f13.net

Blizzard staff to get training to be more sensitive to players' sexuality. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4700754.stm)

Apparently we all need to be more open to such groups as "The Spreading Taint".

Hey, I just had an idea for a new set of servers  :-)

Damn.  I posted this into Useless news.  It was more that than WoW, I thought.

Owned...

I'm going to start a guild that doesn't discuss nor cares about the members' sexual preferences.  Oh, nevermind, I'm already in one.

Kudos to WoW for reversing a bad policy.

Well, if they can make a gay-only guild, I suppose anyone can start a no-gays guild right?

It wasn't gay-only. It was a GLBT-friendly guild.  Theoretically all guilds should be this because not being so is against the ToS.

But is it against the ToS to start a guild that is friendly to homophobes?  I can't imagine why not... :roll:

Alkiera

Well if we wanted to test the tolerance of intolerance, we could make a sculpture of Mohammed in ATiTD. 

The design of WoW is inherently gay friendly.  You guys thought Night Elves were for straight people?

Anyone who has done the new Valentine's day quests will know that regardless of your gender, you can spray perfume or cologne on you and give love notes to members of either gender. I play a male Tauren and gave love notes to the cows and the female orcs, but in UC, there are no female guards. I tried giving notes to the abominations with cologne on. Heartbroken after 3 mobs, then after 2 mobs. Switched to perfume, and didn't get heartbroken again. Gay undead patchwork monsters ftl.   :-(

Hey good on her.

I know of both a horde and alliance-side gay-friendly guildon my server, and it's no skin off my nose if they want a guildchat free of "OMG fucken fagsz lol" and "man that's gay" and a place where they can discuss Queer as Folk and Bareback Mountain in peace.

Hey, she's pretty hot.

Not OMG HAWT, but certainly a couple notches over most WoW players.

Anyhow, I liked this bit... I wonder if it was positioned that way intentionally... italics mine, bold not

That was my first thought as well.

My second and third thoughts were that she has a rather prominent jaw and traps like a football player.

That's probably my imagination running away with me, though.

Normally I'd be in the 'Who gives a toss who you rub uglies with IRL' camp, but considering how many 'xxxx is gay' comments you see in your average game of WoW, I can understand em wanting their own guilds.

I'm just wondering about the combination of the timing of this, and the fact that the unofficial gay server, Proudmoore, is also the unofficial Aussie server.  Its also 1-2 weeks until gay Mardi Gras in Sydney.  Its a conspiracy I tell yas!  A big gay blizzard conspiracy!

Molten Core is pretty much a 4 hour long gay joke in vent. 

Eating Pudding.

Once again for people playing MMOG games.

I play these games to get away from the real life political bullshit that you are trying to integrate into my gaming experience. I don't care if your dwarf warrior likes assplay. I want to play the game and not think of you as a deviant. Thanks.

Please stop talking about yourself.

So much wrong with that.

Eh, as long as it's not a gay only guild and is instead just a gay-friendly guild where people can join without the gay jokes or people freaking out on them then it doesn't really matter. As for Blizz I'm hoping it was originally done because they confused it with a gay only guild, which is wrong, and overturned the ruling when they realised it wasn't.

Also, she is not hot. This reminds me of the time Triforcer said that Ann Coulter is "quite hot". I lol'd then, I lol now.

No, they originally banned the guild because they said it would attract too much hate and cause harassment problems.  So really, their stance was, "We don't want to deal with the CS nightmare."

Though this chick is on a different server, as is her guild. But yeah, she's pretty good looking. I like the cowgirl hat. I didn't know PM was the unofficial gay server though, and only found out that SC and TST are gay-friendly guilds recently, when I read a post on the Blizz boards. Which is not exactly in-your-face sexuality since I've been on PM since it opened at launch.




1) I hope that you also apply this line of thought to Christian guilds.
2) If teh gayz lolz are all in their own guild, then you don't ever have to read about their dwaves that like assplay.
3) unless you join a guild of, or end up in a PUG with any of the l33t kiddy morons who happen to be in catass uberguilds who talk childish puerile shit out of their asses the whole time.
4) also, better turn off general chat in the cities, and newbie zones, and intermediate zones, and barrens, and STV...
5) actually, better keep it off at all times.



It just depends on how they present themselves in their server community. As I said before, I had no idea about the two on PM until recently. Not exactly in my face...

Oooh don't bite, Paelos is doing the exact thing he is complaining of, lets just enjoy the irony and move on.

Hey, don't blame me, I resisted.  There was a whole convoluted joke about gays turning the other cheek in there as well.

I RESISTED.

Yup.  Still an idiot.

Translation: 'Please, no sharing'


I don't even think he's violating the 'No sharing' rule there, much less 'doing the exact thing he is complaining of'.  Please, make sense?  His request is the same one we made of SirBruce.  Why is that suddenly too much to ask?

Alkiera

I would say that all MMOG's should just have these channels turned off by default, but then the drooling mongoloids would just find some other channel to ejaculate their mouth-breathing, knuckledragging douchery into. Better to keep them confined to the low end of the gene pool where I can see them and avoid them.

Also, as I said in the other thread, gaymer is perhaps one of the most irritatingly assinine labels since "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy." Have some fucking respect, gay people. Just because you ARE gay, doesn't mean you have to name yourself something gayer than night elves.

They didn't actually ban the guild, rather the CS guy told her she would be banned if she continued to advertise it in chat. Given my experience with the CS guys so far I think it really was poor  training rather than company policy.

Yeah, uh...welcome to the "T" in "GBLT"

Me No Understand.

Hah ha! Dangly parts.

(http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/34618770/4271858)

Sexual orientation is not inherently political.  What you're railing against is any intersection of games and real life.  The same sort of nexus that occurs when a player tells his guildmates that he and his wife just had a child is all these people are trying to do.  Sadly trying to do so amongst the general population would immediately result in a series of flames and jokes, hence the need for the guild. 

I would hope that a gay guild would be the same as a "straight" guild where people don't go on and on about their sexual exploits/persuasions. Some guy saying "I met hit hot guy last night for dinner" wouldn't bother me, but telling me about any sex they may or may not have had would. Same as if the guy was talking about a girl. You see there's a line... Bruce crossed in frequently.

Personally I'd like it if Blizzard treated guilds as private clubs.  You can invite whomever you like whyever you like.

Isn't that what they do?

I guess it's the advertising that's the problem for some.  For which there is a simple solution.  Turn off general chat.

Recently on my server there was a "gay activist" guild being advertised, which goes a bit beyond "gay tolerant" or "gay friendly."  So the Gay Activist (most likely a college student who recently outed himself and has Issues) would advertise in IF and then of course, the expected reaction.  Which is why I usually turn off general chat when I'm in IF.

I don't think many people want to join a gay-only guild, although many don't mind gay-friendly or -tolerant.  I have no idea what my guild's position is; never occurred to me to ask and I haven't noticed. 

If people want to form a white-only or black-only or Christian-only or straight-only or men-only, I don't give a fig.  Keep the bigots together, if bigots they are.  Merely advertising a whatever-only is not offensive to me, and I don't know why it would be to other people.  If they are offended by such things, perhaps they should stay at home with the windowshades drawn and the doors locked.  Being exposed to the public must surely be a trauma.

There is already a no-gnome guild on my server which I find very amusing.  The response to people roleplaying bigotry is quite entertaining, particularly since it's not an RP server.

Nice.

I don't think you people understand. It's just gays in this example. I don't want to know ANYTHING about the political, religious, sexual orientation, or any other hot button topics about people I play with. It's the same reason I don't read the politics forum here, I just know it's something I don't want to deal with so I actively avoid it. I'd like people in MMOGs to play the game, not group up on party lines and try to remind everyone they have an agenda in a fucking game.

Understandable, but you have to realize that these people are playing in an environment that is almost always inherently hostile to them.  It's perfectly reasonable for them to try and find people they can count on to not be offensive.

Um, I try to find that in MMOGs constantly and it has nothing to do with my sexual orientation.  My solution so far has not been to yell about it in general chat.  Typically, that will get me the exact opposite of my aim.  Once in a great while I go one night playing WoW without being offended or annoyed.  I celebrate by logging off and going to bed.  To do otherwise is inviting doom.

I have never in my entire life EVER been in ANY group of people that could avoid, given enough time together, discussing aspects of their personal lives.  When you are spending 4+ hours PER DAY with a group of people, and you don't eventually start talking about something outside of the game, there is actually something mentally wrong with you.  You are broken as a human being.

Asking one person to hide an aspect of their personal life from you because you don't want to hear about it is absurd.  I'm sure that you do not get offended when a married man mentions his wife, or his child.. do you?  Why should a gay man be disallowed from mentioning his loved one?  And if he does want to talk about his loved one with someone much more tolerant than you, why should he not be allowed to seek out people of similar interests as an escape from your bigotry?

It's all about the cock.

If married couples with children were disallowed from forming guilds with other married couples with children, the Christians would be here spewing fire and brimstone about how it's an attack on the family and a disgrace to America.  The very end would be nigh.  But when the GLBT community wants to form a guild, Paelos doesn't want to hear about their "politics"..

I actually think he just doesn't want to hear about who they are fucking. Gay is not a political stance, at least not until politicians made it as such.

Much like here, I don't want to hear about who anybody is fucking. But I can see Paelos's point: it's a game, who you put your hooha in outside of the game should have no bearing.

But it does, which is why this whole silliness started. Blizzard GM's were morons for tagging this person and not dickslapping every person they ever see in general chat saying, "That was SO gay." A healthy dose of ignoring would have made this whole thing go away.

Cevik, the point is that it is absolutely non-essential to the game to talk about your sex preferences or your politics. I can ask you about your day without even touching the surface of your stance on either. It's an internet game, NOBODY IS EVER GOING TO KNOW IF YOU DON'T PUT IT OUT THERE! I don't talk about Christianity or religion in my gaming time. I never tell people about my faith or try to preach to anyone. If people want to talk about their partners, how are we going to know what sex they are? How do we know what sex you are?

My point is that it's a game, and the world is already polarized enough over this kind of crap without having to drag it into playtime for no reason.

Because we are on vent, and it's pretty fucking easy to tell.


Because we are on vent, and it's pretty fucking easy to tell.

And as much as you don't want to talk about life in game, the sad fucking reality is, everyone does it.  It's a social game.  You are hanging out with social people.  Talking about social things, almost always in a VoIP application.

The reality is, there is no way that I can spend 99% of my non-game time with another human being (2 in fact) and then spend as much time IN GAME that I do, without mentioning that human being.  In addition, no one has EVER asked me, nor have I ever heard anyone else ever asked another straight (married or just boyfriend/girlfriend) couple to not mention their significant other.  I've never been in a guild where talking about your significant other, or child, is an issue, ever.. and I've been in a fucking lot of guilds.

In fact, I was in a guild with Haemish, where he talked about girlfriend.  And I was in a guild with Righ, where he eventually brought Signe along to play with us as well.  And my wife joined that same guild.  She is now in the same guild as me on WoW.  And no one.. not one single person has EVER complained about all us married people infecting the guild with our "politics" or our "sexual preferences" or our "deviant behavoir".

It would be ABSURD if I had to pretend that I wasn't married to my wife, because it might offend someone about my "sexual preference" in the guild.  If it offends someone, remove them from the guild, they are the fucking asshole with the problem.  It would be absurd if Haemish had to dance around his fiance/girlfriend/whatever she is because someone might be offended to know about his sexual preferences.  AND IT IS ABSURD TO ASK GAY PEOPLE TO PRETEND THEY AREN'T GAY SO THAT YOU ARE HAPPY ABOUT YOURSELF AND NOT BE FACED WITH YOUR SEXUAL INADEQUACIES.

And I want to read this message board without thinking of you as a fucking bigot.  But you go and ruin that every chance you get.  Fucking bigot.

You've met my wife and never made a big deal of it before.  We've both met Righ's wife and Signe's husband, and we don't complain to them to stop talking about the fact that they are married.  I've met your girlfriend and I don't complain that you constantly tell me who you are fucking.  We both knew married people in Shadowbane.. fuck our guild leader and his wife played, and we never asked them to keep their relationship under wraps so that we didn't have to have their sexual preferences flaunted in our faces.

In fact.. it seems to only be a problem that applies to gay people.. interesting..

While Paelos is most certainly being an idiot, I do see the point he is trying to make.

I had a very similar reaction on B.net when tons of morons would band together and make AzN ONLY guilds, it really pissed me off.  Even more so I was pissed off in SC by AZN only games.  It got so annoying that me and two RL friends made a clan in SC with the tag [wht] then went around pretending we were nazi's.  But I was a much younger much stupider person then, not that it still doesn't bother me but I wouldn't bother to react the same way anymore.

Instead I just mentally categorize anyone with boi, flip, azn, thai, etc etc in their character handle as a fucking moron and move on.  But this is no way runs counter to Cevik's point that using terms like "fag" and "gay" as derogatory remarks is commonplace on the internet and therefore people would want to make guilds where that was an understood no-no.

It wouldn't surprise me if Paelos would be pissing blood if somebody in his guild started ripping into another member for saying a bugged spawn was gay and causing untold amounts of internet drama.  RP guilds are formed for just this reason, they want certain language to be used in guild chat and are looking for certain type of social interaction.

But if instead of "gay" being an insult, what if "Christian" was an insult?  What if every day you could expect to hear people broadcasting things like, "Thanks to the fucking Christmuncher who trained that spawn on me, fucking christian"?

It's laughable now, because it sounds so ridiculous.  But if you were gay, that's what you're getting- people using aspects of your personality as an insult on others.  If you were in the same situation, you'd probably want to be in a guild where you could rely on not having to hear that shit, too.

Doesn't matter if you put it out there or not- people start on it without any provocation (GAY ASS ROGUES). It's reasonable of them to seek out people on whom they can rely to not do that.

The rest of the world is hostile to you, so you make a little place for like minded people, so you can stay out of the way of bigots like Paelos and avoid hostility.  Then bigots like Paelos come along and scream that they don't want to have to think about you deviants so you just need to not even acknoweldge your own existence because you're making him confront his fears about his own sexuality.

Paelos doesn't have a point at all.

I repeat, I have never seen an issue in any guild anywhere where a married couple was told to mask their identities because it may offend someone in the guild.  If such a thing ever happened, the same bigots that are talking about how horrible it is that gay people are tryinig to avoid them, would be up in arms to the utmost extreme that the very foundations of marriage are under attack.  The very same people in this thread that are telling me they don't want to have to think about "who is fucking who", have, without a moments thought, both told me about their significant others AND introduced me to them without even the slightest concern that I may be "offended".  The only difference here is that the person's significant other is of the same sex.  Suddenly then it becomes an issue of "politics" and "deviance" and must be hidden.

So I guess this means none of you would have any problems with advertising other "friendly" guilds in ingame chat either, eh?

Fat friendly?
Abortion friendly?
Bush friendly?
White friendly?
Jesus friendly?
Black friendly?
Disabled friendly?
Dildo friendly?
Castrated friendly?
Ugly friendly?
Non-American friendly?
Korean friendly?
Blond friendly?
Dirty friendly?
Nerd friendly?
French friendly?
Buddha friendly?
Communist friendly?
Arab friendly?
ClintonIn08 Friendly?
Nuke friendly?
BSDM friendly?
Animal friendly?
Lawyer friendly?
Anorexic friendly?
Smoker friendly?
Veteran friendly?
Anorexic French Smoker Fat Jesus Dildo friendly?


Honestly, people who are pro this, where is the line? For me, it's pretty much if you're on an RP server none of it would be allowed otherwise anything goes. However, then you have, should people even be allowed to advertise for guilds in general chat at all? Or should that be restricted to a guild recruitment channel? If you want to join a guild you specifically go to that channel and everyone else doesn't have to get spammed. And that is the solution.

Not a problem at all.  It's one of the things that makes freedom great.  We are ALL free to exercise it, not just the christians.

Part of why this got so much publicity is that GLBT guilds have thrived in WOW and everyone pretty much thought it was a non-issue. I'm in Spectrum on Garona and we got so large that we had to start dropping alts and inactives because we were hitting the what is it 500 member limit on the Alliance side and we had a few hundred on the Horde side. And nobody seemed to care either way, including the huge Christian guild on the server. When Sara got warned, it really shocked everyone because we thought Blizzard "got it." Well apparently they do. (A marked contrast to SOE btw.)


