New and Improved Poker thread

[UD_Delt]

Still, it sucks major balls and can put you on tilt if you make the statistically right call and watch them make that out they so desperately needed.  As much as I try to be  when that happens, I'm usually  .

You're giving me ideas for a Vegas trip though.

I posted a little bit longer (and probably less interesting) trip report here:
http://www.allvegaspoker.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4579

[WayAbvPar]

I have the same problem. NL is a very different feel from limit- being able to go broke with one badly played hand is sobering.

Thanks for the TR link! I am a sucker for Vegas stories 

[UD_Delt]

Interesting timing as I was typing the last post our daily newsletter hit my inbox and had this article...

http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/glr.2008.12105?cookieSet=1

[WayAbvPar]

Interesting. Now have someone staple that study to Kyl's forehead and let's get the UIGEA revoked, or at least a poker exception written into it.

[Abagadro]

Nice TR. You got me salivating over the MGM room. I'm staying at the MGM Signature which are those condo towers right behind the main place starting tomorrow. I'll probably end up playing there a bit although I've been battling a wicked chest cold for 5 days now and I think that is still a smoking room, so I might have to go to Bellagio instead.

[El Gallo]

Ding! I hate NL ring games and they have become a cancer on B&M poker rooms.

I agree. The NL craze is really annoying me. 

A bit late here, but I was in Phoenix over Super Bowl weekend (no, we didn't get tickets) and the casino there is fucking limit game gold.  There's apparently some state law limiting the maximum size of any particular bet to $150 or something, so they basically can't run no-limit games.  They do run some sort of capped pot limit game, but the overwhelming majority of the tables are limit games. It's like pre-poker-on-ESPN-every-day all over again.

[Abagadro]

Hey man, long time no see!

I loved playing down there at the Indian place up the freeway from Scottsdale (Casino Arizona or some such) and I agree with your take. I took down the largest limit pot in my poker career in that place playing 4-8. Went to the river 5 ways capped every street and I had a baby boat. Funny thing was that I didn't raise a single time.

[UD_Delt]

Nice TR. You got me salivating over the MGM room. I'm staying at the MGM Signature which are those condo towers right behind the main place starting tomorrow. I'll probably end up playing there a bit although I've been battling a wicked chest cold for 5 days now and I think that is still a smoking room, so I might have to go to Bellagio instead.

The MGM room is no smoking but it's basically open to the rest of the casino so while you won't have someone puffing away right next to you you'll still smell the smoke. The air circulation seemed decent though and I was able to adjust, even coming from Ohio where EVERYTHING is now no smoking.

The odd thing about the MGM room was I actually found the afternoon games to be fishier than the early evening games. It seemed there were more hit-and-runs during the afternoon where people would sit with $200 knowing they only have an hour or two to play before the wife/girlfriend would drag them away and they'd end up playing very laggy because of that.

Almost every night I played around 9:00PM the same group of 7-8 locals wanna-be pro's came in and played either $1/$2 NL or $2/$5 NL. Having 2 or 3 of them at your table really tightens things up and people just aren't drunk enough yet for the games to be stellar.

Of course post 2:00AM was also a good time as that's when my drunk Canadian friend sat down and decided to donk off a couple buy-ins including calling down to the river over $100 without ever looking at his cards.

[Abagadro]

Had to cancel my trip. 

[WayAbvPar]

Owwie. I feel your pain.

[Abagadro]

We were able to reschedule without losing any money. The hotel was really cool about it as their policy is actually to forfeit the deposit for changes but they didn't do that and Southwest Airlines seriously kicks ass.  We'll actually end up saving about 150 bucks. Heh.

[UD_Delt]

We were able to reschedule without losing any money. The hotel was really cool about it as their policy is actually to forfeit the deposit for changes but they didn't do that and Southwest Airlines seriously kicks ass.  We'll actually end up saving about 150 bucks. Heh.

Nice. So you still get to go?

Just a bit later than expected?

