Blizzard giving PvE to PvP transfers to friends

[Kalei]

That's what the headline says:

http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/08/21/blizzard-giving-pve-to-pvp-transfers-to-friends/

It started out that I read it on the General Forums over at Blizzard here (well, that's one of them anyway):  http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1134167478&sid=1

Then I just followed the link and sure enough, it would appear the rumors were true.  Someone had an in with someone at Blizzard and Nethaera pulled the plug.  Not that I would expect Blizzard to do anything less, the guy was busted cold.  However, it does make one wonder how many others got away with it.

[Merusk]

Meh, I'm of the opinion they should let PvE -> PvP transfers happen normally anyway.  Oh noes, you didn't get ganked leveling up. You will in the next expansion or while doing your dailies.  Folks buying PvP server accounts didn't get ganked leveling up either, and that's allowed under the Blizz EULA.

In the grand scheme of things this "scandal" type is one of the smallest we've seen out of the MMO world.  That it involves Furor (once again) is just an indication they need to fire his ass and send a clear message.  J. Kaplan disappeared after his guild's little fiasco, but here we have #2 with Mr. Loudmouth.

[Zetor]

I'm fairly sure they made an 'exception' a year and a half ago, when they allowed FOH (Furor's guild) transfer from Hyjal (PvE) to Black Dragonflight (PvP). Of course they allowed other Hyjal players to transfer too, so it wasn't TOO obvious. :P

Edit: I just read the article, and it looks like the transfer was also for another FOH member onto BD. I am shocked and appalled at this completely unexpected turn of events... kek.


-- Z.

[Kalei]

I agree with you on the ruleset, but those are their rules.

The problem I have with what happened, is first of all, it's not the first time.  When the rumors were first hitting the boards over there about favoritism towards FoH, well over a year ago now, it also concerned PvE to PvP transfers.  At that time, Hyjal, a PvE server was allowed to transfer to Black Dragonflight, a PvP server.  People called foul because it was well-known that FoH was suspiciously on Hyjal who was the pick to be eligible.  Blizzard (Eyonix) had this to say about it:

I realize that conspiracy theories are fun to entertain, and that what I'm about to say will be very disappointing for those seeking to expose some ugly untruth in the world of Azeroth, but the fact remains, Hyjal was chosen due to the negative effects associated with being host to such a high population of players, not because of what guilds had established themselves there.

Also, while were at it, Mr. Rogers never served as a U.S.Army sniper in Vietnam.




Guys, the transference of characters from select PvE to PvP realms was done with the intent to improve realm performance. Nothing more. Previously, we hadn't planned to open up transfers from a PvE ruleset to a PvP ruleset, and the decision was one that was under discussion for weeks. Heavy discussion, as a matter of fact. It was decided that in order to better encourage players on the chosen high population realms to transfer to our new hardware, we'd allow an opportunity for transfers to a player vs. player realm type.

We realize that there are other high population realms that could've benefited from a similar transfer, but we chose realms that we believed would benefit the most.

We may or may not do such a transfer again in the future. Such a decision will likely be made based upon the impact of the actual transfer, and feedback that's been provided concerning the decision. You should also know that we appreciate the feedback we receive on this matter, but conspiracy theories that detail assumption will be ignored.


You guys do realize that the discussions and decisions involving realm transfers are handled by our Network Operations team, and not Game Designers, yes?


And the other 6 realms being transferred, what of them? They are getting preferential treatment, according to your claims, right? Who is the big name on those realms?

http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-general/7932720.htm

Now over a year later, we see this again and Eyonix looks like a man eating crow.

How do you trust a company that comes out with an excuse like the above and then blatantly (and rather arrogantly) basically refers to the poster Vigil as a player wearing a tin-foil hat?  Or a company that is running around the Blizzard boards locking any thread they see crop up on the subject.  Judging from the volume of them, I think they would have to hire an extra person just to do the job, it's that many.

There's paranoia and then there's the truth.  Judging from the threads that won't die on Blizzard's forums, despite how fast they lock and delete them, people are pretty incensed about the latest manuveurs.  It would appear a game designer does have influence over their "Network Operations" and they don't want you thinking that.

[Tarami]

Alright. I'll agree with Merusk, who cares if they let people transfer. Getting ganked at low levels still doesn't buy you the right to do the same. It's just being an asshole, regardless. People get ganked and griefed enough without having to put up with some kind of martyrdom for 65 levels. More power to people who can use contacts to circumvent it. The only thing I can see they did wrong was to get caught red-handed. That was awkward.