Nope, no problem.

Don't forget military friendly. Very important right now because some people have gotten booted by twit raiding guilds for inactivity. The inactivity being due to Iraqi or Afghani deployment.

If that were true then everyone would be free to hack, crack, and exploit the client too. Blizzard's house, Blizzard's rules. You're free to try to make them change the rules though.

Fucking retard.

Oh, so you're not down with a Hacker friendly guild then? What about a Gold Farmer friendly guild?

Fucking retard.

I'll take that as a no. I think found the line.

Edit: Your line, anyway.

You've found the line.. the line is, your IQ is so much lower than that of a chimpanze, that there is clearly no reason for this discussion to continue with you in it.

You've taken discussing the social aspects of a persons life.. the meta game.. and said "HARAHAHAHARFHARHAH YOU SAID PEOPLEZ CAN SPLOIT, GOTCHA"

No.. you are a fucking dumbass retard of the utmost degree.  You are so fucking stupid that you are incapable of considering yourself a member of the human fucking race.  If you breed, humanity is doomed.

You are a fucking retard.

EDIT:  Look, you fucking moron, I'll spell it out to you because you are so goddamned stupid that you actually thought you had a fucking point (which, in itself is the saddest thing I've seen all fucking goddamned day).

I have no problem with GLBT guilds.  I do have a problem with GLBT people raping straight people.

I have no problem with Christian guilds.  I do have a problem with christians forcing non-Christians to worship god.

I have no problem with a "Castrated friendly guild".  I do have a problem with forced castrations.

I how no problem with a Lawyer friendly guild.  I do have a problem with you fucking "conservative" retards attempting to change the legal system so your friends, the mega-corporations no longer face liabilities.

I have no problem with people discussing the things they are interested in, I have a problem with people forcing those interests on others.

A "hacker friendly guild" is not anything at all like a "GLBT friendly guild".  One is trying to find like minded people for discussion, the other is trying to affect other's gameplay experience.

If the GLBT were going around /humping everyone that was straight, they should be banned.  If an exploiter is exploiting, they should be banned.

Wait, wait.

Stonewall Champions?

Is this gay-friendly guild argument originating from MY FUCKING SERVER?

I HATE MY FUCKING SERVER. GOD.

Blizzard seems to think that GLBT-friendly guilds are okay after reviewing the issue.  Blizzard's rules and all.

Fine by me. Gold farmers have rights too.



Whereas you have devolved into personal attacks which are always fun but in the end pointless.

Still fucking the wife, thanks for asking.  That's mine, not yours.  Or anyone else's.  Mine.

Thanks for taking an interest !

Because you are too stupid to breath.  Read my edit, you fucking moron.

EDIT: The fact that you actually think you have a point makes me so sad that I have again lost all faith in humanity.  How the fuck you escaped elementary school is fucking mind boggling.  Go back, they forgot to teach you the very basics of reasoning.

pics plzkthx

I also didn't advertise in the middle of Ironforge that I had a wife, nor that I was heterosexual and having heterosexual sex. It only came up when we got to be guildmates, and thus removed the barrier of being complete strangers.

Frankly, I have no problem with a 'gay-friendly' guild. More power to them. BUT... and here's where I can certainly see Blizzard's GM being concerned, there's no need to advertise it in a public chat channel UNLESS it's being used as some kind of bargaining chip to gain recruits. In other words, there's no need to mention it unless that's your guild's hook. Sure, when someone gives you a tell about the guild, you can mention that as the first thing that comes out of your mouth: "We are a gay, lesbian, bi and transgender friendly guild. Do you have a problem with that?"

But jumping out there on public chat channels is exactly the same as running pink triangle gay pride parades down main street with flaming queers in assless pants and chaps. It's flaunting shit in my face that quite frankly, I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT AND REALLY DON'T WANT TO SEE IN PUBLIC. I don't want to see that kind of shit in public chat channels anymore than I want to see "WE ARE DA PWNZORS!" or any other form of retarded mongoloid speech sure to cause a chat riot in the channel. I can absolutely see why Paelos would get annoyed by it. I'm sure he'd get annoyed by pink triangle dress up parades down his block too.

Now, if I was in a guild that told me "You can't mention your wife" I'd probably leave. Because as a guild, we're supposed to be above the level of pure stranger that public chat channels are. But I'd also want someone else to leave if they started spouting off with specifics about their sex life, hetero or not. It ain't part of the game, and I really don't want to be in a guild with SirBruce the Furry Cocksucker, who never knows when to shut up about the amazing Ratman sex he had last night with a stuffed animal.

There are better ways to handle recruitment than this woman's guild chose, and there are better ways to handle the situation than Blizzard did.

And?  What if you had joined the guild THEN found out is was GLBT friendly?  Fuck, at least they are letting you know what you are getting in to.  I've never seen a guild advertised WITHOUT it telling you something about the guild.  And this is a pretty goddamned fundamental something.

Hypocrisy is a bitch, eh?

I just said that it should be one of the first things they tell people IN PRIVATE when someone registers an interest. I just don't want to hear about it on public fucking channels, just like I don't want to hear about how people will pwnzor in PVP, or people who are Pittsburgh Steeler fans or other stupid retarded shit that has not one goddamn bit to do with the game.

But this is why I turn general channels off. Because most of the people who take enough time to talk in them on a regular basis should be sterilized, have corks put on their forks, and never allowed to drive.

See, it's the word 'deviant'.  It shouldn't have been used.  The whole post needed more thought.  It just came off as wrong and look what it started.

You blew it up.  You fools, you blew it up.  Damn you all to hell.

And?  How was I hypocritic?  How?  Explain it?  In what way was I a hypocrite?

When you die, and they put you in line at the pearly gates, ask for a redo.  You failed at life.

I simply cannot believe that you are actually so stupid as to think you have a point.  It's fucking disturbing.

We can get back on point, or we can get to the den.

Good internet either way.

Look, because I refuse to believe that anyone is this fucking dumb (it's the liberal in me), I'm just going to pray you are being purposely obtuse to show Paelos how stupid his side is.  I will explain it one last time, just in case..

I have no problem with things that do not affect gameplay experiences.  Advertising a GLBT guild does not, in any way, affect your gameplay experience.  Gay cyber sex in a public chat channel does.  One is a bannable offense, one is not.

A GLBT does not, in any way, affect your gameplay experience.

Exploits and hacks do.

One is a bannable offense, the other is not.

There is no slippery slope, I know you tried really really hard to be clever, but you were not.  The "line" as you put it is clear, it's distinct, and it's easy to draw.  On one side is fucking assholes like you and Paelos being way too fucking sensitive about your gayness, on the other is using direct actions to affect other's gameplay experience.  It's really really simple, you are not nearly as smart as you think you are.

This is part of what made this an issue. The difference is easy to draw and Blizzard had done a good job up until this incident.

I disagree. The solution is a guild recruitment channel and no guild recruitment in general chat because it is spam.

And if someone wants to advertise a hacker, cheater, or gold farmer guild in the guild recruitment channel I'm fine with that too.

For the love of Christ.

The Den please.

Yes.

Denning it is kind of the issue really. Say you're GLBT friendly. Have homophobes scream bloody murder. Have the GM ban the person for even bringing it up. The result is that anti-gay people get a veto on gay people's existance.

Which is exactly what happened no?

The GM didn't have time to repremand/warn every person that was having a Paelos-fit about the guild advertisement so they told the guild advertiser to get back in the closet.  Much akin to Haemish's point.

The fact is, people advertise what raids they are doing, if they are newb friendly, pvp orientated or what timezone they operate in when they are advertising for new members.  The idea that information that you are using to whittle out people who will not fit in with the type of guild you are making should be kept secret until a person contacts you is fucking ridiculous.

<me>:  Guild looking for new members!  We have a cool name and a cool tabbard!  PST if you want to know anything at all about the guild!

Thats just retarded, and deep down we all know that.  General chat is all worthless spammage anyways, we all know that too.  If there is indeed a guild recruitment channel then yes they should keep that shit out of general.  But saying that they shouldn't attempt to look for people who would be interested in a LGBT friendly guild atmosphere in their advertising is just FUCKING STUPID YOU KNOW IT IS STUPID SO STOP PRETENDING THIS IS COMPLICATED.

I'm glad I can stir you into such a frenzy over apparently nothing.

So I'm a bigot Cevik? Ok, I'm used to having people fire a lot of names at me, but it seems everytime you post you further sink your point with nothing but shit-slinging.

Let's get back to basics. Ironwood is right, I shouldn't have said "deviant" and I didn't mean it applied to gays. I don't think of them as deviants, and while I don't agree with their lifestyle, this is America, and in my opinion they have a right to it and to talk and/or celebrate it in public. Also, because this is America, people that disagree can actually disagree without being called retarded, rednecked, bigots. That's counter-intuative to the argument if that starts.

I wrote the original post while wildly drunk, mostly because I'm sick of RL politics (which gay rights are, regardless if you don't want it to be) coming into something that I consider to be a relaxing and anonymous hobby. Let them have a gay guild if they want it, it's not going to bother me. I'd rather not have it since online games would seem to me to be the one place where you can shed your real identity and taking up whatever mantle you want, but apparently that's not possible for some people. I have no idea why that is, but I'm not in the job of controlling how they have fun as long as it doesn't enfringe on someone else's fun.

So, if my first point offended you, I apologize. My intent was to point out that I found the fact that people would go out of their way to make this an issue was ridiculous and has nothing to do with gays. There were better ways to put it.

However, Cevik, you can kiss my ass. You're not even trying to see the real point in the issue and instead are just jumping up people's asses. Thanks for being a big enough jerk to try and completely ignore the points and turn it into a namecalling contest. You have zero class.

Ideally this would be the case.  I play on RP servers to help foster that alternate identity.

The problem is that we cannot control others.  There are a ton of players that have no desire to shed their identity.  "It is just a game."  They bring real life into it and so what results is a guild forming with the intent of avoiding those people.  Role players do this all the time.  Even on an RP server I hear at least once a week someone asking what RP is.

I cannot blame a guild forming around the GLBT tag to do likewise.  For all we know there is less gay-oriented talk in their guild channel than can be found in general chat at any given time, especially considering that was kind of the point behind OZ's formation.

Ask and ye shall receive:

Now, was that so hard? Wonders of modern technology.

Frankly, I think the term "gaymer" is cute.

If you don't want the real world in your game the best thing you can do is play on a RP server. It won't stop it completely, but it will reduce it a great deal.

You're being an idiot. And yes, the goldfarmers do have their own guilds. I'm sure the people who want to hax0r the client also congregate with their mates.



No, Fab (nice gay-friendly name you got there, BTW) ;). This argument if you read the original article is from some chick on some other server I can't even remember the name of. Reading comprehension and retention FTW.

Stonewall champions came up as an example of a gey-friendly guild on my server that isn't in your face about their sexuality and shit, since obviously you didn't know they were gay-friendly either.

However, Proudmoore is still an unstable piece of shit. Paelos plays there too.

So is it okay if other people have things that you'd rather not have? Cos', you know, they might like them? Even though they don't fit with your own personal likes and dislikes? I don't want to hear about your alchoholism-as-excuse. It's not as interesteing as where Ironwood puts his Ironwood. As for shedding your RL identity, how many fucking l33t kiddy fucktards do you run into? They're more offensive to me than people wearing their gay guildtag.

Also, get the fuck off my Aussie shithole server. You belong on an RP server. Mi'lord.

That's sort of definitive of why GLBT people want GLBT friendly guilds. So it's not an issue that interferes with our gaming.

Wait, you're on there too? I bet I've personally wiped a scholo/strat candy run with you. Small world.

We would've transferred, but we couldn't contact all of our guild members. Doesn't help that our leader and another one of our guildies is off in Iraq either.

Funny. In this morning patch, they added a guild recruitment chat channel. Must be thinking along the same lines.

Also, I have to agree with Civik. I have no problem with a GLBT guild. Also, I think its fine to advertise the fact. Do you expect homosexual people just to constantly join guild after guild in hopes of getting the one they want? What about raiders? Should they not beable to advertise that they are a raiding guild? Just gota join and find out?

I crush the hypocritics like an overhand right from Riddick.

Yeah, for me there's little point transferring, since PM has all of us Aussies on it and that won't be changing until Blizz actually host a few servers somewhere in this part of the world. You're not guilded with paelos are you?  :-o

Dead horse, you beat. The hypocrite lounge is over that way.

Nope. I'm in a small but now growing (we're getting some of our guild leader's old friends from a broken up raiding guild that was dissolved by the leader due to drama) extremely-casual guild. Fell Omen. The founder and his fiancee and most of the original members are formerly of EQ.

Oh yeah, if you see someone with our tag named Gavinter, ignore him. It's one of our guildy's kids. I dunno why he lets him play, since he has said himself on more than one occasion that his kid is "an idiot sometimes".

Other than that, I rather like my guild. The server...not so much. The fucked time schedules most of the players are on can get irritating, but I can't really bitch TOO much about it since our main priest lives in France, and we work our 5-mans around him a lot. The server's stability, lag, and bugginess is about the worst I've seen across all my various alts on different servers (ignoring some of the release-day servers, which can be fucked beyond belief). Our Alliance to Horde ratio is really bad too (4:1 at best I think), but again, I'm alliance so I can't really bitch THAT much.

edit: on a more amusing note, I remember someone mentioning "zone break-ins" may be in WoW's future due to Tigole. I had no clue what the hell they were so I asked our guild leader's fiancee, and she immediately said, "OH FUCKING NO, THAT FUCKING SUCKED. CHRIST," and then proceeded to rant and rave about the planes of Hate and Fear for 20 minutes.

I know I'll once again get shouted at about this, but that's a horrible point. Raiding is an interest inside the game. GLBT/Christian/Parent is a distinction outside the game. Being either of the latter has little to do with what you do in game other than perhaps your time commitments and apparently conversation points. There's a large difference. In addition, it really doesn't matter what I say in this thread at this point, since most of you are looking for a reason to be pissed about something. So have at it, I'll just move along to greener grasses and let this one go.

Also, Azazel makes me laugh. See you in the shithole good buddy.  :-D

The fact that you're an idiot is something I waas unaware of before this thread. If it's a dead horse I'm beating by saying such, (and you're the one telling me) well I think that says a bit about you that you might want to look into sometime..

Thanks for trolling.

Gheymar.

There's a new name for a new character.

You think you have a point here.  You do not. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_%28logic%29)

You have no idea what I think. (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,70179-0.html?tw=wn_index_2)

What all of you who are continuing to post in this thread for no reason need to understand is that the entire purpose of this thread is now moot. Blizzard implimented a guild recruitment channel. Theoretically, you can now post whatever you want about your guild for recruitment purposes there. People who don't care about potentially "offensive" guild spam no longer have to see it if they do not want to. And people who want to spam for guild recruitment can now do so too without bothering anyone. Theoretically, Blizzard would also have to impliment a policy of no guild recruitment in general chat for it to be a complete solution. I don't know if they have done that.

Anything else is irrelevant.

You being an idiot is a dead horse? Thanks for letting me know, I wasn't aware.

Not sure why you're telling me about the hypocrite lounge, but as long as the couches are comfy, I don't give a toss.

You know, I think there's a bright future for the word "gaymer" as a slur. Unfortunately that bright future will be completely burnt out by the hordes of under-18 WoW night elf gaymers (sounds better than mangina at least). I'm also surprised it took this long for that word to pop into existance. It's gotta be somewhere years back on usenet or something. I'm telling you, 10 years from now, it'll be part of internet vernacular. Someone trace the history of the fucker before somebody claims they coined it.

And as usual they fucked that up and it's off by default, or it is off for all my existing characters. Maybe it's on by default for newly created characters, but they put an MOTD up telling people how to join it.

Strikes me as a CYA sort of move:  instead of saying "we were wrong about our own TOS", they can now say "well it is only allowed if you do it in the guild recruitment channel. What? No guild recruitment channel?  Fixed."

I did tell people not too bite....

