'tard-free MMO?

[Xanthippe]

Does such a thing exist?

How about a private server MMO?  I mean, one that's actually supported by a company for updates and patches and server maintenance and all that, not some pirated crap.  One that's policed and maintained by the players.  If a person gets banned from one server, they have to go to another.

I suppose it's a utopic idea, but while I love to play MMOs, I really despise some of the fucktards who also play MMOs. 

The whole reputation idea is great, but unless people actually use it, it's worthless.  I can't imagine a rep system that's grief-free, either.

[sam, an eggplant]

Subscribe to pretty much any modern game with instancing, turn off the public channels, and join a guild consisting entirely of your friends. Instancing means you don't have to worry about asshats messing up your game.

[Nebu]

I found Guild Wars to be a pretty good choice.  Turn off all chat channels and the rest of the adventure areas are instanced.  If you don't have any friends to play with, the Nightfall expansion allows you to customize heros for your party and you can fill up the remainder with henchmen.  The lack of a subscription fee makes playing casually very financially friendly. 

[raydeen]

My time in Meridian 59 was tard free. Don't know if that game would appeal to most though.

[shiznitz]

I don't know why all the MMOG companies haven't set up a joint effort to identify problem players.  They could make it voluntary to register (to avoid privacy issues) but if you do register, your characters will have some indicator of that in game and are therefore less likely to be a 'tard.

[Modern Angel]

I found Guild Wars to be a pretty good choice.  Turn off all chat channels and the rest of the adventure areas are instanced.  If you don't have any friends to play with, the Nightfall expansion allows you to customize heros for your party and you can fill up the remainder with henchmen.  The lack of a subscription fee makes playing casually very financially friendly. 

But woe befall anyone who turns on those chat channels...

[Venkman]

It all depends on your level of tolerance for the random person. Even WoW would be fine on a PvE server without the public chat channels.

[Threash]

I found Guild Wars to be a pretty good choice.  Turn off all chat channels and the rest of the adventure areas are instanced.  If you don't have any friends to play with, the Nightfall expansion allows you to customize heros for your party and you can fill up the remainder with henchmen.  The lack of a subscription fee makes playing casually very financially friendly. 

Isnt this just a single player game then?

[Nebu]

Isnt this just a single player game then?

No for 3 reasons:

1) If you choose to play with friends, you can.

2) If you want to meet strangers and pug, you can.

3) There's an intact economy. 

[Ralence]

  To be honest, every MMOG I've ever played I've sheltered myself from the masses by staying with a close knit, albeit large, group of friends.  Joining a guild in so many games just let's you be completely oblivious to the random asshats running around.  It is important that you find a guild that's willing to refuse to admit every random idiot, which for me has always been one with a 25+ age requirement.  Sure we do get people who slip through the cracks, but even then, after 15 minutes on Vent/TS, you can tell who the children are.

  I think choosing games where those "sorts" don't have as much ability to interfere with your gameplay helps immensely as well, instancing, pure PvE servers, those sort of things can really help to get you away from "Barrens Chat".

  I've also had a lot of luck with the guilds I've been a member of, mostly through recommendations from my friends, including a guild once headed by someone who ended up becoming a prominent developer.

[Rhonstet]

It's not about avoiding the retards inasmuch as it is the ability to filter them out.  Aside from questin' with the homies, one tried and true method my WoW guild uses is to form a guild group of 4, and send out instance invites.  If we do a run and find someone who isn't a jackass, we give them an invite, even if they are in another guild.

It is important that you find a guild that's willing to refuse to admit every random idiot, which for me has always been one with a 25+ age requirement.  Sure we do get people who slip through the cracks, but even then, after 15 minutes on Vent/TS, you can tell who the children are.

There is nothing that says you have to have the largest group on the block.  I'd take 10 friends over 100 random whackos anyday.  The best guilds I have seen are real social gamers who naturally form a party, rather then people who want an additional channel to crack wise on while they solo for the tenth day in a row.

