Sony cutting jobs

[Sairon]

Why is it so much? I bet you spend more money on a TV, your sound system and a whole lot of other shit in your house which isn't necessary for living. And $600 for a console which will most likely see many times that in software is somehow to much cash to spend on a console?

[CmdrSlack]

Why is it so much? I bet you spend more money on a TV, your sound system and a whole lot of other shit in your house which isn't necessary for living. And $600 for a console which will most likely see many times that in software is somehow to much cash to spend on a console?

I've never spent more than $600 on anything that wasn't a computer. Since I work from home and sometimes not, a desktop and a laptop are both necessary for living. $600 for a console is almost three times the cost of my monthly car payment.

Maybe you make some obscene amount of cash, but others of us have kids and whatnot -- and don't make a ton of money on top of that. 

[Miasma]

And it's not really just $600 either, you would probably buy another controller and at least two or three games to make the purchase worthwhile.  Maybe you have to upgrade your router to wireless, I'd probably buy a couple blu-ray movies to see what all the fuss is about.  I'd have to buy an HDMI switcher because my TV only has one port.  With taxes that pushes the purchase into four digit land for me, once we get into that range whole new levels of mental oversight get activated in my head.  My impulse-buy demon gets shouted at and goes to mope in the corner.  It would have to actually be worth a thousand dollars and it just isn't.

Once it gets a nice library, in another year or so, by which time the price will probably have dropped I'll buy one.  I'd also buy one right now if it had recording capability.

Edit: And I mean straight burn to DVD recording, not some convoluted streaming to the hard drive hacked up by a few guys in their basement.

[Sairon]

Why is it so much? I bet you spend more money on a TV, your sound system and a whole lot of other shit in your house which isn't necessary for living. And $600 for a console which will most likely see many times that in software is somehow to much cash to spend on a console?

I've never spent more than $600 on anything that wasn't a computer. Since I work from home and sometimes not, a desktop and a laptop are both necessary for living. $600 for a console is almost three times the cost of my monthly car payment.

Maybe you make some obscene amount of cash, but others of us have kids and whatnot -- and don't make a ton of money on top of that. 

Didn't you work as a lawyer? Also, I wonder what kind of sallaries you have in the states if $600 is so unbearable. I could easily put away $200 a month and that's living as a student with no extra jobs. I'd just have to skip getting drunk a couple of weekends.

And it's not really just $600 either, you would probably buy another controller and at least two or three games to make the purchase worthwhile.

Aren't you planning on getting more than two or three games on the console anyway?

At this point in time it might not be worth $600 for the gaming, unless you want a BD player. However once the games starts to flow it's not that high of a price.

[CmdrSlack]

Didn't you work as a lawyer? Also, I wonder what kind of sallaries you have in the states if $600 is so unbearable. I could easily put away $200 a month and that's living as a student with no extra jobs. I'd just have to skip getting drunk a couple of weekends.

You're a student.  All of your income is disposable, and likely provided by mommy & daddy or student loans. Get off of your high horse, because you'll quickly realize that things are a bit different in the real world. Oh yeah, did I mention I'm trying to build a college fund for my daughter and a retirement plan for me and my wife?  It's not as simple as "not getting drunk a couple of weekends."

I have student loan payments, a car payment, rent, a kid to raise, bills, etc. I also am attempting to grow my own practice as opposed to working for someone else.  It's not going as well as I'd hoped and the job market is such that it's a bit tough for me to find one of those "magical high paying jobs." (Not for lack of effort either.) Grow up a bit and get some perspective before you go around telling people what is or isn't expensive. 

Like Miasma said, a PS3 purchase isn't simply $600.  There's controllers, games, and for me, an HDTV. That puts it well into the four figures category. Regardles of whether someone plans to buy games or not, that's not the point. It's not a cheap startup cost by any means.

[HaemishM]

You know why the PS3's price seems so crazy?

It isn't so much that $600 is a lot of money for people, though it is a lot of money for 1 luxury purchase that will probably get upgraded/replaced in 5 years or less. It's that the perception of the VALUE of the console is bad. You have less than 100 games, many of which look like shinier HD versions of last gen's games. Sure, it's got a Blu-Ray player, but were you really looking to upgrade your movie-watching machine? It's perceived value is not $600. At the same price as the 360, it MIGHT start looking like a better deal. Hell, at the $400 range, it starts looking like a great deal, because it's a built-in Blu-Ray player as opposed to the 360's add-on drive. At that price point, the Blu-Ray becomes a feature rather than a luxury. The 360 would still beat it on games, but that 1-year head start is huge.

In short, other than Blu-Ray which isn't perceived as a must-have yet, it has nothing worth mentioning over the 360, which is perceived as being $200 less expensive with more games. The motion-detection controls? Nothing anyone talks about uses them. I'd wager most casual console buyers don't even know the PS3 has it.

