New and Improved Poker thread

[trias_e]

I play semi-profesionally on tilt.  (not that I'm that good, but I don't have a job and try to play as if it were my job atm).  Night time any night should be decent, but the weekends are always much softer.  Just don't play between 2-6 EST weekdays imo.  Worst time to play ever.  Earlier than that you have euro fish playing late, later than that you have north american people coming home from work.  In the middle are the people who don't have anything to do but play poker all day which is generally fail.

Life has been pretty awesome for me pokerwise the last few months.  I took first in a 1400 person $10 rebuy tourney, and then moved up to 1/2 and have been crushing it so far, albeit at a very low sample size.

As far as suited connectors go, remember that they are pretty useless unless you are deep enough to make your implied odds worth it.   Definitely never call a raise out of position or if you are not both deep stacked.  Unless you have a read that you can bluff the guy off of hands it will not be profitable in the long run.  Nothing wrong with being first in pot late position raising with sc or suited gappers tho, that should be pretty standard, and many players won't put you on those hands.

Abagadro, I'm in SLC as well, if you'd ever like to talk poker let me know. 

[Abagadro]

Cool man.  Grats on running well.  Do you ever go out to Wendover to play?  My trip frequency has gone way down as the games out there seem to have turned to shit.

[trias_e]

I only played there a few times, and was not particularly impressed.  I always meant to go out more though, because I definitely need to practice my live game.

I did used to go to vegas fairly often with some friends when gas prices were lower.  Unfortunately, the cost of that trip is pretty brutal these days.


Off topic but poker related, this is probably the best photoshop I've ever seen:  http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=244128

[WayAbvPar]

Hahaha that is awesome. They needed to 'shop some dice in his hands though.

Any online players interested in a friendly low limit SnG on PS? Gimme a holler and we can set something up.

[LK]

I used to do online but it sort of defeats the point of what I'm trying to do now ... get out and be around other people and be social.

Scored another $230 at the tables last night.  I am going to see how long I can keep this streak up, though I did have one big gamble last night (A 10 with top pair (10's) vs. JJ's, $100 bet, got Ace on the River) that would have affected my take by about $170 (my stack after the call).

[Margalis]

I would love to do a friendly little F13 poker game on PS, haven't played in ages.

[Abagadro]

I'd like to play too but don't have any money on PS and don't know how to fund an account under the new rules.

[WayAbvPar]

I hadn't had any money on there for at least a year. A friend of mine still played, and I asked him how he funded his account. He told me he just used his credit union debit card. I have an account at the same CU, so I tried it. Easy enough! Unfortunately, cashing out is a bit more of a PITA, but if I do it in chunks of $500 or more it is also pretty easy.

If you want to arrange something via Paypal or the like I can probably front you a couple of hundred. PM me.

[Lanei]

I won by losing a few weeks back at the local casino.

I'd been playing 3-6 limit for about 2 hours, was getting to know the people at the table and was up about $80 on top of the $100 I started with.

I was in early position and was dealt AA.  Raised pre-flop, got 3 callers, one on the button.  Flop was 88A.  I bet, 2 folds, button raises, I call.  Turn 10.  Bet, raise, call.  River 10.  Check, bet, call.   Button says to me "you have the aces?"  I turn them up.  He says "Jackpot!" and flips over his pocket 8s.

Fort McDowell casino (east from Scottsdale AZ, in Fountian Hills) has a progressive bad-beat jackpot running.. it ticks upward based on the rake they are getting from the tables running in the poker room.  If a full-house or better is beat by quads or better, the jackpot pays to the table, with the losing hand on the table (that'd be my aces full of 10s) getting 50%, the winning hand (quad 8s) getting 25%, and the rest of the table splitting the last 25%.

Slightly sour grapes that the jackpot had been won the previous day, about 25 hours previously so it 'only' had $5,300 in it.. so I "only" took home a check for $2650 for losing a hand of poker.  Yeah, I'll take that.