[WindupAtheist]

What happened to the good old days of corruption, when staff would run around killing people on GM accounts, or creating items to sell on eBay, or giving their buddies free lewtz?

*looks at Eve board*

Oh yeah.

[Kalei]

J. Kaplan disappeared after his guild's little fiasco, but here we have #2 with Mr. Loudmouth.

Jeff/Tigole is actually alive and well and doing the promo's for WotLK, believe it or not.

http://www.curse.com/articles/details/2842/

[Kalei]

What happened to the good old days of corruption, when staff would run around killing people on GM accounts, or creating items to sell on eBay, or giving their buddies free lewtz?

*looks at Eve board*

Oh yeah.

And that's just it.  People aren't so dumb not to know this happens.  I saw it back in a MUD before Everquest even started so to think they don't cheat is kinda naive.  I just can't believe their spokes-people.  Do they even believe what they write?  Because both Eyonix and Tseric are going off on that guy as if he's nothing but a conspiracy theorist.

While Eve got caught taking even bigger liberties, I'm sure not that naive to believe Blizzard isn't just as guilty.  They just need to lose the arrogant, self-righteous attitude.

[Trippy]

In the grand scheme of things this "scandal" type is one of the smallest we've seen out of the MMO world.  That it involves Furor (once again) is just an indication they need to fire his ass and send a clear message.  J. Kaplan disappeared after his guild's little fiasco, but here we have #2 with Mr. Loudmouth.

You are thinking of GFrazier.

Also, there's no evidence Furor was involved other than the fact that the person transferred was from FoH.

[Modern Angel]

Kaplan's been all over the place, non-stop, since the game came out. He's now one of the lead developers. That's not disappearing.

The real issue is that the recruitment pool on pve servers is nil and you cannot transfer to a better server because, well, there's no place TO transfer. It's a ridiculous rule.

[ajax34i]

And that's just it.  People aren't so dumb not to know this happens.  I saw it back in a MUD before Everquest even started so to think they don't cheat is kinda naive.  I just can't believe their spokes-people.  Do they even believe what they write?  Because both Eyonix and Tseric are going off on that guy as if he's nothing but a conspiracy theorist.

It's a combo-move.  Always happens in the same sequence, no variations.  Individuals in the dev company do favors (it's human nature), people on the internets get up in arms about it (even though everyone knows this kind of stuff happens all the time), and the devs post some sort of response downplaying the event and cooling down the masses.

We don't want to see indications of wide-spread corruption:  we want the illusion that it was a once-off occurrence, and that the little guy who did it will get punished badly for doing it (that's the indication that it's not widespread corruption).

[Xanthippe]

Blizzard should change the policy and allow pve to transfer to pvp, but until they do, they should come down hard on people who are involved in favoritism.  Hard, as in, fire their asses.

The CMs just end up looking like assholes, especially because - well, they acted like assholes.  Familiarity breeds contempt, and when CMs end up publicly treating players with contempt, it's time for them to find a new job.

I wonder what sort of other favors FoH has received?

[Merusk]

In the grand scheme of things this "scandal" type is one of the smallest we've seen out of the MMO world.  That it involves Furor (once again) is just an indication they need to fire his ass and send a clear message.  J. Kaplan disappeared after his guild's little fiasco, but here we have #2 with Mr. Loudmouth.

You are thinking of GFrazier.

Also, there's no evidence Furor was involved other than the fact that the person transferred was from FoH.

You're right, I was.   You're also right about no direct evidence, but that it's FoH is enough to warrant some looking in to on Blizz's part.  Unless there's some naive belief that the friends he made while leading FoH really don't talk to him anymore.

[ajax34i]

I wonder what sort of other favors FoH has received?

I can guess at the mild stuff:  fast response to petitions (which is nice when, for example, Onyxia bugs out and doesn't give loot on you), looking the other way for some of the petty illegal stuff like account sharing, buying gold, names in violation of the policy, and probably heads' up warnings whenever serious petitions were levelled against them (if any), so that they'd have a chance to remove the offense / fix it and avoid permabans.

The serious stuff, anybody's guess; we could sit here all day making up conspiracy theories.

[Morfiend]

What happened to the good old days of corruption, when staff would run around killing people on GM accounts, or creating items to sell on eBay, or giving their buddies free lewtz?

*looks at Eve board*

Oh yeah.

Dont forget posting naked pictures of fat uber guildmasters and their fat and hairy wives.