It all comes down to the same thing, people trying to dictate what sort of social environment they want to play in and expect everyone to conform to what they deem acceptable.  It will never reach a satisfying consensus to all people, in my opinion learn a little tolernace or crawl back into the cave.  I am aware though, that that is me dictating what sort of social environment I want to play in.  At both ends of the spectrum, whether aggressively confrontational homosexual or blunt bigot, I really dont want to hear your complaints that the world isnt to your liking.

Apparently it goes back as far as at least 1991 (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.personals/browse_frm/thread/1f52bdbc6879bb5f/bb7d7237a8797b37?lnk=st&q=gaymer&rnum=399)

Guilds are a sacred, legal, and social union ordained by God to be a relationship between hetrosexual individuals. Focus on the Family holds this institution in the highest esteem, and strongly opposes any legal sanction of Guild counterfeits, such as the legalization of homosexual "guilds" or the granting of guild-like benefits to homosexuals, bisexuals, lesbians, transexuals, or any other deviant relationship. History, nature, social science, anthropology, religion, and theology all coalesce in vigorous support of guilds as they have always been understood: a union of heterosexual males and females for the purpose of creating stable raids.

- from Focus on the Family, in an alternate dimension where they had any cognizance of WoW

Maybe this is a agree to disagree point, but I have never been in a guild where RL stuff doesnt bleed through in to the game. What about people advertising Casual-Friendly guilds? If I was homosexual would I want in a GLBT guild? Probably not, but I would be uncomfterble having people in my guild using the term "gay" to describe stuff that sucked.
I was in a small guild starting in the old NWN, and then in UO with a homosexual player, and he did tend to act a bit differently that a straight player (he was a major queen, and would be the first to admit it), but I could defenetly see how players of a like orentation would like to stick together.

We have Old Guys guilds, Christian guilds, l33t guilds, casual friendly guilds, hardcore guilds, and now Gay guilds. So far only one playstyle seems to have got people in an uproar.

No, advertising for guild members in a general chat channel, ANY GENERAL CHAT CHANNEL IS FUCKING STUPID. I should know, because I've had to build guild recruiting structures and procedures from the ground up in a PVE focused game (i.e. EQ and then DAoC). Let me tell you what you get from the general chat channel spam.

You get the lowest form of dirtlicking, inbred, assgrabbing, lewtwhoring, monkeyfucking, munchkin raping, twat waddling, gramatically inept, socially retarded, drooling, rambling, blithering, cockgobbling, cross-eyed, illiterate, immature monogoloids on the face of the fucking earth, and probably the face of other planets as well. For every 1/2 of a good guild person you find, you'll get 3,004 really really shitty ones. You get the people either no one else will take or the people who have already burned their bridges elsewhere. If your guild has to resort to general chat spam to get enough members to make a decent circle jerk, it doesn't matter what your imagined uniqueness is, whether it be GBLT friendly or the uberest PVP raiders or what, you are already fucked.

Which is why ANY guild recruitment should be shunted to its own chat channel, AND any guild recruitment in general chat channels should be a warning offense. Everyone who has ever been in a large MMOG city knows that there is already too much spam there anyway, this is just more useless shit.

And what's worse, is that knowing the Blizzard player base, advertising a GBLT friendly guild in general is only going to cause ASSTONS of problems from the haters. Bigots are loud, whiny fucks. They will cause more problems than its worth it to allow guild recruitment spam in general. I mean, if we really want to start getting stupid, how about allowing an abortion-friendly guild to chat spam? Is that ok, knowing how much fucking bullshit arguing that's going to cause over general chat channels? Or a racism-friendly guild?

My objection has nothing to do with GLBT as much as it has to do with ANY guild recruitment spam, but especially those that are ab-so-fucking-lutely going to cause huge shitstorms of retarded behaviour.

The best recruitment for your guild, BTW, is two-fold: 1) your guildtag on competent, friendly people who like to group with random strangers, and 2) doing live player events where you give away free shit, like arena tournaments or Valentine's Day dances. Everything else? More trouble than its worth.

So your point is that you have no point and were just being sarcastic and not adding anything to the discussion?

Agreed, then.

One /tell to the person recruiting will answer all of those questions, if the person recruiting knows what they are doing. And if they are recruiting, they should know what they are doing. None of it has to go in a general chat channel.

And I'm glad they added a guild recruitment channel. Just seems like a small thing to do.

You summed up your own post quite nicely. It's getting pretty crowded down there under the bridge.

Edit: Start your own thread and state your position if you want to debate freedom, the terms of service, and reverse engineering. You don't just get to snipe from the sidelines.

Removing basic rights (and no, I'm not talking about advertising a guild in a game, I'm talking about the way you people are treating gay people in our country) because you "disagree" with them and think they are "deviants" is not "apparently nothing" to me.. sorry you feel that way, it explains your behavoir quite well..


Yes. (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bigot)


Nice backtracking:  "No no no, I didn't mean THOSE people were deviants.. I meant some other unnamed group of people that had nothing to do with this conversation.. my bad!"  I think you just won the internet..


When you are a bigot, you will be called a bigot.


You can't suddenly start saying that the rights of a class of people are "politics" thus should be banned because you don't want to hear about politics.  50 years ago the rights of African American were "politics".. can we ban African Americans from telling us their race in general?


Coming from you, this is the best compliment I've recieved all week.. thanks!

So does this go in the Den now, or the Politics forum?

Also, Proudmoore just fucking crashed again. I blame Paelos.

You're American or African. Pick one.

The Den is too good for this thread.  Let's put it in the WoW forum.

I considered it, but really, it could fit in perfectly on the official WoW boards as well.

First?

edit: yay first!

Now it would fit right in.

If someone wants to stick their pecker in another mans ass, far be it from me to tell them they can't.  Just don't tell me its normal to WANT to do so, 'kay? (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/deviant)

Classy.

I put it to you that the accepted norm is different for everyone, rendering the actual set in stone definition of the word to be a little iffy...

There's not polite way to really say it.

Besides, if you want to argue semantics of definitions and their application, Cevik could be considered just as much or more of a "bigot" for not accepting Krakrok's point of view. 

At the very least, a hypocrite.

Hmm, I think dredging the argument up again when Mr P has already said that he probably shouldn't have used such an emotionally charged word is not the best idea.

As for Cevik, he's off on one.  As someone who does this, well, pretty much all the time, I recognise the symptoms.  There's no calming it down now.  All you can do is back away slowly.

So stop it.

Just calling it like I see it.  Especially on a post made not 13 hrs ago.

13 Hours is a long time when your thread is heading to Politics.

Yes, and everyone who disagreed with gassing jews were bigots and hypocrits too..

Yes yes, I know, I'm not supposed to compare THIS TIME that you're rounding up a group of people and removing their rights simply because you can with the LAST TIME that you did it, because it makes you feel bad about yourself or something.. Godwin's law.. *shrug*..

You are an idiot. Hey, just calling it like I see it. If you are posting here, you are already a deviant. Enjoy.

Arg.  Gassing Jews.  Why does it always come back to Gassing Jews.

 :heartbreak:

Who is removing rights? You don't have the right to spam up general chat channels with stupid shit advertising gold farming services, or things that are deliberately inflammatory. And anyone who thinks in a player community like Blizzard that the idea of a GBLT guild ISN'T eventually going to cause some inflammation (generally around the vaginal area) is incredibly delusional. If it had been a NeoNazi group spamming up the general chat channel, would anyone have a problem with their being warned/banned/whatever?

Paelos doesn't want to hear it in game. I don't want to hear it in-game. That's why the guild recruitment channel was a good "No duh" thing to add. Was warning this chick kind of stupid? Yes, because it was going to cause a shitstorm of stupid over something that shouldn't have been done. She was well within her rights to spam the general chat channel, because there wasn't any EULA rules against it. But there should have been, for no reason other than folks who don't like gays would probably start some shit in general chat over that kind of guild spam.

For the record:
1) Guild recruitment spam in general chat of any type, for any guild = bad
2) Guild recruitment channel = gud

No one's rights were removed. No one got gassed. Hyperbole is what makes this issue turn into a turnip patch of stupid.

If you are comparing someone's belief that homosexuality is of a deviant behavior that can compare to genocide...
Wow....
Just...
Wow...
LMAO.

Deep end = you.

Godwin's Law be damned....

First except the following parameters:
-There was no guild recruitment channel
-General chat in IF/UC is the commonly accepted, if maligned by some method of searching for new members from the general public

Assume:
A guild advertisement that included such details as:  US-Based, English speaking, Must have TS, hardcore raiding MC on farm status must be attuned to BWL/MC/Ony. -Would not warrent any attention from Blizzard reps.

Assume:
A guild advertisement that included such lines as:  Anti Gold Farmer guild, help us kill azn gold farmers, pvp+++ organized BG runs every weekend. -Would warrent attention from Blizzard.

So which category does a guild advertisement that includes:  "LGBT friendly" fall under?

You only have two choices as I see it.

It falls under the first category, they are referencing RL but only as a tool to whittle down the amount of applicants who fit the playstyle/personality they are looking for.

or

It falls under the second, which means you are saying that being LGBT-friendly is an inflammatory remark, that due to the amount of drama it will cause in general should be kept out of the channel.

Which is obviously how the CSR saw it, not that Blizzard was being anti-gay just trying to prevent a ton of spammage in general about a hot button issue.

The fact is Cevik, while being his usual over-stating self, is right.  You guys are being douchebags of the highest order when you even pretend their is some logic to the second form of thinking.   Either way I'm sick of fucking repeating that, while people continue to obscure the issue (Cevik included) by blowing everything way out of proportion.

***

To put it simply, you wouldn't have any problem with a guild advert that went:
"Looking for mature players 21+, family oriented guild so please no swearing or l33t speak"

There are tons of guilds like that, just as there are tons of guilds that naturally gravitate toward the opposite (younger, l33t min/maxer hardcore crowd).  Nobody minds.

But all of a sudden when a new element (designed to eliminate certain language and behavior from guildchat the same way the above language does) is introduced its a big deal, that reeks of fucking bullshit. 

Where I'm from we call people who get worked up over what other people do/say/wear/fuck tourists.

That's because tryinig to have a discussion with the f13 short bus crowd stopped being fun about 5 years ago.. instead I just like to stir up the retardation from time to time.. hopefully soon we'll digress into another lengthy diatribe on why the people at this site are so much smarter than those at the vault.. I'm not really aiming to get that one started until page 7 though, so stay tuned..

Why are you trolling? Should you not be bleating over in the SWG thread instead?

Yes.  I am comparing today's anti-gay movement to the anti-* movements of yester-year.  I can do so easily, because I realize that, in 20 years, the history books will back up my assertion that you are all deranged bigots of the highest order.  I'm sorry that you believe this particular round of hatred that has made it's way into our zeitgiest is somehow different than all of the other rounds of hatred that existed in other zeitgeists.  But I promise that every time a virulant strain of thinking such as this venom being spewed by the fundamentalists has infected humanity, the general belief by the followers of the time was that they were right.

You don't think "Help us kill Azn farmers won't get some inflammatory remarks returned to it? It would, just like GLBT would. Maybe not all the time, hell maybe not even 1/10th of a percent of the time, but it WOULD. I'm not asking these people to hide it under a bushel, but if you think saying you are a gay-friendly guild in general chat in a game with the playerbase of WoW's won't cause some seriuosly retarded, inflammatory remarks, you're fucking nuts.

It will, it does. If you don't think so, go into Ironforge and say, "Brokeback Mountain deserves all the Oscars." Gay cowboys eating pudding will cause a stir, and frankly, NONE of what would result is worth dealing with in a mass market MMOG.


I have a problem with anyone advertising in general chat for their guild, no matter the flavor because it creates guilds full of fucking idiots. Also, because I shouldn't have to hear it. But as a Blizzard GM, I could easily see how silencing the GLBT guild might be a reasonable course of action in order to stop the hordes of idiotic shittalking that would happen afterwards.

Walking into Ironforge and saying "I like gays" is about like walking into a cowboy bar and saying "All cowboys are gay." You're going to get a reaction, and you'll be lucky if that reaction isn't violent. If I was owner of the bar, I'd tell you to leave myself, simply because I don't want to have a bar brawl. And just like Blizzard, I'd be within my legal rights.

Blizzard caved to PC pressure, and I don't blame them. But they also did the smart thing and added a guild recruitment channel where that shit can live and not offend the general populace.

He said it would be inflammatory and would warrent doing something about.

I cannot say I enjoyed the recruitment spam in general.  I agree that more than likely the majority of people that would respond are people I would not want to be in a guild with.  I can understand a GM getting worried about the talk devolving because a few people cannot hear the word "gay" without going nuts.  But at the time, she was not doing anything wrong.

The first implies something about the one saying it and is not an insult but a statement of fact (assuming they are not trying to get into trouble).

The second is about everyone within the context of that situation and is meant as an insult.

There is a distinct difference between the two.  In the second, that person probably deserves something of what is coming to them.  In the first it should warrent no more than a shrug and a look of indifference.

As for within your legal rights, Lamda Legal disagreed.  In the end Blizzard's PR or law department also disagreed with the original position.  By stopping it where they did, no legal precident was set, which also lets them cover their (and the industry's) bums for a while longer.

I do not think they caved.  I think someone with a brain stepped in and solved this in just about the best manner possible for all parties concerned.  (Only the militants that want a legal ruling to shove it down your throats lost out, and they bother me almost as much as the biggots.)

The channel was created, so it is done now.  Guilds have a place to advertise, it is out of general chat, and if you do not want to hear about a GLBT-friendly guild that is recruiting, you can turn off the guild recruitment channel.  Everyone wins, so why are we still bitching about this?

I'm still posting because Haemish is doing a great Schild impression and refusing to admit when he's wrong.  I know the clarity of my posts often sucks so I will chalk it up to that and try again.


First thing I said in my post, which nullifies this point entirely:
"I have a problem with anyone advertising in general chat for their guild, no matter the flavor because it creates guilds full of fucking idiots. Also, because I shouldn't have to hear it."


This is exactly the line of thinking I have a problem with, the idiotic shittalkers are the problem here, not the person who is trying to form a guild where gay, faggot and cocksucker are considered acceptable insults to be thrown about and where *gasp* people might even talk about gaybars they went to on the weekend or parish the thought Brokeback Mountain without the comment going something like "I can't believe shit-packer mountain won awards, the academy must be a bunch of fucking homo's".

I can understand and sympathize with the GM, they just didn't want to deal with the flamefest, but the whole point is the people flaming the guild leader are FUCKING WRONG.  They are being intolerant stupid bigots, like our buddy Paelos was at the start of this whole fucking thread.

As long as we can all agree on that, there isn't anything else to talk about.

If somebody was advertising for a mature 30 years or older guild and a bunch of l33t kiddies started flaming them, Haemish & Paelos wouldn't be defending a GM who told the guild leader to stfu so he didn't have to deal with the l33t kiddies calling the guild leader an old fart or gramps or whatever stupid shit they would come up with.  That is a fucking double standard any way you cut it, so just stop it already.

Yup. 100% right.

What I find really funny is that sometimes I make the analogy to inter-racial marriage and then some black people will say "HOW *DARE* YOU COMPARE US TO FAGS!" Yesterday's hatred looks ugly but today's hatred is somehow totally different and justifiable. After we gave some rights to women it was still ok to hate black people, now that we don't hate black people it's ok to hate gay people. It's the same pattern over and over.

The saddest thing is that black people have no problem hating gays, and women had no problem hating black people. You would figure that a formerly oppressed group would have sympathy for other oppressed groups - but you'd be dead wrong. They can turn right around and hate with the best of them. Everybody wants somebody below them they can pick on.

Maybe I'll go retro: I hate black people. I'm 50s style! Now call me a bigot and I'll get all offended! How dare you call me a bigot for hating blacks!!!! Ruffians!

It takes a special kind of person to say:

"At the time we thought treating women as inferiors was ok, but then we realized it was wrong. Then we thought treating black people as inferiors was ok, but then we realized that was wrong too. Now we treat gay people as inferiors - but this time we're pretty damm sure we got it right this time, unlike all those other times where we just *thought* we were right."

1+1+1 = 54. Logic for the win.

---

As far as the whole gay guild thing, protecting people from themselves is usually a very weak rationalization for something. If "gaymers" started getting harrassed because they recruited in general chat they would have two choices:

1: Decide that the harrassment is worth it.
2: Decide that it isn't and stop.