[Abagadro]

Nice.

[LK]

Playing at a $500 Buy-In No Limit table because I'm *crazy like that.* One very aggressive player who is bullying the table with $100+ bets always manages to raise it to $40 or something ($10 / $5 blinds) right when I get pocket pair. First two times, overcards come down on the board, I can't do anything, I fold. Third time, I get pocket 8's, and table bully bets $75, much higher than normal. I'm up to a respectable $800 (putting me at even for the day) and he's got over $2000. I call and see the flop.

Flop: 4d, 5h, 6d

He's ahead of me, and bets $125. I FIGURE he has pocket pair, a high one, but his history has been that he bets aggressively with A something. My spidey sense is tingling and I push in $300. He gets all anxious and asks how much of my stack is left. I tell him $430ish along with "Boy you don't back down huh?" as he stands up and starts playing with his chips.

He pushes me All-In, I say fuck it. Next card is a 6 of clubs, I think, and a King of Hearts. I flip over my pocket pair and he stares dumbfounded and flips his AQ suited. He was on a diamond flush draw.

Everyone at the table gave me grats, and I went home with much more than I expected.

[UD_Delt]

I seem to have issues lately playing online. I've been trying to build my bankroll back up a bit and I will play within my means for a while... My means being either $10NL or $25NL. After losing buy-in after buy-in and running from $250ish down to $150ish I'll jump to either $100NL or $200NL with everything I have left and win it all back. Then I regain my senses and move back down to $10 or $25NL and start losing again.

I'm really very frustrated with the whole situation. I know part of it is that I just can't seem to take a 40cent raise seriously and then i get myself in trouble but it's also things that only seem to happen at NL$25 like people shoving all-in with 67o vs. my AA and hitting or moving all-in on complete bluffs and hitting runner runner 4 high flushes to beat my set. That then puts me on monkey tilt and I blow off 2-3 more buy-ins.

I think I'm going to have to give up again for a while. Either that or just play NL$100 until I bust my roll and call it a day.

[WayAbvPar]

I have had some success shortstacking NL200. I originally did it to work off a bonus (FPPs come faster at higher levels), but found out it works for me. It is a good way to limit the bankroll damage while you are still learning- I buy in for $40 each time. Best run I had, I cashed out just over $300. I am still a NL cash n00b, so the deeper the stacks, the less confident I feel.

[LK]

It's very hard to intimidate at lower stakes, especially based on the players.  The minimum I'll play is $100 NL with $3 / $2 blinds, but I'm starting to get turned on to $300 NL with $5 / $3 blinds. It's triple the stack size for only ~2x the blinds.

[WayAbvPar]

There is no need to intimidate. If people are calling with too many hands (IE making it hard to bluff), then don't bluff. Just value bet the living shit out of your good hands, and they will come right along for the ride.

[LK]

I gotta look up value betting then.

[Margalis]

It's just betting so that you think they'll call and lose and hence dump you a few more chips.

[LK]

Ah yeah, that. 

[Margalis]

Low stakes poker is all about value betting since people just don't fold.

It's all about getting the best hand then maximizing your take. That may mean value betting or it may mean keeping people in to let them improve (but not enough to beat you) so that you can check-raise them later or whatever. Low stakes poker can be a bit boring in that clever plays don't work.

It's like playing a fighting game. If you are playing someone with decent skill you can fuck with their expectations. If they know how to block correctly you can make them block a few times then throw them. But if they are a random spazz you can't get fancy, all you can do is rely on very basic strategies that assume no skill or knowledge on their part.

So low-stakes is kind of boring in some ways, but it is good for learning discipline and sharpening your ability to squeeze the maximum amount from each hand. It's all about asking yourself "how do I play this to make the most money?"

[UD_Delt]

Finally had a good night last night at NL$10. Up almost 4 buy-ins even after getting stacked when I had AA by a set of 10's.