[Sogrinaugh]

I'm abit surprised at all the ambivalence twords this.  The fact that its human nature doesn't really excuse it.  Every day in every job people must reign their baser instincts to function professionally and act in a manner that enables them to keep their jobs and move forward in their careers.  In other lines of work, giving favor's to a given set of customers that is clearly against your companies stated policy can most certainly get your ass fired.

Also puzzled at the pro pve-to-pvp transfer stance many of you seem to have.  Why is it kocher to level up in the comfy nest of a pve server then transfer at level cap so that you can grief other players at their more vulnerable stages of development whilst you enjoyed complete safety from such predacious behavior?  At a policy level, this would likely create an enviroment where their were fewer characters 1-69 on pvp servers, as some (many?) would opt to level up on pve and transfering in, leaving even fewer people to group with for lower level instances, and even less cases of one of the most fun things in WoW, random world pvp between 2 players who happen to be questing in the same zone.

Not to mention its harder to level on pvp servers, especially in some zones.  One of the reasons i prefer pvp servers is i believe it selects for more tenacious, determined players.  No im not saying all pvp server players have these traits, im just saying % wise its fair to say pvp servers have abit more of it.

I can't really see any positives to allowing pve to pvp transfers other then lazy fucks saying I WANT IT who incidentally are exactly the sorts of maggots i dont want to play with.

[Modern Angel]

You're right. That's why PvE servers are more progressed as far as raids go and have higher populations of level 70s.

Oh, wait. Neither of those two things is true.

[caladein]

I misread that. Delete me.

[Sogrinaugh]

You're right. That's why PvE servers are more progressed as far as raids go and have higher populations of level 70s.

Oh, wait. Neither of those two things is true.

Haven't kept up with post-tbc raiding scene because i dont raid anymore but pre tbc...

D & T - Korgath - PvP (#1 US guild on alliance) KT 1st
Overrated - BDF (later Korgath) - PvP (#1 US guild on horde) C'Thun 1st
Nightmare's Asylum had the Nefarion 1st, Stranglethron PvP i believe.

I think Fury alone was a PvE 1st (ragnaros).

From a post i recently found about post-tbc guilds (feel free to double-check the veracity):
1 .Nihilum EU-Magtheridon - HORDE PvP
2 .Forte EU-Kazzak -ALLY Unknown (couldn't find this server)
3. Last Resort EU-Kazzak -HORDE unknown
4 .Meet Your Makers EU-Vek'nilash -HORDE PvP
5 .For the Horde EU-Destromath -HORDE PvP
6 .Death and Taxes US-Korgath -ALLY PvP
7 .Bad Omen EU-Dentarg -HORDE PvE
8 .Aurora US-Mal'Ganis -HORDE PvP
9 .Celebrity EU-Balnazzar -HORDE PvP
10. Glamour EU-Stormscale -ALLY PvP

So even if the realm "Kazzak" is PvE, progression is still heavily weighted twords pvp servers.

[Merusk]

You just proved Angel right.  Way to agree with him.   :-D

[pants]

Interestingly enough on fohguild.org there is no discussion about this particular drama (at least none that I could see), however there is a more general discussion about how a lot of PvE servers are having population problems, especially Horde side, and that 'serious' raid guilds all want to get onto PvP servers.  Not so much for ganking in Hillsbrad, but because there is a larger pool of serious raiders on the PvP servers, and you can transfer/guildhop/poach between PvP servers, but if you jump to a PvE server, you can't go back. 

I find it interesting that this is the shared belief - whether this imbalance is true or not is another matter - that some servers don't have enough people on em.  Maybe at least in NA WoW is finally plateauing?

[Xanthippe]

Frankly, given that leveling is a small piece of the game and that most pvp occurs in the battlegrounds, I just don't care if pve players transfer over.  It's not hard to level on any sort of server.  Getting ganked in STV?  Go level up in Desolace.  Etc.

I started on a pve server at launch, got my rogue to 53 within a month or so and then grew so incredibly bored that I started over on a pvp server.  I've levelled 2 to 70 and a third to 61. 

The state of the game now is such that it's hard enough finding people to instance with that any distinction between pve and pvp is minimal.  Who cares, really. 

The people I feel sorriest for are those on dead servers.  Not only should they be able to transfer to a living server, but it should be free.

However, favoritism is a different kettle of fish altogether.  Whoever did that should be canned.