One of the advantages of voicechat in idiot filtering is that voice chat is more immediate then text.  It requires a great deal less effort to use voice as opposed to text, so dumbasses will reveal themselves faster, and in greater numbers.  You also get to know the player a little better, which is what its all about. 

And anyone unwilling to shell out $20 for a headset mic is probably either a cheap bastard who's eventually going to screw you over, so paranoid they can't be very social, or so poor that they are going to vanish one day when the check doesn't clear.

[Merusk]

And anyone unwilling to shell out $20 for a headset mic is probably either a cheap bastard who's eventually going to screw you over, so paranoid they can't be very social, or so poor that they are going to vanish one day when the check doesn't clear.

Or, Oh I dunno, may have small kids so listening for them at night is a priority to talking & listening to random twits with ego complexes.

YMMV.

[Rhonstet]

Or, Oh I dunno, may have small kids so listening for them at night is a priority to talking & listening to random twits with ego complexes.

YMMV.

Isn't this a thread about avoiding random twits?

[Grand Design]

Oh hell no.  No such thing anymore.  I can practically point to a calendar and show you when the tards began taking over the original EQ.  And even when Blizzard made a whole game just for retards, Sony got very nervous and made EQ2 tard-friendly.

But its the learning curve that filters out the tards.  In other words, if you are playing a game that tards, kids, dogs, even anime-lovers can play, then who is really at fault for having exposed themselves to idiocy?  That's the lesson I eventually learned, anyway.

I think my point was: EvE.  Big learning curve means low tard count.

[Merusk]

Or, Oh I dunno, may have small kids so listening for them at night is a priority to talking & listening to random twits with ego complexes.

YMMV.

Isn't this a thread about avoiding random twits?

Then why are you in here singing the praises of voice chat?  Voice chat is worse than cell phones when it comes to inane conversations and babbling idiots.  Even fairly reasonable people turn into stupid fucks because they don't understand YOU DON"T HAVE TO TALK ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

[Xanthippe]

I'm trying to figure out how a business model for a private server MMO could work.

Like, for example, suppose F13.net had its own server for whatever game - Wow, Eq, whatever.  (I'm not saying they'd want to, but using this as an example).  Somebody would be in charge of the server  with the ability to boot whoever they pleased for whatever reason they pleased.  Players would have a certain amount of freedom of movement between servers, with some limitations, so if they don't like the f13.net server they could go to the SA server or the NGE server.

[pants]

The biggest problem with a tard-free anything is that, as has been proven in this very thread, everyone has a different definition of what a tard is.  I'm sure most of the Barrens chat cretins don't think they are tards, theyre just hanging out enjoying a computer game, and the people complaining about Chuck Norris jokes are uptight pricks who need to lighten up.

As has been said before, your best bet of reducing tardation is finding a good group/guild of people.  That of course is easier said than done - my old EQ/WoW guild is currently rotting in Vanguard for some insane reason, and trying to find reasonable people amongst the mass of WoW tardation got just too much and I quit.  Finding and keeping a good group of people (who may or may not use voicechat) is 90% of the work in these types of games I find.

[schild]

Xanthippe, I would pay for another dedicated server if a company released such a thing. Honestly, I'm sort of in the wishful thinking camp that Diablo 3 will be like this. I hoped Hellgate: London would be like that. Didn't happen, obviously. One day though. We were on the fence with UT2k4 RPG for a long time because of this, but it's not really fully featured enough and results in terrible unbalance do to the gameplay. Is unbalance a word? Is now.

[Merusk]

I'm trying to figure out how a business model for a private server MMO could work.

The best way would be the same way MUDs work.  It requires someone to come-up with the first 3-d Open-source MUD, though.  That's not going to happen as long as cash is being made hand-over-fist by the current pay-to-play and pay-per-item games.   It doesn't make sense to just give that kind of programming and content time away instead of cashing-in on your work.