It's that simple.

And last time I checked harrassing people is the wrong behavior - being harrassed is not. If gay gamers are being harrassed look at the chat logs and ban the harrassing accounts.

The only reason this is an issue is because homosexuals are the only minority that is still repressed and denied rights in places like the U.S. (On a large scale.) Name any other minority that can be called names in public and that is denied access to things every other minority has. (like marriage.)

10 years from now that will all be illegal and homosexuals will be just as protected as anyone else
20 years from now we'll all be paying for this current intolerance by yet more PC bullshit. We'll  probably be calling homosexuals something like "heterosexual impaired" or some crap.

In 100 years we'll either be in a very bland "utopia" where noone upsets anyone else or things will have finally stabilized, with no intolerance and no sugarcoating of things either. (Read no more PC bullshit. )

Note: I am speaking in generalities not absolutes when I use words like "noone".

We seem to be in almost violent agreement about this. Yes, the idiotic shittalkers are the problem, just as the cowboy shitkickers in a bar who bash the fuck out of the gay man in the bar are wrong. Doesn't change the fact that in reality, it's much easier, more efficient and frankly good business sense to tell the gay man he should probably take his business elsewhere, or to tell the GLBT guild leader that she's going to cause an argument and to keep it quiet.

It may not be RIGHT, as in morally that person should be allowed to say whatever the fuck they want. But it sure as fuck is reasonable. Gay rights parades can't just spontaneously go marching down the street without permits. And in a game where the general chat channel and anything the fuck else is up to Blizzard to decide what's appropriate, it's easier to silence one person/guild than the army of munchkin mongoloids who will start fights over that one person/guild.

Blizzard caved because they didn't want to get sued. That's it, plain and simple. Although I do believe they wouldn't have lost, because it's their place and they can determine what's appropriate within reason and what's not, they would have come across looking like gay-hating assholes. Which is just what apparently Paelos and I look like, despite the fact that Paelos's deviant comment is really the only negative thing we've said about gays.

And Cevik, stop being a troll. You know good and goddamn well that gassing the jews is about as SirBrucey a thing as you could have said in this entire thread. As I said, hyperbole doesn't help discussions, especially when it's just meant to stir shit up.

Yes, we feel superior to the fucking Vault. Get over it. I like being an elitist asshole when it comes to the Vault.


Again, the shittalkers ARE WRONG. But that doesn't stop them from talking shit, causing trouble and bringing an entire line of stupid shit into a game that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAME. Your guild being GLBT-friendly? NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAME. You being gay IN REAL LIFE? NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAME.

And that's what Paelos was talking about. It's the same kind of argument like hating names such as "Ilovehotdogs" only he mentioned gays, so suddenly he's fucking Hitler and he likes gassing homos. Isn't that right, Cevik?


But we aren't talking about agism, we are talking about homophobia. Only abortion, the death penalty, Bush and maybe Star Wars are going to cause more vehement nerd retard slap fights than homosexuality. Not all subjects or guild types are going to be the same lightning rods of controversy that GLBT will be.

And really, who here doesn't like gassing homos ?

It does when that's against the terms of service and your account can be terminated for it.

If you want to get techincal, then transsexuals.

While most of the gay-movement has adopted them due to overlapping concerns (and strength in numbers), there are a lot of differences between them.   To the point that some gays react with a lot of hostility towards transfolk.  Many places that have protection clauses for sexual orientation lack one for gender identification.  There are other aspects in the law that differ as well, some that actually benefit a couple with one being a TS over a gay one.

On a more emotional level, most people understand homosexuality even if they have a knee-jerk reaction to it.  Almost no one can comprehend what the transsexual is feeling and only a whole lot of dialog, which requires a rather open mind, is going to change that.

Being a much smaller minority ([very] roughly 1/10 versus 1/300 from what I remember), they also make a less tempting target to bash.

I tried that, but either no-one noticed or cared, there only seemed to be some talk about football. Could be that the movie is just not very known, because frankly, wild wild west and cowboys just suck. Yay, dust, shantytowns and the daily threat of violence.

Just seems to me that you'd like speech to be as free or freer on European and Asian servers than on American servers.

I have to try a line about abortion later tonight. Is "No woman should be denied abortion" good enough?

The funny thing here is that Haemish is usually such a good anti-Schild.

Thanks to an interesting error in quote tags, there is a quote in the post above this that is attributed to me, that I didn't actually say.  Though it is something I agree with, I just didn't say it.  I did, upon reading the quote do a quick inventory of my stash, to see if any of the more esoteric pills (the ones that can result in large amounts of lost time and posts that I do not even remotely recall) were missing. 

Thankfully, they are all still there, ready for a nice long weekend in Vegas.. right next to the halloween lizard tail and the tape recorder..

Yeah that was me, not you.

It just gets tiresome to see people make the same mistakes over and over and over again in all walks of life. Work, politics, civil rights, etc. People can be amazing blockheads - be wrong about something 100 times in a row then convince themselves that the 101st time they just *must* be right even though they are using the exact same logic as the first 100 times. There is always some group to hate for whatever reason that makes no sense. In this case it's men taking it up the ass. Wow, that really makes a HUGE difference in my everyday life damn those homosexuals and their radical agenda!

More on-topic, creating a gay recruitment channel is silly. A solution in search of a problem. What was the original problem here anyway? That gay people were advertising a gay-friendly guild.

What about oldsters advertising a guild for people that can only play on Saturday nights?

I don't see how this was ever an issue other than Blizzard stupidly made it an issue for no good reason. I doubt it was because they are anti-gay though -  just dumb.

It's really sad to think that gay players need a dedicated channel because they would get harrassed if they didn't have it. Of course the right thing to do would be ban the harassers but that would mean lost $.

Yeah, that's my quotetag fuckup there. Also the last bit attributed to margalis is my own text.

Also, it's not a gay recruitment channel. It's a guild recruitment channel. For anyone and everyone..

That's what I thought they said they were going to do. Having a dedicated recruitment channel is not bad but this being the catalyst is still a bit odd.

I dunno, I was starting to wonder where they were all coming from.

Guilt?  :-o

"In Govan we do not gas our Jews."

I have no guilt.  I don't think the current generation should have any guilt either.  I do not believe in Sins of the Father.

You only share those sins if you do not learn from them...

Agree.  But I also don't agree with someone continually pushing their sexuality in my face to the point where it defines everything that they are as a individual.  Do I really need to know who or what you have sex with in a video game?

Oh, and when you racist motherfuckers really get enlightened, I'll introduce you to my girlfriend from Orion!

(http://24.249.204.199/vina8.jpg)

I totally agree.  Which is why jailing that British Fuck (TM) who denied the holocaust was so important.

This is my girlfriend, don't tell whatsisname the Starwars/UO fanboi though, he'll be upset and jealous.
(http://gwiezdne-wojny.pl/grafika/2002/cze/as1.jpg)

I've also got a problem with anyone pushing their anything into my face, but letting teh gays have their own guild isn't something I take offence to any more than teh Jesuphiles doing the same. Their guildchat isn't in general chat, so what the fuck do I care?

And yes, I'm only posting this continuation of the dead horse as an excuse to post the pic of the half-naked green starwars chick...
note the firm grip she has on the shaft. of the lightsaber. Hm.. pointy starwars nipples, too. :hello_kitty:


edit - spellings ftw!

Kind of a butterface. And definitely a butterhead.

Haven't heard those terms before. They mean....?

"Butterface" is a play on "but her face" as in "everything on her is nice but her face". I tend to use it on girls that do look kind of buttery. (A shiny face with some babyfat)

Butterhead is just a dumb term I just made up as a play on butterface. Because her head has those tubes growing out of it.

I am given to understand that the actress is question is actually prettier without the transition into Twi'lek.

Having just now done some "research" on said actress, she comes up as looking alternately attractive and hideous in the various photos. I did have to ask about "butterface" though, because some guesses on WTF it meant were ..less classy than others.

You just caused strokes in 30% of the Star Wars fanbois out there.

Thank you for pushing your sexuality on me.

Amazingly, It works both ways.

Which means I may have killed Nutsack.  Which is like the letter that comes in telling me I may already be a winner in the Bookclub Sweepstake.

Ah, exactly where did I describe what my sexual leanings were?  I simply stated she was my girlfriend.  I'm sure you've many girlfriends without having sex with them...?  You cannot reasonably even discern my orientation from that passage.  That was really the point of my quip.

Point is, I never, and neither do most I know, see the need to walk into a MUD, MOO, or MMOG and spout off personal information, much less who or what I have sex with, on any level.  There are plenty of 'adult' entertainment centers throughout the Internet.  Just check into any IRC and see how they've all gone to hell in the last 20 years.  WoW or any MMOG that doesn't cater to an exclusively adult audience should be able to set standards of conduct that exclude sexuality being introduced into their game.  Just because someone may believe being homosexual grants you 'rights' doesn't mean it grants you ownership of Blizzard.

We had a new person join the guild the other night who wanted to describe their past 5 years of love history to someone else in the EQ2 section of our ventrilo during play.  Collectively, a good 10 people told them to make a channel because it was TMI.  'We' wanted to play a game.  'We' are not there to be their counselor, boy/girlfriend, or confidant.  Take it, and the recruitment of people based upon whatever 'it' is, somewhere else, IMO.

Yes.  All of them.  Bitches.

So to summarize:

Mentioning your Boyfriend is "ZOMG STOP PUSHING YOUR SEXUALITY ON ME"

Mentioning your Girlfriend is "perfectly acceptable behavior"..

And not respecting your right to hate gays is "intolerant"..

I love bizarro world.. it's my favorite world of them all..

I suppose the half of my quip being tongue-in-cheek was lost, however your rebuttal kind of fuels my real point.

Someone saying they are gay has no more meaning than saying "I am male and attracted to men" (or "female attracted to women" or what have you).  Nothing more is implied.  They may not have had a relationship, may be celibate, may be like most couples and have sex once a week, or they may fuck like bunnies.  But none of us know that from simply saying they are gay.

It is not akin to giving you their sexual history.

As for your use of "my girlfriend", the vast majority of people are going to interpret that statement as "this is my female partner".  Given the context of only what you said, whether correct or not in the assumption, further most will think "Sarius is male and this is his female partner".  Given the proper context they might take it as "female friend".  To give that impression you need to use "female friend" or "girl [space] friend".  As one word it implies a relationship.

Sure you may be technically correct, but people do not think that way.  What it comes down to is the only difference in your statement and someone saying they are gay is the genes of whom the speaker is attracted to.

Out of curiosity, when you wrote it, although probably off-hand and without much thought, were you thinking "girlfriend" as in a trophy babe hanging off your arm or as in a gal pal you hang out with?

The average hetero male probably makes it perfectly clear that they are hetero 20 times a day. They just don't realize it because it seems normal.

Guess we'll agree to disagree here.  Until I commonly see rampant guilds running around WoW screaming, "recruiting for heterosexual friendly guild here!", it is a statement of your sexuality.  It's almost 3pm here in the day, I've probably met eight new people today, and I cannot remember having the need to tell anyone my sexuality once.


No, I was thinking of baiting the same trap that I see so many 'ual'/'ism' personalities desire in order to fulfill their place in the universe apparently.  Call me odd-out, but I fail to see if someone believes that it is typical to have homosexuals in existence how they then believe that the need for overt drama based upon a person's sexuality is justified.

Wait just a minute, you are the one causing the overt drama.  We are saying "let them say they are gay, it doesn't hurt anything" you are saying "OMGZ WTF NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IT PUSHES THEIR SEXUALITY IN OUR FACE!! WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH STOP BEING SO DRAMATIC!!!!"

None of us are saying wether or not we believe homosexuality is normal, typical, abnormal, peachy keen or any other adjective.  None of us are being dramatic.  We are saying "let the person say 'I am gay' and stop freaking out you closet homo"..

You can't go around throwing big dramatic fits then demanding everyone else stop being so dramatic all the time..

Thank you, Cevik.

Seriously, Sarius, fuck you.

This thread was probably one of the better things that ever happened on the internet, people learned, forgave, and dropped their stupid semantic laden arguments.

(http://www.starwars.jp/character/image/bib_fortuna.jpg)

Unfortunately, this was the hottest male Twi'Lek I could find. If you look, he's bulging in all the right places though...

You are the one saying that we are homophobic, when I've said no such thing. I clearly stated that I didn't give a fuck if they were a bunny fuckers guild, I just thought their use of "WE'RE LE GAY!" was idiot-bait for mongoloid retards in the WoW community, and thus was going to cause problems. It's chum in the idiot waters. That doesn't make me homophobic, that makes me intelligent.

You are the one who says that suddenly I'm gassing Jews and restricting the rights of homosexuals. That's hyperbolic and doesn't help the discussion.

So the best solution is for them to shut-up and stay in the closet, obviously.  Dealing with the idiots is too much work, they bring so much to the game after all, so it is better if we just keep the gays gagged.

Sorry, but for some reason that logic does not sit well with me.

No, it's what you are doing, it's in no way hyperbolic.  You do not exist in a vacuum, your actions are part of the larger actions on a whole that ARE doing those very things in this country.  Just because YOU think it's okay for YOU to tell them to shut up and stop being themselves, doesn't ACTUALLY make it okay..

I no longer know what this has to do with Shadowbane.

Ah Mondays.

That a load of horseshit.  The moment you make an organization which labels itself based upon a sexual identity the collective 'you' that participates in that group is creating the stage for being an advocacy political group.  Now, refreshing everyone's memory, this is within a video game, not a college, or PAC association, or anywhere else that any plausible denial of rights would ever come into effect.  I've played MMOGs with thousands of people without once having the need or desire to give a shit about their sexuality.  I have no tags up saying anything of the type, and somehow because I'd rather play a game in a virtual world (and the owners or said game, too, I might add) without ever knowing someone's sexuality I'm the Neanderthal.


Learned what?  That provincial guilt can beat anyone into submission?  No thanks, spin on your own.  Every bit of this crap hurts homosexual advocacy because some assholes think that their 'right' to drama is excused by the fact that they advocate gay atmospheres in a video game.  The majority of gay people I know neither desire RuPaul for a lifestyle nor banner.  My immediate circle of friends has a gay family with children who play WoW.  I reflected this thread with one of them over the weekend and she could not imagine wanting someone recruiting her 13 year old into a 'gay' guild, or any MMOG activity based upon sexuality.


More bullshit laden guilt.  I've not advocated just one group to stay in the closet.  I'm reflecting that most responsible people I know don't feel the desire to broadcast their personal sexuality in video games.  Really doesn't matter what orientation said people might be.  I'd be just as pissed off at heterosexuals, monkey jumpers, or centaurs doing the same thing.

I'm sorry, we don't hire dirty centaurs here.

That is complete and total horseshit.  Just because YOU decided to take SOMEONE ELSES sexual identiy and make politics out of it, doesn't mean their sexual idenity is inherently political.

Hmm, let's see the article where the centaurs got management of Blizzard to conduct sensitivity training....?  Right.

Not treating people like second class citizens because if their sexual identity is NOT politics.  You have a very fucked up sense of politics.

EDIT:  People came into the game and acted like.. people.. they discussed what they had in common and tried to group with people who had similar interests.  Blizzard banned them.  They demanded a retraction and won.  None of that is politics.  YOU are the one who has decided to make this political..

People came into the game recruiting groups along sexual associations -- something expressly forbidden in the EULA according to the press release I saw.  If you don't recognize the activity as political nothing I say is going to change your mind.  But, it is the very apex of political advocacy to achieve what you've described.

It absolutely is not.  These are people being people.  They are PEOPLE being PEOPLE.  They are not politically advocating ANYTHING at all.  They are just trying to hang out in a game with like minded people.

My guild aims to recruit 22-30 year old mature gamers for the most part.  Mainly because that's what we are and that's what we want to deal with in our everyday game.  Is that the very apex of politcal advocacy?  No.  It's just us trying to find some people that we like hanging out with.  The GLBT Friendly guild IS THE EXACT SAME THING.  Just a group of people hanging out recruiting other people they can deal with on a daily basis.  The only difference between my guild and theirs is that YOU, a completely unrelated third party, have decided that the GLBT friendly guild is somehow political because YOU have decided that GLBT should be in politics.  That's the ONLY difference.