My stats are near ridiculous though. I think during the about 1000 hand stretch I was about 12% VPIP and about 4% PFR.

[LK]

I've managed to double up every night since Saturday except for Tuesday where I fought back to 70 up. It's been a really good fucking week.

Edit: Today ends my streak. I spent a LOOOONG time Saturday being down as much as $600 before soaring up to $900 up, going back down to even, then soaring back up to $900 up. Then I walk in on Sunday and lose $600 in 2 hands. I wasn't able to recover and lost all the money I made on Saturday, which is when I decided to stop for awhile. I think my policy is if I lose 3 Buy-Ins. I USED to say $300 but then I kept going on the $300 table. So if I do go back anytime soon I'll be on the $100 table.  I don't really want to erase the strong gains I made from Sat - Fri.

Oh, and the best part? Besides all the bad beats that led to losing Saturday's gains, the moment I lost it all, the next table over of $300 hit a super jackpot. (Straight Flush v Straight Flush)

[UD_Delt]

So I spent some time reviewing a few videos. I found a couple that really helped. I switched over to 6-max $10NL instead of full ring. I also amped the aggression way up. I played about 2000 hands over the weekend and ran really well. Won over 9 Buy-Ins.

Stats over the weekend were closer to 30% VPIP and 18% PFR. It makes it sooo much easier to actually get payed off when people see you splashing around much more often. That was the downfall of my former nit style.

The video that really helped was one of Pokey's from 2+2.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Z6CII9BG

[WayAbvPar]

VPIP and aggression definitely need to go up in 6-max.

Lost a huge pot over the weekend to a questionable play by my opponent (surprise). I made a good read and got severely punished for it on the river. I will try to find the hand history and post it...ugly. Poker is cruel.

[WayAbvPar]

Found it.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($216.65)
SB ($46)
BB ($40)
Hero ($195.70)
UTG+1 ($215.10)
MP1 ($212.60)
MP2 ($320.85)
CO ($80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J.  CO posts a blind of $2.   
Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, MP2 calls $6, 3 folds, BB calls $4.

Flop: ($21) 2, 3, 9 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $14, MP2 raises to $36, BB folds, Hero calls $22.

Turn: ($93) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $60, Hero raises to $153.7, MP2 calls $93.70.

River: ($400.40) K (2 players)

Final Pot: $400.40

Results in white below: 
Hero has Js Jh (two pair, jacks and threes). 
MP2 has Ad Kd (two pair, kings and threes). 
Outcome: MP2 wins $400.40. 

[UD_Delt]

His play doesn't seem that out of line to me. If he thinks you have a fairly tight range in raising from UTG:

Board: 2d 3h 9d 3c
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    35.669%     33.08%    02.59%               786           61.50   { AdKd }
Hand 1:    64.331%     61.74%    02.59%              1467           61.50   { 66+, AQs+, KQs }



He's actually a favorite on the flop vs. what he thinks your range might be:
   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    55.615%     53.78%    01.83%             28752          980.00   { AdKd }
Hand 1:    44.385%     42.55%    01.83%             22748          980.00   { 66+, AQs+, KQs }


By the time you raise all-in the pot is $153 and he has to call off another $93.70. He's getting the necessary odds there isn't he?

[LK]

Wow, just when I thought I knew something about poker.

I need a mentor. u_u;

[Margalis]

On the flop he has two overcards, a flush draw and an outside shot at a straight, and figured that you probably didn't hit 2 pair or a set.

I probably would have played it pretty much the same way he did. The tricky thing about flush draws is that when people call the first card they do so thinking they have two chances to hit the flush, but then if they miss the first card they often fold now that their odds have decreased. But if you play that way then in reality you didn't have the odds you thought to begin with.

If you are going to chase a flush you really have to commit to seeing both cards come down.

Plus with two overcards he has a decent chance to be bailed out even if he misses. I probably would have played the same way except I would have checked the turn.