[Abagadro]

Ya, going later next month. We are cursed with vacations though so who knows. The last two we have tried both had to be canceled, once because my wife go sick and this time because I did.

[WayAbvPar]

Does Alaska fly out of SLC? They have a pretty damned good mileage program. They recently added a dining club that gives you miles when you eat at certain restaurants (lots of them in my area, obviously, - haven't checked Utah). Between that, Safeway miles, and flying back and forth to SoCal for work a couple of years back, I have a free round trip ticket ready to go. Used credit card miles last time...I am hoping I can work it so I rarely have to pay for a plane ticket. If only I was a high roller who could get a hotel to fly me in 

[Abagadro]

Not sure if they do but if so they aren't a big presence. Southwest has 8 flights to Vegas from SLC daily so they are very convenient. I was just amazed that they simply let us change the flight. My wife had already checked in for this flight that was scheduled for this afternoon (wouldn't let me check in online because I am on the no fly list, yay!) yet they still just switched the ticked straight up this morning and because the fare was lower we have a $30 credit with them.

EDIT: Going to be there (hopefully) from April 17-20 if anyone else is going to be around.

[WayAbvPar]

I can't swing it until the fall, if then.

[UD_Delt]

I'll be back out May 15-18th for a bachelor party 

Two trips to vegas in 3 months. Maybe I can convince the wife we should make a third trip out in Sept or Oct for our vacation together. Doubtful but ya gotta have a dream...

[LK]

I hopped up to Vegas Saturday morning at 1 am after a decent payday.  I arrived at 6 am and sat down at the MGM Poker Room.  It seems nice but I'm surprised that all these poker rooms felt so small.  I sat down at $1 / $2 NL and played for about 2 hours, finishing up $100 up.  At that point I needed to sleep and then went to my room (car).  2 hours of fitless sleep, or as I like to call it, "Power Nap", I got up and decided to walk over to the Excalibur.

The Excalibur sucks.

I lost the $100 and went as far as an additional $700 down due to some massively bad beats.  I'm talking KK's being cracked by 99's on the river, A9 vs. A8 losing to an 8 on the river, etc.  There was a pot with about $800 in the pot, I had a flush draw, two other guys had a straight, and the fourth guy had two pair.  I was trying to just call but every other person in the hand kept raising, such that I'd call the raise and then the guy after me would re-raise on the turn.  But if I hit that flush, I would have gotten up and probably enjoyed the rest of my Vegas trip.

Nope!

The guy who made the biggest raise ($100) on the two-pair hit his full house and sucked out everyone else.  So I played for awhile and managed to work my way back up to $200 down after a rally of good cards, but I was still getting out of there at 9 pm, vowing never to go back.

I wandered Vegas for awhile, but ultimately was too tired, felt like I was too cheap, sober (I was feeling pretty bad and didn't feel like drinking), modest and friendless to really enjoy Vegas, and went back to my room (car) to try and get 8 hours of sleep.

3 hours later...

I decided to wake up and go to the MGM again, hoping that the 2 am nuts was true.  It was! But I didn't get the cards to support it.  I ended up another $200 down for a trip total of about $500 spent including cash and food.  Two people at the table I'm at bought in for $200 and walked away with $1000.  Those were the guys who managed to consistently hit hands that improved theirs.  After about 6 am, I lost my $200 buy-in and just decided to drive back home instead of trying to spend Sunday in Vegas.  I was rather feeling like playing video games.

If I'm in Vegas for whatever reason I'll go back, but I'm not going to drive up there by myself again, that's for sure.

[UD_Delt]

Awesome...

Another huge scandal in online poker as Ultimate Bet is going down in flames. I'm still reading through the thread but it's pretty interesting:

• More SuperUser accounts that can see hole cards
• Links to the AP scandal (same guy bought both AP & UB)
• Millions of dollars in refunds
• Links to organized crime etc...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=214625&page=3

Look for the posts by Cornell Fiji for the detailed info...