I haven't read this entire thread, but my understanding is that the guild was not gay-only, it was "only for people who don't act like raging fucktards towards gays" which is pretty different, and not banned by the EULA.

My understanding is different.  Having said that, exactly when does someone become identified as a gay video game toon?  There's no label on any WoW toon I've ever seen like that.

Nobody told them to stay in the goddamn closet. They were just told not to drive their Gay Pride Parade complete with assless pants down Homophobe Drive without a goddamn parade license and a police escort. Or, you know, just advertise that they had a guild and when someone contacts them privately, THEN tell the recruit that they were GLBT-friendly as the first thing.

Sure, you could just let them advertise in public channels. You could then search out all the fucktards (and they might be legion) who start some shit and ban all of them. That'd be great. Meanwhile your CS queue of SHIT THAT MATTERS TO THE GAME BESIDES ENJOYING BEING ASSFUCKED BY A SWEATY MAN OR CHANGING YOUR GENDER fills up.

Some people like to play a game to get away from the bullshit they have to listen to in real life. That bullshit can include how everyone needs to be tolerant of gay people and that "we're here and we're queer!" It can also include bullshit like "GOD HATES GAYS" and "AIDS was a punishment from God on gay people." Some people really don't want to hear that shit in a game they are using as a modest escape from reality. You know, entertainment and all. I respect that sentiment. That sentiment is one of the reasons I turn off general chat channels in every game I go into because I don't want to hear any of it. It's why entire RP servers get made. It has nothing to do with closeting gays, so much as it does keeping the game from not being an escape.

Guildchat is entirely different. Once you are in guilds, you have chosen to be there so talking about RL isn't a big deal. You asked to be there. You don't get that choice with general chat, it's just thrust upon you.

Personally, I wish we could put the STUPID people in the closet. But they are much harder to find than gays, or gay-bashers. Or Jew-gassing Nazis.

Would you be so supportive of someone recruiting for a guild based on the KKK?

Oh please.  How long before we're back to gassing Jews ?

I didn't know we'd stopped gassing Jews.

Let's put it another way. How supportive would you be of NAMBLA guilds advertising in open chat? Ganga guilds? Gun law guilds? Abortion guilds?

OK, but only on a pvp server. And only if they're the opposing faction. :)

I can't believe this lasted 6 pages.. get a grip. Guilds are community creators, people like to commune with like souls. Some people are bigots. Thus, you can (will) have bigot guilds. That's life, that's humanity. They are free to share their opinion, it's a free country. THIS is only a game. Remember that. As long as it doesn't infringe on the majority of people's playing, it shouldn't be banned. Remember, they are paying customers, too.

I have no problem with blizzard's call, I have no issues with a GBL friendly guild, and I don't care about a neo-nazi friendly guild or one called mexican jew lizards, "OMG FOR THE CHILDREN" guilds or not.

NAMBLA "activities" are illegal.  "Gangstas," pro/anti gun law advocates and pro-choice / -life types are not socailly disadvantaged to the extent that they NEED their own guild, as evidenced by the fact that there are no such guilds.  (Or, if some such thing exists somewhere, then take as evidence the fact that there is no 6-page thread on the topic of its existence.)

If you don't like the idea of GBLT-friendly types feeling the need for their own guild, work towards a world where they don't feel like they need one.  Otherwise, if you can't change the fact that they are looked down upon in general society, you can't then complain that they seek their own kind for friendship.

The argument... she makes the circle...


!

I didn't. I never said they shouldn't have their own guild, or that the formation of a guild was bad. I didn't even say that recruiting for their guild was bad, just the method in which they chose to do it. It's a method that insures eventually there will be needless fucking drama started. Drama that has nothing to do with the game or the world. I see no lore in WoW that says homosexuals, lesbians or transgenered folk are persecuted or that they even exist (or don't) in the world of Azeroth. So how exactly is advertising for a GLBT-friendly guild helping serve the lore? Oh wait, IT ISN'T. Just like yelling about the Steelers winning the Super Bowl in general chat isn't serving the lore. I'd love for people that do that to be banned too. I suppose that means I'm for the gassing of football fans or maybe just Steelers' fans.

Reading comprehension is fucking hard in this thread.

I'm up for gassing football fans.

Really.

SUPER BOWL!!! ONE FOR THE THUMB BABY!!!

To bring this back on topic, I'm gay for Hines Ward.

If they are advertising a "NAMBLA friendly" guild then I see no problem with it.  If they are using the game to perform illegal activities they should be investigated and put in jail.  Basically I feel the same way about the GLBT friendly guild, if they are just saying "GLBT friendly" I think it's perfectly acceptable, if they are using /1 to have ghey cyber sexx0rz they need to be banned.  There is a pretty clear line between lewd public conduct and advertising that you are friendly to a group of people.


If you mean "gansta" guilds then I've never seen a MMOG with PvP enabled that DIDN'T have this.  Never, not once.  You never saw me try to get SiN banned from Shadowbane because they were a bunch of wannabe gansta's did ya?  If you mean a guild using /g to assist in performing illegal activities, I covered that above.  Last I read, being gay wasn't quite illegal yet (though I'll give you credit, you are working towards it very effeciently)..


I care why?  I thought I read a big writeup on Christian guilds in WoW and who WONDERFULL (TM) it was?  I have no problem with a "Republican Friendly" guild if that's what you mean.  I was in a "Democrat Friendly" guild for quite some time.. We would gladly have /gkicked anyone who told us we couldn't be liberals in /g, I have no problem with someone starting a guild that has the opposite (though clearly wrong) opinion..


See above.

It must be really really really eventual because in all the times I've been in or known of GLBT guilds recruiting, often in public channels (where everyone else does), the ONLY drama that has EVER been created was on behalf of customer service people.

Wow, you've hit on the exact reason that GLBT friendly guilds are formed.  Welcome to the world, you are not the only person in it.

(http://wowvault.ign.com/races/images/nightelves.jpg)  ?

It was going in circles before you trolled in and that didn't stop you.

Triforcer is on a role today or whenever it was he posted that and the Schild ownage in the SWG thread.

Sarius, we've already been down this road go read the first four pages of this stupid thread.

Just to Recap:

EXAMPLE #1:
Guild recruits in general for mature players, looking for people over the age of 21, no l33t speak, swearing or sexual commentary allowed in /g, children of guild members are allowed but otherwise no minors.

Nobody is going to take issue with this, except some l33t kiddies in general who everyone on these boards would instantly put down as fuckheads.

The guild is restricting membership based on RL criteria.
The guild is restricting what they want to deal with in /g.

EXAMPLE #2:
Guild recruits in general channel for a LGBT "friendly" guild.  No other criteria.

All of a fucking sudden they might as well have shoved their collective dicks and/or dildo's down your throat.  FORCING you to deal with their sexuality in a game, oh the fucking horror of it all.  Why are they trying to have their stupid gay parade in a video game when they know that the majority of the player base doesn't want to deal with that shit?  Why can't they just be gay and stfu about it in-game?  You know like straight people do.. oh wait, I've never been in a guild where the members didn't often discuss the relative hotness of various females in RL, where sexual comments weren't commonplace and in 50%+ of the guilds I've been in there have been people who use some if not all of the following terms:  That was gay.  Your gay.  Stop being gay. Fucking faggot dragon didn't drop any loot, and so on.

But please lets go through this all over again, I'm having so much fucking fun.

Like doing donuts in an icy parkinglot, it's fun.

Here you can read the full email exchange (http://www.worldofwar.net/articles/glbt.php).  Blizzard was the one ignoring the EULA they quoted back as their reasoning.  Nothing wrong was ever done by Ms. Andrews, and the higher ups agreed which is why they apologized in the ned.  (As things progress she does get ranty and by that point neither side is listening to the other.)

El Gallo's assessment is true.  The only thing that guild was trying to do was make a place where people can feel safe without having "ghey" shoved in their face every five minutes.  They had no agenda, no want for pride parades or whatever Haemish is going on about.  They just wanted people with a similar outlook to play the game with.

Until someone loses an eye.

As far as I see, this thread ends with Triforcer's post.

ZOMG THE PAIN IT BURNS IT BURNS.  THE SEXUALITY IS INVADING THE VERY ESSENCE OF MY BEING!!1!  HOW CAN I EVER ESCAPE IT!!1!

And they could easily have gotten "people with a similar outlook to play the game with" in the method I described, without ever saying "GLBT" in general chat. How hard is that to understand? Let me draw a goddamn diagram of what I'm trying to illustrate.

X < - This is GLBT-friendly guild recruiting person in the middle of Ironforge (or wheverever).

I I I I I I I < - Conglomeration of potential recruits who are WoW players in Ironforge (and are potentially raving fucking idiots).

X: Recruiting for the guild INSERTGUILDNAMEHERE!

I: I would like to join INSERTGUILDNAMEHERE!

X: /tell I We are a Gay, Lesbian and Transgender friendly guild. Do you have a problem with that?

Notice nothing about the sexuality of the guild was in General Chat. Notice how no one has anything in that statement to ever get pissed off about unless they (like me) just do not like guild recruitment in general channels. Notice how gay-bashing twats have no hooks on which to bash gays. Notice how Blizzard has no reason to ban or otherwise make one movement towards this person (unless they suddenly had rules about no guild recruitment in general).

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THAT SCENARIO? WHO IS HURT BY IT? WHOSE FUCKING RIGHTS ARE ABRIDGED AND WHAT JEWS WERE GASSED IN THE MAKING THEREOF?

None, no one, fucking nothing. It's real goddamn simple.

Change the equation. Make I a raging homophobe. Fuck it, why don't you make I into Paelos, who really doesn't want to hear about gay people in general chat, since a PLAYER'S SEXUALITY HAS FUCKALL TO DO WITH THE FUCKING GAME, YOU DUMB CUNTSLAPPERS. Make X's statement be "We are a Gay, lesbian and transgender friendly guild" and yes, you do have something people can be upset about.

But hey, Blizzard was wrong, I'm fucking Himmler, and this thread is retarded.

Yes, because the bigot will clearly response with "/r oops, sorry, my bad" and be done with it..

Suuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrreeeeee....

Better the one bigot acts up then 20 bigots in general. You can then /report said bigot for harrassment and it's a lot quieter for the other people in the game who really don't give a fuck.

Or you can say the simple line I quoted above (that came from the CSR that did the banning) and anyone who acts like a retard can be /reported.

Page 7, yay!

BTW:  The people on the vault aren't as retarded as you guys when it comes to this.  It's a sad state to see more bigots arguing the gays should stfu here on f13 than on the vault.  A sad day indeed.

The only one who has said that is you.

If they really didn't give a fuck and wanted a quiet game they would have /left 1 a long fucking time ago.

So really this isn't about people who dont want to deal with general this is about people who dont want to deal with homosexuality in their video games.

I pointed out my own hypocrisy in the fact that while I'll fight for these people's rights to have a LGBT friendly guild (I can see the need for this) I think that anyone who uses Azn, Boi or Flip in their internet handle is a fucking twat of the highest degree.  If Chinaman or Chink was used anywhere near as often by the common internet gamer as fag and gay are then I would be forced to accept that at this time the general culture of gaming is not tolerant enough to not force people to bring race into my video game.

But your position runs completely opposite of that logic, the LGBT friendly folks should walk on eggshells because such a large % of the WoW population has bigot tendencies?  They should follow rules that dont apply to other people, for the sake of maintaining the peace?  That is just fucking horseshit, and I will never agree with it.

P.S.  Add twat to the dictionary kplzthx

Fixed it to actually reflect what I've been trying to say this whole goddamn thread that very few of your motherfuckers seem to understand.

Yeah, that's what I want. Every gay should hide their special and unique gay light under a bushel. That's exactly what I've said.

Are we reading the same thread?

In general chat channels. I said nothing about STFU forever and ever and never mention their gayness again. You said that, not me.

When did Gay become a political identity in this fucking country? And who made it that way?

Republicans.

Uhh, since you are now being EXTREMELY overly absurdly pendantic, I must point out that what you quoted from me said this:


EDIT: 

IDIOT #1: "GAYS SHUT UP"
Me:  "So your argument is that gays should shut up"
IDIOT #1:  "I R TEH NEVAR SAID THAT!1!"
Me:  "quote:  'GAYS SHUT UP'"
IDIOT #1:  "YAH WEEL I R TEH MEANT ONLY IN PUBIC!"

That logic was already soundly trounced in my mind by the multiple examples of guild's using RL data to find perspective members that would be perfectly acceptable to all you fuckers.

Please explain why it is ok to advertise recruitment based on:
-Timezones
-Age (mature guilds)
-Sex (female only guilds)
-Country of origin
-Language acceptable in /g (no l33t speak)
-Religion

Now sure you can pick a few of these and say "no thats not ok" but if you can't tell me that ALL of those aren't ok then your standards make no fucking sense.

If you even dare follow this up with:  Well tell them to stop spamming guild recruitment in general I'm going to fucking kill you.  THERE WAS NO GUILD RECRUITMENT CHANNEL AT THE TIME, anyone who was willing or desperate enough to wade through the fucking masses advertised in general because that was the only way to do it.

That completely fucks over this point:

So now we are back to this point:


So we are telling gay people to stfu and stop telling us they are gay because we are protecting the fucking RP'ers?

You must be goddamn kidding me.

No one respects the RP'ers.  Even on an RP server.  :cry:

June 28, 1969 1:20am.

Pls add "gaymer" to spellcheck thx

Actually, I was posting on this thread back on page one. And had several costs with content before you posted at all. But feel free to FOAD. kthxbye~

This we can agree on.  RP'ers ruin the damn games more often than not because they only want RP to matter when they want it.

For instance, Christians/whatever religion having guilds in a fantasy MMORPG.  WTF?  Somehow I don't think Christ (or any other godhead) established religions to fuel a video game.   On the scale of wrongness, I'd rather have everyone join the aforementioned GLBT guilds than one single person have a religious guild in a video game.

None of that is ok to use when advertising for a guild in a public chat channel, because I do not think you should advertise for a guild at all in a public chat channel. As I've said about a billion fucking times in this thread. Which is why the guild recruitment channel solves the whole thing so fucking neatly.

When you get in private tells, you can advertise for your guild all you goddamn want with anything that tickles your goddamn fancy.


Fine, at which point I told them to advertise for the guild as if it was any other guild, i.e. "We are a guild recruiting." That's all you need in a public chat channel. EVER. Anything else is probably bound to cause a problem somewhere. That doesn't hide anyone's gay light under a bushel. Make the first words out of your mouth in private be "We are a GLBT" or whatever else you need to to make the recruitment fit your guild. In my EQ guild, our first contact with the person was in private (because we never advertised in public chat channels) and it was "We are a mature, over 18 guild of casual friendly players who aren't trying to be uber raiders." None of that was in a public chat channel, and thus we avoided great big screaming shit fits from SOMEONE, ANYONE who might have a problem with us personally or our recruitment standards. And yes, I had many arguments with under 18 people who thought our rules sucked, but they were IN PRIVATE and didn't bother the rest of the general population.

See how that works? I didn't cause drama, nor did I do something that was likely to cause drama.


No, we are telling people that shit which has nothing to do with the game should be kept in private areas like guild chat, or tells, or group chat. Just like I don't want to hear water cooler chat played over the office intercom, or the descriptions of someone's date played over a loudspeaker at the mall, I don't want to hear whether someone is gay IN REAL LIFE within the confines of a game's general chat channels. Just like I don't want to hear fuckheaded political arguments or shitfits about someone's RP or not-RP name in general chat channels.

It's the kind of arguments and discussions that come up in these general chat channels that make me turn them off. And frankly, I shouldn't have to. One less form of spam (guild recruitment) regardless of its sexual persuasion is one less form of spam in my general chat.

The kind of argument we've had in this thread? This is the kind of retarded argument that gets started in general chat when you use it to recruit for a "GLBT-friendly" guild instead of just "a guild recruiting."

I also disapprove of "sit-in" protests in games because they also disrupt the game world. Call me an RP fag if you want, but yes there are just somethings that should not be in public chat channels.

I'll just represent this thread in mime.

O

So your argument is, that the gay people should shut up because people like you won't be able to shut up in general chat?