[Sairon]

Didn't you work as a lawyer? Also, I wonder what kind of sallaries you have in the states if $600 is so unbearable. I could easily put away $200 a month and that's living as a student with no extra jobs. I'd just have to skip getting drunk a couple of weekends.

You're a student.  All of your income is disposable, and likely provided by mommy & daddy or student loans. Get off of your high horse, because you'll quickly realize that things are a bit different in the real world. Oh yeah, did I mention I'm trying to build a college fund for my daughter and a retirement plan for me and my wife?  It's not as simple as "not getting drunk a couple of weekends."

I have student loan payments, a car payment, rent, a kid to raise, bills, etc. I also am attempting to grow my own practice as opposed to working for someone else.  It's not going as well as I'd hoped and the job market is such that it's a bit tough for me to find one of those "magical high paying jobs." (Not for lack of effort either.) Grow up a bit and get some perspective before you go around telling people what is or isn't expensive. 

Like Miasma said, a PS3 purchase isn't simply $600.  There's controllers, games, and for me, an HDTV. That puts it well into the four figures category. Regardles of whether someone plans to buy games or not, that's not the point. It's not a cheap startup cost by any means.

Hey man, it wasn't a punch at you, I was simply asking since I seem to recall you were into the law. I've had a working life for some time before I became a student and have been in the so called "real world". It's a bit diffrent here in Sweden, the goverment pays for studies and gives you part subsidy, partly really beneficial study loans. Do you think your current economical situation is that of the average working American? I think not. Look, I'm not saying $600 is peanuts that I throw around every month at stuff, I'm saying if you can afford a decent TV, a decent car, a decent whatever, then a bunch of year investment of $600 for your hobby should be fucking doable. My buddy who's 22 with a kid to support working as nurse with a low payed girlfriend has a PS3.

[CmdrSlack]

Do you think your current economical situation is that of the average working American?

At this point in my life, the average working American has more money than I do. 

[SnakeCharmer]

Why is it so much? I bet you spend more money on a TV, your sound system and a whole lot of other shit in your house which isn't necessary for living. And $600 for a console which will most likely see many times that in software is somehow to much cash to spend on a console?

I've never spent more than $600 on anything that wasn't a computer. Since I work from home and sometimes not, a desktop and a laptop are both necessary for living. $600 for a console is almost three times the cost of my monthly car payment.

Maybe you make some obscene amount of cash, but others of us have kids and whatnot -- and don't make a ton of money on top of that. 

Didn't you work as a lawyer? Also, I wonder what kind of sallaries you have in the states if $600 is so unbearable. I could easily put away $200 a month and that's living as a student with no extra jobs. I'd just have to skip getting drunk a couple of weekends.

And it's not really just $600 either, you would probably buy another controller and at least two or three games to make the purchase worthwhile.

Aren't you planning on getting more than two or three games on the console anyway?

At this point in time it might not be worth $600 for the gaming, unless you want a BD player. However once the games starts to flow it's not that high of a price.

To go a bit further on what CmdrSlack said:

600 dollars isn't chump change, and I do farily well financially.  There's a whooole lot of variables that goes into being an "adult" with real jobs:

Mortgage
Insurance
Home owners insurance
Car payments
Car insurance
Feeding a family of four (myself, wife, 7 mo old baby, 1 yr old boxer)
Vet bills
Animal rescue work we participate in
Charity donations
Incidentals for home and autorepair that I can't do myself
Gas
Utilities (cable, power, water, gas)
Outside interests:  Golf, fishing, gym memberships, tennis club memberships
Savings accounts
401K accounts, stock purchases, other investments for me, wife, child
Dinners out for me, wife, child


Yeah, we make more money than a college student, but we have more 'bills', some of which we can do without, some we can't.  It's all a matter of priority / perception.

[Rasix]

Didn't you have like 30 SWG accounts at one time?   :-D

[SnakeCharmer]

Didn't you have like 30 SWG accounts at one time?   :-D

Nah, most I ever had was three, I think. 

[Merusk]

Hey man, it wasn't a punch at you, I was simply asking since I seem to recall you were into the law. I've had a working life for some time before I became a student and have been in the so called "real world". It's a bit diffrent here in Sweden, the goverment pays for studies and gives you part subsidy, partly really beneficial study loans. Do you think your current economical situation is that of the average working American? I think not. Look, I'm not saying $600 is peanuts that I throw around every month at stuff, I'm saying if you can afford a decent TV, a decent car, a decent whatever, then a bunch of year investment of $600 for your hobby should be fucking doable. My buddy who's 22 with a kid to support working as nurse with a low payed girlfriend has a PS3.

