Gaymers force Blizzard into submission

[cevik]

You are the one who says that suddenly I'm gassing Jews and restricting the rights of homosexuals. That's hyperbolic and doesn't help the discussion.

No, it's what you are doing, it's in no way hyperbolic.  You do not exist in a vacuum, your actions are part of the larger actions on a whole that ARE doing those very things in this country.  Just because YOU think it's okay for YOU to tell them to shut up and stop being themselves, doesn't ACTUALLY make it okay..

[Ironwood]

I no longer know what this has to do with Shadowbane.

[sarius]

No, I was thinking of baiting the same trap that I see so many 'ual'/'ism' personalities desire in order to fulfill their place in the universe apparently.  Call me odd-out, but I fail to see if someone believes that it is typical to have homosexuals in existence how they then believe that the need for overt drama based upon a person's sexuality is justified.

Wait just a minute, you are the one causing the overt drama.  We are saying "let them say they are gay, it doesn't hurt anything" you are saying "OMGZ WTF NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IT PUSHES THEIR SEXUALITY IN OUR FACE!! WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH STOP BEING SO DRAMATIC!!!!"

None of us are saying wether or not we believe homosexuality is normal, typical, abnormal, peachy keen or any other adjective.  None of us are being dramatic.  We are saying "let the person say 'I am gay' and stop freaking out you closet homo"..

You can't go around throwing big dramatic fits then demanding everyone else stop being so dramatic all the time..

Ah Mondays.

That a load of horseshit.  The moment you make an organization which labels itself based upon a sexual identity the collective 'you' that participates in that group is creating the stage for being an advocacy political group.  Now, refreshing everyone's memory, this is within a video game, not a college, or PAC association, or anywhere else that any plausible denial of rights would ever come into effect.  I've played MMOGs with thousands of people without once having the need or desire to give a shit about their sexuality.  I have no tags up saying anything of the type, and somehow because I'd rather play a game in a virtual world (and the owners or said game, too, I might add) without ever knowing someone's sexuality I'm the Neanderthal.

Seriously, Sarius, fuck you.

This thread was probably one of the better things that ever happened on the internet, people learned, forgave, and dropped their stupid semantic laden arguments.

Learned what?  That provincial guilt can beat anyone into submission?  No thanks, spin on your own.  Every bit of this crap hurts homosexual advocacy because some assholes think that their 'right' to drama is excused by the fact that they advocate gay atmospheres in a video game.  The majority of gay people I know neither desire RuPaul for a lifestyle nor banner.  My immediate circle of friends has a gay family with children who play WoW.  I reflected this thread with one of them over the weekend and she could not imagine wanting someone recruiting her 13 year old into a 'gay' guild, or any MMOG activity based upon sexuality.

So the best solution is for them to shut-up and stay in the closet, obviously.  Dealing with the idiots is too much work, they bring so much to the game after all, so it is better if we just keep the gays gagged.

Sorry, but for some reason that logic does not sit well with me.

More bullshit laden guilt.  I've not advocated just one group to stay in the closet.  I'm reflecting that most responsible people I know don't feel the desire to broadcast their personal sexuality in video games.  Really doesn't matter what orientation said people might be.  I'd be just as pissed off at heterosexuals, monkey jumpers, or centaurs doing the same thing.

[Mesozoic]

I'm sorry, we don't hire dirty centaurs here.

[cevik]

The moment you make an organization which labels itself based upon a sexual identity the collective 'you' that participates in that group is creating the stage for being an advocacy political group. 

That is complete and total horseshit.  Just because YOU decided to take SOMEONE ELSES sexual identiy and make politics out of it, doesn't mean their sexual idenity is inherently political.

[sarius]

The moment you make an organization which labels itself based upon a sexual identity the collective 'you' that participates in that group is creating the stage for being an advocacy political group. 

That is complete and total horseshit.  Just because YOU decided to take SOMEONE ELSES sexual identiy and make politics out of it, doesn't mean their sexual idenity is inherently political.

Hmm, let's see the article where the centaurs got management of Blizzard to conduct sensitivity training....?  Right.

[cevik]

Hmm, let's see the article where the centaurs got management of Blizzard to conduct sensitivity training....?  Right.