[caladein]

I find it interesting that this is the shared belief - whether this imbalance is true or not is another matter - that some servers don't have enough people on em.  Maybe at least in NA WoW is finally plateauing?

In terms of a total population play, there isn't really any evidence to support that. There's less people in primetime compared to the BC launch, but still a lot of people more then pre-BC.

In terms of raiders and server-type, I think it's the Dwarf Priest argument, except for once I'm not on the gimped side of it (and thus have to really think through my responses). You make a decision at an early stage of your character/account's development that severely hinders you much later on and that doesn't strike me as quite fair.

I think people should be offered a once-per-year PvE -> PvP transfer as long they aren't transferring within three months of an expansion release.

[Modern Angel]

http://www.wowjutsu.com/us/

Look over the first page and tell me how many pvp versus pve servers you see. The argument that raiding and levelling on a pve server is easier is completely false.

[Sogrinaugh]

http://www.wowjutsu.com/us/

Look over the first page and tell me how many pvp versus pve servers you see. The argument that raiding and levelling on a pve server is easier is completely false.

I laugh at this comment.  Posting statics and say this reflects lack of increased effort and time spent hiding from hunting 70's, quest exp lost due to needing to avoid hotzones, time spent in back-n-forth ganking of other players against whom you hold a grudge...  The random mage aoe grinding like a pro, he rounds up his mobs, frost nova's, and begins his flamestrike that he will follow up with a CoC... only to get backstabbed by a NE rogue (watched this happen in netherstorm like 3 times last night).

Are you even aware how many people habitually park their 70 in the same zone their alt is questing, so that when the inevitable gank occures, they can log on their main and retaliate?  While leveling my priest this included almost everyone i grouped with that had a 70.  Its a given that you will get ganked, its a given that the normal human response to such is retaliation, at least for those who are able.  Those without the means must eat humble pie and hide.

Statics dont reflect that.  I honestly can't believe people try to make this argument except for a need to protect their ego from a percieved assault.

[caladein]

As someone who's leveled on a PvP server you do get ganked, you do avoid STV for the most part, but no, I have rarely been camped.

Now, if you retaliate by bringing out your 70 and then provoke them into bringing their main/friends, then yes, you'll get into a pissing match. When someone in my guild gets camped we set a rule long ago that: a) you probably aren't being camped, so just go about your business and b) if you are getting camped, we only send people to establish superiority long enough to get the character out of the zone, not to start a war.

If you want to start a fight, it's easy to start a fight on a PvP server, but if you just want to level/do dailys and mind your own business, you can do that just as easily.

[Kail]

Also puzzled at the pro pve-to-pvp transfer stance many of you seem to have.  Why is it kocher to level up in the comfy nest of a pve server then transfer at level cap so that you can grief other players at their more vulnerable stages of development whilst you enjoyed complete safety from such predacious behavior? 

Because players might find it fun?  This argument sounds a lot like the whole "I suffered through [game feature X], now I deserve more than someone who didn't" line, which seems out of place in a game whose only purpose is entertainment.  If someone wants to do it, and it won't screw with the gameplay, why not let them do it?  What makes someone who levelled on a PvP server more deserving of the "privilege" of ganking lowbies, while someone who levelled on a PvE server is less deserving?  For that matter, why make someone who's levelled one character on a PvE server and another one on a PvP server unable to transfer the PvE character to the PvP server?  It just seems like a weird restriction to me.

If the worst case scenario you can come up with is that people won't level alts on PvP servers, then so what?  I don't see the drawbacks you're talking about there.  Difficulty finding groups for levelling would be lower if everyone was migrating to PvE servers to level.  And if world PvP is the most enjoyable thing in WoW, why would people level on servers where the only difference is that you can't do it?

Edit: me have trouble with grammar, fix order words of

[Modern Angel]

http://www.wowjutsu.com/us/

Look over the first page and tell me how many pvp versus pve servers you see. The argument that raiding and levelling on a pve server is easier is completely false.

I laugh at this comment.  Posting statics and say this reflects lack of increased effort and time spent hiding from hunting 70's, quest exp lost due to needing to avoid hotzones, time spent in back-n-forth ganking of other players against whom you hold a grudge...  The random mage aoe grinding like a pro, he rounds up his mobs, frost nova's, and begins his flamestrike that he will follow up with a CoC... only to get backstabbed by a NE rogue (watched this happen in netherstorm like 3 times last night).