I can't see businesses doing it without also requiring that your client sync-up to verify you're running a valid and paid-for copy of the program, or require that your servers logins go through their central login server.  And then I can see some kind of fee for the size of the server your running, like Ventrillo and Teamspeak use. 

[Evildrider]

Does such a thing exist?

How about a private server MMO?  I mean, one that's actually supported by a company for updates and patches and server maintenance and all that, not some pirated crap.  One that's policed and maintained by the players.  If a person gets banned from one server, they have to go to another.

I suppose it's a utopic idea, but while I love to play MMOs, I really despise some of the fucktards who also play MMOs. 

The whole reputation idea is great, but unless people actually use it, it's worthless.  I can't imagine a rep system that's grief-free, either.

Although not a very popular game among most.  I'd say try DDO.. we have a few asshats of course.. but I'd say the average player age is probably older then most other MMO's out there.  I've been playing since launch and I've never ran across a player that made me want to stop playing or even have had to ignore.

[sam, an eggplant]

I could see DDO being a lot of fun with a static group of friends, going through each dungeon without spoilers. Unfortunately, if you don't have that static group it's a very, very different experience, running through dungeons as fast as possible, directly to the boss/loot, then repeating on hard mode 100x.

At least it was a year ago. I hear they have Drizzzts now. So that's something. Not something good, but something.

[Evildrider]

I could see DDO being a lot of fun with a static group of friends, going through each dungeon without spoilers. Unfortunately, if you don't have that static group it's a very, very different experience, running through dungeons as fast as possible, directly to the boss/loot, then repeating on hard mode 100x.

At least it was a year ago. I hear they have Drizzzts now. So that's something. Not something good, but something.

Well we do Elite mode now :O  Ya, it is hard to find a group that will take it slow for ya.  There still seems to be a slow trickle of newish players though.  Along with the recent server merges at least PUG groups aren't hard to find. 

I actually haven't seen more then one or 2 drizzt's I think most of them got reported for their name early on. lol

[Count Nerfedalot]

...
I think my point was: EvE.  Big learning curve means low tard count.

This was my first thought.  And then I recalled the last time I ventured into the EvE message boards and that pretty much debunks that theory. 

As another poster implied, tardishness is in the eyes of the beholder.  I consider the egomaniacal e-peen-waving so-full-of-themselves-they-should-pop-like-Belushi-impersonating-a-zit asshats on the Eve message boards to be tards.  You may consider them good folks or even be one yourself.  *shrug*  To each bird flocks their own feather together.  Or something. :-D

Regarding private servers though, even if you wait till a game is old enough that the server could run on a cheap machine, it seems unlikely that a company could profitably offer to host private servers for it.  Too many things stacked up against you, from database and middleware license fees to systems support costs not scaling down with the machine cost, to a rather limited market - just how many guilds/groups of friends could field the 2-10K players required to keep the economy and social spaces of the truly MassiveMOGs viable?  (Fully instanced games with common chatrooms like DDO would escape that issue at least - but they don't REALLY count as MMOGs for the same reason, any more than Diablo did. 

And having pulled out the evil icon, I might point out that it could be said that EvE already IS a private server run by a guild who has the power to ban folks at will if they feel like it, at least according to the rumors and all.  /me ducks into Cheyenne mountain screaming "close the blast doors!" 

[UnSub]

I think my point was: EvE.  Big learning curve means low tard count.

I'd say that EVE's tards are a different sort of tard. And that even the devs get in on the tardishness.

Fact is: wherever there are people, so shall there be tards. It's just the overall % to players you want to group with that counts.

I find that CoH/V (outside of the starter areas) is pretty good. Off-hand, I've heard that ATITD is pretty good too, because it's not a game that encourages tardism to stay.

[EvilJohn]

Services like private servers, watch-lists, etc. are things that will evolve as the market "matures" (only in fiscal terms, not maturity of developers) and begins to specialize (like most any other service oriented industry). With WoW's financial success (and hopefully a few other MMOs or large online games in the future), this should hopefully accelerate this process enough to start seeing it.