I think they should take the blacks out of our schools.  I'm not racist or anything, I don't mind drinking after them at the water fountain, but all those OTHER PEOPLE who are racist just can't handle it and it distracts from the learning.  It's just better for everyone if they don't rub their blackness in our face all the time.

You really enjoy being an ignorant troll sometimes.

And no, it isn't just the gay people that should shut up. It's the trolly people too. And the conservatives. And liberals. And sports fans. And name nazis. And griefers. And anyone else that's going to bring up shit that has nothing to do with the game just so everyone in the zone can hear it. It's like playing a game of football on a console and having Anderson Fucking Cooper break into your game and say "There's starving people in Rawanda!" It has nothing and no one to do with my game.

Really, we should just remove zonewide chat channels, they only lead to more problems.

As long as they're Republican blacks, who cares?  C I L L my landlord!

Or the assholes like you can just turn them off and be done with it.  Or, an even better idea, you can just stop playing online games where you'll encounter other people, since they apparently upset your delicate PC sensibilities.

I don't particularly hate muslims, but I think we should round them all up and kill them.  After all, it's the only way to get people like angry.bob to stop coming to message boards about VIDEO GAMES and ranting about the upcoming Christo-Mulsim war.

Touché.  I would laugh were it not for what that date represents.

Meh? PC sensibilities? How are my sensibilities in anyway PC? I just want people to shut their festering, shit-spewing gobs about stuff that has no business in a game in zonewide chat channels, you know like real fucking life. Play the game, not the fucking martyr. Or to use a cliche, come down off the cross, we could use the wood.

People don't upset my sensibilities, they piss me off. People are the worst, twat-flapping retards to ever walk the planet. I have no problem with people who want to play games, I have problems with people who want to bring their real-life issues into games as if it belongs there. Go march in the fucking streets if you want to end intolerance of gay people, I'll gladly applaud you if you have a proper marching permit. I'm tolerant of most things, but not stupidity, and not useless martyr-crying drama queening attention whoring. Or trolling.

I think we should round up the Communists personally.

Do any of you others besides cevik realize that cevik loves to troll threads that get his goat sometimes, simply because he knows it starts shitfests like this one? I realize he's said it in this thread, but I don't think most of you get it. He likes prolonging threads. He's almost Bruce-like in that respect, but he has a lot to learn from the master. You need more nested quotes, longer replies and you need to mention your own sexuality a few times. Also, you should mention college date rape, roofies and farm animals a few times.

And don't forget to keep mentioning how I want to gas the jews, lock gay people in closets and oppress the black race.

And your response is to twat-flap like the best of them, and tell everyone they have to shut up so they don't bother you and the way YOU want to play the game.  You are doing the EXACT same thing you accuse the PC people of the world of doing, and you cleverly mask it in bullshit and dirty words so that you can pretend you are teh awesome.

You are the worst.. THE WORST sand in his vagina whiner on the internet, yet you think you are so fucking cool and hip with in your neoliberalist facade of logical fallacies.  You are twenty times worst than the straw man you made up on the other side, and you are so shrouded in the retarded bullshit you spew that you don't even realize the very crap you rail against is the EXACT SAME BULLSHIT YOU PULL IN EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THREAD.

But go ahead, whine about everyone else in the world ruins your good time, and then come back and throw around a few new dirty words you made up so that you can feel cool like Cartman and prove to yourself that you aren't just the exact same tired old PC bullshit wrapped in a sleek new shiny wrapper.

This thread is just about ready to be dragged across the Rio Grande.  Just waiting for the magic word.

Heh, the truth does hurt, doesn't it? ;)

Heh, for the record, I agree with your position in this thread.  This thread, however, has just become a cyclic poo flinging contest.  It should probably die.

Edit: The English language is just giving me fits today.

I am Cartman.

As for being annoyed by other people spewing stupid shit in general chat, I guess if it were up to you, general chat would be open to absolutely any and all kind of idiotic spew? You have to look at general chat in an MMOG in almost exactly the same way you would look at any public place in real life. If someone causes a disturbance in real life, like say walks into a mall and begins screaming in a megaphone to join his super-neato elite club, the owners of the public gathering place have the right to tell him to STFU. And the other patrons of the place have the right to say "He's harshing my buzz, man." And if he continues to not STFU, the owners have a right to call the police and have him arrested. And if one of the patrons starts a fight, they can all be arrested.

What's the problem? The screamer got his right to free speech right up until it abridged someone else's right to fucking enjoy their latte in peace. Are you saying the right to free speech in a privately-owned public space actually supercedes the right to personal space not being disturbed? Or that the owner of an establishment doesn't have the right to toss out anyone causing a ruckus that he deems against the rules of his establishment?

It sounds to me like what you are saying is that YOUR (or in this case, said Gay Person) right to speak is more important than other people's right to tell you to STFU, or that your right to free speech is more important than the owner of building's right to keep his customers from being disturbed. Blizzard is the owner of the establishment. The customers have a right to NOT have their personal space invaded, a right which is not superceded by anyone's sexuality or anything else. You can speak all you want, and so can they, but they better be willing to accept the CONSEQUENCES of that speech. Those consequences can be getting arrested or banned, or yelled at or called a homo or whatever. And if the yellers abridge the speakers' rights, they should accept those consequences too.

But don't blame Blizzard for not wanting a ruckus going on in Ironforge every time this guild wanted to recruit. THAT'S THEIR RIGHT. And don't blame me because I don't want to hear non-game-related bullshit in general chat channels. That's my right too.

Just to keep score:

Haemish: "Just play the game.  I don't want to hear how you like to 'do it'."

Cevik: "No, you need to listen to everyone around you and like it.  LIKE IT and don't complain!"

Haemish:  "But I don't want to, you *#&*$#"

Cevik: "I don't care.  You must.  Don't call me *#&*$#.  It hurts my feelings.  I don't like that."

/leave 1.

Yeah - that's about it.

I'm still not clear on two things:

1. Why don't you realize that you are the minority? A vocal one, but still a minority. A large majority of the people feel like expressing their views on their sexuality, your sexuality, and your mom's sexuality. Blizzard lets this becuase there are simply too many people to police and also because those people (or their parents) pay a $15/mo subscription. Your co-players are frothing retards that make barrens chat what it is today and it's time to realize that. Blizzard does some simple math - (Salary and overhead for chat policer  >   Subscriptions lost due to offended players). It's simple math, and when it makes people happy to spam "O RLY?" 6 line macros in ironforge, and it's not enough for others to cancel their subscriptions, it's clear which direction blizzard will take.

2. Why do you act like general chat is being forced on you? you can just /leave if you don't like it. The signal to noise ratio in there is dreadful, there is a trade channel for anything you actually want to say to people, and frankly, you don't seem to like anyone else on that server except for theoretical guild mates, what's the big deal? You have NO RIGHTS, but neither does anyone else. It IS like city streets, people can scream "You're a cocksucking whore" - ok let's be fair, this is WoW - "UR A COCKSUKIN WHORE LOL" and maybe get banned (or ticketed for disturbing the peace, like in real life), or they can scream "I'm looking for people to join my GLBT guild!" and be looked at in annoyance (just like in real life) from people like you. Nowhere in either real life or blizzard's rules does it say it's illegal, nor should it be stopped. No matter what people like you think.

But your argument is the exact reverse of this.  You are saying that people can't advertise THEIR guild in the SAME fasion as EVERYONE ELSE IS ALREADY DOING because someone LIKE YOU might be offended.  I say ban the fuck out of you, don't tell the guy who is doing the EXACT SAME THING AS EVERYONE ELSE that he has to stop because some fuckwad who think's he's uber cool like Cartman is going to get sand in his vagina and get his panties in a bunch.

Eh, I've never once said that my feelings were hurt.  I said Haemish is a fucking retard, and he is.  I said Haemish think's he's hip and cool, and he does.  I said it's pathetic and it is.

Haemish is the one crowing endlessly that if he hears about someone's sexuality he may well be SCARRED FOR LIFE.  Nice attempt to put his argument in my mouth though.

EDIT:  Furthermore I'm not saying that you EVER have to LISTEN TO ANYONE about how they like to "do it".  I'm saying that the 4 letters GLBT and the word Friendly aren't fucking worth getting sand in your vagina you PC whiner.

EDIT2:  To reiterate how fucking stupid you guys are, here is the EXACT quote someone was warned over, yet again:


If you are getting THIS worked up over that, you have some SERIOUS issues.

The best part about the "ZMOG BAN THEM SO THER WIL BE NO CONTREVERSY" theory that Haemish is now supporting:

There was no controversy.. until they were banned.

I don't think anyone has the right to recruit for guilds in general. Him, me, anyone the fuck else. Because that brings up drooling retards to join your guild.

Blizzard let it happen, it caused a minor PR shitstorm, they took it out of general.

Yes, guilds should just acquire new members through osmosis, then only super smart people like the f13.net posters will be in guilds.. or something..

Cevik, I ran a 100-person guild in EQ without ever once actively recruiting in an open channel. EVER. I never went into East Commonlands and /shouted "Guild recruiting" or anything of the like. I saw what happened to guilds who did that, they didn't last, and had hordes of training, kill-stealing, shit-starting, drama-queening mongoloids.

I know of which I speak. If you can't recruit 20-40 people into a guild without spamming general chat channels, you shouldn't be running a guild. It isn't hard unless you are a fucking idiot, an anti-social twat, or a raging douchebag.

Remind me of what happened to that guild again?


Yes, because you are a unique and special flower, ohh so much smarter than all the other mouthbreathers on the internet.  I know I know, I hear it from ya every day.

I agree that recruiting people via /1 is a silly idea, but people do it and it's often how the game is played.  The ONLY way I've recruited for a guild is by inviting people that I know, and know well.  Remember HD was "closed for recruiting" while the other guilds tried to amass armies against us by shouting in the Shadowbane cities.  I'm fully aware of what that does to a guild..

I also know that using death coil as an opener is a sure fire way to fuck your battle.  I know that the felhunter is a much better pet to use than a succy when you have soul link, and I know how to get into a hunters dead zone and eat him alive, but I'm not for banning warlocks that fail at these things.  Sometimes gameplay styles that I would never do are just as valid (or more valid) than the things I do.  Sometimes I know better ways to do things than other people, sometimes they know better ways to do things than I do.  It has been the status quo to allow guild recruiting in /1 until now, and I suggest, instead of banning everyone who did it, we ban the people like you who just can't handle it.

Adding a guild recruitment line was a fine UI enhancement.  Banning someone because their lifestyle might make others act like retards in /1 was a stupid move.

Still together and spanning multiple games. I left a long time ago because of where I felt the guild was going.


Yes, so nice of you to notice. I'm comfortable with my snobbery.


I'd have never said anything to the person, because yes, I really do ignore most people in the game, which included turning off all the general channels. But I've more restraint than others, especially when the issue is a hot button one like homosexuality.


Yep.


Yep, it sure as fuck was. Which is what I said earlier. But it was also a lot more efficient than trying to ban the multiples of retards that could have acted like retards when given the opportunity. Ban 1 or ban 20? I'm sure the CSR weighed those numbers and made the call they thought was right. It wasn't, and it caused a minor, forgettable PR ooboo. Again, things I've already said in this thread.

Paelos's point, which started this fight, was that there were somethings he didn't want to hear about in general. I'm the same way. Just because Blizzard doesn't actually give a shit to enforce those rules, even on RP servers, doesn't mean they shouldn't be enforced. I actually look forward to a day when an MMOG can be about the MMOG and not about the hot button political issues of the day. It's called Escapism. It's one of the reasons I play Role-playing games, or at least it was when there was still a chance of having roleplaying in MMOG's. What a week that was.

No one is scarred for life for hearing that someone else is gay, and no one has said that in thread, except you cevik.

Were you always this stupidly pendantic?

Until the rules are enforced evenly, it does not really matter what any of us does or does not want to hear in General.  There was never a burning issue until someone got banned for uttering "GLBT" in a neutral manner, which while perhaps well-meaning, was a stupid decision.

If someone wants to raise a fuss over the content of General Chat now, then they have shit for timing.  Like it or not, it lumps you with the homophobes that have no problems discriminating.

Even with solid reasoning for what you want, if it is not enforced equally then in practice it is discrimination.  And let us not kid ourselves, it would never be enforced equally.

Just to summarize:

Blizzard finds a person advertising a GLBT.  They decide to ban the person for conviences sake, because it's easier to ban 1 person who is not breaking the rules rather than ban the 20 mythical people who may one day break the rules.  The inevitable shitstorm ensues (cevik's faith in the word++).  Blizzard reverses the decision (cevik's faith in the word++).  The sane people of the world rejoice.  Paelos, the bigot, decides all gays are "deviants" (cevik's faith in the world--).  Krakkrok, in accordance with his name, decides allowing gay guilds means you have to let people cheat (cevik's faith in the world -= 0xFFFFFFFF).  Haemish insists that the right thing to do is to ban the one person who is not breaking the rules because there may in some nebulous future be 20 mythical people who may one day break the rules.. even though that's exactly what Blizzard did in the first place, and it caused a shitstorm, which caused Blizzard to change their minds because they realized they were being mentally deficient (cevik's faith in Haemish = cevik's faith in Haemish (sorry, there was no where for you to sink, so you pretty much stayed the same)).

In the mean time, sarius came along and proclaimed that being "gay" is political, proving to the world that if his side supported gay rights, sarius would gladly let himself be sodomized nightly by well hung young men just to prove those dirty Democrats wrong (cevik's faith in the world += lol)..

Got it.

I hope you're using a long int there.

Wheels on the bus go round and round.

You're advocating freedom of expression. I'm advocating freedom of expression. If your freedom infringes on my freedom then I have a problem. You apparently don't have a problem infringing on my freedom because "You're right!". I, however, am not advocating infringing on your freedom. Which brings us back to "You're a hypocrite!".

Additionally, you seem to be incapable of communicating simple ideas such as this without devolving into personal attacks and seem unable to accept that people have a difference of opinion than your own. You aren't trying to constructively change peoples opinions or even find middle ground. You're trying to bash their heads in with a rock for disagreeing with you even when your own position is flawed.

This fortune cookie brought too you by Willy Wong's Chinese Fortune Company.

I must have missed something.  Could you explain which freedoms of yours are being infringed upon?

This is why you MUST NOT use the word deviant in a thread unless you're talking about Bruce.

ARg.

8 Pages.  Give it up.

So just put words into an acronym and their meaning is completely lost?  It still means what it means.

I never said I was bothered by it.  I said I type /leave 1.  End of story.  I haven't seen General chat except for the few times I forget to leave on new alts.  I'm quickly reminded to do so about 15 minutes into leveling though.

I don't think anyone should have been banned.  The guild channel is fine, but not necessary.  General sucks regardless.  Now you'll just have people advertise guilds in General and then listen to them fight with people telling them to go to the guild channel for hours.  Progress.

Actually, I said it was stupid yet more efficient. Please learn to read better. I never said it was right.

What's right and what's reality aren't really always the same thing.

I also said it was stupid to advertise for guilds in general chat, and that general chat could use an enema. In every game ever.

And finally, I never really want to hear about who someone else is fucking, or how they are fucking. That's one reason I hate furries, because they feel it their duty to tell me how they fucked a man in a kangaroo costume last night. That's none of my business. A player who I've never met, isn't my friend and isn't in my guild should not be telling me he's gay, straight, a furry or whatever, because that's none of my business and I don't want to know. If I get to know him and he mentions his boyfriend/wife or whatever that's fine, but I don't need to know the particulars of their sex life (such as if he's a furry).

None of that matters in a game, since I'm not going to be cybering any of them ever.

Yes, people should be able to talk about a Gay-friendly guild in public without retards going homo-bashing. But then, if they could do that, they wouldn't really need a GLBT-friendly guild, now would they?

READ HER FUCKING POST THIS THREAD IS OVER


General sucks
-agreed
Guild recruitment in general sucks
-agreed
Guild's spamming stupid RL recruitment adverts annoys me
-fine I understand that position

But this line right here is perfect, and sums up exactly why this thread isn't being dropped:

"If someone wants to raise a fuss over the content of General Chat now, then they have shit for timing.  Like it or not, it lumps you with the homophobes that have no problems discriminating."

