Sony cutting jobs

[Riggswolfe]

Schild defense of the PS3 incoming in 3...2...1...

ETA: On a more serious note I'm not quite ready to declare the PS3 a failure but it's not looking good. Right now, in my city, 360s are harder to find on store shelves than PS3s. Every store I go to has at least 2-3 PS3s in stock.

[Yegolev]

It's too early to bury the PS3.  Price will drop, library will grow, sunrise, sunset.

[Roac]

Nintendo briefly outstrips Sony in market value.  Wow.

The wet blanket on that is that Sony is much more diversified in their product line than Nintendo, in that if Sony sucks it with the PS3/PSP, they are still a serious contender in the console market if they want to be, much in the same way MS is with the 360.  Other product lines can bolster up a weak one if there is a desire to lose money on it for strategic gains (for example, to help Blu-Ray).  Nintendo doesn't have that, as everything outside their game line is less than 1% of their company revenue.  The good thing about that is that it makes Nintendo much more focused on their product.

Riggs/Yeg:  I'm not saying the PS3 is a failure.  I would say it has failed to meet expectations so far, and is not *at all* in a happy place.  Outlook is not good, but even if the PS3 muddles on where it's at for the rest of the console cycle, that still might not be a failure for Sony if you can argue it helped win Blu-Ray for them.  It would just mean one product leaned into the strike zone for another.  That's bad for gamers, though.  The PS3 is a better system and better features/dollar, but that doesn't mean jack if Sony can't get hardware into consumer hands, and a huge library for people to pick from.  Even worst case though, Sony is in the same spot Nintendo was last gen and looking for a comeback in the 8th gen.  I don't see a price drop helping the PS3 at this point though; the 360 and Wii will follow suit, leaving everyone back at their starting positions.  The 360 and Wii will still have a larger install base, larger libraries, and more games in the pipe.

[Miasma]

Nintendo briefly outstrips Sony in market value.  Wow.

The wet blanket on that is that Sony is much more diversified in their product line than Nintendo, in that if Sony sucks it with the PS3/PSP, they are still a serious contender in the console market if they want to be, much in the same way MS is with the 360.  Other product lines can bolster up a weak one if there is a desire to lose money on it for strategic gains (for example, to help Blu-Ray).  Nintendo doesn't have that, as everything outside their game line is less than 1% of their company revenue.  The good thing about that is that it makes Nintendo much more focused on their product.

That's actually what surprised me the most, that a company which just makes games is worth as much as the vast Sony empire.

[HaemishM]

In other words, Sony is likely to have to really sweet talk 3rd party developers into making PS3 exclusive games to drive the install base up. Every big title they put out on the PS3 that is also on the 360 is a loss for them. Blu-Ray is their only competitive advantage in the market right now, because I can only think of one current PS3 game (Resistance) that is even close to being a system seller.

No, I don't count @Home, because for all its shiney, it isn't something you buy a system for. You buy a system for kickass games that you can't get anywhere else, whether that be Wii-ish party/multiplayer games, or 360 FPS or Metal Gear Solid 4. Sony has some aces in the hole, such as MGS4, GTHD (or whatever it's called now - GT5), the next Final Fantasy game, something hot from Capcom. But the longer it takes for those games to come out, the worse their position will be. They really do need a strong, strong Christmas 2007. Maybe it's a good thing that the PS3 was built to last 10 years, because it may be that long before they get a sizeable enough install base to compete.  

Or they could just lower the fucking price by $150-$200, eat the extra loss and move some fucking machines.

[schild]

You buy a system for kickass games that you can't get anywhere else

Not this generation. This generation you buy the Wii so you can join the club.

It sure as fuck isn't for kickass games.

And it's depressing the hell out of me.

[HaemishM]

My Wii kicks ass. Yours must be borken.

[Bunk]

Having played Wii Sports at a friend's place recently (I admit, its a great time waster when you get knocked out of the poker game early), I really have to wonder how much of Nintendo's base is going to be like my friend's situation. It was a cheap enough machine that they could just buy it and Wii Sports and be happy. I really don't see them in investing in new games down the line.

[Roac]

Having played Wii Sports at a friend's place recently (I admit, its a great time waster when you get knocked out of the poker game early), I really have to wonder how much of Nintendo's base is going to be like my friend's situation. It was a cheap enough machine that they could just buy it and Wii Sports and be happy. I really don't see them in investing in new games down the line.

Based on the huge software attachment rates, no one of consequence is just settling with Wii Sports.  Wii owners actually own more titles/unit than either of the other two consoles.  I do think a large percent of the Wii install base are of a similar initial mindset to your friend - they just change their mind and decide to get more titles later.  That Wii titles are on average cheaper than either 360 or PS3 titles helps in that respect too.

