already!) is super annoying. Pushing back GuildBanks for voice? ugh.

[Calantus]

Wait, there's a patch coming up? Why hadn't I heard of it?

Seriously... I'm so tired of the Blizzard patching process. My ponytail sticks out of the back of my headgear if I turn it on, just like anybody with hair and a S2 arena head. This has been broken since the beginning of season 2. This has been a known issue within Blizzard since the beginning of season 2. Now if they were trying to sort out a fix, waiting this long is fine, I understand that sometimes you just can't fix something as quick as you like. If they had other bugs they were fixing or features they were rolling out that's fine, I can see this as a low priority sure. But no, they haven't patched SHIT between now and the start of the season. They've had it fixed on the test server for forever but we don't get a fix because they are so fucking slow to roll it out. Oh and arena is going to change quite a bit (especially 2v2) once 2.2 hits because of the dot nerf and no stacking of shadow res and the nerfing of CC. But... we've known this forever. I sold my shadow res I had been collecting once it was announced MONTHS AGO that this was going ahead. We've lost to teams just barely because CC was just a bit too long, or dots were just a bit too strong. It's so annoying losing to things you know are getting patched out next patch... and knowing this for months.

/end rant

[Kail]

2.3 is going to be Zul'Amen and probably Season 3.
2.4 is going to be more tweaks, and probably a Zul'Amen nerf.
2.5 will be the Sunwell.

Any idea when the XP revamp I've been hearing about is going to hit?  That's pretty much what I'm holding out for...  I have a half dozen characters in Gadgetzan right now, and haven't been able to muster the excitement to grind them up to 58, since I've been hearing that they're going to boost quest XP and lower XP requirements aaaaaaany day now....

[Merusk]

It's not "any day now."  Yay internet rumors.  It's the same kind of misunderstanding that was around when they first announced BC and 'omg they said june!!' suddenly became the gospel truth rather than a complete misunderstanding.

They said they're looking at it for around WOTLK when it was first announced.  So expect 9 months or so before it happens.

[SurfD]

Whats this about "stacking shadow resist"?  I know about different resists not stacking from various buffs (auras, totems, and the like) but other then priest buff and SR gear, where do you "stack" shadow resist in such a way that they are nerfing it for arenas?

Or are you talking about the people in full BT crafted shadowresist gear Laughing at the flavour of the month warlock / SPriest teams?

[Chenghiz]

the people in full BT crafted shadowresist gear Laughing at the flavour of the month warlock / SPriest teams?

This.

[Calantus]

Whats this about "stacking shadow resist"?  I know about different resists not stacking from various buffs (auras, totems, and the like) but other then priest buff and SR gear, where do you "stack" shadow resist in such a way that they are nerfing it for arenas?

Or are you talking about the people in full BT crafted shadowresist gear Laughing at the flavour of the month warlock / SPriest teams?

Yes. Teams can now stack shadow resisitance because they can switch gear when they see their opponents. The nerf is that you can't switch gear during arena so yoou either go without shadow res, stack shadow res and get screwed by every non-shadow team, or mix in just a little.

[Phred]

I'd further speculate that this whole "integrated voice chat" is the pet project of someone, much like the first iterations of meeting stones.

That's the best speculation I've heard so far.  This voice chat thing is the first true and unmitigated bonehead idea that I've seen out of Blizzard.  A case can be made for the LFG system, the meeting stones, and all the other failures, but as even my old daddy could have told them, "if it ain't broke, why fix it?"

It's almost like they had a meeting to figure out what improvements they could copy from LoTR and the only one anyone thought was a real improvement was voice chat. I'd rather they'd rewritten the patcher if they have that kind of bandwidth to spare.

Even in LoTR every guild I raided (or even did 5 mans with) used vent. I have a vent client on another old machine on my desk and this just means I have to add a mic to my main machine, or tell ppl who want to use the built in voice chat my mic is broke like I did in LoTR.

[SurfD]

Whats this about "stacking shadow resist"?  I know about different resists not stacking from various buffs (auras, totems, and the like) but other then priest buff and SR gear, where do you "stack" shadow resist in such a way that they are nerfing it for arenas?

Or are you talking about the people in full BT crafted shadowresist gear Laughing at the flavour of the month warlock / SPriest teams?

Yes. Teams can now stack shadow resisitance because they can switch gear when they see their opponents. The nerf is that you can't switch gear during arena so yoou either go without shadow res, stack shadow res and get screwed by every non-shadow team, or mix in just a little.

Ahh, so rather then being a nerf to shadow resistance stacking, it is more like a nerf to gear switching.

[Modern Angel]

It's not "any day now."  Yay internet rumors.  It's the same kind of misunderstanding that was around when they first announced BC and 'omg they said june!!' suddenly became the gospel truth rather than a complete misunderstanding.

They said they're looking at it for around WOTLK when it was first announced.  So expect 9 months or so before it happens.

Actually it is supposed to hit well before WLK and that's from Blue. Best guess is 2.3.