[WayAbvPar]

Yeah, that has been a serious clusterfuck for over a year now. I can't believe people still play there.

I have been shortstacking NL200 on PS. I am still learning the ins and outs of NL cash, so I shortstack to mitigate the costs of any mistakes while still playing high enough to earn FPPs at a decent rate (should make Silver Star this month). I have had a pretty damned good month overall- tripled my account balance (but have taken about 40% of  that out).

[UD_Delt]

I still play on FullTilt and Stars probably about 4-5 hours per week.

The last 5-6 months though have been frustrating. I've consistently followed the same pattern of playing $5-$10 sit&go's, slowly grinding and winning around $100, taking that $100 and 4-tabling NL25 and losing it all in a single night.

You may ask why I don't just concentrate on Sit&Go's and move up levels there? My only answer would be that I am functionally retarded...

[WayAbvPar]

That, and the fact that playing Sit N Go's all the time would drive you insane. The Variance Beast feasts on those damned things.

[LK]

Had the need to spend time playing poker this weekend.  Smart decision on my part... went to the local casino and have racked up about $930.

Memorable Hands:

JJ vs AK & K9, Flop are all undercards, Turn = King, so I'm out $60 there.

A9 Suited, Flop = K, 5, 9, K & 5 are my suit.  Bet $25 on the flop, one caller.  Next card is a 9.  Bet $50, caller pushes All-In after much anguish, I call, $500 (total) in the pot.  He had KQ.  Next card: K.  Nailed one of his two outs! Ugh!

Those were the bad ones... now here's the fun one.

I have AQ and bet $15 pre-flop.  I have one caller: the guy to my immediate left who was LITERALLY packing up about $250 in chips and was going to leave the table.  Flop comes down AA5.  I bet $20 this time, he calls.  Next card is a Q.  I bet $40.  He calls.  Next card is a 10.  I put him All-In, he calls.  He had pocket 10's.  I flipped my Full House and did a dance.  The guy put the empty rack aside and walked away with maybe $20 in chips all sadface.

I'm the Big Blind with AA (I had AA like 5 times, all uncracked, all big paydays, AK, JJ, KK, so many good cards that day), everyone's called.  I bet 15.  EVERYONE calls except the guy before the dealer button who pushes all in for $35.  He's ready to leave.  One caller, one fold.  I bet $200.  I get amazed reactions of "WTF?" as everyone around folds and the second caller pushes all-in for $86.  I throw my Aces over and much swearing ensues.  The $86 all in guy had AJ.  One other guy at the table had AK but folded them since I had him covered (Damn!).

Edit: Weekend total came to $1215 earned, minus expenses, not including a gas tank refill ($50).  Third day at the casino wasn't as magical as Saturday but I still made out alright, but there was a stretch where I got nothing for about 2 or 3 solid hours.  Most of the money I made came in the end (flopping straights or hitting my flushes on the turn / river).

[Nebu]

Reading your post has reminded me that pickup games at local casinos are more about luck and drawing cards than playing ability.  The more mainstream poker has gotten, the less fun the game has become.  Bluffing is all but pointless in most houses as people will call you with rags for the hope of snagging something on the turn or river.  Sadly, they often get rewarded for their actions. 


Note: No offense to your personal playign ability was intended.

[Abagadro]

If you don't go to the table hoping and praying that people call you with rags you are doing it wrong.

[LK]

The most important thing I learned about this session is that I'm able to better handle when things go bad.  As much as  as the KQ guy was, I was still able to keep going and end up on top.  If I had quit right there I'd be $1100 poorer.

I still have a physical limit of about 6 hours or so, longer depending if I see good cards every now and then, and I'm able to play the people more than playing the cards (though having the cards helps), and I'm able to do the right bets, so I think I've hit a good level where I can make good money in poker.  I used to hang in arcades and watch people play games, so I don't view this as anything different.

[Nebu]

If you don't go to the table hoping and praying that people call you with rags you are doing it wrong.