SOE's Legend servers (or whatever the expensive ones were called) is actually an early experiment/example of this. Blizzard (I believe) could actually do something similar and broader with their established base now and probably make $$$ even faster than they do now.

That said, a lot of the garage MUDs/MMOs out there do have this feel, but they're generally not as pretty or polished as some of the bigger players.

[Rhonstet]

I'm trying to figure out how a business model for a private server MMO could work.

The best way would be the same way MUDs work.  It requires someone to come-up with the first 3-d Open-source MUD, though.   

There are MMOs that let you have your own private server: Minions of Mirth is the only one I tried recently.

I believe Ragnarok Online lets you host your own servers too.

[Venkman]

Private servers are great for the low tolerant or those who game with a very specific game group. But they're also more "large multiplayer" than "massive" to me (not that my view in this matters of course). That's fine, but to me, the random-social nature of large MMOs is the reason I can't really stick too much to offline/single-player games. Warts and all. It's like when I hit a bar. There's dozens or scores of people around. I don't know most of them, I'll never talk to them, and I'll silently disagree with some of whatever is in earshot. But the upshot is the potential to meet new people and imbibe the social lubricant (defined by environment).

And anyone unwilling to shell out $20 for a headset mic is probably either a cheap bastard who's eventually going to screw you over, so paranoid they can't be very social, or so poor that they are going to vanish one day when the check doesn't clear

Or game in an environment unsuited for voice chat. And don't give me that "you're not a gamer" crap either. I've been gaming since Pong son :)

Seriously though, my gaming environment has always been in the room adjacent to my living or the one next to my kids' bedroom, because I'm only gaming when they're asleep and my wife is doing her own thing. As such, voicechat is tough for me, as much as I would like to use it. In those games that have pretty much required it, I've tended to listen in on the voicechat and confirm via the keyboard.

I think my point was: EvE. Big learning curve means low tard count

I attribute it more to accountability. There are plenty of tards in Eve. Some are just better armed.

[Moorgard]

I'm trying to figure out how a business model for a private server MMO could work.

Lunch hour brainstorm here, so this likely has holes big enough to drive a truck through, but here goes.

Picture an MMO that has normal servers that you can play on (e.g. WoW, EQ, etc.) but you also have the option of leasing a private server for $XXX per month.

- Only accounts you invite can make characters on the server.
- Accounts that choose to play on the private server pay an additional $Y per month above the base subscription. The revenue is split between you (as the one who leases the server) and the company that made the game. It's a split that favors you so that you can use the revenue to pay for the server lease, and maybe profit as well.
- You have some degree of customization over the content. This could just be big global levers (XP rate, loot drops, etc.) or it might go into minute details (replacing all the spells with your own, adding your own artwork and models, creating your own items, etc.).
- Characters created on private servers can never be transfered to public servers.

There are any number of uses for such a model. If you and a bunch of coworkers really like the game and decide you want a server all to yourselves, you can pay for one and keep the rules as is. If you want to design a very customized game that shows off your design skills, you can craft your own version of the product and use it as a living resume.

The scale of the game world is a huge factor in this, as it directly affects the cash required to host a discreet instantiation of the world. If the world is so huge that it requires a whole bunch of physical machines to run, this probably isn't going to be cost effective. If your back-end is designed such that a bunch of private worlds could be shared on a few dynamically load-balanced machines, it could work.

Anyway, that's it for lunch. Brain going sleepy now.

[Alkiera]

I'm trying to figure out how a business model for a private server MMO could work.

Lunch hour brainstorm here, so this likely has holes big enough to drive a truck through, but here goes.

Picture an MMO that has normal servers that you can play on (e.g. WoW, EQ, etc.) but you also have the option of leasing a private server for $XXX per month.