Not treating people like second class citizens because if their sexual identity is NOT politics.  You have a very fucked up sense of politics.

EDIT:  People came into the game and acted like.. people.. they discussed what they had in common and tried to group with people who had similar interests.  Blizzard banned them.  They demanded a retraction and won.  None of that is politics.  YOU are the one who has decided to make this political..

[sarius]

Hmm, let's see the article where the centaurs got management of Blizzard to conduct sensitivity training....?  Right.

Not treating people like second class citizens because if their sexual identity is NOT politics.  You have a very fucked up sense of politics.

EDIT:  People came into the game and acted like.. people.. they discussed what they had in common and tried to group with people who had similar interests.  Blizzard banned them.  They demanded a retraction and won.  None of that is politics.  YOU are the one who has decided to make this political..

People came into the game recruiting groups along sexual associations -- something expressly forbidden in the EULA according to the press release I saw.  If you don't recognize the activity as political nothing I say is going to change your mind.  But, it is the very apex of political advocacy to achieve what you've described.

[cevik]

People came into the game recruiting groups along sexual associations -- something expressly forbidden in the EULA according to the press release I saw.  If you don't recognize the activity as political nothing I say is going to change your mind.  But, it is the very apex of political advocacy to achieve what you've described.

It absolutely is not.  These are people being people.  They are PEOPLE being PEOPLE.  They are not politically advocating ANYTHING at all.  They are just trying to hang out in a game with like minded people.

My guild aims to recruit 22-30 year old mature gamers for the most part.  Mainly because that's what we are and that's what we want to deal with in our everyday game.  Is that the very apex of politcal advocacy?  No.  It's just us trying to find some people that we like hanging out with.  The GLBT Friendly guild IS THE EXACT SAME THING.  Just a group of people hanging out recruiting other people they can deal with on a daily basis.  The only difference between my guild and theirs is that YOU, a completely unrelated third party, have decided that the GLBT friendly guild is somehow political because YOU have decided that GLBT should be in politics.  That's the ONLY difference.

[El Gallo]

People came into the game recruiting groups along sexual associations -- something expressly forbidden in the EULA according to the press release I saw.  If you don't recognize the activity as political nothing I say is going to change your mind.  But, it is the very apex of political advocacy to achieve what you've described.

I haven't read this entire thread, but my understanding is that the guild was not gay-only, it was "only for people who don't act like raging fucktards towards gays" which is pretty different, and not banned by the EULA.

[sarius]

People came into the game recruiting groups along sexual associations -- something expressly forbidden in the EULA according to the press release I saw.  If you don't recognize the activity as political nothing I say is going to change your mind.  But, it is the very apex of political advocacy to achieve what you've described.

I haven't read this entire thread, but my understanding is that the guild was not gay-only, it was "only for people who don't act like raging fucktards towards gays" which is pretty different, and not banned by the EULA.

My understanding is different.  Having said that, exactly when does someone become identified as a gay video game toon?  There's no label on any WoW toon I've ever seen like that.

[HaemishM]

So the best solution is for them to shut-up and stay in the closet, obviously.  Dealing with the idiots is too much work, they bring so much to the game after all, so it is better if we just keep the gays gagged.

Sorry, but for some reason that logic does not sit well with me.

Nobody told them to stay in the goddamn closet. They were just told not to drive their Gay Pride Parade complete with assless pants down Homophobe Drive without a goddamn parade license and a police escort. Or, you know, just advertise that they had a guild and when someone contacts them privately, THEN tell the recruit that they were GLBT-friendly as the first thing.

Sure, you could just let them advertise in public channels. You could then search out all the fucktards (and they might be legion) who start some shit and ban all of them. That'd be great. Meanwhile your CS queue of SHIT THAT MATTERS TO THE GAME BESIDES ENJOYING BEING ASSFUCKED BY A SWEATY MAN OR CHANGING YOUR GENDER fills up.

Some people like to play a game to get away from the bullshit they have to listen to in real life. That bullshit can include how everyone needs to be tolerant of gay people and that "we're here and we're queer!" It can also include bullshit like "GOD HATES GAYS" and "AIDS was a punishment from God on gay people." Some people really don't want to hear that shit in a game they are using as a modest escape from reality. You know, entertainment and all. I respect that sentiment. That sentiment is one of the reasons I turn off general chat channels in every game I go into because I don't want to hear any of it. It's why entire RP servers get made. It has nothing to do with closeting gays, so much as it does keeping the game from not being an escape.

