SWTOR

[Rasix]

NDA narwhal is curious as to how you are coming to your conclusions.

[Lakov_Sanite]

He played the beta at pax, you may lower your guns. 

[Rasix]

Threat level lowered.  Thank you.

[Fordel]

Narwhal, jedi of the sea! 

[Lantyssa]

Does that make killer whales the Sith?

[Tannhauser]

Lawl

Nerf narwhals.

[Surlyboi]

Overpowered sonsabitches

[Merusk]

A 0-cost ability that you spam for baseline DPS   IS Autoattack.. only it fucks over those guys from high-ping areas.

Concern warranted.

The frothing to "get rid of autoattack" does nothing if you still have an ability that would otherwise not be there.

Or do you really think  12345123121211111111211111111114111111111111115* is better than "Fuckit make resources regen faster and put auto attack in"


* Yes it might not be that many push-butans-while-u-regen but the idea remains the same.

[Ingmar]

Really, it depends if it ever just gets pushed out of the rotation enirely, as happened in CoH. Nobody is brawling at level 20, let alone level 50. I do not like the way that stuff worked in what I played of RIFT, so I hope it isn't like that.

[Threash]

Rift has autoattack.

[Ingmar]

It certainly has 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 with the starting attacks you get in the various specs, that is what I didn't like.

[Margalis]

Pressing 1 to initiate a standard attack when you have time between other stuff in the end isn't really functionally different from it going off itself.

There are ways to make it different - if the game relies on positioning and movement and the standard attack roots you in place, if it uses resources, etc. For example in FFXIV (make yer jokes!) the standard attack used stamina, which was also used for other attacks, so there was a legitimate reason not to use it.

I think in a lot of cases though there is a sort of acknowledgement that auto-attacking isn't that exciting but the solution is to just make auto-attacking more convoluted and obfuscated rather than actually changing the battle system more fundamentally. It's a surface-level fix.

Personally I don't have much preference between pressing 111111 and having the game press it for me. Not a significant pro or con to me.

[Lantyssa]

After you build your macros it has 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 again, too.

[Evildrider]

I would rather they went the DDO route and just made your base attack left mouse click. 

[Fordel]

No fuck that. Fucking click spam.

[Sjofn]

That's not how it works now, Fordel. Now saying I'd like that, but if you don't feel like clickclickclicking, there's no need to do it in DDO.

[Evildrider]

That's not how it works now, Fordel. Now saying I'd like that, but if you don't feel like clickclickclicking, there's no need to do it in DDO.

You can just hold down the mouse button and it cycles now right?  I haven't played since it went F2P.

[Sky]

I'd rather not button mash at all.

[Draegan]

I'd rather not button mash at all.

If you like EQ2 combat you'll do just fine in SWTOR.

[Sjofn]

That's not how it works now, Fordel. Now saying I'd like that, but if you don't feel like clickclickclicking, there's no need to do it in DDO.

You can just hold down the mouse button and it cycles now right?  I haven't played since it went F2P.

Ayep. You can also assign a hotkey to turn autoattack on if you prefer.

[Sky]

If you like EQ2 combat you'll do just fine in SWTOR.

You might remember certain lobbying for the EQ2 1-ahead queue in Rift, which I still feel is poorly implemented to the point of not being worth it. Does TOR queue one ahead, and if so, is it actually viable ala EQ2 or too short to be worth bothering, ala Rift?

Might actually be my only combat complaint about Rift. Mash-o-riffic.

[eldaec]

1 ahead works the same way in CoX too. I always just assumed that is how things would work, but then I remember it is another innovation wiped from history because WoW doesn't have it...

[Sky]

Derp, my bad. I didn't realize default was 'short' in Rift. Setting to 'full' is the EQ2 way, and awesome!

Soo....is it like EQ2/Rift? 

[koro]

No.

[Ingmar]

I don't understand the love for the one-ahead queue, to be honest.

[koro]

It works for some games, especially those where you have a small amount of abilities or your abilities have very long activation times (hi, CoH), but if you've got three hotbars full of skills that you actually use multiple times per fight, usually in reaction to things like procs and changing situations in the fight, a skill queue (especially with a long GCD) tends to be more cumbersome than anything.

Edit: I actually hated the skill queue system in LOTRO, especially on my Captain. I've lost track of the amount of times I've queued up the wrong thing, or queued an ability in reaction to one thing, only to have something else happen and whoops, I've committed my one queued thing and now I can't undo it.

[Evildrider]

I don't understand the love for the one-ahead queue, to be honest.

Aren't you just mashing buttons still, but one action ahead of what your character is doing?

[Cyrrex]

Edit: I actually hated the skill queue system in LOTRO, especially on my Captain. I've lost track of the amount of times I've queued up the wrong thing, or queued an ability in reaction to one thing, only to have something else happen and whoops, I've committed my one queued thing and now I can't undo it.

Maybe I am mis-remembering, but it seems to me that when you made that mistake in LOTRO, you just had to fire off the ability you meant to fire off before the wrong one fires off...in other words, it remembers the last command you input, not the first.  Am I wrong?

I think we should bring back the SWG queue.  Where you could fire off 140 commands and then go take a dump.

[koro]

Edit: I actually hated the skill queue system in LOTRO, especially on my Captain. I've lost track of the amount of times I've queued up the wrong thing, or queued an ability in reaction to one thing, only to have something else happen and whoops, I've committed my one queued thing and now I can't undo it.

Maybe I am mis-remembering, but it seems to me that when you made that mistake in LOTRO, you just had to fire off the ability you meant to fire off before the wrong one fires off...in other words, it remembers the last command you input, not the first.  Am I wrong?

I think we should bring back the SWG queue.  Where you could fire off 140 commands and then go take a dump.

The way I remember it was, you hit your first ability then queued up the second. After that if you hit anything else you were screwed.

Maybe I'm misremembering it and confusing it with the DAoC system, which was also awful.

[eldaec]

Daoc let you queue the next action only, clicking on something else replaced your queued next action. Exactly like CoX, EQ2, and others.

[Shatter]

Could you que your own rezz?  :P

[caladein]

The problem with LotRO's queue was that the interface was just generally unresponsive.  It felt really slow in responding to button presses and even slower in reacting to procs or abilities coming off CD.

But I don't like queueing much, even what WoW's doing now kind of drives me up the wall at times (although I'm sure it's actually helping me cast a lot smoother the rest of the time).

[Merusk]

I don't understand the love for the one-ahead queue, to be honest.

Aren't you just mashing buttons still, but one action ahead of what your character is doing?

Yes.  I will agree, though, that it works better in systems where actions fire after the cooldown/ animation completes, like EQ2 & CoX than it does in WoW where actions happen on the button press and then you get a cooldown. 

You should have different number balancing and combat feel to make them work in a way that feels satisfying.

[Draegan]

TOR doesn't have queuing as far as I know.  I didn't look through the menu systems at PAX.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Queue systems while good on paper, always feel sluggish when I'm in the game playing them.  Having to frantically mash an autoattack key is no fun either but with queue systems it really breaks that immersive feeling.