Your buddy sacrificed something to do that, or built-up the savings because to him it was worth it. For the rest of us, with houses, kids, cars, loans, etc it's not.  From the sales figures of the PS3 we're not alone here, but getting the rest of you to realize that is like getting W. to admit he's wrong.

I'm very tempted to do a break-down at the median level for things.  $600 is a LOT of money for a lot of people, particularly families.  The people who have the decent tv, car, house, etc are also most likely still paying for them, whether it is credit cards or loans.  The budget I ran here using my own ballparking put that family at $1,375 a month left to pay income tax, doctor/ dentist bills, clothing, daycare, water/ sewer, garbage collection and household maintainence.. not including the stuff like savings and retirement and who else knows what I forgot.  Taxes alone will eat up most of it (~$900).

Ed: I  posted anyway even after I saw SC had posted.  I'd been ballparking and was going to post it but said fuckit.   He did tick one thing I forgot.. insurance. Damnit.

[Sairon]

To go a bit further on what CmdrSlack said:

600 dollars isn't chump change, and I do farily well financially.  There's a whooole lot of variables that goes into being an "adult" with real jobs:

Mortgage
Insurance
Home owners insurance
Car payments
Car insurance
Feeding a family of four (myself, wife, 7 mo old baby, 1 yr old boxer)
Vet bills
Animal rescue work we participate in
Charity donations
Incidentals for home and autorepair that I can't do myself
Gas
Utilities (cable, power, water, gas)
Outside interests:  Golf, fishing, gym memberships, tennis club memberships
Savings accounts
401K accounts, stock purchases, other investments for me, wife, child
Dinners out for me, wife, child


Yeah, we make more money than a college student, but we have more 'bills', some of which we can do without, some we can't.  It's all a matter of priority / perception.

As I said before, it's all about prioritizing. I don't know, but I would think most people here would have gaming as their main hobby. There's numerous things on that list that isn't must haves. A decent golf bag and the money spent on golfing is easily in the same ballpark as gaming, if not more expensive. Yes my buddy didn't have to get a PS3, and I agree that the PS3 isn't worth it as a gaming machine atm. But just as some of you buy Wii for potential, some people buy the PS3 for potential.

[HaemishM]

I bought my Wii for what it had at launch, as well as its potential. I'm one of those crazy fuckers who like Zelda and LOVE Red Steel.

[schild]

LOVE Red Steel.

Nobody believes you.

Nobody.

Not even Jesus.

And Jesus believes in everyone.

[murdoc]

Arguing about whether the PS3 is too expensive or not is a matter of perspective. For me, it's too expensive because I already have a 360 and the games I'm interested in are largely going to be released on the Xbox. Right now, $600 isn't a bad price at all for a PS3 if you go in with the understanding that you're not just getting a gaming machine, but you are early adapting the Blu-Ray format. For someone who just wants a gaming machine, the 360 at $200 cheaper IS a better deal.

Whether or not Sony messed up by have the BR built in, that's the discussion imo.

[Roac]

Arguing about whether the PS3 is too expensive or not is a matter of perspective. For me, it's too expensive because I already have a 360 and the games I'm interested in are largely going to be released on the Xbox. Right now, $600 isn't a bad price at all for a PS3 if you go in with the understanding that you're not just getting a gaming machine, but you are early adapting the Blu-Ray format. For someone who just wants a gaming machine, the 360 at $200 cheaper IS a better deal.

If you want *just* Blu-Ray, the PS3 is a good deal.  If you want Blu-Ray and gaming, the PS3 is a great deal.  If you just want gaming, PS3 is a shitty deal.  If you don't have an HD TV, the PS3 isn't even worth discussing.

[CmdrSlack]

As I said before, it's all about prioritizing. I don't know, but I would think most people here would have gaming as their main hobby. There's numerous things on that list that isn't must haves.

You've already noted that your education is largely subsidized by the state, which must be nice. It may be true that it's about priorities, but I have to say that mine lie with keeping my daughter clothed, fed and housed. The rest is just necessary spending to make sure the rest of that happens (i.e. without a car, I can't get to half the work that I do -- the not at home stuff).  When the PS3 pays for her college education, puts food on the table and pays the rent, I guess it'll be worth making a priority. Until then, I'll be content to not be a real gamer, I guess....heck, my PS2 library is under 30 games -- and I bought most of those while I was still single.

[Velorath]

As I said before, it's all about prioritizing.

And Sony hasn't done anything to make spending $600 a priority for most people (and they especially haven't done anything to make it a priority for people who didn't buy into the PS2 until it was between $179-129).  Even for people who love gaming, there's just better ways to spend our money right now.