Guildchat is entirely different. Once you are in guilds, you have chosen to be there so talking about RL isn't a big deal. You asked to be there. You don't get that choice with general chat, it's just thrust upon you.

Personally, I wish we could put the STUPID people in the closet. But they are much harder to find than gays, or gay-bashers. Or Jew-gassing Nazis.

[SnakeCharmer]

People came into the game recruiting groups along sexual associations -- something expressly forbidden in the EULA according to the press release I saw.  If you don't recognize the activity as political nothing I say is going to change your mind.  But, it is the very apex of political advocacy to achieve what you've described.

It absolutely is not.  These are people being people.  They are PEOPLE being PEOPLE.  They are not politically advocating ANYTHING at all.  They are just trying to hang out in a game with like minded people.

Would you be so supportive of someone recruiting for a guild based on the KKK?

[Ironwood]

Oh please.  How long before we're back to gassing Jews ?

[HaemishM]

I didn't know we'd stopped gassing Jews.

Let's put it another way. How supportive would you be of NAMBLA guilds advertising in open chat? Ganga guilds? Gun law guilds? Abortion guilds?

[bhodi]

Let's put it another way. How supportive would you be of NAMBLA guilds advertising in open chat? Ganga guilds? Gun law guilds? Abortion guilds?

OK, but only on a pvp server. And only if they're the opposing faction. :)

I can't believe this lasted 6 pages.. get a grip. Guilds are community creators, people like to commune with like souls. Some people are bigots. Thus, you can (will) have bigot guilds. That's life, that's humanity. They are free to share their opinion, it's a free country. THIS is only a game. Remember that. As long as it doesn't infringe on the majority of people's playing, it shouldn't be banned. Remember, they are paying customers, too.

I have no problem with blizzard's call, I have no issues with a GBL friendly guild, and I don't care about a neo-nazi friendly guild or one called mexican jew lizards, "OMG FOR THE CHILDREN" guilds or not.

[Mesozoic]

Let's put it another way. How supportive would you be of NAMBLA guilds advertising in open chat? Ganga guilds? Gun law guilds? Abortion guilds?

NAMBLA "activities" are illegal.  "Gangstas," pro/anti gun law advocates and pro-choice / -life types are not socailly disadvantaged to the extent that they NEED their own guild, as evidenced by the fact that there are no such guilds.  (Or, if some such thing exists somewhere, then take as evidence the fact that there is no 6-page thread on the topic of its existence.)

If you don't like the idea of GBLT-friendly types feeling the need for their own guild, work towards a world where they don't feel like they need one.  Otherwise, if you can't change the fact that they are looked down upon in general society, you can't then complain that they seek their own kind for friendship.

[Azazel]

The argument... she makes the circle...


!

[HaemishM]

If you don't like the idea of GBLT-friendly types feeling the need for their own guild, work towards a world where they don't feel like they need one.  Otherwise, if you can't change the fact that they are looked down upon in general society, you can't then complain that they seek their own kind for friendship.

I didn't. I never said they shouldn't have their own guild, or that the formation of a guild was bad. I didn't even say that recruiting for their guild was bad, just the method in which they chose to do it. It's a method that insures eventually there will be needless fucking drama started. Drama that has nothing to do with the game or the world. I see no lore in WoW that says homosexuals, lesbians or transgenered folk are persecuted or that they even exist (or don't) in the world of Azeroth. So how exactly is advertising for a GLBT-friendly guild helping serve the lore? Oh wait, IT ISN'T. Just like yelling about the Steelers winning the Super Bowl in general chat isn't serving the lore. I'd love for people that do that to be banned too. I suppose that means I'm for the gassing of football fans or maybe just Steelers' fans.

Reading comprehension is fucking hard in this thread.

[Ironwood]

I'm up for gassing football fans.

Really.

[El Gallo]

SUPER BOWL!!! ONE FOR THE THUMB BABY!!!

To bring this back on topic, I'm gay for Hines Ward.

[cevik]

How supportive would you be of NAMBLA guilds advertising in open chat?