Cevik, you are being a obvious fucking tool, Haemish I'm insulted if you think I dont realize he was trolling, but you were also refusing to read my entire posts, or I was failing to make sense.  You continue to do that, and it continues to bother me.  You finish up retorting to my last post with this gem:


This is right after you have finally accepted THAT THERE WAS NO FUCKING GUILD RECRUITMENT CHANNEL IN THE GODDAMN GAME AT THE TIME OF THIS WHOLE THING.

You want that to be a fucking rule?  Fine by me, but it will never be a rule.  People will still bring RL into the game because they aren't fucking RP'ers and they'll do it in general chat.  You want all the Steelers fans banned after the superbowl for spamming up general?  Not going to fucking happen.  Like Lantyssa said, a "No RL references in general non-private (say/general) channels is allowed" would NEVER EVER IN A MILLION FUCKING YEARS be enforced equally.

Yes, I'm quite aware cevik is trolling. That was obvious oh, 10 seconds after his first post.

I take exception to anyone considering me a homophobe, or even lumping me in with them. Thus, this post is 8 miles long. As for not shitting up general chat being a rule, yeah I'd love that to be a rule. It isn't even that it wouldn't be enforced equally, it just wouldn't be enforced. Doing so in any manner would take an assload of time and effort that GM's can't and probably won't do.

But I think you start to control the issue by 1) banning motherfuckers you do find breaking the rules of general chat and 2) posting their stupid, dumbass faces and names on the game MOTD's along with a transciption of their crimes. You don't have to ban 100 if one example stops 99 from repeating the mistakes of the past. Perception is reality and if the perception is that people get banned for saying stupid fucking shit in general, there will be fewer incidents. Not only that, the people who don't shit up general chat will then feel more compelled to report stupid shit in general chat because the perception will be that something is actually being done.

But again, this is also why griefers don't get banned. CS is expensive, and until it becomes an issue that hits the bottom line, no one gives a shit except the person being griefed.

Do you know how really batshit insane that sounds?* Reality and context are two aspects of this you need to grasp (can be gathered from posts you're ignoring).

*Yes, I consider Stalin a poor choice for modeling CS practices.

Yes, I reailze how bad it sounds. And yes, the cockmuffin might like the attention. If he's banned, and you actually make the ban stick by tying account into name/credit card/address combos, it won't matter anyway.

Stalin would have used a bullet. I just let them be someone else's problem.

Here's a solution for ya. Turn the fucking things off. Then leave them off. Then it's marginally harder for anyone to break your immersion in your role-playing fantasy world with their non-rp, non-orc-related chatz0r and you can continue to RP in peace.


different post:

I do notice you never made a noise about it or seemed to give a sideways flying shit about it here until teh gayz0rz used it for that purpose. How long's WoW been live and this shit's been happening now? Oh yeah, only 14-15 months. It became a burning passionate issue for you, what? 2 weeks ago?


from another different post:

Sure, but EQ1 as you well know had a very different landscape and social feel to it. To echo Braddles, community was important in EQ. You needed groups, you needed guilds once you got to a certain point to do anything. In WoW, not only can you solo to 60 without ever grouping once, the game is infested with people who'd never have touched the game if it were not for Blizzard's hand. The b.net kiddies, the Blizz fanbois that Schild so loves. So many people who've never set foot in one of these games before in their lives. The social/guild norms in WoW are so far off of EQ's that it's not funny. Getting spammed randomly constantly with wordless guild invites for any character over level 5? Shit it happened the other day to 2 of my level 1 mules in IF. Morons shouting for guild recruitment in /1 has been happening since the start, and it's still happening even with the new channel in place.

While you or I or probably most anyone here wouldn't join random_guild_041 who is spamming, the newbies to the game/genre see it and don't know any better, and with 5.5m people in the game, the lowest common denominator is pretty fucking low.

The LCD in EQ was pretty fucking low. I know because I was the one usually had to tell them nicely that they didn't fit my guild. The only difference is you'd probably get MORE applications. So long as one guild member is grouping with people not in the guild, AND there are parts of the game where groups are required, you should never have to shout in open channels about guild recruitment.

It wasn't an issue for me before this because 1) I never noticed it because I turned all general chat off after the first day, and 2) no one ever got banned for it. That still doesn't mean it wasn't there, and wasn't spamming up places. Wouldn't it be nice if the gay-friendly guild never had to worry about being gay-bashed in an MMOG? Yeah, it'd be nice in the same way that it'd be nice if I could have general chat channels on without being washed in mongoloid mind-jism.

Yep it was pretty fucking low. Here, it's even lower. The other thing to remember is social mores. In EQ, people did spam the general channels when recruiting for their guilds, but it seemed to be less prevalent. Probably because by the time that we got Nexus then PoK which gave the playerbse a nice central place (besides Thurgadin) to live, people were already used to recruiting primarily by word of mouth.

In WoW, we started with nice central places to recruit (IF/Org) and no established social mores. Now, a year+ on, and spamming chat is how it's always been and various mixed shit in general has always been this way from EQ1 at the very least and I'd hazard pretty much everything that's gone before or since. That also includes everything before you and (Paelos, and Krakhead, and so forth) ever logged into your first MMOanything.

But, you know, if you want to play games where you "could have general chat channels on without being washed in mongoloid mind-jism" then might I suggest that the MMOG genre is not the one for you. I'm not a fan of the mouth-breathers either, yet, somehow I continue to live. Life sucks like that. Get a helmet or get used to it.

Finally, to quote my old mate Paelos:

Again with the moronic pendantry.  Okay, and you might have had a point that is was more "efficient".. had Blizzard not tried EXACTLY what you say is the "more efficient" thing to do and ended up with a PR shitstorm that wormed it's way into the national media and resulted in weeks of heated debate and rapamant retardation in /1 on EVERY SERVER and on the message boards that eventually resulted in the decision being overturned.

But don't let facts get in the way of your Stupidity.  You keep on saying that being assholes is the "efficient" thing to do.

So do I. Get your own fucking helmet, mine's taken.

This thread is AWSOME. Awsome I tell you. Keep it up boys.

Anyway. The only thing I think any one should be banned for in /1 is that god damn fucking stupid ass Chuck Norris shit. ARRRGGGG. Thats gota be one of the worst internet fads ever.

I consider it my art, much like some people consider shitting on a crayon drawing of Jesus their art.


Great news!  Chuck Norris is quickly being replaced with MacGyver!

Ugh.  You just had to bring him up, didn't you?  :x

I have a new solution:  General should be off by default.  Buried through five layers of convoluted interface options to reach.  If you manage to turn it on, you can say what you want.

I don't think I would mind the Chuck Norris crap that much if they were at least somewhat original. Unfortunately I hear the same damn tired quote about him roundhouse kicking his way out of his mother's womb all the time. The worst is when Barrens chat is nice and semi-quiet and some assmonkey says some stupid shit like "Has anyone seen Chuck Norris?" Then is like those seagulls from Finding Nemo take over the keyboards: NorrisNorrisNorrisNorrisNorrisNorrisNorrisNorrisNorris...

fixed for you

I blame Conan.

[O'Brien, not the Destroyer]

Just a quick nit to pick here.

I was having lesbian kisses with female patrons during the Winter's Veil event and my character is a male in a female's body. Given there's there's a rubber ball you can throw to another player, that makes American football, gays and lesbians all part of the game.

FOAD.

You and your characters are not part of the established lore of the game as written by the devs. You can throw all the lesbian kisses you want, or toss around a pigskin, it still doesn't change the established lore. If it did, we'd be talking about an entirely different game here.

Tossing around a pigskin that looks like an American football doesn't make it American football, because there ain't no America in Azeroth.

I'll concede American football.

However, you must have misunderstood the lesbian kisses. During the Christmas event, lesbian kisses rewarded me with http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=52346 just as well as straight kisses. Complete with identical particle effects. So not only is being gay, lesbian, straight or bisexual part of game mechanics, it's part of the lore now, and probably always was.

I didn't have time to test it during Valentine's Day event, but I guess wearing cologne (http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=52983) instead of perfume (http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=52984) would have made me irresistible to the female NPCs.

It did.

Since all of Darnassus is guarded by female Sentinals, Iron Forge by male dwarves, and there are only a few female guards in Stormwind, it was required to do the full event.

So in other words, the lore doesn't give two fucks about whether you are straight or gay. Gotcha.

Explain to me again how it then helps establish the lore to talk about homosexuality? Oh it doesn't, because the lore makes no differentiation and doesn't care what persuasion you are and neither do I.

Pretty much.

In regards to Lore, I think there is no intention of implying anything one way or another.  Blizzard would simply prefer it never be an issue.  (Ideally I agree, but since things do not work that way, we get the contents of this thread.)

In Darnassus they cannot really change the lack of male guards because the Sentinals are the women left to defend their territory when the druids took a nap.  In the other cities they probably were not going to bother, if they even considered, changing NPCs that have been in place since the game launched for a two week period.

The Valentine's event was about exchanging treats (and stopping a mad alchemist).  We did that in grade school without much care for who gave whom a bit of candy.  The only thing it promoted was having a bit of fun.

I assure you that in grade school (much like now in your office), all the guys were secretly hoping two girls would kiss.  A lot. 

Perferably nude. 

Or in skin tight leather.

I still hope for that. Today even.

Preferably with video cameras.

The parts in parens are important too..

So you are promoting lesbianism now?  I thought you didn't want to see such things. :-P

...

And y'all really thought that way in third grade?

Yes.

EDIT:

He never once claimed to be an equal opportunity bigot.  He only cares about the Brokeback Mountain guys.  Chicks kissing is a totally different thing.  It's wholesome..

I see.  Well there are plenty of women that think two men kissing (http://www.yaoicon.com/) is wholesome, too! :evil:

Just for the record, in case you've forgotten, I've taken the stance that "People should screw who they want to screw, and they should not screw who they don't want to screw, and they should be damn proud of it" throughout this thread..

If a chick digs two guys kissing, and the guys enjoy the kissin'.. well then more power too all of them!

I know you do, Cevik, and I appreciate your stance.  (Is capitalizing your name okay, or does that fall under the not being able to spell it clause?)  You're just the one providing the dialog I can have some fun with.

It's really not meant to be, I've grown out of being annoyed by that a long time ago (mainly because 99% of mmogs do not let me have a lower case name)..

Which indirectly makes me think of Sparta.
Only, you know, with female elves who dance like Alizée instead of sweaty Greek men.

I've seen a lot of retarded arguments on this board, but somehow the debate about whether female NPCs kissing each other due to the Valentine event means homosexuality is in WoW lore wins Teh Stupid Prize by a healthy distance.

Yeah, but you started most of those retarded arguments on the boards, you muggins.

It isn't a little insinuation in some obscure quest text, it's an integral part of game mechanics. What is there to debate? Besides of whether it's OK to discuss sexual orientations and not football in general chat, given that the former are in game and the latter isn't.

I've never heard two, one or really any NPC's in quest text discuss their need to have sweaty man-sex with their male cowboy friend. Hell, I've not really heard much that would indicate there's even heterosexual reproduction, and the only children I remember seeing are human. I guess all the other races reproduce asexually.

Two women kissing is sexy. Two men kissing is acceptable, but it isn't something I'll go out of my way to see. Matter of fact, it's something I really would rather not see. YOUR TASTE MAY VARY.

That said, you don't see me yelling in general chat that the wimmenz should get busy, nor do you see me telling the fairies to keep it in their pants. I don't want to know who you fancy in general chat, no matter who you are. Keep it zipped, keep it in tells, keep it away from the general hustle and bustle of stupid, so that I can more effectively ignore the discussion about whether protection specs generate more efficient rage-to-damage calculations.

There is an orphanage in Org full of orc children.


Okay Mr. Pendantic.  Not one single person in this entire thread has even remotely indicated that the overblown hyperbole (the EXACT same thing you keep chastiing me for doing to your posts) you are proposing is acceptable.

We've simply said, saying GLBT Friendly doesn't hurt you in any way.  It doesn't even remotely let you know who the person is sleeping with.  In fact, the Guild Leader of one of the guilds in the articles is straight, so even thinking that you can infer who the person is sleeping with by them saying "GLBT Friendly" is absurd. 

I never said that saying there was a GLBT-friendly guild in general would hurt me. I said recruiting in general chat pisses me off, AND that recruiting in general chat for a GLBT-friendly guild was likely to cause a shitstorm of stupid homophobia in general chat, therby further poisoning an already odorous well of stupid.

It just so happened the homophobia was from Blizzard instead of the general retards of the WoW population. Yay Blizzard. Guild recruitment channel created, problem solved. Or just, you know, not mentioning what type of guild you were recruiting for in general, using private tells to really expound on it, and moving the fuck on with your life instead of crying like a wounded drama queen about how your special, unique gaylight was being hidden under a bushel. When it really wasn't.

I don't care who or what anyone fucks (within legal limits... unless you are a furry, then I hate you with the white-hot passion of the sun). I just also don't really care to fucking hear about it. EVER. ANYWHERE. Unless I ask for it.

Or pay for it.

And saying "in our guild, you can't say the words 'fag' or 'queer'" doesn't in any way let you know who anyone is fucking.

That's hardly all that is implied by saying "GLBT-friendly guild."

No, it's really not.

There are also a couple of orc children scattered through the Barren's farms.  One kid and his mother have a real sad dialog...  In Ashenvale there is a sick night elf child as part of a quest line.  I am not sure how one could tell a gnome child from an adult.  I am sure dwarves just pop out of a rock.

There is the male Tauren /silly, which is perhaps a little questionable in taste.  Several of the other jokes poke fun at stereotypes though, so I cannot say I have been personally offended.

Not that these are in-your-face examples.

Yes, it really is.

No, it's really not.

It's nice to see the entirety of this thread summarized so succinctly.

Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender.

Fag and Queer don't even scratch the surface. Point to Haemish.

Yeah..

That was his point..

Suuuuuuuuurrrrrreee...

Transgender tells you nothing about that person's sexual orientation. :-P

The other three still do not tell you who they are sleeping with since that may very well be no one.

Other than they don't like their own.

You snotty-nosed heap of parrot droppings!

Oops, sorry, wrong thread.  I was looking for Abuse.

Perhaps I take things too literally, but I view the terms gay and lesbian the same way Haemish does.  When somebody mentions those terms to me I take them quite literally meaning:

Gay:  (Usually male) Men that have or would like to have sex with other men.
Lesbian: Women that have or would like to have sex with other women.
Straight (for comparison): People that have or would like to have sex with the opposite sex.

In either case it has everything to do with their sexual activities.  Even when those terms are used as describing Gay friendly, I still attach those definitions so now I hear:

"I am tolerant of men that have sex with other men."

If the complaint is that the way these people advertised their guild was with strictly sexual descriptions, I would have to agree.  Those terms are sexual in nature.  If people are using them as some new asexual term to describe partnership preference or something, I'm out of the loop.  I suggest they find some new words.

Before I get flamed on this, I will restate I could care less about banning anyone for this.  I don't think it was the right step and they got called on it.  However, my stance is that it would have been better to focus on the tolerance part rather than go into specifics about being gay or lesbian friendly because I do feel that leads many towards a conclusion that may not have been meant.

That is exactly what the term Gay Friendly means.

I am Gay Friendly.

Now tell me the gender of the person I am sleeping with.

You can't, because THE ONLY THING THAT IS IMPLIED BY GLBT FRIENDLY IS THAT THE THE GUILD IS TOLERANT OF THOSE PEOPLE.

Are we taking this one to 70 pages as well?

I hear that same-gender sexual acts are performed in a "twitch" style of gameplay.



Schild thinks this is a good thing (tm) and that we should all try it.

This in turn will bring down civilization as we know it.

You can scream all you want, but gay means gay and that is the focus of your statement.  You wanting people to think like you is great and all, but...  Why single out GLBT?  Why specifically state that?  Are they not tolerant of Asians?  Of Mexicans?  When they specifically state GLBT it says to me, "We have a special place in our hearts for these folks so that is what we are about."  I don't know if that is true or not, but that is what it says to me without looking into the guild charters and webpages.  It is a soundbite and I treat it as such by jumping to wild guesses and opinions.