[Hayduke]

That's actually what surprised me the most, that a company which just makes games is worth as much as the vast Sony empire.

Sony's vast empire has had parts of the company that have been dismal for years now though.  The Playstation line was hiding a lot of their failings, and as the PS3 stalls a little Sony's worth is coming more into line with where the rest of the company has been for the last decade.

[Merusk]

the next Final Fantasy game,

I thought I'd heard that FF13 wasn't going to be a Sony-exclusive. Back around april/ may.

[Roac]

the next Final Fantasy game,

I thought I'd heard that FF13 wasn't going to be a Sony-exclusive. Back around april/ may.

Rumors have been kicked around about this, but the official line is that it's still a PS3 exclusive.  Supposedly the White engine is cross platform, but it won't be used that way.  Instead, SE is going to use Unreal 3 for future development.

Edit: Oh, also they're looking to do a lot of "13" titles.  THE FF13 is still planned to be PS3, but there are other games that will have similar names on other consoles (I don't think anything has been scheduled for the 360 though... just Wii and mobile stuffs).

[schild]

Rumors
- Another Parasite Eve is in the works for an actual console.
- Sony's going to show Epic the money to make UE3 work better on the PS3.
- Kojima Productions is working on another PS3 exclusive.
- Sony will repackage the PS2 to compete with the Wii by including a waggle-wand (their wording, not mine) for $99 this holiday season.
- AC/DC will help promote Rock Band.
- Capcom working on a PS3 exclusive.
- Super Smash Bros. Brawl will use Havok physics.

Probably should bold PE also.

Edit: That PS2 stuff, btw, HILARIOUS. I bet it's more accurate than the wiimote also.

Edit 2: Sorry. EGM Rumor Mill, August 07. Tends to be Right.

[Murgos]

What?  No AC/DC luv?  I saw them for the Razors edge tour in '91.  What's his name, the 40 year old guy (then), in the school boy outfit dropped his pants and was wearing boxers with hearts on it.

Hilarious.  Like a Benny Hill show.

Also, Alice in Chains opened for them, they were some up band who had that fucked up "Man in the Box" single.  And then Layne Staley and the other guys came down and sat in the about four rows over from me and my buddies.  We said "yo, good set" and they said, "Thanks man."

True story.

[Chimpy]

What's his name, the 40 year old guy (then), in the school boy outfit dropped his pants and was wearing boxers with hearts on it.

Angus Young

[Yegolev]

When I posted the bit about Sony settling with Immersion, I never expected a "waggle-wand" for PS2.  However this falls out, hilarity will ensue.

[Margalis]

Reeks of desperation, to answer the question "OH SHIT NOW WHAT?"

[schild]

What? Why? $99.

$99.

The poor derelicts people have spoken.

[WindupAtheist]

To the tune of this.  Everybody sing.

The fun is back, oh yessiree
It's the Playstation Two from So-oh-ny
It's the video system with classics galore
From Guitar Hero, to God of War
A real hip wagglestick controls the screen
Kingdom Hearts is hot, and GTA is mean
And one more thing, it's got a special low price
Under a hundred bucks
"Hundred bucks?!"
Now isn't that nice
The fun is back, oh yessiree
It's the Playstation Two from So-oh-ny

[Merusk]

The poor derelicts people have spoken.

 

[Roac]

What? Why? $99.

Because it would be as well thought out as the Sixaxis.

[Riggswolfe]

What? Why? $99.

Because it would be as well thought out as the Sixaxis.

Because the vast library of games isn't designed with this waggle-stick in mind.

[Yegolev]

What? Why? $99.

Because it would be as well thought out as the Sixaxis.

The one thing that keeps me from agreeing with you 100% is the fact that Sony has made nice -- real nice -- with Immersion.  They are working together now.  I actually blame the lawsuit for the craptacular Sixaxis and I have always viewed it as a temporary controller, either until Logitech makes one or Sony does.  There's no fucking excuse for the Sixaxis sucking more than the 360 controller except for either laziness or as a temporary solution to get the PS3 on shelves ASAP.

I'm no fan of controller-waggling, Christ knows, but it does have a chance of not sucking as much as the Wiimote.  Of course, it would not be hard to improve the Wiimote if a company was willing to invest the R&D and perhaps take a loss or lower margin to gain market share; as neat and new as it is, it still feels like they could have done it better.  Right now I can imagine that Sony is just buying Immersion's R&D time and simply sent an email saying "YOU MAKE WIIMOTE GO BYE BYE".  But will it work?