If they are advertising a "NAMBLA friendly" guild then I see no problem with it.  If they are using the game to perform illegal activities they should be investigated and put in jail.  Basically I feel the same way about the GLBT friendly guild, if they are just saying "GLBT friendly" I think it's perfectly acceptable, if they are using /1 to have ghey cyber sexx0rz they need to be banned.  There is a pretty clear line between lewd public conduct and advertising that you are friendly to a group of people.

Ganga guilds?

If you mean "gansta" guilds then I've never seen a MMOG with PvP enabled that DIDN'T have this.  Never, not once.  You never saw me try to get SiN banned from Shadowbane because they were a bunch of wannabe gansta's did ya?  If you mean a guild using /g to assist in performing illegal activities, I covered that above.  Last I read, being gay wasn't quite illegal yet (though I'll give you credit, you are working towards it very effeciently)..

(edit: Anti-)Gun law guilds? (edit: Anti-Choice) Abortion guilds?

I care why?  I thought I read a big writeup on Christian guilds in WoW and who WONDERFULL (TM) it was?  I have no problem with a "Republican Friendly" guild if that's what you mean.  I was in a "Democrat Friendly" guild for quite some time.. We would gladly have /gkicked anyone who told us we couldn't be liberals in /g, I have no problem with someone starting a guild that has the opposite (though clearly wrong) opinion..

(edit: Pro-)Gun law guilds?  (edit: Pro-Choice) Abortion guilds?

See above.

[Numtini]

It's a method that insures eventually there will be needless fucking drama started

It must be really really really eventual because in all the times I've been in or known of GLBT guilds recruiting, often in public channels (where everyone else does), the ONLY drama that has EVER been created was on behalf of customer service people.

[cevik]

Some people like to play a game to get away from the bullshit they have to listen to in real life.

Wow, you've hit on the exact reason that GLBT friendly guilds are formed.  Welcome to the world, you are not the only person in it.

[Triforcer]

People came into the game recruiting groups along sexual associations -- something expressly forbidden in the EULA according to the press release I saw.  If you don't recognize the activity as political nothing I say is going to change your mind.  But, it is the very apex of political advocacy to achieve what you've described.

I haven't read this entire thread, but my understanding is that the guild was not gay-only, it was "only for people who don't act like raging fucktards towards gays" which is pretty different, and not banned by the EULA.

My understanding is different.  Having said that, exactly when does someone become identified as a gay video game toon?  There's no label on any WoW toon I've ever seen like that.

  ?

[Krakrok]

The argument... she makes the circle...

It was going in circles before you trolled in and that didn't stop you.

[Hoax]

Triforcer is on a role today or whenever it was he posted that and the Schild ownage in the SWG thread.

Sarius, we've already been down this road go read the first four pages of this stupid thread.

Just to Recap:

EXAMPLE #1:
Guild recruits in general for mature players, looking for people over the age of 21, no l33t speak, swearing or sexual commentary allowed in /g, children of guild members are allowed but otherwise no minors.

Nobody is going to take issue with this, except some l33t kiddies in general who everyone on these boards would instantly put down as fuckheads.

The guild is restricting membership based on RL criteria.
The guild is restricting what they want to deal with in /g.

EXAMPLE #2:
Guild recruits in general channel for a LGBT "friendly" guild.  No other criteria.

All of a fucking sudden they might as well have shoved their collective dicks and/or dildo's down your throat.  FORCING you to deal with their sexuality in a game, oh the fucking horror of it all.  Why are they trying to have their stupid gay parade in a video game when they know that the majority of the player base doesn't want to deal with that shit?  Why can't they just be gay and stfu about it in-game?  You know like straight people do.. oh wait, I've never been in a guild where the members didn't often discuss the relative hotness of various females in RL, where sexual comments weren't commonplace and in 50%+ of the guilds I've been in there have been people who use some if not all of the following terms:  That was gay.  Your gay.  Stop being gay. Fucking faggot dragon didn't drop any loot, and so on.

But please lets go through this all over again, I'm having so much fucking fun.

[tazelbain]

Like doing donuts in an icy parkinglot, it's fun.

[Lantyssa]

People came into the game recruiting groups along sexual associations -- something expressly forbidden in the EULA according to the press release I saw.  If you don't recognize the activity as political nothing I say is going to change your mind.  But, it is the very apex of political advocacy to achieve what you've described.