[Simond]

I suspect that 2.3 will be turned around very quickly and contain little other than the troll instance...if only because a lot of guilds are beginning to hit the wall* which seperates Karaz/heroics/Magtheridon and the catass instances of Tempest Keep, Black Temple et al.

2.4 will follow later with old world revamp, maybe the Sunwell instances and possibly the eventual detuning of the upper tier TBC raids so that the 95%+ of the raiding playerbase actually gets to see them.


*WoWJitsu is very interesting reading and I hope that Blizzard has their own version of it. The way that most (non-twink) guilds have at least attempted one Karazhan run, but something stupid like 0.01% of guilds have 'killed' Illidan - and the way that the content completion curve turns into a cliff-face somewhere around Tempest Keep - goes to show that Blizzard really needs to take a look at the tuning of the later TBC content. I mean, sure - Illidan is killable but it's probably in much the same was as original-C'thun was killable: If you have a group of just over two dozen people in the absolute best gear, who all know exactly what to do, when to do it, and never make a mistake...you'll probably win. But that's no way to run a MMOG (The Vision aside).

[Modern Angel]

Oh I don't think the turn around will be quick at all. Their patching process is monstrously fucked up  and their QA is paid an absolute pittance; the two together make for fun times as shit like orcs having teensy shoulderpads not only goes through when it's entirely obvious to anyone LOGGING ON TO THE GAME but that simple problem sits there for four months with no fix.

My guild's one of those hitting that brick wall of content and I'm not holding out hope for a quick ZA patch at all. 2.3 also had, what? The guild banks, possible old world revamp, ret and enhancement changes and some other crap I've forgotten because I quit paying attention a month and a half ago when I realized I wasn't going to see it for six months. Two months on 2.3, minimum.

[Simond]

Zul'Aman is (apparently) complete and finished internal testing. Arena season 3 likewise. Guild banks are the only thing which I could see seriously holding up 2.3 (and given how long voice chat has taken, even this could be internally complete by now and would just need beta-testing). If what I heard is true, then 2.3 will be up on Test as soon as Blizzard finishes firefighting the 2.2 patch trainwreck, and go live fairly soon afterwards (within a month), barring catastrophes.

Now whether 2.3 will have everything they originally promised for it is an entirely different matter. :)

[Modern Angel]

That would be good but I'll believe it when I see it. The waits for 2.1 and 2.2 have pretty much destroyed my faith in Blizzard's patching and content release processes.

[Morfiend]

They have also stated that 2.3 is being worked on right now also. Its not like every one is still working on 2.2. I think its just the VoIP guys finishing off 2.2. I agree that I think we will see a very quick turn around on 2.3.

[Paelos]

They have also stated that 2.3 is being worked on right now also. Its not like every one is still working on 2.2. I think its just the VoIP guys finishing off 2.2. I agree that I think we will see a very quick turn around on 2.3.

That pisses me off even more. If 2.3 is practically done, just lump the damn thing in with 2.2 and scrap the stupid VoIP for now. Nobody is going to whine hard about this being delayed. Was this an actual feature that the community went, OMG YES! I certainly didn't.

[Nonentity]

Wait, there's a patch coming up? Why hadn't I heard of it?

Seriously... I'm so tired of the Blizzard patching process. My ponytail sticks out of the back of my headgear if I turn it on, just like anybody with hair and a S2 arena head. This has been broken since the beginning of season 2. This has been a known issue within Blizzard since the beginning of season 2. Now if they were trying to sort out a fix, waiting this long is fine, I understand that sometimes you just can't fix something as quick as you like. If they had other bugs they were fixing or features they were rolling out that's fine, I can see this as a low priority sure. But no, they haven't patched SHIT between now and the start of the season. They've had it fixed on the test server for forever but we don't get a fix because they are so fucking slow to roll it out. Oh and arena is going to change quite a bit (especially 2v2) once 2.2 hits because of the dot nerf and no stacking of shadow res and the nerfing of CC. But... we've known this forever. I sold my shadow res I had been collecting once it was announced MONTHS AGO that this was going ahead. We've lost to teams just barely because CC was just a bit too long, or dots were just a bit too strong. It's so annoying losing to things you know are getting patched out next patch... and knowing this for months.

/end rant

Orc shoulders :(

[Selby]

When I hear about the VoIP thing, all I think about is UO's IM program that they added that caused so many more problems than it solved.  No one ever used it to my knowledge...

[Phred]

Zul'Aman is (apparently) complete and finished internal testing. Arena season 3 likewise. Guild banks are the only thing which I could see seriously holding up 2.3 (and given how long voice chat has taken, even this could be internally complete by now and would just need beta-testing). If what I heard is true, then 2.3 will be up on Test as soon as Blizzard finishes firefighting the 2.2 patch trainwreck, and go live fairly soon afterwards (within a month), barring catastrophes.

Now whether 2.3 will have everything they originally promised for it is an entirely different matter. :)

I could see them having one, maybe two programmers on the voice chat, so everyone else is probably on to other stuff even now.

[Azazel]

Any idea when they're pushing 2.2 through? And when are the afk-valley arena changes due?