[schild]

The logitech PS3 controller, while not Bluetooth, feels a good deal tighter than the Logitech PS2 controller.

[Yegolev]

I wasn't aware there was one on the market, will have to check that out.  In October, no earlier.  If I had at least a good, dated rumor about a Sixaxis redesign, I'd be more comfortable with buying another controller.

[Rasix]

This news of a PS2 waggle machine does not make me happy.  I just don't see games *I* want to play coming out of this. 

[HaemishM]

I don't see ANY games coming out for a PSWiggler. What's the point of putting a wiggler on the PS2? Is Sony going to mandate developers make games for it? If they don't do that, it'll be super gimmicky. And even if they do mandate some games use it, they'll either be trash ports, or so minimal that all the bitches you guys have about Wii mini-games will count double for the PS2.

The $99 is a good deal. The waggle only means shit if there are games for it, and I mean games designed to make that thing sing. If the Madden 08 for the PS2 uses it, that'll be fantastic. If it's more Raving Rabbits... /meh. I already have a Wii.

[Margalis]

Again, introducing a new knock-off peripheral years and years after release when a successor system has already been released is pure desperation.

[schild]

Yea, I know, Microsoft sure is desperate when they release shitty products to compete with the iPod.

I think you all are missing the point. The Wii is a fart more powerful than the PS2. The PS2 has better games than the Wii will EVER HAVE. The PS2 has better online capability. The PS2 will have 120M+ installed during this Christmas. A waggle wand on the shelf cheaper than the Wiis. And you can be Damn Sure Sony will be paying people to make cross platform titles. Thereby making the Gamecube 2 the obsolete piece of dogshit it is.

of course, that's all if the rumor comes to fruition. If it doesn't, well, I'll say that the EGM rumor guy is a better business type than the people running SCEA.

[HaemishM]

A waggle wand on the shelf cheaper than the Wiis.

With less games, most likely. Sony can pay people all they want. I don't think the developers will be able to make enough waggle content before Christmas to compete with the Wii's waggle content at the same time, on quality or quantity.

of course, that's all if the rumor comes to fruition. If it doesn't, well, I'll say that the EGM rumor guy is a better business type than the people running SCEA.

One only needs to look at the marketing materials for the PS3 to believe that.

[CmdrSlack]

Yea, I know, Microsoft sure is desperate when they release shitty products to compete with the iPod.

I think you all are missing the point. The Wii is a fart more powerful than the PS2. The PS2 has better games than the Wii will EVER HAVE. The PS2 has better online capability. The PS2 will have 120M+ installed during this Christmas. A waggle wand on the shelf cheaper than the Wiis. And you can be Damn Sure Sony will be paying people to make cross platform titles. Thereby making the Gamecube 2 the obsolete piece of dogshit it is.

of course, that's all if the rumor comes to fruition. If it doesn't, well, I'll say that the EGM rumor guy is a better business type than the people running SCEA.

So now you're hanging your hopes for Sony back on the PS2?  The PS2 has a ton of great games, but how many can be made for a waggle controller by Xmas?  Or more directly, how many good ones that aren't just remakes of existing ones with some waggle controls shoehorned in?

Seriously man, I think you're over reaching on this one. If things keep going the way they are for Sony, I think I'll have to suggest that you get a scrip for Xanax -- it may be the key to your head not exploding. :D

[Chimpy]

All this talk of throwing money at people's waggle wands makes me think this thread is some kind of hidden Viagra advertisment. 

[schild]

Why am I reaching? It's the most plausible solution. And designing a waggle wand equal to if not better than the Wii one would be a joke for Immersion.

Or more directly, how many good ones that aren't just remakes of existing ones with some waggle controls shoehorned in?

You mean exactly like the Wii that everyone is buying like it's better than sex? Not many. That's what makes all of this so hilarious. All that happens at the end of the day is Sony has the only system that's proven itself, on store shelves, with 1200 games, for under $100 and it now has a waggle wand. Amazing. This is why they're Sony.

[Velorath]

of course, that's all if the rumor comes to fruition.

Apparently it's not.

[schild]

of course, that's all if the rumor comes to fruition.

Apparently it's not.

Well that didn't last long, though I suspect EGM knows more than Wired (even though it is Chris Kohler...) ever would or even any publicist at Sony. We'll see. Though a $99 PS2, maybe with 2 controllers or a game would be pretty damn amazing. Despite the PS3 being better at PS2 games, the PS2 is still the best value for a gaming system we're going to see for at least a generation or two.