I haven't read this entire thread, but my understanding is that the guild was not gay-only, it was "only for people who don't act like raging fucktards towards gays" which is pretty different, and not banned by the EULA.

My understanding is different.  Having said that, exactly when does someone become identified as a gay video game toon?  There's no label on any WoW toon I've ever seen like that.

Here you can read the full email exchange.  Blizzard was the one ignoring the EULA they quoted back as their reasoning.  Nothing wrong was ever done by Ms. Andrews, and the higher ups agreed which is why they apologized in the ned.  (As things progress she does get ranty and by that point neither side is listening to the other.)

El Gallo's assessment is true.  The only thing that guild was trying to do was make a place where people can feel safe without having "ghey" shoved in their face every five minutes.  They had no agenda, no want for pride parades or whatever Haemish is going on about.  They just wanted people with a similar outlook to play the game with.

[cevik]

Like doing donuts in an icy parkinglot, it's fun.

Until someone loses an eye.

[MrHat]

As far as I see, this thread ends with Triforcer's post.

[cevik]

"OZ is recruiting all levels, but especially 50-60s! We are working on our Onyxia Chains and will be doing UBRS and hopefully Onyxia soon! We are not "glbt only", but we are "glbt friendly"! http://guilduniverse.com/oz"

ZOMG THE PAIN IT BURNS IT BURNS.  THE SEXUALITY IS INVADING THE VERY ESSENCE OF MY BEING!!1!  HOW CAN I EVER ESCAPE IT!!1!

[HaemishM]

They had no agenda, no want for pride parades or whatever Haemish is going on about.  They just wanted people with a similar outlook to play the game with.

And they could easily have gotten "people with a similar outlook to play the game with" in the method I described, without ever saying "GLBT" in general chat. How hard is that to understand? Let me draw a goddamn diagram of what I'm trying to illustrate.

X < - This is GLBT-friendly guild recruiting person in the middle of Ironforge (or wheverever).

I I I I I I I < - Conglomeration of potential recruits who are WoW players in Ironforge (and are potentially raving fucking idiots).

X: Recruiting for the guild INSERTGUILDNAMEHERE!

I: I would like to join INSERTGUILDNAMEHERE!

X: /tell I We are a Gay, Lesbian and Transgender friendly guild. Do you have a problem with that?

Notice nothing about the sexuality of the guild was in General Chat. Notice how no one has anything in that statement to ever get pissed off about unless they (like me) just do not like guild recruitment in general channels. Notice how gay-bashing twats have no hooks on which to bash gays. Notice how Blizzard has no reason to ban or otherwise make one movement towards this person (unless they suddenly had rules about no guild recruitment in general).

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THAT SCENARIO? WHO IS HURT BY IT? WHOSE FUCKING RIGHTS ARE ABRIDGED AND WHAT JEWS WERE GASSED IN THE MAKING THEREOF?

None, no one, fucking nothing. It's real goddamn simple.

Change the equation. Make I a raging homophobe. Fuck it, why don't you make I into Paelos, who really doesn't want to hear about gay people in general chat, since a PLAYER'S SEXUALITY HAS FUCKALL TO DO WITH THE FUCKING GAME, YOU DUMB CUNTSLAPPERS. Make X's statement be "We are a Gay, lesbian and transgender friendly guild" and yes, you do have something people can be upset about.

But hey, Blizzard was wrong, I'm fucking Himmler, and this thread is retarded.

[cevik]

X < - This is GLBT-friendly guild recruiting person in the middle of Ironforge (or wheverever).

I I I I I I I < - Conglomeration of potential recruits who are WoW players in Ironforge (and are potentially raving fucking idiots).

X: Recruiting for the guild INSERTGUILDNAMEHERE!

I: I would like to join INSERTGUILDNAMEHERE!

X: /tell I We are a Gay, Lesbian and Transgender friendly guild. Do you have a problem with that?

Yes, because the bigot will clearly response with "/r oops, sorry, my bad" and be done with it..

Suuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrreeeeee....

[HaemishM]

Better the one bigot acts up then 20 bigots in general. You can then /report said bigot for harrassment and it's a lot quieter for the other people in the game who really don't give a fuck.