I guess what I'm trying to articulate is that I would rather lose to a skilled player that flat outplayed me than someone that doesn't understand the game hitting hot cards all afternoon.  I find the latter too frustrating to be enjoyable.  Since I don't play cards for a living, it's really about the enjoyment I get from the game.  

I understand what you're saying Ab.  I'd just rather play with good players and lose than win money from a frustrating experience.  My fun comes from an appreciation of the game far more than winning a few dollars. 

[WayAbvPar]

I'd just rather play with good players and lose

Come play at my table any time. People who would rather lose are always welcome.

I had AA like 5 times, all uncracked, all big paydays, AK, JJ, KK, so many good cards that day

My last two hands in cash games with AA (these were about 10 minutes apart, btw)-

 
POKERSTARS GAME #18611339368:  HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2008/07/05 - 21:41:44 (ET)

Table 'Marcelle' 9-max Seat #9 is the button

Seat 1: Aussieboy355 ($32 in chips)

Seat 2: zawaaa ($120 in chips)

Seat 3: SongheJe ($40 in chips)

Seat 4: ChipRick ($325.35 in chips)

Seat 6: MUCKUALL 111 ($150.90 in chips)

Seat 7: Noa Stephan ($381.60 in chips)

Seat 8: wayabvpar ($78.75 in chips)

Seat 9: Hitman-180 ($292.90 in chips)

Aussieboy355: posts small blind $1

zawaaa: posts big blind $2

Senecady: sits out

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to wayabvpar [As Ac]

SongheJe: folds

ChipRick: folds

MUCKUALL 111: folds

Noa Stephan: folds

wayabvpar: raises $4 to $6

Hitman-180: calls $6

Aussieboy355: folds

zawaaa: raises $14 to $20

wayabvpar: raises $58.75 to $78.75 and is all-in

Hitman-180: calls $72.75

zawaaa: raises $41.25 to $120 and is all-in

Hitman-180: calls $41.25

*** FLOP *** [2c Qs Ks]

*** TURN *** [2c Qs Ks] [4h]

*** RIVER *** [2c Qs Ks 4h] [8h]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

zawaaa: shows [Kd Kh] (three of a kind, Kings)

Hitman-180: mucks hand

zawaaa collected $82.50 from side pot

wayabvpar: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)

zawaaa collected $234.25 from main pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $319.75 Main pot $234.25. Side pot $82.50. | Rake $3

Board [2c Qs Ks 4h 8h]

Seat 1: Aussieboy355 (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 2: zawaaa (big blind) showed [Kd Kh] and won ($316.75) with three of a kind, Kings

Seat 3: SongheJe folded before Flop (didn't bet)



POKERSTARS GAME #18611548250:  HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2008/07/05 - 21:53:08 (ET)

Table 'Lagrula' 9-max Seat #2 is the button

Seat 1: Noa Stephan ($184 in chips)

Seat 2: Aussieboy355 ($34 in chips)

Seat 3: BenHoganJr ($366.85 in chips)

Seat 4: Zween78 ($37 in chips)

Seat 5: mrhotpicks2 ($95.85 in chips)

Seat 6: OleLucky ($381.35 in chips)

Seat 7: omnishakira ($203 in chips)

Seat 8: wayabvpar ($90 in chips)

Seat 9: SongheJe ($75.75 in chips)

BenHoganJr: posts small blind $1

Zween78: posts big blind $2

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to wayabvpar [Ah Ac]

mrhotpicks2: calls $2

OleLucky: folds

omnishakira: folds

wayabvpar: raises $8 to $10

SongheJe: folds

Noa Stephan: folds

Aussieboy355: folds

BenHoganJr: folds

Zween78: folds

mrhotpicks2: raises $25 to $35

wayabvpar: raises $55 to $90 and is all-in

mrhotpicks2: calls $55

*** FLOP *** [Jc Qc Th]

*** TURN *** [Jc Qc Th] [Qd]

*** RIVER *** [Jc Qc Th Qd] [Ts]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

mrhotpicks2: shows [Ad Ks] (a straight, Ten to Ace)

wayabvpar: shows [Ah Ac] (two pair, Aces and Queens)

mrhotpicks2 collected $180 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $183 | Rake $3