I'm just telling you what my knee jerk thought in my head is to statements like GLBT friendly are, not what my actual response is.  My response is "/leave 1."  I'll state that ever so popular, "I have lots of friends and acquaintances that are gay."  When we are around them, they talk about being gay.  They let you know with every other phrase that they are gay, or that person over there is gay, that they plan to go to the gay bar later, etc.  Great.  Super.  Now, my instant reaction to hearing GLBT friendly is that the chat in that guild will be filled with talk about gay activities.  I am probably way off base, but that is my initial thought.  My initial thought is not going to change no matter how many capitalized words you through my way.

That's the interesting thing about initial thoughts.  They are often wrong.

What does GLBT Friendly mean when someone says it to me?

It means that that's probably going to be a guild full of people who are gay, bi, lesbian or transgender (or more transgender than not actually being able to know the gender of anyone you are playing with online, like you know, everyone esle). It sounds to me like a guild saying "Here we are my gay brothers and sisters, a place where gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people can be themselves and no one will mind."

It doesn't mean everyone is GLBT, but it does suggest to me there will be a higher proportion of OVERT GLBT's in the guild than in a regular guild. It suggests to me that the very identity of the guild is about being GLBT. Which is fine, all well and good, but would turn me off immediately, not because I have anything against any of those segments of people, but because I don't really care about the sexual preference of my guild members. I don't want to know, just like I don't want to know what most of you motherfuckers look like in real life. I just don't fucking want to know. Just like I never wanted to know about Bruce's furry luv, or Redfox's gay furry luv. It's stuff not relevant to the game.

If you are going to try and tell me that saying "I'm a gay man" is saying nothing about someone's sexual preferences, then you truly have turned Gay into a political identity. That's a very bad thing.

I'm certainly not saying anything like that at all.  I'm saying that saying "GLBT Friendly" is NOT the same as saying "I'm a gay man"..

You sure don't stick to that pendantry you've been preaching the last few pages.  Interesting double standard.

GLBT friendly, as I said, implies a home for gay men, bisexuals, transgenders and lesbian women, and anyone who doesn't find that too icky. It most certainly does imply that somewhere in there will be a higher proportion of gay men than straight men. Which in essence makes the guild a "gay guild" because that's what they advertise as.

If the sexual preference part of the "friendly" wasn't the important bit, it wouldn't be in there. Otherwise, you'd just say a "tolerance" guild, or one that doesn't accept people who discriminate or some such. Maybe Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition guild.

Seriously, what would you expect if you heard an "African-American friendly" guild? Maybe you wouldn't, but I would expect that the majority would be African-Americans, or at least playing African-Americans on the Internet.

Contradict yourself much?

EDIT:  If you can't even decide what you're trying to say, why are you posting?  "Being in a GLBT Friendly guild implies there will be some gay people and some non-gay people, therefore it's obviously an all gay guild".. whatever.. bigot.

No, it implies that it will be a mostly gay guild, and that most often, the subject of being gay and gay talk and all such things gay will be important. Whether that is the case or not, when you make your sexual identity the main focus of your guild, how can you be surprised if people not in your guild think you are going to be heavily focused on that sexual identity?

BTW, I wouldn't join an African-American friendly guild either, not because I am some kind of racist bigot (which you apprently think I am), but because I'm not African-American. The same way I wouldn't join a church that was 'Gay-friendly' or a gaming group that was 'gay-friendly.' Because really, all it tells me is that the group's hot button issue is caught up protecting gay people, and I'd rather focus on gaming or the religion instead of on things that piss off gay people, like intolerance to gay people.

Wait just a minute, you've lost your famous pendantry and are now trying to change the argument YET AGAIN.

I never said I wanted to you join the guild.  I certainly never intended to join the guild (hey, it's not my thing).  The argument has never been that you should have to join the guild.  The argument has been that the guild should be allowed to exist and advertise because it doesn't harm anyone for them to do so.  Only interested parties should join the guild, if the argument was about forcing people to join the guild it would be a different argument altogether (and I'd be on a different side). 

Now who is changing the argument? I have never said the guild shouldn't be ALLOWED to exist. And I only said they shouldn't be allowed to advertise in general, public chat channels, because I don't think anyone should be allowed to recruit for guilds in general chat, but especially guilds whose main identity seems to be in hot button issues that will bait the retards. They can advertise in the recruitment channel (now that it exists) all they want, it isn't a public chat channel. They can advertise in any other non-intrusive ways they want. Hell, I think it'd be great if they did events on the server as a non-invasive recruiting tool, like arena tourneys or some such. But the minute they start in with the GLBT, or Hardcore Raiding, or African-American-friendly thing in general public chat channels, they have gone too far, IMO.

I brought up joining only because I'm saying I wouldn't be a part of them because of how they establish their identity, along the lines of sexual preference and tolerance for such. I never said anyone is forcing me to join.

You keep wanting to call me a bigot and say that I'm saying things I'm most certainly not. I may not rite gud sometimes, or clearly, but I most certainly haven't said the things you keep trying to pin on me. I see it's boring at work for you again, if you seem to want to troll this thread to 70.

No one.

In my personal case, life has proved that initial thought right.  People that publicly state to me they are gay friendly subsequently have a lot of gay friends around them a lot of the time and their conversations are many times about gay activities.  I never said I thought gay friendly = gay.  I said it hints to you what the atmosphere around that person is like most of the time.  It does for me anyway.  I think Haemish is saying the same thing.

If this guild is completely different than that, great.  If they are just like I stated, great.  I just stated what my own experiences have concluded in my own mind.  Yours obviously are different.

I only stated my own personal thoughts because I think that is what many people think of when guilds like this advertise like they did.  OMG, they sit around in channel talking about gay stuff.  If that wasn't their intent, they shouldn't have made that the main focus of their soundbite.  Because there isn't a lot of detail in a shout over the general chat, we are forced to come to some conclusions quickly.

You hint that I'm wrong about this guild.  Can you prove it?  They don't talk about about gay issues in guild chat?  A majority of them are not GLBT?  If they do and they are, fantastic.  It would just prove that my intial thought generated by their general chat statement was right.  I don't care.  However, that is where the uproar was generated, in my opinion.

No, I'm saying that it doesn't matter if you are wrong or right about the guild because you won't be joining it.  All we are saying is that the guild should be allowed to exist and it should be allowed to advertise itself just like every other guild in the game.  If the method for advertising is changed, they should be required to follow those rules (i.e. when the new channels were made they should be forced to advertise in the new channels).  They should not be treated different than any other guild in the game.

BTW:  Does your circumstancial evidence support the fact that all black people eat watermelons?

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

The all Gay people only talk about Gay things and nothing else myth was confirmed by him, I've always wondered about the All Black People Eat Watermelons myth.  I thought since he was the expert on finding out wether prejuidices are true or not, that he could lend a helping hand.

EDIT:  Maybe a study can be conducted.  Dren knows a few gay people who talk about gay things.. perhaps if he knows a few black people and has seen more than 50% of them eat a watermelon at some point it will confirm the watermelon myth.  If that won't work, maybe he can invite all the black people he knows over and put a sign in front of his house that says "free watermelon" and see how many of them take him up?

STOP

I feel confident in saying, "Gay people talk about gay things sometimes."

Point to me where I said that is ALL they talk about.  Now, I know you are trolling.  :roll:

I remember seeing someone say this earlier.  Oh yeah! me.

Uhh, I'm trolling?


So when are you goin to perform my watermelon study?

And it's still wrong.  Congrats!

I dont think I can stop this one, even with song lyrics, perhaps song lyrics in another language...

Yes, cevik, you are trolling. I think this thread can die a good, stupid death now.

You took that out of context.  Nice.  The "they" I was talking about were my friends.  Read it again.  I was not referencing ALL gay people.  I did say the chat would be "filled" with gay talk.  I'll stand by that.  Gay people will talk about gay issues.  They'll talk about them a lot.

I can't believe you don't understand that.  Thus, I called you a troll.

If you want to make a comparison to the African Americans, fine.  I would bet that black people talk about black topics alot.  I bet their days are full of black topics.  I'm not sure where watermelons came from.

"So these guys formed a guild in World of Warcraft to talk about how much they like a penis in their butthole?"
"Dude, that's twisted.  I'm going to go witness to them."
"Uh, I don't think that's a wise idea..."
"DAMN IT, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE!  THEY MUST BREAK FREE OF THEIR SORDID LIFESTYLE!"
"What the hell are you planning say to them, exactly?"
"That they should try EQ2, or DAoC, or something."
"..."
"Why, what did you think I was going to say?"

/rimshot

I perfectly understood it.  You are saying "I judge all gay people based on my limited experience with a few gay 'friends' I have."  I'm asking if you limit it to gay people or do you pre-judge everyone?

Sometimes, you are a WindupNutsack, and sometimes you are fucking funny.

Paul Sams, Blizzard CEO

Ok, last one.  After this, you can just imagine me shaking my fists Colonel Klink style from Hogan's heros if you bait me again.

I did not say I judge them.  I did not say anything other than that the gay people I know talk about gay issues a lot.  My initial reaction when people say they have a gay friendly guild is that there will be a lot of talk about gay issues.  That has nothing to do with judging them.  I didn't say that was wrong or right.  I said that is what I would expect IF I joined their guild, so my reaction was to ignore it.  Is ignoring it judging them?  You said yourself you aren't interested.  Did you judge them?

Are you suggesting that because I judged that they talk about issues relevant to their own sexual preferences, I must judge them about everything else too?  Damn, there is some logic for you.  You made that jump, not me.

Yes you did, then you said it again, immedaitely after this sentence.  I'll quote it for you here:


This is the very act of judging. 


No.  Your prejudice is that because a few gay people you know talk about being gay in "every other sentence" that all gay people everywhere will be talking about being gay in every other sentence.


No, in fact I said there was no way any of could know what is happening in /g on their screens.  I didn't judge them at all, I've never been in the guild, I haven't slightest CLUE what they talk about, nor do I care.

Are they talking about being gay in every other sentence?  Perhaps, I don't know, I've never spoken to anyone in the guild.

Are they talking about football in every other sentence?  Perhaps, I don't know, I've never spoken to anyone in the guild.

Are they talking about what's on TV every other sentence?   Perhaps, I don't know, I've never spoken to anyone in the guild.

I'm reserving my judgement until I get into the guild and see what they talk about.  Since I already have a guild that suits my needs, I'm not really shoping for a new guild on a different server right now, so it will probably be quite some time before I ever judge these individuals.. 

What's gay talk?

Let's see, recent hot throbbing gay topics included why we have 30 level 60s and still can't get a good raid together (conclusion: most of them are players with multiple 60s). Whether or not I was high enough for an instance (no). That someone's husband has a firm date to come back from deployment (yay). Someone wouldn't be around because they were going to visit their parents for the weekend (have a good time). That someone finished their taxes and taxes suck. (all agreed) And whether anyone needed the pattern for +5 skinning gloves (yes mailed).

If you think guildchat is all the guys talking about musicals and all the women talking about softball I'm afraid you'd be disappointed. (I prefer women's soccer.) And if you think it's about sex, then you'd really be disappointed.

Lies.  LIES I tell you!

(It sounds better if you do it with a Zim voice in your head.)

I NEED TACOS?

Mmmm.... tacos

I guess I won't be joining your guild then. I need hot steamy musical talk, damnit!

What the fuck does this have to do with them being able to advertise their guild in (formerly) general chat, and not the guild recruitment channel. Quit while you're behind.

irrelevent. HAEMISH  has other plans for general chat. And HIS  will will not be denied. Apparently.

..not that he vocally gave a fuck before.

Not to be pendantic, but this is a pendant: (http://www.gold-jewellery-box.co.uk/images/medium/gp237t.jpg)

And this is a pedant: (http://www.ac-versailles.fr/etabliss/plapie/Itp28/Pedant.JPG)

Also, boys have a penis and girls have a vagina.  Carry on.

I think he misses his gulag.

It was so comfy.   :cry:

The second you tried to uninvite Signe you should have known it was doomed.

What?  Something on-topic? I'm sorry I've already put forth arguments that I feel are still completely valid 6 pages ago, nobody wanted to actually read them then, same as it ever was.

Are any of you guys tagged with Haemish?

Does he fly into a furious rage whenever something (anything) from the real world pops up in the general chat channels?

jus' askin' is all..

My friend Mark said that he saw Haemish totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.

You tell 'em Steve-Dave!

I think this thread is just an excuse to bump some post counts.


Also, on a GLBT-friendly guild - Who The Fuck Cares. What is the point? Are all the other guilds too bigot-y and straight? I really don't see why anyone's sexuality has to enter into an MMO.

You might have had an answer to that last question(s) if you actually read any bit of the thread.   I'd answer but it'd be about the 8th time this thread's made orbit.

Good job. I did read a lot of the thread. I just find the whole idea of a GLBT guild, or an Asian, or African guild for that matter, to be unnecessary.

See, this is what happens when a game has 6m+ users - the amount of stupid reaches critical mass, and you get nonsense like this.

Have you actually been in a raiding guild or any sizeable guild? The evidence is present every time you log in.  Everytime you step foot in Org. Anytime you hear gen chat. It's on vent, in /raid, and /guild.  The reasons are prevalent.  Just becuase you choose to dismiss them as trivial, doesn't mean they aren't there and matter to someone else.

Quit being so fucking obtuse.

Did he Hadouken?



Post counts are pretty irrelevent after a certain point, excepting for e-peen waving. On the other hand, this thread has been a circular argument/trollfest/wank for sometime now. All the good or relevent arguments were made pages ago.

OMG NOOB. HADOKEN IS THE FIREBALL. SHORYUKEN IS THE UPPERCUT. U GET 4 DEMERITS.

Edit: Also you spelled "hadoken" wrong.

Or maybe I don't know what you are talking about. I'm not in a guild, and I don't use general chat. I can assume stupidity abounds in both channels. I'm in Org plenty, and I don't see anything offensive, just general stupidity. So to me, the reasons are Not prevalent, and I'm certainly not going to take your word for it (not that you really presented anything at all), because frankly, I don't care. The idea that someone would need to form a guild based on something outside of the game besides geography/playtime just seems unneeded.

Quit being such a fucking prick.

I suspect these two things are related.

I know for a fact that many of you would prefer to be in a guild with only prepubescent Asian girls, but I try not to let that cloud my elitist judging of your other foul characteristics.  Some of you have your own unique flavour that makes you interesting to me outside of games.  Others just emit an odour which I try hard to avoid anyplace other than games.  Smelly or tasty, I still enjoy being in a guild and playing games with most of you lot.  Even Strazos!

(Add Strazos to the dirty word parser spell checker, please)

Haha, this thread is still going. What are you people arguing about, again?

I think it has become something about Strazos and his female avatars.

So is it a coincidence that the main characters are named "Ryu" and "Ken", when they both shout SHO-RYU-KEN? Or just an unfunny pun?

I always wondered about that.

Dunno about this thread, but I found a WoW link to post. Couldn't find it posted elsewhere, so this will have to do.

http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3635

This man is quite possibly some sort of minor god.

Dude, you play a Night Elf Druid.


Pretty sure this trumps the time a rogue in EQ2  stealthed into someone's house and found him cybering, then posted it.

But he's got a huge cock.

Oh, are you compensating now?

If we're talking about Ceciliantas, then the cybering wasn't really the funny part.  The funny part was his publicly melting down on the forum and threatening to sue the internets, followed by the revelation that his cyber-sweety was actually a man who'd been dispatched on just that mission specifically to humiliate the little asshat.

The funniest story, however, is when he claimed not to be the same Cecillantas that this had happened to before in another game, but someone who admired the name.  He is the ONLY person on an MMO with whom I would flirt... with the cameras rolling, of course.

Ryu is a popular Japanese name and Ken is a popular Asian-American name.

Ryu also means dragon (among other things) and Ken means attack or fist. (Or something like that) Shoryuken literally is "rising dragon attack" and hadoken is literally "energy wave attack" or something like that.

So while I'm sure they did it on purpose it's not just a random pun or something like that.

[/snicker]

(http://members.ii.net/~svandore/wow/abraham~kaloes8.gif)

[edit] too right schild, blame 4:20am starts and bad copy/pasting

Hotlinking to SA is pretty stupid.

Yah I was aware that they're real names, I didn't know that Shoryuken and Hadouken were literally phrases. Though then again Chun Li's use of "spinning bird kick" should have been an obvious clue.

The looks thing was pretty entertaining.. cant wait for part two...