[Abagadro]

By the time you raise all-in the pot is $153 and he has to call off another $93.70. He's getting the necessary odds there isn't he?

The pot is actually over 300 bucks when he is forced to make the decision, so he is getting 3+ to 1 on the call.

[Margalis]

At that point he has 9 live cards that give him a flush and 6 more that pair with an ace or a king. That's a total of 15 cards out of 46 remaining. Which is 1/3.

Of course that assumes that a single pair of aces or kings wins, and that a flush card doesn't give you a full house. (If he has you on a pocket pair then one of the cards that gives him a flush also gives you a boat.) But then again you could be on something like AQ yourself.

In terms of pot odds it's pretty much even it seems. But again I'd argue that if you fold to a bet on the turn when you miss a flush draw you should have thought twice about playing the flop at all.

[Abagadro]

Seems like the only real chance to make him make a bad call is to push on the turn rather than check raise.


EDIT: And I disagree with the "if you call the flop, you need to call the turn" mentality on a flush draw. This is generally true is limit, but in no limit the flop bet could be offering you 5-1 odds on hitting the turn and 1-4 odds of hitting the river. It all depends upon pot size and bet size.

[Margalis]

Yes it does depend, but my point was that many times people call the flop because they have a 40% chance of hitting a flush on one of the next two cards, then predictably bail out if they miss the first card. In that case the original reason to call was wrong, although they thought they had a 40% chance in reality they had a 22% chance.

If you are going to consistently fold if you miss the turn you have to assume from the start that your odds of hitting the flush are only 22%.

[trias_e]

I just spewed in the worst possible way tonight.  Playing deep stacked 1/2 with 550 on the table, I have position on a very solid regular.  I don't want to get into the specifics, because it's just too embarassing.  But I made the worst semi-bluff shove on the turn in the history of poker.  Literally made no sense.  I timed down on it for 45 seconds and somehow convinced myself I have enough fold equity (I had close to 0) and of course got my money in drawing dead.  What the hell is wrong with me?  I then proceeded to get knocked out of both the tournaments I was in, one of which getting sucked out on AK vs AJ with a very solid stack.

I need a stiff drink.  Which I am now drinking. 

[WayAbvPar]

I managed to lose with a flopped set of Aces and a turned two pair (AK) within about 5 minutes last weekend. AAA filled up when the board paired queens, and of course villain had QQ. WTF.

The AK hand I flopped an A, got the rest of the money in, and hit a K on the turn. Unfortunately villain had QQ and flopped a set.

I am running so fucking cold...god it is frustrating. The 2nd hand is actually an anomaly- I get my money in ahead easily 70% of the time and have just been getting coolered to death.

[Khaldun]

I've just been doing the .10 buy-in 40-table Sit-and-Gos at PokerStars and having a reasonably good time doing it because I can experiment and learn things without feeling like there's a lot at risk. I did do a cheap ring game the other night and came out considerably ahead, but I still find it hard not to tilt like crazy when (as in one hand) I get beat like so:

Me: A9, suited clubs, on the button.
Him: AK, unsuited, first to bet.

He raises 3X BB before flop, folds around to me. I call.

Flop: A 9 9 rainbow.

Him: Bets half pot.
Me: Raise 2X his bet. Feeling fairly sure I'm up against AK, AQ or AJ.
Him: All-in.
Me: Call.

Turn and river? KK.

When you're on an extended streak where you're doing the right thing more or less and you still get continuously beat, that's pretty frustrating, but it's going to happen, I guess. I'd almost rather feel afterwards that I should have done something else, so I'd feel in control. I think the big thing for me is that I'm just realizing there's an upper ceiling for me in terms of how good I can get at the game, how confidently I can settle on a style of play and a consistent assessment of pot odds and implied pot odds.

[stu]

Having a short memory helps immensely. Everyone gets bad beats.