Board [Jc Qc Th Qd Ts]

Seat 1: Noa Stephan folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 2: Aussieboy355 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 3: BenHoganJr (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 4: Zween78 (big blind) folded before Flop

Seat 5: mrhotpicks2 showed [Ad Ks] and won ($180) with a straight, Ten to Ace

Seat 6: OleLucky folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 7: omnishakira folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 8: wayabvpar showed [Ah Ac] and lost with two pair, Aces and Queens

Seat 9: SongheJe folded before Flop (didn't bet)





~80% favorite in the first hand, ~91% in the second hand. Got all my money in as a huge favorite both times. Also lost 2 huge pots with KK the past couple of days. Poker is a cruel game.

Good news is I took $500 out of my account to help pay for my new golf clubs!

[Nebu]

I'd just rather play with good players and lose

Come play at my table any time. People who would rather lose are always welcome.

Nice work twisting the quote. 

Tough beat on the trip kings.  Ouch.

[Abagadro]

I can sympathze with how frustrating suckouts can be Nebu.  One of the problems with today's game is that it is hard to find a good low or mid limit game.  Everything is no limit now.  Getting sucked out on in limit can at least be semi-fun because you only lose a limited amount of big bets, you can give the guy some grief, get the table loosened up, and be pretty confident that it will come back around to you with the percentages evening out.  With the NL game, one big suckout can put you to the felt and then you watch the nitwit dump your chips to a decent player so you likely won't get them back.  No limit has wildly increased variance and therefore the time horizon for long term success in evening out the suckouts is much longer.  If you don't play much your individual session will be far more sensitive to that variation, so I can understand how you would feel that way.

That said, I'd still rather play with fish than sharks.  You just need to adjust.  No bluffing, value betting and playing hands that work well in multiway pots in late position become keys to those types of games.

[LK]

No bluffing, value betting and playing hands that work well in multiway pots in late position become keys to those types of games.

What kind of cards are those? I got a lot of mileage out of the first two and I THINK I'm doing the third...

[LK]

Dealt: Ks, 10d

Flop: As, Qs, some card (don't remember)

Turn: Js

River: 10s

3 other people made flushes on the river.   Only one folded after I lead off with a $20 dollar bet and 2 went all in (too bad they were some of the smaller stacks).  I imagine that may be the only time in my life I'll get that hand.

Browsing the poker thread, found this humorous.  From Sunday's Game:

Dealt: Ah 10c, raise to 10, 1 or 2 callers.

Flop: 10d, 7h, 6h.  I bet 15 or 20, one caller. 

Turn: 10h.  I chuckle a bit and bet 30.  The guy called. 

River: 4h.  I told the guy "Boy you are getting a lot of help there." before betting $50.  He tossed the chips in and I flipped my flush.  Much disgust ensued.

I saw some pretty hilarious expressions when I would play people into thinking I didn't hit the flush or was only playing top pair.

[Abagadro]

Suited connectors, small pairs (only until the flop to see if you get a set) and Ax suited.  You need to bein late position, have an unraisesd pot with multiple people in before you and a good sense that it won't be raised after you or if it will thwn everyone will come along for a cheap raise.  You need to be willing to let them go on the flop if you don't hit or have solid pot odds to take a card.  Decent NL players will screw with every one of these conditions which makes it tough to play them in that type of game.

[LK]

That's somewhat what I figured.  Suited Connectors got me some big money last night by flopping a straight vs. KK's.

[LK]

Tuesday night a bad time to play? The poker success I was having has gotten me to want to go back in my free time and ride this pony until I stop.  But I think going on Friday, Saturday and Sunday on a Holiday Weekend helped contribute to people making stupid calls.  Not sure... but I know I read something in a poker book about how going certain days is a good / very bad thing.