- Only accounts you invite can make characters on the server.
- Accounts that choose to play on the private server pay an additional $Y per month above the base subscription. The revenue is split between you (as the one who leases the server) and the company that made the game. It's a split that favors you so that you can use the revenue to pay for the server lease, and maybe profit as well.
- You have some degree of customization over the content. This could just be big global levers (XP rate, loot drops, etc.) or it might go into minute details (replacing all the spells with your own, adding your own artwork and models, creating your own items, etc.).
- Characters created on private servers can never be transfered to public servers.

There are any number of uses for such a model. If you and a bunch of coworkers really like the game and decide you want a server all to yourselves, you can pay for one and keep the rules as is. If you want to design a very customized game that shows off your design skills, you can craft your own version of the product and use it as a living resume.

The scale of the game world is a huge factor in this, as it directly affects the cash required to host a discreet instantiation of the world. If the world is so huge that it requires a whole bunch of physical machines to run, this probably isn't going to be cost effective. If your back-end is designed such that a bunch of private worlds could be shared on a few dynamically load-balanced machines, it could work.

Anyway, that's it for lunch. Brain going sleepy now.

I think that could work even without much in the way of customization.  Supply a graphic that displays on login, or something, so the server 'owner' gets a chance to remind people who's running it.  But as far as altering xp, content, etc, I don't know that that would be necessary to make the idea work.  Perhaps even have a tiered model, where you get a stock server for $X/month, and customization level 1 for $X*1.5/month, and more customization for $X*2.5/month.

This would make for an interesting alternative to encounter instancing.  No need for a calendar for dragon raids if there is only one guild on the server.

--
Alkiera

[Yegolev]

The tards in ATitD are just harder to spot than the other types.  Except for Pharaoh, he's easy to spot.

I'm going with the "retardation is in the eyes of the beholder" explanation.

[Nebu]

The tards in ATitD are just harder to spot than the other types.  Except for Pharaoh, he's easy to spot.

I'm going with the "retardation is in the eyes of the beholder" explanation.

In ATitD they're the ones reading a sci-fantasy novel while their macro program plays the game for them. 

I tend to agree with the "eye of the beholder" sentiment.

[Kamen]

I'd say the ATitD community is far more mature and pleasant to be around than any other online community I've played in.

[LK]

ATITD is pretty good in concept but it is such masochistic game-play that only people who enjoy the idea of sandpaper with jagged class embedded in it rubbed against their taint would find it enjoyable.

Still, I do like some crafting game-play.

[lamaros]

MM.. without 'tards.

You have been outside right? You know what people are like?

The Massive Multiplayer population is drawn from the Massive number of people in the world.

I don't want to call the suggestion fascist. No wait, I do.

Fascist.

If you want to play a game with a large population there are going to be 'tards of all types - including the type that wants to get rid of others they don't like. But it wouldn't be massive without them.

What you would be better off saying is you want some kind of generaly accepted level of accountability to keep the 'tards from ruining the game. Which is a different thing.

Otherwise just play LAN games with your friends. Who are probably 'tards.

[BigBlack]

I'm trying to figure out how a business model for a private server MMO could work.

Like, for example, suppose F13.net had its own server for whatever game - Wow, Eq, whatever.  (I'm not saying they'd want to, but using this as an example).  Somebody would be in charge of the server  with the ability to boot whoever they pleased for whatever reason they pleased.  Players would have a certain amount of freedom of movement between servers, with some limitations, so if they don't like the f13.net server they could go to the SA server or the NGE server.

I know a guy who makes six figures running a very large private Ragnarok online server (2,000 simultaneous users, I heard?) with a slightly altered ruleset.  He has three or four paid admins who each clear something like 800 a month themselves.

It's mainly about a game with graphics/content simple enough that you can create your own uber shit in addition to the game's usual database, and then sell that uber shit - make it an expendable item that they'll need to replace over time, and you're golden.

Impure?  Certainly, but you can't make money hats out of purity.