Are you even aware how many people habitually park their 70 in the same zone their alt is questing, so that when the inevitable gank occures, they can log on their main and retaliate?  While leveling my priest this included almost everyone i grouped with that had a 70.  Its a given that you will get ganked, its a given that the normal human response to such is retaliation, at least for those who are able.  Those without the means must eat humble pie and hide.

Statics dont reflect that.  I honestly can't believe people try to make this argument except for a need to protect their ego from a percieved assault.

Thanks, I play on a PvE server. Given that it's apparently a hideous experience levelling on a PvP server, one that is so heinous PvE players shouldn't be allowed to transfer since they have it easy mode, would you care to explain how PvP servers are roughly three times as progressed? I mean zone ins for raids must be a cesspool of wanton gankage where it takes a half hour to zone in. This is bearing in mind that Blizzard's entire argument against it is that it's easier to level and, more importantly to their line of reasoning and the type of game WoW is, easier to get epics in raids.

I also didn't get the chance to thank you for making my point for me above, so thanks!

[Simond]

Interestingly enough on fohguild.org there is no discussion about this particular drama (at least none that I could see),

Look in the Rickshaw. ;)

I find it interesting that this is the shared belief - whether this imbalance is true or not is another matter - that some servers don't have enough people on em.  Maybe at least in NA WoW is finally plateauing?

It's not a lack of players, it's a lack of Horde-side players. Some of the older normal servers can have a 3:1, 4:1 or worse A:H ratio. Less Horde players = Harder to recruit for guilds, worse server economy, etc, etc. A benefit used to be better BG queue times but now with the cross-server BGs, the honour changes & the changing nature of the newer servers means that this is less of an incentive...plus, you know, playing on a PvE server means that BGs tends to be more of a digression anyway, for a significant percentage of the playerbase.

It's a positive feedback loop as well, which makes it worse. PvE Horde player/guild looks around, sees small Horde playerbase, and decides to reroll on a PvP server (which have much closer to 1:1 ratios - the newer PvP servers are even Horde-biased) purely for a larger player pool. The A : H ratio on his/her old server then gets fractionally worse...leading to the next person to look around and say "You know what? There's just not enough Horde players left on this server. Time to reroll"

What Blizzard ought to have done, months (if not years) ago is to have seperate queues, server capacity status, etc. for Alliance & Horde. I mean, what's the point of flagging a server as High Population if all that means it that it's got three thousand Alliance & under a thousand Horde - Blizzard ought to be encouraging people to roll Horde on that server & discouraging Alliance, instead of just blanket "The server is nearly full"

[ajax34i]

I'm abit surprised at all the ambivalence twords this.  The fact that its human nature doesn't really excuse it.  Every day in every job people must reign their baser instincts to function professionally and act in a manner that enables them to keep their jobs and move forward in their careers.  In other lines of work, giving favor's to a given set of customers that is clearly against your companies stated policy can most certainly get your ass fired.

Yes, it's inexcusable!  It's also impossible to fix or do anything about it.  You go ahead and cancel your account over this, if you want, making sure to let Blizzard know just how inexcusable it is in your "why are you cancelling?" survey.  But as far as trying to get more people to do the same, hahahahahahahaha.

Something about shades of gray or something.

[Xanthippe]

Maybe what Blizzard should do is merge instances like the battlegroup servers were merged.

[Simond]

Server-mergers are bad PR.

[Ironwood]

Are you having that hard a time finding a group ?

[Venkman]

I'm abit surprised at all the ambivalence twords this.  The fact that its human nature doesn't really excuse it.  Every day in every job people must reign their baser instincts to function professionally and act in a manner that enables them to keep their jobs and move forward in their careers.  In other lines of work, giving favor's to a given set of customers that is clearly against your companies stated policy can most certainly get your ass fired.

Firing/reassigning someone doesn't undo the problem. The only to do that is to, like, undo the problem. Net gain zero, technical and PR wise. Unless there's truly a systemic problem, you don't need to go all psycho on the guy.

There's so much to complain about with WoW, and they've gotten so much heat of late, this is chickenfeed.

Oh, and I support PvE to PvP transfers. You're trying to grind to level 70. That's the goal. How many people do you (the general you, not you Sog) really think would end up on one particular service? You think it'd be a giant sucking sound to PvP? I doubt it. If you got a few dozen people per server, that's not going to screw up the world. And it allows people to get what they want.

Heck, Blizzard could charge $50 for this, and make it one time ever per account.

[Xanthippe]

Are you having that hard a time finding a group ?

Apparently some people are finding it very difficult to do end game instances due to being on a low population server.