[Margalis]

$600 is a lot - for a piece of crap. $600 is not a lot for a new house but it sure is for a system that does nothing existing systems don't already do better.

[Rasix]

Come again?

[schild]

Come again?

Apparently the Wii does something better than other systems. I'm not sure what it is. But it does something.

[HaemishM]

LOVE Red Steel.

Nobody believes you.

Nobody.

Not even Jesus.

And Jesus believes in everyone.

I don't give two fucks if you believe me. I LOVED RED STEEL. I want Red Steel 2. I want that game to be refined, so that the flaws it had are removed or reduced. It wasn't a perfect game. It wasn't robot jesus. But it kicked all kinds of ass, IMO. YMMV.

[schild]

Actually, I think it's Your Mileage May Vary, and only yours, since everyone else I know - and the rest of the Wiitardnet - hated the damn thing.

Also, interesting responses in a thread over at NeoGAF about the constant patching these days of games, in particular:

I will gladly choose simpler games over complex ones, if that means no patches.

And that's your right. But don't be surprised if many of us disagree -- not everyone wants to be part of the Wii Luddite movement.

Indeed.

[Velorath]

Also, interesting responses in a thread over at NeoGAF

By which you apparently mean that you found some random guy on the Internet that agrees with your point of view.  Um... congrats?

[schild]

Also, interesting responses in a thread over at NeoGAF

By which you apparently mean that you found some random guy on the Internet that agrees with your point of view.  Um... congrats?

Actually, I'd never called it a luddite movement. Not once. By which I meant, interesting perspective.

[sigil]

I'm glad I dropped out of this portion of the conversation.

It's really funny to watch this develop.

Haemish declares his love for a game most people hated, Schild going progressively  further off the deep end with his hatred of the Wii,  coupled with the belief that Sony evidently does no wrong or something. (Not trying to put words in your mouth, it's just how it looks)

Now enter the "I've got  $600 bucks in my couch cushions / poor people ruin it for everyone" battle with the " I've got a family and can't blow  a grand on something which doesn't really do a whole lot right now" forces.

[Stephen Zepp]

May as well add some gasoline:

Analyst: Fraction Of Console Owners Using Video Capabilities (Gamasutra)

Said report author Dale Gilliam III, “Today’s next-generation games consoles such as the Xbox 360 or Sony PS3 are true digital multimedia powerhouses. Yet very few of these devices are connected to the Internet and, even though these same platforms may feature a high-definition DVD playback system, very few consumers are using them for non-gaming media applications.”

[Velorath]

Actually, I'd never called it a luddite movement. Not once. By which I meant, interesting perspective.

It's not interesting though.  It's really, really not.  It's just namecalling and it's not even wrapped around any sort of a solid point.

[Margalis]

Isn't there a stat that says something like 66% of HDTV owners don't even have them hooked up to do HD?

Anyway my point above was that arguing about whether $600 is too much is silly - $600 is way too much for some things and a great deal for other things. At this point the PS3 does nothing either the 360 or Wii does better, so $600 is too much. It is clearly the inferior product at this point. And again, the real competitor here is MS. If you want a "hardcore" system the system to buy is the 360.

Look, it's pretty simple. The 360 costs the same or less and is better to boot.

[Yegolev]

Maybe you don't realize that an Original Recipe 360 plus HD-DVD unit will cost you $600?

If there were a cheaper version of the PS3 sans Blu-Ray, Sony probably wouldn't be getting stomped this hard.

They would, because Sony dropped the Exclusive Ball and are a year behind the 360.  Hardware costs are about the same with similar functionality despite perspectives, but XBL is fully armed and operational while PSN isn't really worth looking at, and Zee Games are not on PS3.  This holiday season will hopefully rectify both of those issues but time will tell.  Home needs to beat Achievements as well as the game offerings on XBL; the reason I got the 360 version of Oblivion was due to the download situation!  Getting exclusives worth a damn will take longer, I think.

That Gamasutra article is unsurprising.  I have a DVD player already, so I am not going to bother with using one of the consoles unless it breaks.

[schild]

Schild going progressively  further off the deep end with his hatred of the Wii,  coupled with the belief that Sony evidently does no wrong or something. (Not trying to put words in your mouth, it's just how it looks)

Sony has done tons of wrong. The PS3 is the most well put together, full-featured console I've ever seen. It doesn't have enough games.
 
Nintendo simply hasn't proven the Wiimote to me. At all. The Wii is a gamecube with a spoiler. It doesn't have enough games.

[sigil]

Stop surfing 4chan.

*removed some stuff*

I"m sure they'll do just fine, it's just going to be a year or two for  it to pick up.

[schild]

I'm making a shirt with that image on it.

[HaemishM]

That image is teh win.